What has Thailand become?

[CIHUAHUA]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

Keep your bag packed, Passport and plane ticket in your pocket, never leave the airport concourse, don't have a life. Yep I love Thailand!!!

JLCrab didn't say that, Sigurris.

And you know he didn't say that.

So, which one (or ones) of the nasty little existential traps he enumerated are you making the best of, then, eh ?

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

Yeah, thats what I thought too, that JLCrab did not say that but JLCrab only mentioned the don'ts. JLCrab has generated many peoples comments and after thinking about it - JLCrab could do that anywhere - It makes me not want to mind my own business and ask questions like, Has he ever done any of his "I don'ts" and if JLCrab does not hang around much with English speaking people then why has it been so important to have over 2000 posts on T.Visa? JLCrab has one of those stars cuz so many people liked his post and I pushed the check mark as well. His post makes me want to know more about him maybe I'm just "befuggedabowdit. . ."

[JLCrab]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

So what is it that makes Thailand so attractive to you?

In the words of 2008 US Republican Presidential Candidate John McCain when asked how many houses did he own:

I don't know -- I'll have to check with my staff and get back to you.

[Goat Roper]

It is just you. Remember Black May? Thailand was just as screwy and corrupt 20 years ago - there was coup after coup and Thai citizens were attacked by the government. However, I loved the place then and I love it now, even if there are plenty of bad apples. There always has been.

Been living here for many years and with all the bad you mention is mostly true IMO, But I have never seen or heard of a Buddhist Monk being beaten, To me this takes things to a whole other level and it is no good.

[desdeash]

If you want to see protesters shutting things down without consequences (to them) check out the news from Canada.

[transam]

It is just you. Remember Black May? Thailand was just as screwy and corrupt 20 years ago - there was coup after coup and Thai citizens were attacked by the government. However, I loved the place then and I love it now, even if there are plenty of bad apples. There always has been.

Been living here for many years and with all the bad you mention is mostly true IMO, But I have never seen or heard of a Buddhist Monk being beaten, To me this takes things to a whole other level and it is no good.

There will be folk out there that will remember the guys face for sure.......

[Daniel Boon]

'desdeash', be prepared for a reprimand from 'thailiketoo' (for being off topic)

[nottocus]

its the getting rebuffed from the pretty non-working thai girls that burns the ego

Why would you want a non-working Thai girl?

Find one that is working. Two incomes are better than one.

[kevin2852]

I too first visited Thailand 25 years ago, and it may just be my imagination, but I saw a people who were actually quite happy. Sure, there were always stories about businessmen with 3 families in 3 different cities and these was a lot of real poverty, a little better hidden than in most places, but it was there. The police always did their best to help, even if there was a kickback but now, I see an alarming rise in suicides, I hear every day about new road accidents and unreported deaths, burglaries, Temple robberies, Monks getting attacked and not to mention the endless stresses because of Politics. The land of smiles has become Paranoid and even I, seeing a smile, am trying to put my back against the wall. This is the modern world though and we are seeing it as observers. Thailand still has a lot of good and it may be that it will find itself again, but it will need help to do that and the world is only interested in bringing the Thais into line with modern day New York or London, without worrying about the 700 years that it took us to reach this stage. This is a young country in our terms. We truly need help them to ease the pressure somehow and just let it join or not with the world at it's own pace. I for one blame their governments.

[arminbkk]

Isn't this how things developed in the West?

Thailand is evolving.

And with the 'good' comes the 'bad'.

Soon we will also have fights here between supporters at football/soccer matches, we will have groups of youths lotiering at

shopping mall entrances harrassing shoppers for no other reason than boredom, gay bashing, (more) open racism and discrimination,

there will be political agendas saying that Thailand is "full" and needs tighter immigration policy.

The poor will get more outspoken and aggressive and express how they feel deprived, they will no longer accept their submissive fate (the 'nong'/'pi' thing).

The Buddhist faith will decline (as with religious faiths in the West) and just be a subject in school one is forced to sit through.

