NIDA Poll says majority wants reform ahead of election

[DirtFarmer]

No! Why does NIDA keep repeating these kinds of misleading statements? It is a majority of those 1,255 people who were POLLED by NIDA or about 658 people who wanted to see national reform first. That hardly compares to the 49 million eligible voters! If Thailand, by whatever unelected committee(s) is/are going to make sweeping reform policy based on less than 0.001% of the eligible voters, reforms will never be accepted in a democratic society. And maybe that is the justification for the formation of a dictatorship.

Use of national referendums have been very useful tools by many democratic countries for gauging and gaining public support for major changes to constitutions, laws, and government administrative procedures. Why aren't referendums being used to gauge public intent? The problem for the PDRC is that in a referendum vote it would be held accountable to the general public to explain its opposition to populist policies, to one-man one vote democracy, to unelected public officials, etc. and I don't think it can stand up to that kind of transparency while it condemns the current administration for lack of transparency.

So the same sceptisim should be used for all polls favouring the Red side of the political divide.

I agree, national referendum on 'how to' move forward is needed, but probably wont happen as PTP dont want the whole country to speak

Yes and that's a major part of the problem.

Contrary to what some posters (who should know better) have said here, Suthep has advocated a number of reforms that enhance democracy and decentralisation of power. But because they have come from Suthep - who is portrayed anything from Mussolini to Genghis Khan - they are deemed unacceptable.

The first step is for Yingluck to accept - without any iffs or buts - that reform is needed. The second step is for YL & Suthep to discuss the formation of a reform council/committee/commission. Parallel to the second step is organising a referendum, asking the population do they want reform first, election first or both in parallel.

The organisation to carry out reforms can be formed along the lines of the 1997 constitution-writing group.

The first step is for Yingluck to accept - without any ifs or buts - that reform is needed." I agree.. and I think she is well aware of it by now.

"Suthep has advocated a number of reforms that enhance democracy and decentralisation of power. But because they have come from Suthep - who is portrayed anything from Mussolini to Genghis Khan - they are deemed unacceptable."

Disagree.... knowing his agenda and who he represents I rather think that is a face value acceptance of his dissemination. He has no interest in any decentralization of power..he is as big a part of the existing problem as they come.. if you do any in depth research on the man outside of The Nation press... you may see it differently ( maybe not) but.... he is not what he pretends to be... he also advocated reforms prior to his last trip at the helm and did nothing to invoke them...they were all left on the table after the swoop into power.. and the big guy went back into the back rooms...where he is most effective... the only real reform he wants that is achievable in the sort term is the power grab... all else fails miserably because it will take decades to implement..he knows that we know that...so all this Pahk wahn all this idealism from a guy who is knee deep in mob rule..doesn't really wash with me... and NIDA is a yoke it is bought and paid for by his support group...like I said he is a master charlatan.. I give him kudos for that...

Edited March 26, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[Fat Haggis]

 

If neither side agree to an election or a referendum, then the only option is a Coup of some sort, and that's not going to sit well for the losing side, and the rift and divide between the minority, and yes, it still is a minority as everyone is too scared to take a leap of faith and let the electorate speak, and the Majority will never be healed.

Big % of Thai have no idea what the truth is regarding government antics, where are they going to learn the truth.?? These are the poor people of Issan.

They see no live debate with the P.M. answering awkward questions---no feedback there.

They see little in the Thai papers and in Issan how many people in rural areas buy a paper ??? if they did they would never read much about the wrongs.

They see very little on TV. if anything is said strongly against the government they have a visit.

Most of the rural areas and controlled by the village--either RED or dominated by the head man, little opportunity to speak up.

The big protests however you dislike them were to bring about and to light the immoral activities of government. unless this happened no rural voter would ever know the score.

This is why an election is no way forward, UNTIL the courts also bring to light the offenders WHOEVER THEY MAY BE.

 

I live in such a village, but you'd be surprised as to how much they do know, but yes it's down to the main village head man, or his lieutenants,and what you have to remember, these villagers have known these honchos all their lives, a lot longer that any Politicians, so it's natural they'll listen to what he tells them.

Most are not interested in what goes on in Bangkok, as they just get on with their lives, I've not seen one villager get irate or animated as many of the TVF members here do

[Local Drunk]

Honestly... the rules of TV are better enforced and better written than anything the Thai Constitution has to offer.

