Kenney: No discussion with Thailand on access to military bases

[Thai at Heart]

To buote name="blazes" post="7628356" timestamp="1396170348"]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

You've got that backwards. If pitting the West/US against China in Thailand politics, then the Shinawatatra government is aligned with the West/US and the Thai army/royalists with China.

He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Shows an ignorance of why the US was in Vietnam. President Eisenhower was honest enough to admit that the US needed Vietnamese tungsten supplies.

Fro the masses the invasion of Vietnam was dressed up as an anti-communist crusade. Ho Chi Minh was hostile to China, and received aid only from the Soviet Union.

The Yanks have "administered "Thailand since the defeat of the Japanese in WW2 .

Oh please. Tungsten. If there hadn't been an intervention, there would have been a free run to the end of the Malay peninsular. Without the intervention of america Thailand and the rest of south east Asia would be a very different place.

How did america manage without those vital tungsten deposits?

American "intervention" you call it, lol. Invasion is the word you seek, mate. And it was an invasion that ended ignominiously on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon. Now, I wonder how it was that all those Vietnamese failed to accept Coca-Cola democracy and chose instead self-determination.

Long and short, American "interventionism" has resulted in widespread misery and death (how many dead in Iraq after Cheney and Rumsfeldt had finished with them?)

If America would return to isolationism and abandon their imperialist aims (driven by the military/industrial complex - Eisenhower again), they would be a much greater force for good in the world.j

Naive in the extreme.

[americaninbangkok]

And it was an invasion that ended ignominiously on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon.

If you're talking about the evacuation during the fall of Saigon, that was not the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon. Common misbelief.

[ehw200]

I belive Cambodia said it best about 2 years ago

when China give us money there are no strings attached,,,unlike some other country we know

I live in a latin American country that takes money from the USA,,,when they say jump they jump

I feel my personal rights and freedoms are controlled by the USA in these countries

I decided to move to Asia to get out from underneath the US umbrella,,,now they seem to wnt to follow me here

do not let them in,,the same crap will happen here and they will end up dictating to Asia

and do not think for a minute they have not committed attrocities in latin America,,ven if they "never happened"

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Thai at heart, C'mon you know that stating the obvious is going to ruffle some feathers here on thaivisa forum. As far as Thailand goes it was the U.S.'s invovement in Vietnam that built up the infrastructure in Thailand and made it possible for Thailand to be transformed from an isolationist 3rd world country, to an economic force to reckoned with in SE Asia. As far as the U.S. "meddling" in SE Asia goes, if the U.S. were to not "meddle" in SE Asia then most if not all of SE Asian nations would become economic vassels of China eventually. Here's some advice for our "America haters" out there on thaivisa, be careful what you wish for because you may very well get it!

[Cricketnut]

I don't know about the rest, but Australia now has U.S forces stationed in the top end , They use the naval bases and the U.S Air-force are in and out more times than I have had breakfasts, the reasoning for is that they required a reliable partner to keep an eye on the Dear Chairman north of Thailand.

Yep nearly 4000 troops in Darwin. None to popular with the local boys up there either....

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Publicus]

I belive Cambodia said it best about 2 years ago

when China give us money there are no strings attached,,,unlike some other country we know

I live in a latin American country that takes money from the USA,,,when they say jump they jump

I feel my personal rights and freedoms are controlled by the USA in these countries

I decided to move to Asia to get out from underneath the US umbrella,,,now they seem to wnt to follow me here

do not let them in,,the same crap will happen here and they will end up dictating to Asia

and do not think for a minute they have not committed attrocities in latin America,,ven if they "never happened"

Some people need desperately to learn about the real world.

Beijing wants your vote at the UN, for itself, for Russia and for every brutal dictatorship south of the equator, and a bit north of it too. Beijing wants to own your oil, your farmland and all of your other natural resources. Beijing wants you to pressure Japan about the Senkaku islands and to pressure the Philippines to surrender its EEZ. Beijing wants you to report only "good" news about the CCP-PRC in your state controlled media and to trash the United States, India, the EU and to present North Korea to your people in a "good" light.

