How Can I Confirm I Am Part Of The 49% In Condo?

[sfokevin]

As a foreigner purchasing a condo how can I confirm (Prove to the Land Registry Office) that I am one of the 49% of allowed foreigners in a particular condo development? Would a letter from the developer be sufficient?

[pepi1]

General Rule in Thailand, dont believe anything anybody tells you, least of all developers. Go to land office with thai speaking person, check yourself. Then instruct lawyer who practices a long way from property. That way you stand some chance he/she is not connected with developer or agent. Me, I always use 2 lawyers ,one to check the others work. Yes ,it costs a little more ,but better to not have any nasty surprises later. All in my opinion

[Dragonman]

As a foreigner purchasing a condo how can I confirm (Prove to the Land Registry Office) that I am one of the 49% of allowed foreigners in a particular condo development? Would a letter from the developer be sufficient?

Every condo doveloper should be well aware of the requirements of the Condominium Act, and should furnish the Land Office, or at least their lawyer should, with the relevant documentation. Confirm with them they have such, ready for completion of the purchase.

[monty]

Registering a condo in a Foreigners name requires a statement from either the developer or the condo management with the complete list of the owners...

In the case of a secondhand condo, this is mostly the time when the condo management can receive any outstanding debts (maintenance fees etc...) from the owner (the seller) before they will issue the seller with the paper to effect the transfer at land and house...

[jbaldwin]

For the transfer to be registered with the Land Office the Juristic Person Manager of the Condo is required to sign to say the he is content with the transfer. He must check first the the 49% rule is being followed (and also the there are no outstanding fees due).

If the seller is a foreigner then you must be OK as the transfer will not charge the Thai/Foreigner. However if you are buying from a Thai you should check with the Condo office that there is some retaining Foreigner quota.

[simcity]

hello..

is every condo block who have the 49% farang ownership or only the one who wish to participated ?

[Jomtien]

With complete new condo blocks, I too wonder what the correct procedure is to get it in your own name.

Do you need to close a special deal with the developper? or is it a first come first served type of thing, with hunderds of fallangs with rucksacks laying in front of the Land Department Office at 8.30 A.M.

Peter

[jbaldwin]

hello..

is every condo block who have the 49% farang ownership or only the one who wish to participated ?

As a general rule any Condo development which has been designed to attact Foreign buyers will go over the 49% limit. Condo developments designed to attact Thai buyers will be less than 49%. If you only looking at Condos designed for foreigners you will alway have a problem unless you reserve a unit in the early stages of construction.

For example, I live in a Condo development in Pattaya completed about three years ago. Not a single unit was purchased by a Thai other than those with a foreign husband. 49% are now owned by foreigners, 35% by companies or Thai wives and the other 15% are still owned by the Thai developer, who rents them out.

[Gary A]

I got a letter from the condo association telling the land office what belonged to who. The land office will NOT put your name on the chanote unless everything is proper and legal. I do have a friend who bought a condo in View Talay. He paid his down payment and when they were ready to go to the land office they informed him that the farang condo ownership had reached 49 percent farangs. They didn't want to refund his money and instead gave him a free Thai company so he could "OWN" his unit. I told him that I would have insisted on having my money back. They convinced him that the company was perfectly legal and that he had no worries.

DON'T pay anything until you know for sure you can own the unit freehold. Once they get a substancial amount of money from you it may be VERY difficult to get it back.

[ThaiBob]

Gary A, your friend's story is similar to mine. I've signed a pre-construction contract with View Talay #7 in Pattaya. I purchased early and have a low contract number. I make monthly installment payments with a ballon payment after 36 months. I find the current real estate situation somewhat unnerving but everyone tells me to relax and that I have nothing to worry about. Logically I'm one of the lucky 49 percenters but I have only promises and nothing in writing. Everyone I've talked to tells me the View Talay folks are on the up and up. Your friend must have purchased in the last phase of that project? Construction at VT 7 will start this summer/fall and I hate to back-out since I will have a high-story, front unit with great views.