Monks will just be regarded as any other person, less restraint to beat up.

Thailand is behind in development compared to the West, hence it is a developing country.

And is developing, but faster than the West did due to the modern state of the world (telecommunications, social media etc).

Who knows, someday Thailand might be just as UK or US, or a European country......but just hotter.

[transam]

I too first visited Thailand 25 years ago, and it may just be my imagination, but I saw a people who were actually quite happy. Sure, there were always stories about businessmen with 3 families in 3 different cities and these was a lot of real poverty, a little better hidden than in most places, but it was there. The police always did their best to help, even if there was a kickback but now, I see an alarming rise in suicides, I hear every day about new road accidents and unreported deaths, burglaries, Temple robberies, Monks getting attacked and not to mention the endless stresses because of Politics. The land of smiles has become Paranoid and even I, seeing a smile, am trying to put my back against the wall. This is the modern world though and we are seeing it as observers. Thailand still has a lot of good and it may be that it will find itself again, but it will need help to do that and the world is only interested in bringing the Thais into line with modern day New York or London, without worrying about the 700 years that it took us to reach this stage. This is a young country in our terms. We truly need help them to ease the pressure somehow and just let it join or not with the world at it's own pace. I for one blame their governments.

I blame the instilled corruption mindset. If another country tried to help out, some folk will become better off...........

[Razer64]

I'm anti-theist and anarchist. So, I have to say, I like what's happening. People are waking up and calling religion and government out for exactly what it is: fraud and force.

[thailiketoo]

I too first visited Thailand 25 years ago, and it may just be my imagination, but I saw a people who were actually quite happy. Sure, there were always stories about businessmen with 3 families in 3 different cities and these was a lot of real poverty, a little better hidden than in most places, but it was there. The police always did their best to help, even if there was a kickback but now, I see an alarming rise in suicides, I hear every day about new road accidents and unreported deaths, burglaries, Temple robberies, Monks getting attacked and not to mention the endless stresses because of Politics. The land of smiles has become Paranoid and even I, seeing a smile, am trying to put my back against the wall. This is the modern world though and we are seeing it as observers. Thailand still has a lot of good and it may be that it will find itself again, but it will need help to do that and the world is only interested in bringing the Thais into line with modern day New York or London, without worrying about the 700 years that it took us to reach this stage. This is a young country in our terms. We truly need help them to ease the pressure somehow and just let it join or not with the world at it's own pace. I for one blame their governments.

I blame the instilled corruption mindset. If another country tried to help out, some folk will become better off...........

What is instilled corruption as opposed to just plain old corruption?

[transam]

I too first visited Thailand 25 years ago, and it may just be my imagination, but I saw a people who were actually quite happy. Sure, there were always stories about businessmen with 3 families in 3 different cities and these was a lot of real poverty, a little better hidden than in most places, but it was there. The police always did their best to help, even if there was a kickback but now, I see an alarming rise in suicides, I hear every day about new road accidents and unreported deaths, burglaries, Temple robberies, Monks getting attacked and not to mention the endless stresses because of Politics. The land of smiles has become Paranoid and even I, seeing a smile, am trying to put my back against the wall. This is the modern world though and we are seeing it as observers. Thailand still has a lot of good and it may be that it will find itself again, but it will need help to do that and the world is only interested in bringing the Thais into line with modern day New York or London, without worrying about the 700 years that it took us to reach this stage. This is a young country in our terms. We truly need help them to ease the pressure somehow and just let it join or not with the world at it's own pace. I for one blame their governments.

I blame the instilled corruption mindset. If another country tried to help out, some folk will become better off...........

What is instilled corruption as opposed to just plain old corruption?

Because in LOS, from the beggar to the Hi-So, corruption is accepted as the norm.