Among the votes at the UN Beijing wants from every brutal dictator kleptocrat in Asia is for Beijing to gain a seat on the Human Rights Commission, which last year it did grab for itself and now sits as a member of the UNHRC. Yet Beijing is boycotting the UN Tribunal on the International Law of the Sea in the case brought against it by the Philippines because Beijing knows it will lose the case, this despite Beijing being a signatory to the ICLOS. (When Beijing signed the ICLOS it wrote the caveat that nothing applies to the Boyz in Beijing if they decide they don't want it to apply to them.)

And I don't know who might be following you around, but by the time you set out for SE Asia the United States had already been here for more than an appreciable period of time, World War II especially but certainly not exclusively. Whatever it is from which you are continually yet less than successfully trying to escape, I wish you good luck with it.

[Publicus]

I don't know about the rest, but Australia now has U.S forces stationed in the top end , They use the naval bases and the U.S Air-force are in and out more times than I have had breakfasts, the reasoning for is that they required a reliable partner to keep an eye on the Dear Chairman north of Thailand.

Yep nearly 4000 troops in Darwin. None to popular with the local boys up there either....

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Darwin has a population?

[Cricketnut]

I don't know about the rest, but Australia now has U.S forces stationed in the top end , They use the naval bases and the U.S Air-force are in and out more times than I have had breakfasts, the reasoning for is that they required a reliable partner to keep an eye on the Dear Chairman north of Thailand.

Yep nearly 4000 troops in Darwin. None to popular with the local boys up there either....

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Darwin has a population?

I'm offended

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[dighambara]

The US has continually updated it's 'Status of Forces Agreement', so US forces use Thai Bases on a very regular basis.

There are regular deployments from the US to Thailand every other month...

[umbanda]

Very interesting report, at the same time Yingluck is asking the US to no to interfere in Thailand's elections...Just a "coincidence"?

[tomyummer]

Natural resources contracts is all the US needs and that's exactly what Amb. Kenney is securing. The military bases are secondary. You can at least try to sneak the gas and oil past the Chinese, but military bases will surely awake the dragon.

The Chinese on the other hand want the rail system to control logistics and trade routes up and down and throughout SEA.

Edited March 31, 2014 by tomyummer

[umbanda]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Thai at heart, C'mon you know that stating the obvious is going to ruffle some feathers here on thaivisa forum. As far as Thailand goes it was the U.S.'s invovement in Vietnam that built up the infrastructure in Thailand and made it possible for Thailand to be transformed from an isolationist 3rd world country, to an economic force to reckoned with in SE Asia. As far as the U.S. "meddling" in SE Asia goes, if the U.S. were to not "meddle" in SE Asia then most if not all of SE Asian nations would become economic vassels of China eventually. Here's some advice for our "America haters" out there on thaivisa, be careful what you wish for because you may very well get it!

What is wrong in protectIing China's interest? Brazil becomes part of the BRIC, an emergent economy, after getting some independence from the US monopoly and export's control. In the new Cold World in process, between the US and China, Russia, North Korea.....what Thailand will gain getting the US "protection"?...NOTHING......Just wait Thailand...China is preparing the big hit to the US economy...It is better to be with the winners, not with the losers...

[umbanda]

Natural resources contracts is all the US needs and that's exactly what Amb. Kenney is securing. The military bases are secondary. You can at least try to sneak the gas and oil past the Chinese, but military bases will surely awake the dragon.

The Chinese on the other hand want the rail system to control logistics and trade routes up and dow. And throughout SEA.

To "awake the dragon" placing US military bases in Asia, will be the same mistake that Japan did in "awaking the giant" attacking Pearl Harbor.....The "Giant" now is fighting with "amateurs"....after losing in Vietnam...and its economy and industrial power is in disgrace...

The US needs to awake again...but this time..... to understand that China is not Japan....and Russia is in the other side.....

Edited March 31, 2014 by umbanda

[jayboy]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

You've got that backwards. If pitting the West/US against China in Thailand politics, then the Shinawatatra government is aligned with the West/US and the Thai army/royalists with China.

The Democrats are also very much aligned with USA...Just recall the Victor Bout case where Abhisit sent him over to USA, braking the law, making Russia upset. And no one complained, neither the Shinawatra Party, nor any Democrats nor anyone else.

USA says "jump" and Thailand asks "how high".

But to be fair, I wouldn't speak about countries, I would speak about the regimes. It is not the USA or France or the population there who are looking out for wars, it is just a small ruling elite.

