Costs of building a loft home?

[vadimbz]

I plan to make a big move this year, and I'm investigating options for permanent accomodation, for now I have decided to sign 1-year rental contract in either Cha Am or outskirts of Bangkok, and see how it goes.

Buying house at some point is an option (please don't make it another "rent don't buy thread"), but until recently I haven't considered building, not even for a moment, — I have no background in construction, I have never been anyone's boss (no idea how can one make people work, if they don't want to), and finally I am just lazy. My mind started to shift to building my own despite all of the above, when I had suddenly realized that loft house — my dream home since before I became aware what is "loft" — should be considerably cheaper, and faster to build than regular house of similar "volume". The below photo should illustrate what I am talking about, this house is pretty much the same size as your average Thai country/suburb house, yet they have saved big buck on walls, and ceilings/floors. Bedrooms are most likely just above the photographer (they are the actual "loft"), and kitchen is behind him/her:

Can anyone who's been there, done that, confirm or dispose my cheaper/faster assumption? If difference exists, can we estimate it somehow? Ceteris paribus, of course.

Here's some more illustrations. I want to have spiral chairs dtuay:

The best lofts come from conversion of industrial buildings, when it comes to wall finish, nothing beats good old red brickwork, or plain concrete. But I'm afraid Thai industry is too young to have properties to write off

And the last one looks somewhat low-budget, or may be just too minimal:

Edited March 27, 2014 by vadimbz

[Crossy]

Interesting as a single person / couple home, I'm going to throw in a few 'buts' here.

Your first issue will be keeping that massive interconnected volume cool without getting hotspots on the upper level. $$$ in energy consumption

What about cooking smells in the living/work area, I really love my wife's cooking but I don't want to smell it in my office area.

The walls in a standard Thai structure are not load bearing and are cheap and quick to put up and (if necessary) take down. The money is in the post and beam structural elements, I don't think you'll save 'big bucks' by leaving walls out.

Leaving out part of the upper floor will save some cash, but it removes a considerable floor area too.

Just a few things to think about.

As to cost, I'll leave that to the construction experts.

[vadimbz]

Interesting as a single person / couple home, I'm going to throw in a few 'buts' here.

Can easily be four-bedroom family home.

Your first issue will be keeping that massive interconnected volume cool without getting hotspots on the upper level. $$$ in energy consumption

This is a known issue. The solution starts with careful design (guess what, there's even an app a CAD for that):

-Central aircon (you won't get away with regular split), strategically placed ceiling, and box fans, plus a few censors and a controller to to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. 900-baht Strawberry Pi will do the job, but there are also controllers for hiso that cost 100k and more.

-Then there's smart use of materials: absorption, reflection, insulation. I wonder if Thailand even knows about IR blocking film for windows... Even blinds can make a huge difference.

-Garden.

What about cooking smells in the living/work area, I really love my wife's cooking but I don't want to smell it in my office area.

You have never lived in a studio, haven't you? Commodity flow through exhaust does the job pretty well.

The walls in a standard Thai structure are not load bearing and are cheap and quick to put up and (if necessary) take down. The money is in the post and beam structural elements, I don't think you'll save 'big bucks' by leaving walls out.Leaving out part of the upper floor will save some cash, but it removes a considerable floor area too.

I can't give you a meaningful answer here, but a few days ago I have seen the loft that looked very light — thin plastic-y walls and no beams or columns or whatever. The structure looked very barnish from outside, but it's probably more robust than it looks, or residents wouldn't make it through their first winter. Will try to find it. Thai way is not the only way — material science is developing rapidly, and you can always get new stuff on AliBaba before authors file a patent claim J

It's not really about cash, it's about free open space, big windows are also a part of this. Alleged cost benefits are a bonus that could make the whole thing viable for me.

Also lots of floor space in standard two- and three-bedrooms are wasted: huge "lobbies" that people just pass through, 10-meter "hall" between bedrooms on the 2nd floor, etc.

Edited March 27, 2014 by vadimbz

[onionluke]

The builder would probably be happier with a barn than a loft.

[IMHO]

Thai way is not the only way — material science is developing rapidly, and you can always get new stuff on AliBaba before authors file a patent claim J

In Thailand, Thai way is the "only way" (as you put it) from the POV of building regulations, what an engineer (who must be Thai) will sign off on, and what the Tessaban will approve..

Not saying it's impossible, but it may be difficult to do it the "western way", and will certainly be very expensive to do the Thai way, given the width of spans required to make it all work...