[thailiketoo]

I too first visited Thailand 25 years ago, and it may just be my imagination, but I saw a people who were actually quite happy. Sure, there were always stories about businessmen with 3 families in 3 different cities and these was a lot of real poverty, a little better hidden than in most places, but it was there. The police always did their best to help, even if there was a kickback but now, I see an alarming rise in suicides, I hear every day about new road accidents and unreported deaths, burglaries, Temple robberies, Monks getting attacked and not to mention the endless stresses because of Politics. The land of smiles has become Paranoid and even I, seeing a smile, am trying to put my back against the wall. This is the modern world though and we are seeing it as observers. Thailand still has a lot of good and it may be that it will find itself again, but it will need help to do that and the world is only interested in bringing the Thais into line with modern day New York or London, without worrying about the 700 years that it took us to reach this stage. This is a young country in our terms. We truly need help them to ease the pressure somehow and just let it join or not with the world at it's own pace. I for one blame their governments.

I blame the instilled corruption mindset. If another country tried to help out, some folk will become better off...........

What is instilled corruption as opposed to just plain old corruption?

Because in LOS, from the beggar to the Hi-So, corruption is accepted as the norm.

You mean like the, "Victor Dahdaleh" trial?

[Skeetjones]

See what has happened in Thailand is that once a pure and loving country has been over run by foreigners, who constantly degrade and be little Thailand's people of original origin.

Thus leading to emotional turmoil in the LOS. The young men now realize that they are no match for a foreigner check book thus creating hostile angry new generations of people. This later spills into the politics, all the way to the soup stands.

I'm so sorry for my mothers home land.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Somsrisonphimai]

Thailand is becoming what it deep down has always been.

Can you explain because I don't understand what are you saying?

[Skeetjones]

Thailand is becoming what it deep down has always been.

Can you explain because I don't understand what are you saying?

The most luxurious SEA country.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Somsrisonphimai]

Although with all the change is being displayed in front of your eyes, Thailand is still the best place for you, and you will tolerate and adapt to the change living the life in Thailand. I am sure of it.

[NoshowJones]

I think everything starts in the schools, after the students finish Mattayom 6, no one fails the final exams, I had some students in Mattayom 4 who handed me blank papers in the end of term exams, all boys I might add. A lot of them just did not want to be there, forced to do so by their parents to get them out of the house..

The students leave school having graduated when they should not have, they get some more education in colleges and the parents pay for them to graduate, then they are working in banks, offices etc and are not qualified for what they are supposed to do. That is why you have so much problems in shops, banks and offices.

But if us Farangs would only admit it, we are benefiting from this corruption in many ways, ie paying off the BiB for traffic offences, and that is just the start. So there is no point in us being so hypocritical about corruption here in Thailand.

Get real. How many go all the way to Mattayom 6? What percent? When I taught I had 4 or 5 every term that were repeating a grade and that was in a public school. The impact of the fake degrees is far less than you imagine. If you taught for a while you would realize this.

The school I taught in had about 4000 students, and to my knowledge none were repeating any grades. Don't start telling me to get real, if you want to answer my posts, be a bit more sociable or do not answer at all.

This is Thailand, just like banks, immigration offices etc, schools all have their own rules. Some will do this and some will do that. Give a Thai a uniform, or some authority, and they love it.

[transam]

Although with all the change is being displayed in front of your eyes, Thailand is still the best place for you, and you will tolerate and adapt to the change living the life in Thailand. I am sure of it.

I will never get used to the corruption at ever corner of ordinary Thai folks life. It is very sad .

[Wan123]

_{I believe that Thailand has become victimized by images of lollipops and sugarcanes in NeverNeverland, victim to the siren call of democracies, beckoning as did the ancient sirens to the Greek mythological figures, calling them to abandon their core beliefs and swim to the promises of unlimited prosperity. The truth is somewhere hidden from the view of everyone: politicians, businessmen and the general public; that these dreams are dreams projected on your society by governments with political motivations, who use trade and free markets as a political tool. Yet while so much is know, it becomes even more disconcerting to see such a society as Thailand attempt to imitate, inaccurately, democratic institutions and beliefs which took hundreds of years to develop and refine. It wasn't just the laws--it was an acquiescent people, it was an age of industrialization, it was the call for wider civil rights and social welfare which finally resulted in an economy with little future in the way of expansion.}