And you would suggest that Thailand should cave in to Russia whenever that country is "upset".You seem to have overlooked the fact that the US had a valid case against the arms dealer concerned.

But you are right the tide of anti Americanism is rising and it is not confined to the less sophisticated types.There are reasons enough for this (most notably the Iraq War) but in my experience those who demonise the US are saying as much about themselves as the object of their hate.

As for looking for wars I can understand the sentiment if related to George Bush Jnr.It doesn't really make any sense with Obama.

As to Kenney she doesn't seem that profound but I don't see why she has become an object of hate for many of the Suthep mobsters who accuse her of being pro Thaksin.As earlier noted it reveals more about them than the Ambassador.

Edited March 31, 2014 by jayboy

[Shancloudy]

Chinese are selfish, greedy and inconsiderate. We would rather to share the Spratly, a group of 250 uninhabitable islets to the U. S. ( because Americans are very close to the heart of the Filipinos ) than to let the Chinese to come and get it.

China has no one but itself to blame for the Philippines new willingness to welcome back the U.S. Military. Actually the Filipino citizen requested it to the government to let the U.S. Military to return to the Philippines which is my country has a small navy and air force and we just relying on support from the U.S. to modernize the military and upgrade the abilities of Philippine military. Many Filipino men are excited and wanted to join with them because we appreciate all the support of the U.S. government to the Philippines.

Maybe It will not stop China from its bullying tactics, but it will become more cautious and might exercise self-restraint due to the U.S. presence.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[blazes]

And it was an invasion that ended ignominiously on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon.

If you're talking about the evacuation during the fall of Saigon, that was not the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon. Common misbelief.

WhatEVer.......Ignominy, disgrace, humiliation....leading to imperialistic "road rage" in Iraq, Afghanistan, and the lies, lies, lies of Weapons of Mass Destruction, but thankfully there are people like Edward Snowden courageous enough to expose all the lies and the contempt for so-called allies....

[Yahooka]

I belive Cambodia said it best about 2 years ago

when China give us money there are no strings attached,,,unlike some other country we know

I live in a latin American country that takes money from the USA,,,when they say jump they jump

I feel my personal rights and freedoms are controlled by the USA in these countries

I decided to move to Asia to get out from underneath the US umbrella,,,now they seem to wnt to follow me here

do not let them in,,the same crap will happen here and they will end up dictating to Asia

and do not think for a minute they have not committed attrocities in latin America,,ven if they "never happened"

Countries like Cambodia will soon find out that there is more than one string attached. The Chinese are known for many things..... Humanitarian work isn't one of them.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[h90]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

Keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia at a time whenThe Peoples Republic of China has laid sole authority over the entire South China Sea? Hmm, sorry, I disagree. I would favor the nations having had their own South China Sea claims abrogated to collectively and individually take the issue to international judicial forums. I realize China opposes this, and for obvious reasons. Hmmm, wait another minute, I thought the Thaksin camp was the puppet of the West, now it is Suthep and his crew who are the puppets....I am so confused. So, all are puppets of the West?!

I would just add Asean positively and definitely wants the USA here to actively balance the increasing impact of Beijing on the region. This would be true even if Beijing were not the Neighbor From Hell, so it's especially true given Beijing summarily and cavalierly had decided to in fact become the Neighbor From Hell. It's been true in China for thousands of years that the big fish never ever pass on gulping down every small fish, every time, always.

U.S. Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, talks with Thailand's joint chiefs during a visit in Bangkok, June 5, 2012

More immediately however, which side in Bangkok has been regularly gathering outside the U.S. Embassy & Residence demanding that Amb Kenney be recalled. Which side is presenting letters and petitions to Western embassies to include the U.S. mission in Bangkok? Which same side of the current and ongoing fiasco in Thailand wants Prez Obama to recall his ambassador, i.e., for Prez Obama to recall his own Thailand policy. Let's just say the PCAD / PDRC was not on Prez Obama's Christmas Card List of just several months ago. Easter in the White House isn't looking too good either for Suthep, the PDRC, Abhisit, the DP and the old guard of Thailand.

The problem is this idea that by being allied with someone you are being disloyal. Unfortunately this desire to play both sides of fence eventually hurts Thailand because everyone.works out that they are lying a little bit to everyone.