I do indeed respect that.

Cheer's TV

[MunterHunter]

Honestly... the rules of TV are better enforced and better written than anything the Thai Constitution has to offer.

I do indeed respect that.

Cheer's TV

George for PM!!! and his team of Moderators for the Cabinet!!!

... oh, maybe not.

[ginjag]

 

If neither side agree to an election or a referendum, then the only option is a Coup of some sort, and that's not going to sit well for the losing side, and the rift and divide between the minority, and yes, it still is a minority as everyone is too scared to take a leap of faith and let the electorate speak, and the Majority will never be healed.

Big % of Thai have no idea what the truth is regarding government antics, where are they going to learn the truth.?? These are the poor people of Issan.

They see no live debate with the P.M. answering awkward questions---no feedback there.

They see little in the Thai papers and in Issan how many people in rural areas buy a paper ??? if they did they would never read much about the wrongs.

They see very little on TV. if anything is said strongly against the government they have a visit.

Most of the rural areas and controlled by the village--either RED or dominated by the head man, little opportunity to speak up.

The big protests however you dislike them were to bring about and to light the immoral activities of government. unless this happened no rural voter would ever know the score.

This is why an election is no way forward, UNTIL the courts also bring to light the offenders WHOEVER THEY MAY BE.

 

I live in such a village, but you'd be surprised as to how much they do know, but yes it's down to the main village head man, or his lieutenants,and what you have to remember, these villagers have known these honchos all their lives, a lot longer that any Politicians, so it's natural they'll listen to what he tells them.

Most are not interested in what goes on in Bangkok, as they just get on with their lives, I've not seen one villager get irate or animated as many of the TVF members here do

I am out of the village life now but have lived years in different ones in the N/E. I agree they do know a lot but much of it is only as you say told to them.

Most of these generally meek people do not ask too much or argue about politics as they go with the flow and happy to do that, BUT there lies the problem.

We -apart from getting knowledge from many outlets-are bombarded with daily --baited news items that raise the temperature OTT. that is why the Mods have a hard time.

If we can enjoy in moderation we are generally happy but on TVF it attracts all sorts of nationalities, who are forced to type English and have to understand sarcasm -UK wit - and different meanings a twist of words. This sometimes can lead to misunderstandings.

[Thaiready]

Poll.....a freaking joke.....anyone can skew any poll to get the results they want....Just where the hell was this poll conducted.???

[larsjohnsson]

Poll.....a freaking joke.....anyone can skew any poll to get the results they want....Just where the hell was this poll conducted.???

In Lumphini park

[Fat Haggis]

 

 

If neither side agree to an election or a referendum, then the only option is a Coup of some sort, and that's not going to sit well for the losing side, and the rift and divide between the minority, and yes, it still is a minority as everyone is too scared to take a leap of faith and let the electorate speak, and the Majority will never be healed.

Big % of Thai have no idea what the truth is regarding government antics, where are they going to learn the truth.?? These are the poor people of Issan.

They see no live debate with the P.M. answering awkward questions---no feedback there.

They see little in the Thai papers and in Issan how many people in rural areas buy a paper ??? if they did they would never read much about the wrongs.

They see very little on TV. if anything is said strongly against the government they have a visit.

Most of the rural areas and controlled by the village--either RED or dominated by the head man, little opportunity to speak up.

The big protests however you dislike them were to bring about and to light the immoral activities of government. unless this happened no rural voter would ever know the score.

This is why an election is no way forward, UNTIL the courts also bring to light the offenders WHOEVER THEY MAY BE.

 

I live in such a village, but you'd be surprised as to how much they do know, but yes it's down to the main village head man, or his lieutenants,and what you have to remember, these villagers have known these honchos all their lives, a lot longer that any Politicians, so it's natural they'll listen to what he tells them.

Most are not interested in what goes on in Bangkok, as they just get on with their lives, I've not seen one villager get irate or animated as many of the TVF members here do

I am out of the village life now but have lived years in different ones in the N/E. I agree they do know a lot but much of it is only as you say told to them.

Most of these generally meek people do not ask too much or argue about politics as they go with the flow and happy to do that, BUT there lies the problem.

We -apart from getting knowledge from many outlets-are bombarded with daily --baited news items that raise the temperature OTT. that is why the Mods have a hard time.