[Gary A]

If I were you I'd be beating on doors and asking lots of questions. At this stage you may even need to find a decent lawyer who can get assurances from them that the unit will be freehold in your name. Logically I would think it would be first come first serve. Sometimes they sell blocks of units to real estate agents who will tell you anything to get your down payment. Tread carefully and make sure what you are buying. Good luck!!

Gary A, your friend's story is similar to mine. I've signed a pre-construction contract with View Talay #7 in Pattaya. I purchased early and have a low contract number. I make monthly installment payments with a ballon payment after 36 months. I find the current real estate situation somewhat unnerving but everyone tells me to relax and that I have nothing to worry about. Logically I'm one of the lucky 49 percenters but I have only promises and nothing in writing. Everyone I've talked to tells me the View Talay folks are on the up and up. Your friend must have purchased in the last phase of that project? Construction at VT 7 will start this summer/fall and I hate to back-out since I will have a high-story, front unit with great views.

[johng]

Isn't View Talay #7 the one they want to build right in front of the existing Jomtien Condotel ?

I heard they are having some trouble with the land department as the owners of Jomtien condotel have complained that building View Talay #7 would block their tennants view to the beach..

[ThaiBob]

If I were you I'd be beating on doors and asking lots of questions. At this stage you may even need to find a decent lawyer who can get assurances from them that the unit will be freehold in your name. Logically I would think it would be first come first serve. Sometimes they sell blocks of units to real estate agents who will tell you anything to get your down payment. Tread carefully and make sure what you are buying. Good luck!!

Sounds like sound advice....Thanks!

[ThaiBob]

Isn't View Talay #7 the one they want to build right in front of the existing Jomtien Condotel ?

I heard they are having some trouble with the land department as the owners of Jomtien condotel have complained that building View Talay #7 would block their tennants view to the beach..

VT #7 will be built on the beach obscuring views from Jomtien Complex (the twin towers). There were rumors of law suits and issues with Planning Commission. Apparently all is well, sale signs are up and there is pile driving equipment on site. The start construction date schedule was late 2006 with completion late 2008.

[bangkapiboy]

Jomtien Complex is nice. But the land there was never beach front to begin with, so their view was never solid.

Anyway, all condo offices will issue you a letter to the land dept if you can be the farrang owner or not. It's all fairly simple and just follow the procedure. If you are on the deed, then you are the owner, simple as that. Land office does not mess around. They will tell you.

[LOS NICK]

thai bob-----you are not one of the lucky 49% people...you have a contract to purchase a condo just like the rest of the people who bought in project 7..it doesnt matter the time frame you bought the unit...thats how they sell out the building..they give you the illusion that you are getting it in your name....if the building is sold out you have a 49% chance of getting that unit in your name..to me thats just not good enough..it is a crap shoot...who wants to do business under those terms...i went to their office with 2 buyers and we laughed and walked away when they told us how they do business....

Now with the thai company regulations exposed it is crazy to not buy a condo in your own name...If you like that area so much buy a condo in jomtien plaza....last time I checked it was one of the only buildings still under 49% farang owned..whch means you can buy from a thai national and still put it in foreigner name......

[ThaiBob]

thai bob-----you are not one of the lucky 49% people...you have a contract to purchase a condo just like the rest of the people who bought in project 7..it doesnt matter the time frame you bought the unit...thats how they sell out the building..they give you the illusion that you are getting it in your name....if the building is sold out you have a 49% chance of getting that unit in your name..to me thats just not good enough..it is a crap shoot...who wants to do business under those terms...i went to their office with 2 buyers and we laughed and walked away when they told us how they do business....

Now with the thai company regulations exposed it is crazy to not buy a condo in your own name...If you like that area so much buy a condo in jomtien plaza....last time I checked it was one of the only buildings still under 49% farang owned..whch means you can buy from a thai national and still put it in foreigner name......

