The lack of eye contact

[DLP]

I just wear dark glasses then no one knows where i am looking.

[amse]

I'm a female farang and have been here for 12 years, and find the total opposite. For the most part it depends on how you approach the Thai's, as for myself it's always with a smile and a nice comment about how nicely their dressed, their beautiful baby & etc. When driving my car I smile and give a friendly nod to everyone, in addition to a wave. I'm also a retired teacher, so I get alot of respect from mostly everyone. I always look directly in their eyes while smileing, and just about 100% of the time get a friendly responce.

Edited March 29, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed, please do not make it a habit to post in bold fonts.

[dao16]

I'm a female farang and have been here for 12 years, and find the total opposite. For the most part it depends on how you approach the Thai's, as for myself it's always with a smile and a nice comment about how nicely their dressed, their beautiful baby & etc. When driving my car I smile and give a friendly nod to everyone, in addition to a wave. I'm also a retired teacher, so I get alot of respect from mostly everyone. I always look directly in their eyes while smileing, and just about 100% of the time get a friendly responce.

Yeah, this is totally true. I know that sometimes I roll up on a motorbike to a place I haven't been before and they sort of have stone faces. All it takes it a big smile, a sawaddee krap and possibly a wai and they beam and the tone is set. A scowl met with a scowl will not result in a smile.

[willyumiii]

I, the OP, have also been a teacher here in the past and am well known, liked and respected in the community.

Many people know who I am, where I am from and what I do,

Many of these people I have never even met before, but they know me!.

I haven't been a teacher for a over a year now and I am still constantly greeted by yells of "Hello Teacher!" as I drive my bike in the big village I use to teach in.

Men are constantly offering me " Teacher,whiskey Thai ?" as I walk by.

I still reply " Teacher mow, mai dee...mai kru, pkab kune krup"

Always answered with a laugh and a smile.

It is not that people do not like me, I think I am rather popular...the pet farang so to speak.

I do not smell or look or dress bad.

Many Thais do look me in the eye while talking.

It's the ones that will not make eye contact ( some of who I know and even love) that are the difficulty for me.

Not knowing if they are listening to me or talking to me when trying to converse with them is just a little unsettling.

It's not a huge issue for me, but I was wondering if others have had the same experience.

Thanks again for all of the good replies!

[sdanielmcev]

Are you talking eye-contact, or a stare-down? I find westerners' habit of looking "straight in the eye" annoying. I learned to smile with my eyes a long time ago.

[verywierd]

In most Asian countries (and that is a lot of people), direct sustained eye contact of one man with another is considered hostile or insulting.

"He stared at me", meaning someone made unwelcome eye contact, is often given by street gangs as a reason for the breakout of deadly fights or assaults.

However a quick meeting of the eyes accompanied with a smile and raising of the eyebrows is a greeting amongst friends.

Is there potential for misunderstanding? Yes, definitely. Therefore it is better not to stare people in the eye unless you are sure they won't take offence. Local employees, sales staff, street vendors etc may have no choice but to accept your behaviour, but that does not mean that they are comfortable with it, and may leave them with the impression of a rude and even aggressive/threatening foreigner.

Is it so difficult to believe or accept that other cultures might have different customs?

[cooked]

..and then again you have the Chinese-Thais, what a stony faced uncommunicative and unfriendly lot many of them are, not just with Farangs, with other Thais also.

[Thongkorn]

Usually if they cannot look you in the eyes they are not genuine.

[thailiketoo]

Usually if they cannot look you in the eyes they are not genuine.

Ya ever been to a go go club? Har de har har.......

Or hair salon...........

Or Used car lot............

Or .............. Thai women are the best actresses I have ever met. Some performances put the ladies who win the Oscars to shame...

[nithisa78]

Not really. When Thai men are looking and we're talking . . . there is no small threats of fight. Are you interesting? rhetorical

[nithisa78]

Usually if they cannot look you in the eyes they are not genuine.

Don't find you interesting................

[donniereadit]

I know that Thai females will not eyeball you unless they really like you (non-prostitute type).

With other dudes it's is a sort of extroverted type-a thing you find in the western business world that's not really appropriate for asia.

All those things you learned to do in a job interview in the west, you have to re-learn here.

After living here awhile I now find the brash eye contact/staring embarrassing coming from other westerners where I never was in the West. For example, in a public venue like when I enter a restaurant.

There is also the thing with the French who overtly stare at your food when it's served. Sometimes the whole table next to you turning around and staring for quite awhile and "raping your food" as I call it.