If we can enjoy in moderation we are generally happy but on TVF it attracts all sorts of nationalities, who are forced to type English and have to understand sarcasm -UK wit - and different meanings a twist of words. This sometimes can lead to misunderstandings.

 

Oh indeed and spot on mate, and I am grateful for the debates, as I'm learning as well, even though I give a few members a hard time, such as djjamie, and scamper, without their input, and knowledge it would be pointless, same as yourself, and we fail to comprehend the differences many's a time between expats, and Thai's it's apples and Oranges big time, we all know how we would like things to be, it's convincing the Thai's without insulting them, or acting in a condescending manner, that's the trick.

Belittling someone because they're not the same as being so awesome and educated and well off financially doesn't really sit too well with me, as there's always someone better off and more intelligent to boot. From all that I've seen in the past 18 months of the small village life is that they're happy with their lot, and like little cochon en merde most of the time.

[tezzainoz]

It's good that this poll indicates the people have had enough of the politicians lying and cheating and serving their own ends which has always been there but has now reached new levels under this government.

Now we need two things to happen. Suthep has to outline exactly what these reforms should be and Yingluck should present her party's plans and both should be debated in an open public forum.

If she is worthy of being PM she should at least be able to do this.

But she is NOT capable of an open and contradictory public debate. Dot.

Well in that case she shouldn't be the country's prime minister.

You wouldn't want a pilot who didn't know how to fly a plane.

I hate to say this

But we have had one for the last 3 years

[Thai at Heart]

Any reforms are better than none. we knew you would not agree as it is not in favour of PTP.

Huh?

You suspend democracy just to have "any reforms". Now I have heard some stupid things in Thai politial thinking but that is up there with, "well any subsidy has to be better than none". And yes, the current subsidy is a very stupid way to feed farmers more, and I believe that the idea of suspending democracy to gain reform will not work because what will be delivered will not have to be provably accountable to the people. It will be imposed in a haphazard way, and a bit like this consitution, which wasn't thought through properly, or debated, it will have massive loopholes that someone with a devious mind will get through.

The best way to create a self governing and self righting system is to have more democracy not less, more accountablity, not less. This is created by having representative elections, and representative decision making. This CANNOT be achieved by a self appointed committee of academics and "poo dee". They don't represent the people so it WILL NOT WORK. 5 years after the reform it will be time to do it again because they will have to unravel the mistakes of what was done. The way it can work is to have elections, parliaments, a free press, proper debate, and more elections. There is no other way to do it that will work in the long run. Reforming the police doesn't need the suspension of parliament, and the list goes on.

IN fact, i would add, that without changing the defamation law NO amount of reform will change anything. It is a cloak to protect thievery and corruption. They can all give up if that doesn't get changed. Any news on Suthep reforming that one. didn't think so, he's a pooyai so he sees the value in it.

Put your party back and we will get the opposite, it will be a closed shop.

Can you actually see a free press??? parliamentary debates--Weekly question time ???? So if it doesn't need a suspension of government then WHY haven't the police been brought to heel--2+ years and what.

Why hasn't there been accountability ??? accounts for government work ???

You are suggesting the impossible being blinded to believe PTP will do the reforms it's self.

Who suspended democracy ??? the PM to quickly regain control and push through any other money making scheme it wanted and Amnesty for HIM ---sorry for all.

This short term intervention will not work.

Legal systems cannot be imposed in a trice. It takes time not a shock

[Thai at Heart]

Also, without an effective even handed court system, all the reform under the sun won't change anything unless EVERYONE is subject equally to the law.

Any turkeys voting for Xmas?????

[northernjohn]

"It said the answer was that 52.51% wanted to see national reform first"

That's what the majority wants.........that's what will be done.

Not if the red shirts can help it.

[northernjohn]

Another one of these by guns are polls.

How do they do it. Yesterday sukhumband failed because he wasn't outstanding, today 52% want reform, when Suthep hasn't even told the people exactly what his reform is yet.

1st question should be

Do you really understand what the proposed reforms are?

What percentage do?

5?, 10?

No one has a clue what these reforms are, so how can anyone support them?

Actually Thai Visa has not promoted them and I have not read the Bangkok post.

I am quite sure if I had I would have an idea of what they are proposing from the six open forums they had on the subject.