_{Likewise, it is the overburdening of the state and the expectations of a people, already deluded by the siren calls of democracies around the world, to adopt a form of government which sounds like a panacea for all social ills, but actually is in the process of delivering a knock-out blow to the entire country in a way that few enemies could, by creating a consumption oriented economy rather than a savings oriented economy. In this environment, what is the future of Buddhism? There is no future for Buddhism because the THai people ultimately reject}

_{non-materialism and the respect for people that the Buddhist customs engendered.}

_{It is very dangerous for the THai people to stray past their core belief systems; they are not easily replaced in a day or a week or a year or 20 years--ultimately there will be a huge price to pay as farmers abandon their land in desperation and greed, looking for a wealth which only people in the cities enjoy. And in the end they will have neither farm not wealth, but become, inexorably, the "urban prolectariat".}

[Somsrisonphimai]

See what has happened in Thailand is that once a pure and loving country has been over run by foreigners, who constantly degrade and be little Thailand's people of original origin.

Thus leading to emotional turmoil in the LOS. The young men now realize that they are no match for a foreigner check book thus creating hostile angry new generations of people. This later spills into the politics, all the way to the soup stands.

I'm so sorry for my mothers home land.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I don't think it's fair to blame foreigners for all thing that is wrong with Thailand though. Thais should take ownership in it too. You need to also look at the benefit of foreigners have brought to Thailand such as give those young girls a better life.

[CharlieH]

What has Thailand become ? The answer is quite simple for me, it has become "Home".

It has its problems, what country doesnt, but it is now my home, its quiet, peaceful, less stress, beautiful weather and generally for me a better place to be, a better quality of life for sure.

One of the most endearing qualities of this nation is its variation, what you know and experience as life in Pattaya, will be worlds apart from those in Chiang Mai, Udon Thani to Nakorn nowhere. Everywhere is different, but everywhere there is a sense of freedom and "live and let live" attitude,That, I suggest is the very reason so many expats come here and Thailand has become...."home" .. for them too.

[Showbags]

Yes...as mentioned above by someone...foreigners have messed up Thailand.

Lord have mercy.

[peterb17]

Why I do not worry too much about what Thailand has or has not become:

Don't own property. Don't own a house. Not married. No children for whom I am legally responsible. Don't own a business. Not employed. Don't go to a shared work space and say I'm not working. Don't live in a tourist area. Don't much hang out with persons who speak or speak only English. Don't own a car. Don't frequent bars at 2 AM. ...

I can tick most of those boxes- but it is pleasant to have your own place ( and a car)

What do you do? Watching the rice grow in some backwater in my idea of living in purgatory . I think the idea that most members spend their time in bars is a bit tired these days?

Anyway getting back to the OP - no has not really changed, maybe people see the lifestyle of the rich more and are fed by the dreaded soaps- and want to drive around in a Benz. The disparity between rich and poor has increased- but no more than the USA, UK etc

Social mobility is non existent - it's so hard to climb up to a better job or social class if you were born on a farm in Isaan.

So maybe this leads to using less honest ways of making money?

[jpeg]

It is just you. Remember Black May? Thailand was just as screwy and corrupt 20 years ago - there was coup after coup and Thai citizens were attacked by the government. However, I loved the place then and I love it now, even if there are plenty of bad apples. There always has been.

Tad disingenuous of you. Would you still be here in 'the land that you love' if it were not for the abundant access to ho's? I seem to remember a couple of threads whereby you stated that was the main attraction (and by many of your posts I'm guessing this is true), and on another thread you were really rather looking forward to 'new possibilities' with Vietnam an Myanmar opening up. No?

[seajae]

I think everything starts in the schools, after the students finish Mattayom 6, no one fails the final exams, I had some students in Mattayom 4 who handed me blank papers in the end of term exams, all boys I might add. A lot of them just did not want to be there, forced to do so by their parents to get them out of the house..