Edited March 29, 2014 by donniereadit

[Shaunduhpostman]

It's just another one of those things Thais are free to do in their culture, not make eye contact or not communicate at all for that matter if they don't want to. And no matter how important it might be to do so or how easy. Eye contact is just one of many things in the communication tool box that is optional here. Lack of eye contact is annoying to us because we are raised thinking we don't have the option of not engaging via eye contact or in other ways unless there is a serious problem.

Thais have that right to blow you off and be left in peace, that's the culture. And who can blame them for thinking this way? The society is full of self-serving sociopathic superiors who could care less about anyone but number one and reserve the right to ask their inferiors to do anything. It is just not Mr. Roger's neighborhood round here. So, it is a kind of aggressive thing to insist on communicating, which I know I cannot help but do, particularly if the situation requires it and people are going to blow you off because they would rather space out. But it is one of the few means they have of self protection, the way I see it, it's what has served them in absence of rule of law or in absence of leaders and important people who have developed minimal boundaries with regards to respecting the rights, needs, wishes of others.

Tho that said, seems to me it is mostly the pathologically shy and insecure who won't make eye contact. The society allows many more of those people to enter into the main stream than would in many other socities around the world. Most people, I find, do look me in the eye enough. It's not our problem, is what I always tell myself. If someone doesn't want to make eye contact or communicate, I let it go, there's plenty of others who do.

With Isaan people there are plenty who will not respond verbally as well as not making eye contact when you might think they should. For example, to indicate that they have heard what was said. You will get it with many Bangkok taxi drivers, many of whom are from Isaan, as you probably know. You tell them where you are going and there is no acknowledgement of having heard. Some can even get annoyed when you repeat and snap, "I already know!"

My step-daughter and her kids are in the not answering or making eye contact habit. "Are you going home now," I ask. No answer and no eye contact. It is supposed to mean yes, or to indicate that what I think is correct, according to my step-daughter. I have politely explained many times how that doesn't work and it just looks as tho you haven't heard me, to almost no avail. I will ask the kids about what they are doing when I see them playing and doing something and it is like pulling teeth. I am trying to just open up a chance to share and what not, but I am not trusted at all it seems. I am seen as an obtrusion and nothing more. I know that there is no harm meant but It's more their loss, I really don't have the patience to be bothered that much.

My wife who spent many years in Bangkok knows this is not any way for the kids to grow up responding to people, so she is working on them. When she sees them doing it she insists they answer and look at who is speaking, at least look in their general direction. I just let it go because I no longer see it as anything I can influence nor do i have anything to do with it. My wife and I agree it contributes to a kind of self-absorbtion that creates all kinds of problems for self and others and she does not want the kids to grow up being these self-absorbed lose-face-at-a-drop-of-the-hat types who too spoiled to work with or relate with others in any way other than subservient-command position relations. She wants the kids to be able to function in a better Thailand to have a strong enough personality that they could listen and communicate well with others, get along and be generally helpful and productive. My wife is a rare person these days, I know.

But I am more cynical. Unfortunately the daughter has no experience of anything beyond her village and will not be able to help the kids look people in the eye, and generally try and communicate. I've seen some progress in that one of the kids is learning to ask for things he needs at age 9. The other who is 12 will not ask for anything ever. He's a sweet kid but there is this brooding, silent, sad person who doesn't talk much developing and growing up to being maybe a sulky passive aggressive adult.

There are many cases where people in Thailand reserve the right not to know, not to make the connection. It makes everyone's life in the office, school and home much more difficult and makes us all vulnerable to fighting and misunderstandings and being gossiped about to name just a few. I vascillate between thinking it is their right and saying that it is their right only to a point to refuse to communicate. I think the huge problems we see in this country are not only down to the poor education system but just the sense that it's OK to totally shut off communication.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Shaunduhpostman

[glegolo]

I surely do not know if this is a regional "symton" or not. But where I live up in isaan, people are acting EXACTLY like they do back home in Sweden. I or they talk, and we have a steady eye-contact. My personal view of this is that thai maybe avoid eyecontact when they find the falang a bit trashy or something like that.

Anyhow I do NOT regognize this behavoir at all. Here in isaan at least, we can talk to each other without these problems...

Glegolo

[whaleboneman]

my neighbour (male) tells me he's afraid when i look him in the eye. no kidding. u gotta love them thais!

Well I must say your eyes are kind of scary.

[poweratradio]

Look the other way mate, move on.

Your absolutely correct. Don't know where this guy has been or where is wife got her ideas but I think they both need their eyes checked and judge again.