I do know that Suthep was involved with them and if Thailand is to ever have a lasting and meaningful consciences political leaders can not take part in them as their position is already known and unacceptable to the majority of the population.

That is not to say there is some thing wrong or they could not give some good advice but there are those who would just say they are biased and don't really care they just want power. there by hoping to cheapen the results.

[brownbear]

This miserable whining and winging which comes from the PTP and their supporters every time a decision by the 'independent institutions' goes against them, when a press article or opinion by a third party, or, a poll is not in their favour and so on, is getting extremely tedious. The resulting rubbish which spews out from the mouths and words of these people is almost unbelievable.

A few moths ago I would have been surprised and reluctant, in fact, to believe that there was such an element in the Thai Forum Visa community. Obviously now, there certainly is but it is comforting to know that such people are the vocal minority: many of us can probably name most of these people who stand out like termite mounds on a cricket pitch. Doubt me, then lets have a Thai Visa Forum Poll! How about something along the lines of the poll reported in the OP:

In favour or reforms before elections/In favour of elections first

and as well, how about:

In favour of the Thaksins stepping completely out of Thai politics/In favour of the Thaksins continuing to dominate politics and government in this country?

Something along those lines at least....

of course to cover my arse I'll say straight out that I won't accept the validity or accuracy of the results of any such poll (unless possibly it goes in favour of my views).

[rametindallas]

It's good that this poll indicates the people have had enough of the politicians lying and cheating and serving their own ends which has always been there but has now reached new levels under this government.

Now we need two things to happen. Suthep has to outline exactly what these reforms should be and they must be debated in an open public forum by the two leaders.

If she is worthy of being PM she should at least be able to do this.

It is not Suthep's prerogative, and he has said as much. to make the reforms. A non-partisan commission will suggest reforms and they will be put to the people for a vote. Suthep's only goal is to remove the Shinawatra influence from any reform measures. The future of reforms should not be decided by Suthep and Yingluck or any other politicians. Suthep, at least, has the good sense to know he is tainted in the eyes of the majority of the population as is Yingluck. The reform commission should be made up of the same people as would be a charter rewrite commission.

[rametindallas]

It's good that this poll indicates the people have had enough of the politicians lying and cheating and serving their own ends which has always been there but has now reached new levels under this government.

Now we need two things to happen. Suthep has to outline exactly what these reforms should be and Yingluck should present her party's plans and both should be debated in an open public forum.

If she is worthy of being PM she should at least be able to do this.

But she is NOT capable of an open and contradictory public debate. Dot.

Well in that case she shouldn't be the country's prime minister.

You wouldn't want a pilot who didn't know how to fly a plane.

That's what you have a co-pilot for

or a 'caddy'

[rametindallas]

Another one of these by guns are polls.

How do they do it. Yesterday sukhumband failed because he wasn't outstanding, today 52% want reform, when Suthep hasn't even told the people exactly what his reform is yet.

1st question should be

Do you really understand what the proposed reforms are?

What percentage do?

5?, 10?

No one has a clue what these reforms are, so how can anyone support them?

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

I'm afraid you are getting the cart before the horse. People have to first decide if they want reforms (this poll says they have), then they decide how to go about drawing up a list of reforms, and then they can vote on which reforms on the list they want. Is it less 'bogus' now?

[Thai at Heart]

Another one of these by guns are polls.

How do they do it. Yesterday sukhumband failed because he wasn't outstanding, today 52% want reform, when Suthep hasn't even told the people exactly what his reform is yet.

1st question should be

Do you really understand what the proposed reforms are?

What percentage do?

5?, 10?

No one has a clue what these reforms are, so how can anyone support them?

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

I'm afraid you are getting the cart before the horse. People have to first decide if they want reforms (this poll says they have), then they decide how to go about drawing up a list of reforms, and then they can vote on which reforms on the list they want. Is it less 'bogus' now?

Huh? This poll says they have decided ? The people aren't going to draw up any list of what they will like reformed. That will be given to them. The people won't be given any leeway on what degree of reform they would like. That will be decided for them.

They will have no say in any of it. In fact, with a normal variation in the vote, its as likely they haven't said yes to anything at all.

If they first asked "do you clearly understand what reforms are being proposed ?". What would be the result saying yes? 5%

So yes, this and just about all surveys like this in Thailand are bogies be they pro or anti ptp or PDRC.

