Are Thai bank accounts safe (put my mind at ease)

[finy]

I recently switched my BB card to a chip and pin one because they're obviously a lot safer, but I'm more worried about how much I should keep in my account in general.

Probably because I've heard horror stories of bank employees looting accounts, etc.

I tested withdrawing some money recently and they did ask for my passport which I was happy with, but would you keep £1000-5000 in a Thai bank account or would you not risk it?

[bkkjames]

yes.

[larsjohnsson]

I have done it for about 20 years

[thepool]

These story's about "unsafe" Thai banks are urban myths perpetuated by twisted expats.

Give the card and the pin to some girl from a bar and don't be surprised if the account is emptied !

Remember to keep the PIN safe ! Which is exactly what the "unsafe" Western banks also advise !

[Morakot]

I recently switched my BB card to a chip and pin one

What kind of card is this? Your regular debit card?

[finy]

I think it was a Be First switched to a Be First Smart (with chip)

You can only use them with BB cash machines, but they're a hundred times harder to swipe pin.

[Morakot]

I think it was a Be First switched to a Be First Smart (with chip)

You can only use them with BB cash machines, but they're a hundred times harder to swipe pin.

Thanks for this!

Actually what happens when you use this card for purchasing goods? Are you prompted to enter your pin in the terminal or do you just sign the slip, like one does with the Be1st Card?

[Pib]

Sure it's safe as long as you practice safe banking, such as keeping your PIN/password to yourself, etc....same for any country. If you have concerns about having too much in an account which has ATM/debit card access which might get scammed somehow (like copying your card, loosing your card & the bad guys somehow get your PIN, etc) you might want to open two bank accounts. Get one bank account with "no ATM/Debit card" and the other account "with ATM/debit card." Keep the bulk of you funds in the account with no ATM/debit card access which requires you to show up personally or use your ibanking to transfer funds from the no ATM/debit account to the account with ATM/debit as you will periodically need to replenish your ATM/debit account.

Now when it comes to keeping really BIG money in any Thai account and possibly worried about bank failure, we'll you'll just have to make your own decision about will the current govt coverage program actually be able to reimburse customers who lose their money in a financial crisis/bank failure. Current deposit protection thru 10 Aug 15 is Bt50M, then 11 Aug 15 thru 10 Aug 16 Bt25M, then 11 Aug 16-Onwards is Bt1M. See this Thai govt Link for more info. Once again, could/would the Thai govt actually be able to stand behind the their Deposit Protection Program is your decision to make.

[Pib]

I think it was a Be First switched to a Be First Smart (with chip)

You can only use them with BB cash machines, but they're a hundred times harder to swipe pin.

Thanks for this!

Actually what happens when you use this card for purchasing goods? Are you prompted to enter your pin in the terminal or do you just sign the slip, like one does with the Be1st Card?

You just sign. And when it come to checking/comparing signature on the card to your ID that basically don't happen in Thailand. Over a half dozen years I can count on a couple of fingers the number of times a checkout clerk has asked to see ID to compare it to the debit/credit card....and I use my debit/credit cards almost daily. This means any bad guy can use the card with little to no fear of the checkout clerk challenging them. So, if you lose your card contact your bank triple ASAP because you are basically on the hook for any charges up until 5 minutes after you contact the bank and they confirm card cancellation. Consumer protection in Thailand (which is weak) may not live up to your expectations based on your home country consumer protection experience.

[Morakot]

I think it was a Be First switched to a Be First Smart (with chip)

You can only use them with BB cash machines, but they're a hundred times harder to swipe pin.

Thanks for this!

Actually what happens when you use this card for purchasing goods? Are you prompted to enter your pin in the terminal or do you just sign the slip, like one does with the Be1st Card?