Eye contact being a fight challenge LOL

[poweratradio]

It's just another one of those things Thais are free to do in their culture, not make eye contact or not communicate at all for that matter if they don't want to. And no matter how important it might be to do so or how easy. Eye contact is just one of many things in the communication tool box that is optional here. Lack of eye contact is annoying to us because we are raised thinking we don't have the option of not engaging via eye contact or in other ways unless there is a serious problem.

Thais have that right to blow you off and be left in peace, that's the culture. And who can blame them for thinking this way? The society is full of self-serving sociopathic superiors who could care less about anyone but number one and reserve the right to ask their inferiors to do anything. It is just not Mr. Roger's neighborhood round here. So, it is a kind of aggressive thing to insist on communicating, which I know I cannot help but do, particularly if the situation requires it and people are going to blow you off because they would rather space out. But it is one of the few means they have of self protection, the way I see it, it's what has served them in absence of rule of law or in absence of leaders and important people who have developed minimal boundaries with regards to respecting the rights, needs, wishes of others.

Tho that said, seems to me it is mostly the pathologically shy and insecure who won't make eye contact. The society allows many more of those people to enter into the main stream than would in many other socities around the world. Most people, I find, do look me in the eye enough. It's not our problem, is what I always tell myself. If someone doesn't want to make eye contact or communicate, I let it go, there's plenty of others who do.

With Isaan people there are plenty who will not respond verbally as well as not making eye contact when you might think they should. For example, to indicate that they have heard what was said. You will get it with many Bangkok taxi drivers, many of whom are from Isaan, as you probably know. You tell them where you are going and there is no acknowledgement of having heard. Some can even get annoyed when you repeat and snap, "I already know!"

My step-daughter and her kids are in the not answering or making eye contact habit. "Are you going home now," I ask. No answer and no eye contact. It is supposed to mean yes, or to indicate that what I think is correct, according to my step-daughter. I have politely explained many times how that doesn't work and it just looks as tho you haven't heard me, to almost no avail. I will ask the kids about what they are doing when I see them playing and doing something and it is like pulling teeth. I am trying to just open up a chance to share and what not, but I am not trusted at all it seems. I am seen as an obtrusion and nothing more. I know that there is no harm meant but It's more their loss, I really don't have the patience to be bothered that much.

My wife who spent many years in Bangkok knows this is not any way for the kids to grow up responding to people, so she is working on them. When she sees them doing it she insists they answer and look at who is speaking, at least look in their general direction. I just let it go because I no longer see it as anything I can influence nor do i have anything to do with it. My wife and I agree it contributes to a kind of self-absorbtion that creates all kinds of problems for self and others and she does not want the kids to grow up being these self-absorbed lose-face-at-a-drop-of-the-hat types who too spoiled to work with or relate with others in any way other than subservient-command position relations. She wants the kids to be able to function in a better Thailand to have a strong enough personality that they could listen and communicate well with others, get along and be generally helpful and productive. My wife is a rare person these days, I know.

But I am more cynical. Unfortunately the daughter has no experience of anything beyond her village and will not be able to help the kids look people in the eye, and generally try and communicate. I've seen some progress in that one of the kids is learning to ask for things he needs at age 9. The other who is 12 will not ask for anything ever. He's a sweet kid but there is this brooding, silent, sad person who doesn't talk much developing and growing up to being maybe a sulky passive aggressive adult.

There are many cases where people in Thailand reserve the right not to know, not to make the connection. It makes everyone's life in the office, school and home much more difficult and makes us all vulnerable to fighting and misunderstandings and being gossiped about to name just a few. I vascillate between thinking it is their right and saying that it is their right only to a point to refuse to communicate. I think the huge problems we see in this country are not only down to the poor education system but just the sense that it's OK to totally shut off communication.

HA HA HA. THE PROFESSOR SPEAKS. Who gives a rats a**. To each his own.

[wym]

How profound, you obviously want to show off, a real turn of phrase you have there.

[Skint]

Lack of eye contact = telling porkies

[brianP]

I have some billy bob novelty teeth with gums. I keep them in my top pocket and put them in when i encounter shy Thais, or meeting the wife's friends and relatives. These fukker-rot teeth will make the boldest Thai's divert the eyes instantly,until i pop them out and beam a true Yankee smile. A great icebreaker, even though a 4 year old took a pop at me once.

[smotherb]

Eye contact during communication has a lot to do with your culture. Westerners tend to feel lack of eye contact is disrespectful while Eaterners feel eye contact is confrontational-- just a difference of behavioral norm. see https://sites.google.com/site/nonverbalcommunicationportal/forms-of-nonverbal-communication/eye-contact

[spidermike007]

Thais do not like direct confrontation.