LOS NICK....Thanks for your reply. I will be in Pattaya this July and will investigate this thoroughly. I must say what you've said is contrary to what several friends who purchased units in earlier View Talay projects (VT 1 and 2) have told me. The registration process actually has some semblance of order. Upon project completion, VT releases the units (can be at their discretion) and identifies you as being among the 49% at which time you have a time frame (window) to register your property. If you are overseas and don't register promptly you could be SOL. The earlier contracts do have precedence. I try to put myself in View Talay's place. Would I "guarantee" the registration process of an independent government administrative agency which I can not control? Not hardly. What if foreign buyer doesn't register promptly? I have my reservations about all this and hope to get my questions answered when I visit.

[Dragonman]

thai bob-----you are not one of the lucky 49% people...you have a contract to purchase a condo just like the rest of the people who bought in project 7..it doesnt matter the time frame you bought the unit...thats how they sell out the building..they give you the illusion that you are getting it in your name....if the building is sold out you have a 49% chance of getting that unit in your name..to me thats just not good enough..it is a crap shoot...who wants to do business under those terms...i went to their office with 2 buyers and we laughed and walked away when they told us how they do business....

Now with the thai company regulations exposed it is crazy to not buy a condo in your own name...If you like that area so much buy a condo in jomtien plaza....last time I checked it was one of the only buildings still under 49% farang owned..whch means you can buy from a thai national and still put it in foreigner name......

LOS NICK....Thanks for your reply. I will be in Pattaya this July and will investigate this thoroughly. I must say what you've said is contrary to what several friends who purchased units in earlier View Talay projects (VT 1 and 2) have told me. The registration process actually has some semblance of order. Upon project completion, VT releases the units (can be at their discretion) and identifies you as being among the 49% at which time you have a time frame (window) to register your property. If you are overseas and don't register promptly you could be SOL. The earlier contracts do have precedence. I try to put myself in View Talay's place. Would I "guarantee" the registration process of an independent government administrative agency which I can not control? Not hardly. What if foreign buyer doesn't register promptly? I have my reservations about all this and hope to get my questions answered when I visit.

It would be easy to contractually agree to responsibility for registration at the Land Office. There are 2 requirements under the Condominium Act; 1. Proof from Condo Management of 49% limit. 2. Proof from you in form of Foreign Exchange Transaction Certificate. Responsibility for contractual performance is therefore cut and dry.

[ThaiBob]

quote:

It would be easy to contractually agree to responsibility for registration at the Land Office. There are 2 requirements under the Condominium Act; 1. Proof from Condo Management of 49% limit. 2. Proof from you in form of Foreign Exchange Transaction Certificate. Responsibility for contractual performance is therefore cut and dry.

What is #2 (Foreign Exchange Transaction Certificate)?

Edited June 11, 2006 by ThaiBob

[Sophon]

What is #2 (Foreign Exchange Transaction Certificate)?

It's a certificate issued by your bank confirming that the funds for the condo was transferred from abroad and exchanged to THB in Thailand. To get such a certificate the amount of the transfer needs to be in foreign currency (i.e. not THB) and the amount at least USD 20,000.

Sophon

[ThaiBob]

Thanks Sophon. My funds go directly to Thai Military Bank and View Talay does a monthly contract payment withdrawl. Getting this form will be no problem.

[David H]

Thanks Sophon. My funds go directly to Thai Military Bank and View Talay does a monthly contract payment withdrawl. Getting this form will be no problem.

Thai Bob, I'm with you I bought into view talay 6. I am making payments and i too want assurances that hte cond will be in my name. The question is what determines who will be part of the 49%. Does it go by the order of purchase, like the time the contract and deposit where initiated. Or is it something scary like when the final payment is made, hopefully not. I am very scared I would not have purchased a condo if i needed to form a company. Please let me know if you find out more. I am thinking of hiring a lawyer to get a paper stating that I am one of the 49% from view talay or i am backing out of the agreement.