Thailand likes to think they can control the agenda with everyone. Whilst dealing with the USA , the USA doesn't ask much so its easy. Try to play the chinese diplomatically, and they expect something real I return.

The Chinese would eat Thailand in a moment.

Playing the superpowers against each other was always done....who offers more who I support.....

[Thai at Heart]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Thai at heart, C'mon you know that stating the obvious is going to ruffle some feathers here on thaivisa forum. As far as Thailand goes it was the U.S.'s invovement in Vietnam that built up the infrastructure in Thailand and made it possible for Thailand to be transformed from an isolationist 3rd world country, to an economic force to reckoned with in SE Asia. As far as the U.S. "meddling" in SE Asia goes, if the U.S. were to not "meddle" in SE Asia then most if not all of SE Asian nations would become economic vassels of China eventually. Here's some advice for our "America haters" out there on thaivisa, be careful what you wish for because you may very well get it!

What is wrong in protectIing China's interest? Brazil becomes part of the BRIC, an emergent economy, after getting some independence from the US monopoly and export's control. In the new Cold World in process, between the US and China, Russia, North Korea.....what Thailand will gain getting the US "protection"?...NOTHING......Just wait Thailand...China is preparing the big hit to the US economy...It is better to be with the winners, not with the losers...

Japan and the USA are the two single.largest investors into Thailand.. I suggest that millionsnog Thais get fed by this.. So yes. Thailand gets quite a lot by being friends with these two.

Of course, if Thailand had preferred they could have signed up to the odd.purge and a great leap forward too.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[Thai at Heart]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

Keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia at a time whenThe Peoples Republic of China has laid sole authority over the entire South China Sea? Hmm, sorry, I disagree. I would favor the nations having had their own South China Sea claims abrogated to collectively and individually take the issue to international judicial forums. I realize China opposes this, and for obvious reasons. Hmmm, wait another minute, I thought the Thaksin camp was the puppet of the West, now it is Suthep and his crew who are the puppets....I am so confused. So, all are puppets of the West?!

I would just add Asean positively and definitely wants the USA here to actively balance the increasing impact of Beijing on the region. This would be true even if Beijing were not the Neighbor From Hell, so it's especially true given Beijing summarily and cavalierly had decided to in fact become the Neighbor From Hell. It's been true in China for thousands of years that the big fish never ever pass on gulping down every small fish, every time, always.

U.S. Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, talks with Thailand's joint chiefs during a visit in Bangkok, June 5, 2012

More immediately however, which side in Bangkok has been regularly gathering outside the U.S. Embassy & Residence demanding that Amb Kenney be recalled. Which side is presenting letters and petitions to Western embassies to include the U.S. mission in Bangkok? Which same side of the current and ongoing fiasco in Thailand wants Prez Obama to recall his ambassador, i.e., for Prez Obama to recall his own Thailand policy. Let's just say the PCAD / PDRC was not on Prez Obama's Christmas Card List of just several months ago. Easter in the White House isn't looking too good either for Suthep, the PDRC, Abhisit, the DP and the old guard of Thailand.

The problem is this idea that by being allied with someone you are being disloyal. Unfortunately this desire to play both sides of fence eventually hurts Thailand because everyone.works out that they are lying a little bit to everyone.

Thailand likes to think they can control the agenda with everyone. Whilst dealing with the USA , the USA doesn't ask much so its easy. Try to play the chinese diplomatically, and they expect something real I return.

The Chinese would eat Thailand in a moment.

Playing the superpowers against each other was always done....who offers more who I support.....

Well these days its not so easy. And whoever said Chinese money comes with no strings is foolish. Just look at Africa.

[Publicus]

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He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Thai at heart, C'mon you know that stating the obvious is going to ruffle some feathers here on thaivisa forum. As far as Thailand goes it was the U.S.'s invovement in Vietnam that built up the infrastructure in Thailand and made it possible for Thailand to be transformed from an isolationist 3rd world country, to an economic force to reckoned with in SE Asia. As far as the U.S. "meddling" in SE Asia goes, if the U.S. were to not "meddle" in SE Asia then most if not all of SE Asian nations would become economic vassels of China eventually. Here's some advice for our "America haters" out there on thaivisa, be careful what you wish for because you may very well get it!