[umbanda]

I am planning to build something similar and I will use steel structure. Because this part will be the most expensive of the project, I will get a quote for the steel work first with a steel contractor, and think about walls, floors, doors and windows, later to fit my budget....executing every section with the proper sub-contractor. I believe that I will be more in control in that way, and not get surprised by "additions" and time wasting. Anyway, my project is for a small and very modern "self-sustainable" home to build in 3 steps, 3 sections. Total cost to not exceed 1 million bath.

.

Edited March 27, 2014 by umbanda

[RAZZELL]

You reckon you could build that for 1m????

RAZZ

[hagler]

You reckon you could build that for 1m????

RAZZ

yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhttttttttttt.......

[vadimbz]

Steelwork is interesting, but... Won't you be baking there? Or it's not actually steel?

[Naam]

You reckon you could build that for 1m????

RAZZ

don't spoil his dream with ugly facts...

[RAZZELL]

You reckon you could build that for 1m????

RAZZ

don't spoil his dream with ugly facts...

13m

http://www.officeat.com/?p=582

RAZZ

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I am planning to build something similar and I will use steel structure. Because this part will be the most expensive of the project, I will get a quote for the steel work first with a steel contractor, and think about walls, floors, doors and windows, later to fit my budget....executing every section with the proper sub-contractor. I believe that I will be more in control in that way, and not get surprised by "additions" and time wasting. Anyway, my project is for a small and very modern "self-sustainable" home to build in 3 steps, 3 sections. Total cost to not exceed 1 million bath.

.Sam's House.jpg

Steel sounds good because Thailand has serious problems with white ants, in some areas they eat cement.

Good luck and I hope you can finish it within budget.

Edited March 27, 2014 by scorecard

[Senechal]

What are you asking? About buying a property and converting it? Or about a long term lease and a conversion?

Your problem is going to be property ownership, not conversion. Just because it's in a building doesn't mean the building is zoned as a juristic condominium building. You're not going to be able to legally acquire the structure you need for residential purposes, which makes your venture very high risk. You can however sign a long lease, but then you're renting.

If you're thinking about buying in your wife's name or through a company whose purpose is to acquire real estate, then you're embarking on a project with 100% risk of principal. It may work out for you, but the risks are much higher than any normal real-estate venture.

These kinds of projects are rare in Thailand and it's not because other people haven't had the idea. It's because the idea is fraught with specific legal, ownership and logistical issues in Thailand which make it a very expensive, risky venture.

[vadimbz]

1. I am aware of the risks.

2. I consider building a loft-type house from scratch

Edited March 27, 2014 by vadimbz

[Crossy]

Leaving aside the risks of the various ownership vehicles our OP has a few hurdles to overcome;-

1. He has no construction experience.
2. His architect, engineer and contractor will have no experience of building this type of home.
3. The materials which he wishes to make smart use of may not be available here.
4. If he opts for the smart-home solution to manage the internal environment, is there a (competent) company he can employ?

He'll need to do a lot of research, finding construction drawings of similar buildings using similar materials in order to get the architect started.

None of this is a show-stopper mind, is there an approximate size and budget available??

Many of our temperate climate techniques don't translate well to a tropical environment. I have seen similar layouts to our OP here, but the main area has been open sided and shaded with trees and plants (no aircon) with bedrooms etc. partitioned off and A/C'd

One final point and then I'll shut up, traditional Thai homes look like they do for a reason, mostly that reason is to do with liveability.

[akampa]

I am planning to build something similar and I will use steel structure. Because this part will be the most expensive of the project, I will get a quote for the steel work first with a steel contractor, and think about walls, floors, doors and windows, later to fit my budget....executing every section with the proper sub-contractor. I believe that I will be more in control in that way, and not get surprised by "additions" and time wasting. Anyway, my project is for a small and very modern "self-sustainable" home to build in 3 steps, 3 sections. Total cost to not exceed 1 million bath.

.Sam's House.jpg

Sam`s House picture is a Huf pre-made wood framed house from Germany cost there about 350-500 hundred thousand Euro ,so I am completing a Huf insipired house with less window space cost about 1.6 million Baht,good luck need any help just pm me.

Edited March 28, 2014 by akampa

[1Ping1]

I can only wish you the best of luck other than to try and heed the advice of those cautioning you about heading into this with no experience on either building or supervising. I would try very hard to bring someone on board that has the experience and that can be trusted. How you do that, I leave up to others as I am still not clear on that, but I am sure it is possible.