You just sign. And when it come to checking/comparing signature on the card to your ID that basically don't happen in Thailand. Over a half dozen years I can count on a couple of fingers the number of times a checkout clerk has asked to see ID to compare it to the debit/credit card....and I use my debit/credit cards almost daily. This means any bad guy can use the card with little to no fear of the checkout clerk challenging them. So, if you lose your card contact your bank triple ASAP because you are basically on the hook for any charges up until 5 minutes after you contact the bank and they confirm card cancellation. Consumer protection in Thailand (which is weak) may not live up to your expectations based on your home country consumer protection experience.

Thanks for confirming this. So what is the point of this "chip and pin" than?

[Pib]

Less likelihood of the card being skimmed/copied...much harder for a chip compared to a magnetic stripe...that's about it for Thailand....but outside of Thailand where PIN transactions are commonly used then I guess you would need to enter your PIN. Even for the chipped-cards like the Be1st Smart Card, the Thai store clerk sticks it into the Point of Sale transaction machine and then a receipt is printed out for your signature. Also keep in mind the Be1st Smart Card can only be used in Bangkok Bank ATMs to withdraw funds as other Thai ATMs have not converted yet and don't appear to be in any rush regardless of what an occasional govt/BOT press release might suggest.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Pib

[fletchsmile]

I consider them reasonably safe - bearing in mind nothing is risk free

There's a good chance the deposit protection amounts will get extended further in terms of dates. A bit of recent history behind that was that Thailand was trying to move from fully guaranteed by the government to a cap on deposit protection like in the west. Then along came the global financial crisis and US, Europe, UK all had to hike their deposit guarantees because of the dire shape their banking systems were in. So ironically just as Thailand was able to reduce the west messed up and had to increase their protection. Hence Thailand didn't want to be reducing amounts while the west was hiking and worrying.

Back in 2008/9 I was very comfortable with my money in a Thai bank compared to the sh*t hitting the fan in the west. Thai banks were reasonably well insulated from the problems in the west. Not to say it wouldn't have caused ripples, but the risk of systemic collapse the west was facing looked much less an issue here. On the whole the Thai system was well capitalised with sufficient liquidity, and came thru unscathed. No way you could say the same for US, Europe and UK.

For the comment above about really big money in a Thai bank account, I'd delete the word Thai. You have to think about this for any bank account anywhere. What would happen for example if the US loses its status as having the world's main reserve currency and can't print their way out? We've seen Detroit fail, we've seen US big banks fail. Tens of US banks fail every year as a matter of course (hundreds during the crisis) and the government for now ensures depositors are OK. Given the massive US debt mountains you have to ask what if....

Cheers

Fletch

[JimGant]

Thanks for confirming this. So what is the point of this "chip and pin" than?

Per other threads, advisable procedure with a Thai debit/ATM card is to zero out available balance for POS transactions, since this is the greater danger of getting ripped off, as no pin required and usually no verification of signature (and the Be1st smart card uses only the magnetic strip for POS transactions, at least for now). Thus, you're left with essentially an ATM card only. And, with the chip model, you're virtually guaranteed against fraud at the ATM machine (and against fraud for POS transactions, when you zero out available balance).

A credit card is recommended for POS transactions, since fraudulent use will not clean out your account -- and transaction reversal is straightforward (at least with US issued cards -- not sure how easy with a Thai credit card). And, rewards are more robust with credit cards vice debit cards (again, using US cards as examples).

[SheungWan]

1000-5000 pounds is hardly an amount to worry about.

[thrilled]

I wouldn't doubt maybe safer than US banks.They have insurance also I believe.With US banks,they are FDIC insured.

But the amount in the FDIC account is so small compared to all the money in the banks.If there would ever be A big problem,the US would end up giving you pennies on the dollar,if that.

[finy]

I think it was a Be First switched to a Be First Smart (with chip)

You can only use them with BB cash machines, but they're a hundred times harder to swipe pin.

Thanks for this!

Actually what happens when you use this card for purchasing goods? Are you prompted to enter your pin in the terminal or do you just sign the slip, like one does with the Be1st Card?