What is wrong in protectIing China's interest? Brazil becomes part of the BRIC, an emergent economy, after getting some independence from the US monopoly and export's control. In the new Cold World in process, between the US and China, Russia, North Korea.....what Thailand will gain getting the US "protection"?...NOTHING......Just wait Thailand...China is preparing the big hit to the US economy...It is better to be with the winners, not with the losers...

You quote the posters blazes, Thai at Heart, Vegas Vic.

However, I wrote the post you erroneously attribute to blazes.

I'm well aware the editing process is cumbersome and awkward, so I point out the mixup that occurred due to your editing (too many quoted posters to be able to make your post).

It's more of a TV technology problem, but we posters have to be especially aware of the problems posed when editing out too many quotes. Posters seem to be the only ones aware of this particular problem..

Edited March 31, 2014 by Publicus

[kingalfred]

Why interview the non entity Kenney.She knows nothing about anything in Thailand.As much as her boss knows about whats happening in his "sphere of influence"

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[wwest5829]

Natural resources contracts is all the US needs and that's exactly what Amb. Kenney is securing. The military bases are secondary. You can at least try to sneak the gas and oil past the Chinese, but military bases will surely awake the dragon.

The Chinese on the other hand want the rail system to control logistics and trade routes up and down and throughout SEA.

Don't think you can sneak the gas and oil concerns past the Chinese. The reality is that China's population needs increasing amounts of natural resources. That is a very big part of the South China Sea move. As long as China's economic income allows her to purchase needs we are OK. If that fails....do we expect China's population to go without? Not from my reading of history.

[VegasVic]

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He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Thai at heart, C'mon you know that stating the obvious is going to ruffle some feathers here on thaivisa forum. As far as Thailand goes it was the U.S.'s invovement in Vietnam that built up the infrastructure in Thailand and made it possible for Thailand to be transformed from an isolationist 3rd world country, to an economic force to reckoned with in SE Asia. As far as the U.S. "meddling" in SE Asia goes, if the U.S. were to not "meddle" in SE Asia then most if not all of SE Asian nations would become economic vassels of China eventually. Here's some advice for our "America haters" out there on thaivisa, be careful what you wish for because you may very well get it!

What is wrong in protectIing China's interest? Brazil becomes part of the BRIC, an emergent economy, after getting some independence from the US monopoly and export's control. In the new Cold World in process, between the US and China, Russia, North Korea.....what Thailand will gain getting the US "protection"?...NOTHING......Just wait Thailand...China is preparing the big hit to the US economy...It is better to be with the winners, not with the losers...

Chinas economy is slowing, they have a massive real estate bubble (not too mention the shadow banking system) that has yet to unwind and their air and water pollution are at extremely high levels. As the Chinese economy slows ever further there will be wide spread layoffs, not in the hundreds of thousands but in the tens of millions, then China will have its hands full fighting internal strife and the pollution problem for many years to come. Like I said, be careful what you wish for (or who you place your bets on) young man

[rametindallas]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

You've got that backwards. If pitting the West/US against China in Thailand politics, then the Shinawatatra government is aligned with the West/US and the Thai army/royalists with China.

He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

It says a lot that Ambassador Kenney is a career diplomat and not a political appointee. Shows how seriously the US is with its relationship to Thailand. Good post.

[rametindallas]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

You've got that backwards. If pitting the West/US against China in Thailand politics, then the Shinawatatra government is aligned with the West/US and the Thai army/royalists with China.

The Democrats are also very much aligned with USA...Just recall the Victor Bout case where Abhisit sent him over to USA, braking the law, making Russia upset. And no one complained, neither the Shinawatra Party, nor any Democrats nor anyone else.

USA says "jump" and Thailand asks "how high".

But to be fair, I wouldn't speak about countries, I would speak about the regimes. It is not the USA or France or the population there who are looking out for wars, it is just a small ruling elite.

The Thai army knows that the Americans /Nato weapons and toys are really the only ones really worth it.

Also, when push comes to shove, Thailand can depend on the US honoring their bi-lateral mutual defense treaty.

[rametindallas]

To buote name="blazes" post="7628356" timestamp="1396170348"]

[but President Obama met with the Chinese premier at the Nuclear Security Summit and discussed not just about Ukraine but the whole range of Asia issues.] So am I to understand that China has the say over S.E. Asia which includes Thailand. If ASEAN have any brains, they will keep the USA and other Western countries out of S.E. Asia and work towards self preservation. You can guarantee one thing, if Supthep and his mob get their way and change the landscape of politics in Thailand, you can kiss the country goodbye because they are the puppets of the west.