As an ex Builder and Supervisor of many back in another lifetime, I have read many a thread on TV about the headaches involved with building a home in Thailand. Someday I may do the same as you are planning on doing. But to tell you the truth, it scares even me to think of the headaches involved. If approached and done right, building a home can be a very rewarding experience, it can also be the nightmare from hell if it is not. And yes, this can be true in many countries but it is one of those things that is even more relevant to undertaking it in the LOS I suspect from what I have read and seen over the past three years.

One of my hobbies in fact is driving around on my bike just to find and then watch and track progress on others projects similar to this. I quite simply spent the first year being "stunned" as to what was "normal" but that in itself makes for great entertainment. I had a lot to learn, I still have a lot to learn, but all I have learned so far is that "wow", I cannot believe what they call acceptable building practices in this country.

Structural, Yeah, you best be on it or you are going to end up with worm holed structural beams as it was pouring down rain the entire time they were building them and the structural integrity is crap. Then, add on the Elec, plumbing, and as noted, you simply must have someone on site that knows what is going on. Yes, this could be the Contractor himself but most of the good ones are doing more than one project at a time so it is put on a "field supervisor", if there even is one. So you truly need to know who you are dealing with. And you quite simply MUST KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON...............

Yes, it has and can be done with great results but from what I have read on TV, only if you are micro managing the project to death. Meaning knowing what it going on and monitoring the project from ground zero each and every day.............

Having said that, I admire your spirit.................... Good luck and I wish you the best results.........

[vadimbz]

2Crossy

All good and valid points, but it's not exactly a gothic cathedral, more like a barn, a shoe box. Can it really be so confusing for locals?

2. There are lots of small to medium commercial spaces that fit the profile, large merged open area in front, and smaller two-storey part on the back, e.g. glass-front motorbike shops.

3. It's not really about fancy stuff, more like not putting dark finish/furniture to areas, exposed to the Sun. And yes, low-e film/glass appears to be missing in Thailand, but it doesn't mean that it's unavailable.

4. I'm not talking about full-blown smarthome, just some feedback, and perhaps some scheduling for coordination.

And yes, I'm on very early stages of gathering intel, and I'll keep going this way for at least one year...

Edited March 28, 2014 by vadimbz

[vadimbz]

2sawadeka

I appreciate your concern and meaningful comment, but it's not like I'm kicking off tomorrow. I'll keep renting for at least year and a half from now, this should be enough to probe the area, or find a show-stopper obstacle. Having one's personal superviser onsite is a great idea, but who will supervise the that superviser?-)

Edited March 28, 2014 by vadimbz

[keeniau96]

Having build five houses on Phuket, all original designs, I have found the key to getting things done is a good architect to design the detailed working prints, and a good contractor with good subcontractors for the plumbing, electrical, aircon and carpentry work. Also that I personally spend a daily hour on the site carefully inspecting the work that is being done; errors will be found every day, guaranteed.

Avoid any exotic or new materials and techniques that the workers will not be familiar with. Your desired loft can be created very ably using the conventional Thai ferroconcrete post and beam construction method.

[vadimbz]

I know, I know. But it's not easy to walk away from their value preposition — erecting house in weeks or days.

[kamalabob2]

To the OP: Members of this forum have taken the time to post real warnings if you wish to go in a direction not often found in Thailand. Posts 15, 17 and 20 are worth reading again. You might see your concept and exotic materials at the annual Architect Expo. It is held this year April 29 through May 4th at Impact Challenger Hall. You can sign up on line for free admission. It does not appear to have as many vendors this year as five years ago, but it is worthwhile to attend for those in the area who want interesting ideas for a new home. A room where you can read or watch your choice of TV without hearing Thai Soap Operas is one worth considering when you meet with your Thai architect.

http://www.architectexpo.com/

[vadimbz]

Your rant is duly noted, but you should probably go easy on "exotic" part. Ever heard of skyscrapers?

[seedy]

Wow ! Knowledgeable people try and help the OP, give advice gained thru their years of experience, and if it does not fit in with what he wants - snide, degrading comments result.

Congratulations - you are on the list !!

[bobo42]

Anything that is not done in "the usual way" for the Thai architect, builders and suppliers involved will surely be more expensive, not less. It might be nicer to live in, or more beautiful to look at, or just cool because its different, but it will almost certainly not be cheaper. If you want to build something unique and interesting, I applaud your enthusiasm - but if you're looking to save money vs the normal construction methods here (which are typically incredibly cheap), I think you're going to find yourself disappointed.