I've actually cancelled that so I have no idea what the answer would be.

I just think it's safer with only the cash machine withdrawl function.

When I say cancelled I mean I've set up my card so it can't be used online/in stores because I've never had the need to do it before. There always seems to be a cash machine around and for bigger purchases I'd use my UK card.

Edited March 24, 2014 by finy

[MAJIC]

Oh come on now "would you trust 1,000-5000 baht in a Thai Bank account!"

Yes of course,in 7 years in Thailand,I never had a cause to inquire what has happened to my account! ? most certainly safe,except for the obvious

extreme potential, breakdown of the system such as now,.......be warned !

[larsjohnsson]

Oh come on now "would you trust 1,000-5000 baht in a Thai Bank account!"

Yes of course,in 7 years in Thailand,I never had a cause to inquire what has happened to my account! ? most certainly safe,except for the obvious

extreme potential, breakdown of the system such as now,.......be warned !

I agree that it's safe. But he didn't ask about 1000-5000 baht. With that small amount I don't belive anyone would ask

[finy]

I'm not sure where the quote came from ha

[Morakot]

When I say cancelled I mean I've set up my card so it can't be used online/in stores because I've never had the need to do it before. There always seems to be a cash machine around and for bigger purchases I'd use my UK card.

How does one cancel that function? Can this be done at an ATM?

[finy]

When I say cancelled I mean I've set up my card so it can't be used online/in stores because I've never had the need to do it before. There always seems to be a cash machine around and for bigger purchases I'd use my UK card.

How does one cancel that function? Can this be done at an ATM?

Just walk into a BB branch and speak to the people who set up accounts rather than the tellers.

There is always two ticket options on the machine.

When you sit down at the desk just tell the person you want to block every way to use the card apart from ATM withdrawls.

Then nobody will be able to do anything should you lose your card (unless they know your pin number)

[KhunBENQ]

but would you keep £1000-5000 in a Thai bank account or would you not risk it?

Made me smile.

5000, have the equivalent of more than 10 times this sum in two Thai banks for years and still sleep well.

The real concern (just discussed in another thread) is the future of the Baht (exchange rate).

Lets hope civil war stays away.

[finy]

Made me smile.

The fact you said this also makes me smile haha

I'm now a lot more confident about keeping money in a Thai bank.

[hcvc]

finy -

If you have the need to keep a substantial amount in a Thai bank – you may wish to open two accounts. One account to keep the majority of your money for safe keeping. One account with a lesser balance to use to access funds via internet banking (good for bill pay) or an ATM/Debit card for your daily transactions. ATM machines are versatile. Can transfer funds to other accounts (even accounts at other banking institutions) – as well as make withdrawls.

I use seasoned money in my bank account to meet immigration requirements for annual extensions. Am prepared to show immigration officers other bank account (passbook) attached to an ATM/Debit card should they question how I access funds in Thailand. Never been asked.

If you do not have an internet account or ATM/Debit card you can not easily access your account balance. An ATM or Debit card number is needed to check your account balance by the automated phone system. Exception is Kasikorn Bank which will issue you a PIN number to check your account balance by phone.

Many Thai banks offer SIM messaging notification for account activity. Worth the few baht per month service charge.

Safest means to access your funds is to do a counter withdrawal or use an ATM machine within a bank branch. ATM machines within a bank are less likely to be tampered with (skimmers) and if there is an issue – like the machine swallows your card - you are more apt to get your card back. With a counter withdrawal less worry over a malfunctioning ATM machine making a phantom transaction (double charge your account).

Always best to check for errors. Easier to dispute and correct a problem when it occurs. TIT (This is Thailand) and mistakes will happen.

[finy]

I'll keep most of my funds in UK, but I just feel a little safer now knowing if I go into the thousands of pounds they won't disappear.