[mbkudu]

A solution to all this confusion might be for the government to scrap the 49/51% regulation and let as many foreigners buy into a building as there are who want to, but all the ground floor units and land under it be kept in a Thai company name if they are so worried about it. The only reason why I bought a condo was because I was absolutely sure it was in my name. If there was any indication, such as these View Talay units in Pataya, that I could not have the title deed in my name, I wouldn't have done it.

[LOS NICK]

Thanks Sophon. My funds go directly to Thai Military Bank and View Talay does a monthly contract payment withdrawl. Getting this form will be no problem.

Thai Bob, I'm with you I bought into view talay 6. I am making payments and i too want assurances that hte cond will be in my name. The question is what determines who will be part of the 49%. Does it go by the order of purchase, like the time the contract and deposit where initiated. Or is it something scary like when the final payment is made, hopefully not. I am very scared I would not have purchased a condo if i needed to form a company. Please let me know if you find out more. I am thinking of hiring a lawyer to get a paper stating that I am one of the 49% from view talay or i am backing out of the agreement.

There are so many uneducated buyers here that are being taken advantage of..They have made purchases an still dont know where they stand..

As far view talay goes and I visited their offices twice with buyers this is what I recall them telling us..

we cannot put the condo purchase in your name now.When the project is complete you will be notified and then you can register your unit down at the land office in your name..

How will people be notified..I guess by mail..It is a plus to be living year round here in pattaya and be on top of the situation..If you are in your home country when the project is finished it is a big disadvantage.

AS I said before this is no way to purchase a condo.It is a huge risk.

If you are not lucky enough to be in the 49% that get their unit in their name you are in deep <deleted>.

View talay uses this method to sell condos giving the illusion to everyone that makes a purchase that they can put their condo in farang name.

Only 49% will be so lucky.

It is a sham

[ThaiBob]

Thanks Sophon. My funds go directly to Thai Military Bank and View Talay does a monthly contract payment withdrawl. Getting this form will be no problem.

Thai Bob, I'm with you I bought into view talay 6. I am making payments and i too want assurances that hte cond will be in my name. The question is what determines who will be part of the 49%. Does it go by the order of purchase, like the time the contract and deposit where initiated. Or is it something scary like when the final payment is made, hopefully not. I am very scared I would not have purchased a condo if i needed to form a company. Please let me know if you find out more. I am thinking of hiring a lawyer to get a paper stating that I am one of the 49% from view talay or i am backing out of the agreement.

I have concerns just like you. I want title in my own name and don't want to go the company route either (especially now). I have an early contract in View Talay 7. I've done the math and my contract number is in the top 10%, assuming all contracts were purchased by foreigners. You might do the same same calculation (it's simple to do). When you purchased you signed, dated and received your numbered contract. View Talay tracks the sale of foreign units by contract number (or date order) and issues the documents for registration at project completion the same way (assuming you met the terms of your contract). This is the way it was done with previous View Talay projects. View Talay 3 and View Talay 5 will be closing in a few months so we will have even more history shortly. I might add that when View Talay 2 units didn't qualify for the Section 2.2B exclusion of foreign ownership of a condominium unit (in 2004) because of a technicality, my friends were offered a full refund or formation of a Thai company at no cost. They went with the company. View Talay is a Thai company with a good track record and more projects in the works. Being Thai, they do not practice Western marketing methods and their communication skills need improving. No contract in English for example. I plan to talk with View Talay in July. I have friends in Pattaya who have been very helpful and keep me posted of any news. I will post anything I find that's important.

Edited June 16, 2006 by ThaiBob

[johng]

VT #7 will be built on the beach obscuring views from Jomtien Complex (the twin towers). There were rumors of law suits and issues with Planning Commission. Apparently all is well, sale signs are up and there is pile driving equipment on site. The start construction date schedule was late 2006 with completion late 2008.

Well I passed this site today... 9th of August... and the grass is grownig there very nicely indeed

No sign of pile driving or any other equipment work has not started.

[Nuff Said]

VT #7 will be built on the beach obscuring views from Jomtien Complex (the twin towers). There were rumors of law suits and issues with Planning Commission. Apparently all is well, sale signs are up and there is pile driving equipment on site. The start construction date schedule was late 2006 with completion late 2008.