[vadimbz]

Wow ! Knowledgeable people try and help the OP, give advice gained thru their years of experience, and if it does not fit in with what he wants - snide, degrading comments result.

Congratulations - you are on the list !!

Thank you. Being in the list is a good thing, right? Are you there too? Can you kindly check the meaning of "derogatory" before you add someone else? I agree that the advice to go and play with other housing hipsters was good though, so was the bashing of innocent tech. People like you guys make Empire State Building cry in shame. And I guess I should apologize for the "rant" thing... suppose I just did.

Anything that is not done in "the usual way" for the Thai architect, builders and suppliers involved will surely be more expensive, not less. It might be nicer to live in, or more beautiful to look at, or just cool because its different, but it will almost certainly not be cheaper. If you want to build something unique and interesting, I applaud your enthusiasm - but if you're looking to save money vs the normal construction methods here (which are typically incredibly cheap), I think you're going to find yourself disappointed.

According to my sources steel framing is 15% cheaper than brick (estimated in UK), plus I will not need support structures that I wanted to avoid anyway to keep the open floor "open". As for saving money, keeping the budget tight is the only way for me to afford it, but what really blows my mind is the timeframe, assembly only takes weeks, during that time I can stand behind every shoulder, and hire a pair of keen eyes to spot everything I missed. Year-long construction with conventional methods... I don't even want to think about it. Reinforced concrete will be cast onsite, right?

Thai architect can become a problem, thank for the warning, but this picture clearly proves that tea money are safely paid to YL, so all he can do is ask for some more for himself.

And by the way, I'm not 100% pro-steel, something about it is just making me uncomfortable. I'll drop it, if I find a good reason to. And by the way, what I want to have is rather common, not by all means unique:

http://www.pinterest.com/missclawdy/home-loft-open-space/

Edited March 29, 2014 by vadimbz

[vadimbz]

By the way, does anyone know Khun Bpraim1 who started this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/156372-building-a-house-a-different-way/

7 years ago? After all this time his experience would be... definitive.

[crazykopite]

Interesting as a single person / couple home, I'm going to throw in a few 'buts' here.

Your first issue will be keeping that massive interconnected volume cool without getting hotspots on the upper level. $$$ in energy consumption

What about cooking smells in the living/work area, I really love my wife's cooking but I don't want to smell it in my office area.

The walls in a standard Thai structure are not load bearing and are cheap and quick to put up and (if necessary) take down. The money is in the post and beam structural elements, I don't think you'll save 'big bucks' by leaving walls out.

Leaving out part of the upper floor will save some cash, but it removes a considerable floor area too.

Just a few things to think about.

As to cost, I'll leave that to the construction experts.

Loft properties make fantastic homes I no longer own one however my property here in Thailand is very open plan for example in my very large lounge area which is apprx 75sq mtr I have a fitted European kitchen and off that is an office and coming of the office is a half bathroom ( toilet&washbowl) I am then left with a dining area and a large lounge area I have no problems with food smell as I had installed a proper European extractor hood which extracts food smells out of the building on top of this I had incorporated an extractor fan in the bathroom for any unpleasant oders, above this room is the master bedroom yes 75 sq mtr I access that from the 3 metre wide undercover terrace by way of a granite staircase no problem in the rainy season as such is the design the whole area is under cover if and when you build your property make sure you build it where you can benefit from good wind flow to ensure you get good free ventilation and one thing I have noticed with a lot of farang houses is the lack of undercover terrace or overhangs by doing this you will keep the heat of the sun away from your main living space especially if you have a lot of glass like I have . Build costs vary around Thailand I live on an island so transportation comes into the cost factor . my build cost was 30,000 per sq mtr but it is of a very high standard all the teak is mature aged teak and all window / doors are of brushed steel with double glazing it is not the typical Thai property ! Good luck with your venture!!

[splitlid]

We have just completed the design of a 600sqm steel framed house, with mezzanine floor in the main lounge area.

our normal engineer could not do the structural work so we had to hire another one at extra cost for the design, it also took a long time for our architect to get his head around the concept.

now getting a company interested in tendering on the project is seemingly impossible, of the 10 companies we contacted only 3 are interested in the work.

so as said before, anything out of the norm will be costly and must be supervised by someone who knows what they are doing.

[vadimbz]

May be it's because of Songkran?-)