[CaptHaddock]

This is a highly selective history. Bank deposit insurance in Thailand was unknown prior to the 1997 financial crisis in which all the Thai major banks were essentially bankrupt because they had debt obligations in dollars and yen that they could not pay after the overvalued Thai baht had collapsed. Thai banks do not face this same threat currently because the Bank of Thailand has substantial dollar reserves. But financial crises of various types commonly occur and recur in developing economies after periods of high growth, e.g. Mexico, Argentina, Korea, etc. For that reason and because 1997 is not that long ago I would hesitate to characterize the Thai banking system as more stable than that of first world countries like the US. Thai bankers have been susceptible to the same enthusiasm for wild risks in the past as those in other countries.

When a financial crisis threatens an entire banking system the government essentially has to step in and guarantee deposits lest a run on the banks causes a collapse of banking and the economy. The British did it with Northern Trust; the US Fed did it with non-banks like Goldman and AIG (Insurance) just like the Thais in 1997. However, the plan in Thailand was always to withdraw deposit insurance once the crisis had passed. The government has hesitated to do so thus far, but the basic attitude of caveat emptor that prevails in Thailand towards consumers has not disappeared. The big banks will continue to apply pressure to reduce deposit guarantees because they don't want to bear the cost.

Keep in mind that another systemic banking failure (in which the Bank of Thailand will once again step in to guarantee deposits whatever the existing guarantee at the time) is not the only risk a depositor faces. Individual banks can and do fail. This could happen to a Thai bank.

I consider them reasonably safe - bearing in mind nothing is risk free

There's a good chance the deposit protection amounts will get extended further in terms of dates. A bit of recent history behind that was that Thailand was trying to move from fully guaranteed by the government to a cap on deposit protection like in the west. Then along came the global financial crisis and US, Europe, UK all had to hike their deposit guarantees because of the dire shape their banking systems were in. So ironically just as Thailand was able to reduce the west messed up and had to increase their protection. Hence Thailand didn't want to be reducing amounts while the west was hiking and worrying.

Back in 2008/9 I was very comfortable with my money in a Thai bank compared to the sh*t hitting the fan in the west. Thai banks were reasonably well insulated from the problems in the west. Not to say it wouldn't have caused ripples, but the risk of systemic collapse the west was facing looked much less an issue here. On the whole the Thai system was well capitalised with sufficient liquidity, and came thru unscathed. No way you could say the same for US, Europe and UK.

For the comment above about really big money in a Thai bank account, I'd delete the word Thai. You have to think about this for any bank account anywhere. What would happen for example if the US loses its status as having the world's main reserve currency and can't print their way out? We've seen Detroit fail, we've seen US big banks fail. Tens of US banks fail every year as a matter of course (hundreds during the crisis) and the government for now ensures depositors are OK. Given the massive US debt mountains you have to ask what if....

Cheers

Fletch

[anon11]

You don't want your mind at ease you want your wallet at ease ....yes their sfe bank accounts all over the world get hacked people lose money GET over it it's life

[fletchsmile]

This is a highly selective history. Bank deposit insurance in Thailand was unknown prior to the 1997 financial crisis in which all the Thai major banks were essentially bankrupt because they had debt obligations in dollars and yen that they could not pay after the overvalued Thai baht had collapsed. Thai banks do not face this same threat currently because the Bank of Thailand has substantial dollar reserves. But financial crises of various types commonly occur and recur in developing economies after periods of high growth, e.g. Mexico, Argentina, Korea, etc. For that reason and because 1997 is not that long ago I would hesitate to characterize the Thai banking system as more stable than that of first world countries like the US. Thai bankers have been susceptible to the same enthusiasm for wild risks in the past as those in other countries.

When a financial crisis threatens an entire banking system the government essentially has to step in and guarantee deposits lest a run on the banks causes a collapse of banking and the economy. The British did it with Northern Trust; the US Fed did it with non-banks like Goldman and AIG (Insurance) just like the Thais in 1997. However, the plan in Thailand was always to withdraw deposit insurance once the crisis had passed. The government has hesitated to do so thus far, but the basic attitude of caveat emptor that prevails in Thailand towards consumers has not disappeared. The big banks will continue to apply pressure to reduce deposit guarantees because they don't want to bear the cost.