So it is true then will not often look you directly in the eye when speaking to you, especially if you seem to be confrontational with them or challanging them.

It has to do with the concept of "face" which can be important in Thai (and other Asian also) cultures.

Many foreigners misunderstand about "face".

Their are two aspects to it.

One is for the Asian person not to be wrong.

But the other, and equally importan part of "face" is that if you know the person you are taliking with is wrong, challaging him or her directly is also you losing "face".

So, for that reason, mzny Thais dealing with foriegners will avoid eye-too-eye contact .... to avoid either themselves losing "face' or equally important the foriegner losing "face" by using a confrontational stance (eye-to-eye contact).

For many "well mannerd" Thais (as well as other Asians) a direct confortational stance is "rude"

That's why they tend to avoid an "eye to eye" contact.

Face is mostly about cowardice. It is a device many Asian people use, to avoid looking within, and discovering who they really are. It prevents the solving of problems, destroys relationships, nips spiritual growth in the bud, prevents personal growth, and in general is a boil on the face of Asia. Only by looking within, analyzing ones self, admitting wrong, and taking responsibility, can a person improve, and make a change for the better. Face eliminates all of this. It is a terribly destructive tendency, and holds Asia back. Who cares what others think of you? Why such an obsession with appearances? What trifling BS.

[smileydude]

In Thai culture prolonged eye contact is not normally practiced. It could be interpreted as either confrontational, rude, nutty, or enamored. The acceptable length is further shortened by the younger person if conversing with someone significantly older as it is considered disrespectful and challenging authority.

The only time I make prolonged eye contact is when talking with an attractive person of the opposite sex as I am checking out her pupils to see if they're dilated as a sign of interest as I am lousy at reading the other signs.

[thailiketoo]

Thais do not like direct confrontation.

So it is true then will not often look you directly in the eye when speaking to you, especially if you seem to be confrontational with them or challanging them.

It has to do with the concept of "face" which can be important in Thai (and other Asian also) cultures.

Many foreigners misunderstand about "face".

Their are two aspects to it.

One is for the Asian person not to be wrong.

But the other, and equally importan part of "face" is that if you know the person you are taliking with is wrong, challaging him or her directly is also you losing "face".

So, for that reason, mzny Thais dealing with foriegners will avoid eye-too-eye contact .... to avoid either themselves losing "face' or equally important the foriegner losing "face" by using a confrontational stance (eye-to-eye contact).

For many "well mannerd" Thais (as well as other Asians) a direct confortational stance is "rude"

That's why they tend to avoid an "eye to eye" contact.

Face is mostly about cowardice. It is a device many Asian people use, to avoid looking within, and discovering who they really are. It prevents the solving of problems, destroys relationships, nips spiritual growth in the bud, prevents personal growth, and in general is a boil on the face of Asia. Only by looking within, analyzing ones self, admitting wrong, and taking responsibility, can a person improve, and make a change for the better. Face eliminates all of this. It is a terribly destructive tendency, and holds Asia back. Who cares what others think of you? Why such an obsession with appearances? What trifling BS.

Well lets see where was China economically in 1945 and where is it now? China is in Asia as I remember my Thai geography lessons. So you think Asians are cowards? You think Asians have done worse than the West economically? I think you need to look within, analyze yourself admits rights and wrongs and ask who is Rolls Royce's biggest market.

China Tops U.S. as Rolls-Royce's Biggest Market - China Real Time ...

blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/.../china-tops-u-s-as-rolls-royces-biggest-ma...‎

Jan 10, 2014 - China is now the world's biggest market for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, ... In 2013, the British-made brand synonymous with luxury sold 3,630 cars ...

However you did write, "Face is mostly about cowardice. It is a device many Asian people use, to avoid looking within, and discovering who they really are. It prevents the solving of problems, destroys relationships, nips spiritual growth in the bud, prevents personal growth, and in general is a boil on the face of Asia." Congrats. That is the most racist anti Asian post I have read on Thai Visa in quite a while. Did I use the correct word, "racist." Are Asian people a race?

Edited March 30, 2014 by thailiketoo

[KonaRain]

I lived in an Asian culture, Hawaii..lots of eye contact in Thailand..or not. We lived with a govt. Architect in Chaing Mai, we looked each other in da eye mos' times.