The students leave school having graduated when they should not have, they get some more education in colleges and the parents pay for them to graduate, then they are working in banks, offices etc and are not qualified for what they are supposed to do. That is why you have so much problems in shops, banks and offices.

But if us Farangs would only admit it, we are benefiting from this corruption in many ways, ie paying off the BiB for traffic offences, and that is just the start. So there is no point in us being so hypocritical about corruption here in Thailand.

Get real. How many go all the way to Mattayom 6? What percent? When I taught I had 4 or 5 every term that were repeating a grade and that was in a public school. The impact of the fake degrees is far less than you imagine. If you taught for a while you would realize this.

The school I taught in had about 4000 students, and to my knowledge none were repeating any grades. Don't start telling me to get real, if you want to answer my posts, be a bit more sociable or do not answer at all.

This is Thailand, just like banks, immigration offices etc, schools all have their own rules. Some will do this and some will do that. Give a Thai a uniform, or some authority, and they love it.

I made three points, 1. What percent of Thais finish Mattayom 6? 2. Thai students repeat grades. I know this because I have had students held back from other grades. 3. I have never met a Thai with a fake degree.

You addressed none of those points and in fact added one other stereotypical Thai myth about uniforms.

Forgive me if I am wrong but I think you are an ex taxi driver and not a qualified teacher? Why should I be sociable with a taxi driver who tries to spread untrue rumors about education in Thailand?

You know nothing about fake degrees or education standards in Thailand as far as I know. If you were an observer for a few days in a Thai school I fail to see how that changes things. Do you speak Thai? Are you employed in the Thai education system? Do you have access to the school records of 4000 students in any Thai school?

If you are en educational professional in Thailand please let me know.

never met anyone with a fake degree, you have to be joking, I have only been here a few years and have met several that openly tell you. My wife knows a lot that paid for degrees as well, we get phone calls from teachers asking us for money and you want us to believe that teachers are not corrupt or take payments etc, pull the other one. I love living here but I am also realistic and do not deny all the bullsh*t that happens here(or in my home country), I have witnessed it myself, it seems that you want people to believe in fairy tales and your outright slanted bias, then to top it off you try to threaten someone that queries you, sorry mate but the one with the problem seems to be you. You really need to be realistic and open your eyes and take off the rose coloured glasses. A lot of us love it here but we are not blinded by it and can see the good and the bad, you seem to prefer censorship on anything even slightly negative.

[ABCer]

OP, your lamentations are not warranted simply because they are based on a single event. Meaning that no generalizations should be attempted reflecting on people, their morals, Reds, Yellows or Stripes.

Generally monks are revered and respected even by non-religious folks. I repeat, generally.

There are and always have been exceptional cases. Some quite ugly. No general conclusions based on such rare, seldom publicized cases are or should be made.

Unfortunately we have biased and politically motivated media this day who feed us what is necessary to create certain moods.

Remember, if you do not read their BS - you are uninformed. But if you do read their BS - you are misinformed. The only way out - use your own brains and be the judge of what you are fed.

Your rant is just rant. It is similar to parents of Ancient Greeks complaining about their unruly youths.

Edited March 25, 2014 by ABCer

[NoshowJones]

I likeThai. Right, that's it. refering to me as a taxi driver???? Were you really an English teacher? going by your grammar and spelling I don't think so. Bye Bye.

[seajae]

Thailand has changed a lot according to several people I know, in the last 20 years, it seems to have lost its innocence. My wife talks about her years growing up and what the country was like, her schooling, peoples attitudes etc. She remembers her uni days and we go to her reunions, great bunch of people in every walk of life, police, govt, shop owners etc and they all cannot get over how it has changed and the amount of corruption now involved in almost every aspect of life. This doesnt mean that it isnt still a great country but that corruption has just got a strong foot hold here, most people have just had to accept it and move on with their lives. Those trying to paint negatives as all bullsh*t are deluding thermselves, Thailand is what you make it, you want it to be the ants pants it is but if you want to find fault you will too, it is all up to each person and what they expect it to be for you.