Keep in mind that another systemic banking failure (in which the Bank of Thailand will once again step in to guarantee deposits whatever the existing guarantee at the time) is not the only risk a depositor faces. Individual banks can and do fail. This could happen to a Thai bank.

I consider them reasonably safe - bearing in mind nothing is risk free

There's a good chance the deposit protection amounts will get extended further in terms of dates. A bit of recent history behind that was that Thailand was trying to move from fully guaranteed by the government to a cap on deposit protection like in the west. Then along came the global financial crisis and US, Europe, UK all had to hike their deposit guarantees because of the dire shape their banking systems were in. So ironically just as Thailand was able to reduce the west messed up and had to increase their protection. Hence Thailand didn't want to be reducing amounts while the west was hiking and worrying.

Back in 2008/9 I was very comfortable with my money in a Thai bank compared to the sh*t hitting the fan in the west. Thai banks were reasonably well insulated from the problems in the west. Not to say it wouldn't have caused ripples, but the risk of systemic collapse the west was facing looked much less an issue here. On the whole the Thai system was well capitalised with sufficient liquidity, and came thru unscathed. No way you could say the same for US, Europe and UK.

For the comment above about really big money in a Thai bank account, I'd delete the word Thai. You have to think about this for any bank account anywhere. What would happen for example if the US loses its status as having the world's main reserve currency and can't print their way out? We've seen Detroit fail, we've seen US big banks fail. Tens of US banks fail every year as a matter of course (hundreds during the crisis) and the government for now ensures depositors are OK. Given the massive US debt mountains you have to ask what if....

Cheers

Fletch

Yes, as I stated the plan was for the Thais to gradually withdraw the blanket government guarantee on deposits. This was delayed because of the financial crisis in the west, and is the key reason it is still being postponed today.

The US, Europe and UK banks have still not fully emerged from their crisis. 5 years or so later and large systemic risks remain, particularly if the US government were to lose its printing press.

In contrast, as for Thailand. Let's just say I was around in 1997 and first hand experience of the Thai banking industry in the aftermath of 1997, during the GFC and now. Thai banks are a world apart today from where they were in 1997. They learnt well from their crisis, and the reasons why extend far beyond simply the central banks foreign reserves, including liquidity and capital adequacy metrics.

Any comparison to 1997 and hint as to 1997 recurring is pretty meaningless. There really is no comparison, except to contrast the differences of the Thai banking system nearly 2 decades ago to now.

I wouldn't like to subjectively comment which is "better" or "more stable", as the risks are different, but I definitely see the US system has some significant risks, and I could see how those risks might crystallise. Hence keeping money in Thailand is a great diversification from the problems of the west.

Cheers

Fletch

[Gulfsailor]

I walked into my bank today to make a significant cash withdrawal. Handed over my bank book and scribbled a signature on a piece of paper, and walked out with a stack of money.

Not any ID requested, nor did I recognise any of the staff faces, hence they couldn't have known me. Also no ATM card requested. Heck, even my signature was scribbled quickly and hardly looks like the one they have on file since about a decade ago when I opened the account.

Conclusion: scary, and will have a chat with a bank manager at a later point.

[SheungWan]

I walked into my bank today to make a significant cash withdrawal. Handed over my bank book and scribbled a signature on a piece of paper, and walked out with a stack of money.

Not any ID requested, nor did I recognise any of the staff faces, hence they couldn't have known me. Also no ATM card requested. Heck, even my signature was scribbled quickly and hardly looks like the one they have on file since about a decade ago when I opened the account.

Conclusion: scary, and will have a chat with a bank manager at a later point.

That would certainly concern me if they did not request any ID in the form of a passport. I would take your experience as a firm signal to change bank or bank branch. You will get no joy from a word with the manager.