Smiling at strangers works. Pointing at my Hawaii shirt..maybe I'm autistic..didn't make any bars..they know lots of our oldies..sing harmony..Aloha! Back soon..

[DrTuner]

Never noticed. I'm not in the habit of staring people to try to figure out what's inside their heads, either. Actions will show what was in there, why bother trying to decipher what's behind the fake face.

[sirchai]

It's very similar to some foreigners who believe Thai females don't like to kiss.Do you really make eye contact with people you don't want to talk to?

[thepool]

Some hints on cultural differences

http://healthvermont.gov/family/toolkit/tools%5CF-6%20Cultural%20Differences%20in%20Nonverbal%20Communic.pdf

[spidermike007]

Thais do not like direct confrontation.

So it is true then will not often look you directly in the eye when speaking to you, especially if you seem to be confrontational with them or challanging them.

It has to do with the concept of "face" which can be important in Thai (and other Asian also) cultures.

Many foreigners misunderstand about "face".

Their are two aspects to it.

One is for the Asian person not to be wrong.

But the other, and equally importan part of "face" is that if you know the person you are taliking with is wrong, challaging him or her directly is also you losing "face".

So, for that reason, mzny Thais dealing with foriegners will avoid eye-too-eye contact .... to avoid either themselves losing "face' or equally important the foriegner losing "face" by using a confrontational stance (eye-to-eye contact).

For many "well mannerd" Thais (as well as other Asians) a direct confortational stance is "rude"

That's why they tend to avoid an "eye to eye" contact.

Face is mostly about cowardice. It is a device many Asian people use, to avoid looking within, and discovering who they really are. It prevents the solving of problems, destroys relationships, nips spiritual growth in the bud, prevents personal growth, and in general is a boil on the face of Asia. Only by looking within, analyzing ones self, admitting wrong, and taking responsibility, can a person improve, and make a change for the better. Face eliminates all of this. It is a terribly destructive tendency, and holds Asia back. Who cares what others think of you? Why such an obsession with appearances? What trifling BS.

Well lets see where was China economically in 1945 and where is it now? China is in Asia as I remember my Thai geography lessons. So you think Asians are cowards? You think Asians have done worse than the West economically? I think you need to look within, analyze yourself admits rights and wrongs and ask who is Rolls Royce's biggest market.

China Tops U.S. as Rolls-Royce's Biggest Market - China Real Time ...

blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/.../china-tops-u-s-as-rolls-royces-biggest-ma...‎

Jan 10, 2014 - China is now the world's biggest market for Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, ... In 2013, the British-made brand synonymous with luxury sold 3,630 cars ...

However you did write, "Face is mostly about cowardice. It is a device many Asian people use, to avoid looking within, and discovering who they really are. It prevents the solving of problems, destroys relationships, nips spiritual growth in the bud, prevents personal growth, and in general is a boil on the face of Asia." Congrats. That is the most racist anti Asian post I have read on Thai Visa in quite a while. Did I use the correct word, "racist." Are Asian people a race?

I disagree. I think Asian people are amazing on so many levels. I was ONLY addressing the ability to analyze and dissect ones self, and to communicate, and effectively solve issues and problems. You mention China, but you only mention their economy. What I was addressing was far more personal. It goes to the heart of what this thread was all about. Ask me if I care about rolls royce sales. Ask me if I think the people buying those cars are able to solve personal problems by looking within. I think you lost the thread.

[tyler2208]

One common form of non-verbal communication is known in Thai as yak kiu. This is a gesture of confirmation or agreement which involves raising the eyebrows up and down (yak = move up and down; kiu = eyebrows). For example, if two friends are talking and one suggests to the other that they should go to the cinema to watch a movie, the other friend may yak kiu. The wiggly eyebrows are often accompanied with a slight smile which makes it even more endearing. As a non-Thai theres no need to start practicing your yak kiu skills. A simple yes or OK will serve a similar purpose, but at least youll know what the deal is with the wiggly eyebrows if you notice Thai people doing it.

http://www.thaizer.com/culture-shock/thai-body-language-saying-it-with-the-eyebrows/

Thai people make eye contact all the time. If you don't notice it means you don't live in Thailand or if Thais don't make eye contact with you something else is wrong. I would check my deodorant, cut down on dairy products and get some new clothes.

and you should check your thai translations.

for a start the word your looking for is ยก / yok not yak

secondly ยก/yok means to lift, not to move something up and down.

ยก คิ้ว / yok kiu would be correct

not "yak kiu" as you stated.

surprising, as you have claimed to be fluent in both spoken and written thai on some of your previous posts.

maybe your just having a bad day