[rametindallas]

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

I'm afraid you are getting the cart before the horse. People have to first decide if they want reforms (this poll says they have), then they decide how to go about drawing up a list of reforms, and then they can vote on which reforms on the list they want. Is it less 'bogus' now?

Huh? This poll says they have decided ? The people aren't going to draw up any list of what they will like reformed. That will be given to them. The people won't be given any leeway on what degree of reform they would like. That will be decided for them.

They will have no say in any of it. In fact, with a normal variation in the vote, its as likely they haven't said yes to anything at all.

If they first asked "do you clearly understand what reforms are being proposed ?". What would be the result saying yes? 5%

So yes, this and just about all surveys like this in Thailand are bogies be they pro or anti ptp or PDRC.

They have decided that reforms before elections is the way to proceed. I see you are a fortune-teller now what with your predictions of how reforms will go. Why don't you wait and see what happens. You can't live your life in the future; especially one that hasn't happened.

[Thai at Heart]

A gold star for you sir.

This survey is completely and utterly bogus

I'm afraid you are getting the cart before the horse. People have to first decide if they want reforms (this poll says they have), then they decide how to go about drawing up a list of reforms, and then they can vote on which reforms on the list they want. Is it less 'bogus' now?

Huh? This poll says they have decided ? The people aren't going to draw up any list of what they will like reformed. That will be given to them. The people won't be given any leeway on what degree of reform they would like. That will be decided for them.

They will have no say in any of it. In fact, with a normal variation in the vote, its as likely they haven't said yes to anything at all.

If they first asked "do you clearly understand what reforms are being proposed ?". What would be the result saying yes? 5%

So yes, this and just about all surveys like this in Thailand are bogies be they pro or anti ptp or PDRC.

They have decided that reforms before elections is the way to proceed. I see you are a fortune-teller now what with your predictions of how reforms will go. Why don't you wait and see what happens. You can't live your life in the future; especially one that hasn't happened.

Who is they? Because it surely isn't " the people.

I firmly believe any reform.will be superficial and incomplete and not solve the problem.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[rametindallas]

Huh? This poll says they have decided ? The people aren't going to draw up any list of what they will like reformed. That will be given to them. The people won't be given any leeway on what degree of reform they would like. That will be decided for them.

They will have no say in any of it. In fact, with a normal variation in the vote, its as likely they haven't said yes to anything at all.

If they first asked "do you clearly understand what reforms are being proposed ?". What would be the result saying yes? 5%

So yes, this and just about all surveys like this in Thailand are bogies be they pro or anti ptp or PDRC.

They have decided that reforms before elections is the way to proceed. I see you are a fortune-teller now what with your predictions of how reforms will go. Why don't you wait and see what happens. You can't live your life in the future; especially one that hasn't happened.

Who is they? Because it surely isn't " the people.

I firmly believe any reform.will be superficial and incomplete and not solve the problem.

'They' are the 52% if poll respondents who answered that reforms should come before elections. An addition 38% want reforms after the elections but they do want reforms. According to the poll, 90% want reforms and their only difference is when.

I firmly believe any reform.will be superficial and incomplete and not solve the problem.

Yes, it's difficult to be optimistic when the people, who's side you've taken, are as corrupt as possible and you know they will never change. Let me give you some hope because the poll shows an overwhelming majority of Thai people want reform, and action has been taken (PDRC) to stop the interference to reform, there really is a chance that some improvements can be made. This poll should encourage you, not depress you.

[robblok]

"It said the answer was that 52.51% wanted to see national reform first"

That's what the majority wants.........that's what will be done.

No No that is red thinking.. and only works when its in their advantage.

Reforms before an election are sensible so the reds would never agree with it.

Who could be against reforms aimed at curbing corruption... ehh.. the Shins of course and their brainwashed followers.

[GuestHouse]

NIDA is well-know as a yellow agency. Nothing to see here

NIDA is not known as a yellow agency.

Both sides of the political debate point the finger and what they do not like in NIDA research, which is an indication that the research is neutral.

How, NIDA research is presented by the press is of course another matter entirely.

[HerbalEd]

If truly representative of the Thai people at large, this one statement perfectly illustrates that the Thai people have no idea how a democratic government is supposed to work.