Well I passed this site today... 9th of August... and the grass is grownig there very nicely indeed

No sign of pile driving or any other equipment work has not started.

On the board outside the View Talay Sales Office the reference to Project 7 has been rather crudely deleted. Whether this has been done by someone who is opposed to it's construction or by View Talay themselves isn't clear. The model of the project is still on display inside the office.

[Nuff Said]

I got a letter from the condo association telling the land office what belonged to who. The land office will NOT put your name on the chanote unless everything is proper and legal. I do have a friend who bought a condo in View Talay. He paid his down payment and when they were ready to go to the land office they informed him that the farang condo ownership had reached 49 percent farangs. They didn't want to refund his money and instead gave him a free Thai company so he could "OWN" his unit. I told him that I would have insisted on having my money back. They convinced him that the company was perfectly legal and that he had no worries.

DON'T pay anything until you know for sure you can own the unit freehold. Once they get a substancial amount of money from you it may be VERY difficult to get it back.

I presume that you are referring to View Talay Project 2A. This was to have been part of a government incentive (it finished over 2 years ago) which was applicable at the time of starting constrcution, allowing unlimited foreign ownership provided the developer registered its intention to be part of the scheme at least 12 months before the buildings anticipated registration.

View Talay 2A sold like hot cakes, quicker than 2B as it did not qualify for the scheme, and it seemed too good to be true. And it was for some. The Land Office were merrily accepting registrations in foreign names until the 49% cut off point was reached. They then said 'no more'. The problem was of View Talay's making, they had not registered the building to be part of the government incentive 12 months before it's anticipated registration. To appease the disappointed purchasers, one of whom I was representing because he was in the UK, View Talay offered either a free company set up with the annual balance sheet costs paid for 3 years, or a full refund. The option of a company or a full refund was made very clear to me. I broke the news to my friend in the UK, told him that was on the table and he accepted the company option.

[cejmcq]

I got a letter from the condo association telling the land office what belonged to who. The land office will NOT put your name on the chanote unless everything is proper and legal. I do have a friend who bought a condo in View Talay. He paid his down payment and when they were ready to go to the land office they informed him that the farang condo ownership had reached 49 percent farangs. They didn't want to refund his money and instead gave him a free Thai company so he could "OWN" his unit. I told him that I would have insisted on having my money back. They convinced him that the company was perfectly legal and that he had no worries.

DON'T pay anything until you know for sure you can own the unit freehold. Once they get a substancial amount of money from you it may be VERY difficult to get it back.

I presume that you are referring to View Talay Project 2A. This was to have been part of a government incentive (it finished over 2 years ago) which was applicable at the time of starting constrcution, allowing unlimited foreign ownership provided the developer registered its intention to be part of the scheme at least 12 months before the buildings anticipated registration.

View Talay 2A sold like hot cakes, quicker than 2B as it did not qualify for the scheme, and it seemed too good to be true. And it was for some. The Land Office were merrily accepting registrations in foreign names until the 49% cut off point was reached. They then said 'no more'. The problem was of View Talay's making, they had not registered the building to be part of the government incentive 12 months before it's anticipated registration. To appease the disappointed purchasers, one of whom I was representing because he was in the UK, View Talay offered either a free company set up with the annual balance sheet costs paid for 3 years, or a full refund. The option of a company or a full refund was made very clear to me. I broke the news to my friend in the UK, told him that was on the table and he accepted the company option.

I pre-purchased at VT 2A before the first pile was driven and was assured I was within the 49% foreign rule. I live here now and the only thing I can read in my "Blue Books" is my name in English so I know they are in my name.

My experience with other condo projects since then, has been when the developer reaches the 49% threshold of foreign ownership no more sales are made. At that point the only other sales are either to Thais, companies, or resales by foreigner to foreigner. Much of which was seen with the Northshore project, with many of the more desirable corner units flipping at very high rates of return some multiple times prior to the recent completion.