You've got that backwards. If pitting the West/US against China in Thailand politics, then the Shinawatatra government is aligned with the West/US and the Thai army/royalists with China.

He does have it backwards but the Thai military are not unified concerning China or the United States.

The Shinawatra grouping is aligned with Washington while the DP and its backers are aligning with Beijing.

Abhisit was quoted in the Nation in 2012 that he objected to the U.S. proposals to use U-tapo naval air base as "trying to contain China." (I can't find the quote but am still looking.)

Consequently, Abhisit and the DP in 2012 blocked a NASA study there and a Pentagon plan to store "supplies" there as a part of Prez Obama's "Rebalancing To Asia" policy (which keeps getting dragged back to Europe, Eurasia, Russia, the ME, Afghanistan etc etc). Asean wants the U.S. to balance Beijing's influence but of course would never say so publically or as Asean.

So most individual Asean countries have moved quietly and cautiously toward either Washington or Beijing.

Pres Aquino of the U.S. treaty ally the Philippines is the exception, saying a few months ago the president of the PRC reminded him of Hitler in their territorial disputes in the South China Sea.

Vietnam defied a direct publicly made nstruction from Beijing to instead go ahead to award drilling rights in the SCS to an Indian government owned energy corporation.

Malaysia has been conducting naval maneuvers with the United States as it raises its own beefs against Beijing encroaching on Malaysian territorial waters in the SCS.

Myanmar has shut down numerous CCP projects, welcomed a 2012 visit by Prez Obama and is preparing to accept Aung San Suu Kyi running for election as president.

Last year VP Biden visited Brunei to offer assurances to the kingdom in its disputes against Beijing's claims over Brunei's territorial waters of the SCS.

Conversely, two years ago when Cambodia was chairman of Asean Hun Sen ran around the region as Beijing's errand boy.

Singapore, which says Obama's rebalancing will result in conflict, has built a new port facility so U.S. aircraft carriers can dock rather than have to drop anchor in the bay, and has accepted two new hi-tech U.S. naval destroyers based there - Singapore wants the U.S. new Raptor fighter aircraft but so does everyone else (only Japan is scheduled to get the Raptor, next month)..

The Thai army, by far the largest component of the country's military, remains wedded to the Pentagon. Most of the Navy's ships were purchased over time from the PRC by Chavalit so the Navy remains closely connected to Beijing. The Air Force depends heavily on the Pentagon.

Ambassador Kenney, a career diplomat, was once Political-Military Affairs Liaison Officer to Nato, later the director of the State Department Operations Center. It's interesting how a lot of people around here fall for the public showmanship of it all.

Good post. A reminder of how much the US meddles all over the world, instead of putting its own house in order.

Would Thailand be administered from Vietnam or China if the USA hadn't meddled into the region a few decades ago.

Shows an ignorance of why the US was in Vietnam. President Eisenhower was honest enough to admit that the US needed Vietnamese tungsten supplies.

Fro the masses the invasion of Vietnam was dressed up as an anti-communist crusade. Ho Chi Minh was hostile to China, and received aid only from the Soviet Union.

The Yanks have "administered "Thailand since the defeat of the Japanese in WW2 .

Oh please. Tungsten. If there hadn't been an intervention, there would have been a free run to the end of the Malay peninsular. Without the intervention of america Thailand and the rest of south east Asia would be a very different place.

How did america manage without those vital tungsten deposits?

American "intervention" you call it, lol. Invasion is the word you seek, mate. And it was an invasion that ended ignominiously on the roof of the US Embassy in Saigon. Now, I wonder how it was that all those Vietnamese failed to accept Coca-Cola democracy and chose instead self-determination.

Long and short, American "interventionism" has resulted in widespread misery and death (how many dead in Iraq after Cheney and Rumsfeldt had finished with them?)

If America would return to isolationism and abandon their imperialist aims (driven by the military/industrial complex - Eisenhower again), they would be a much greater force for good in the world.j

If America would return to isolationism and abandon their imperialist aims (driven by the military/industrial complex - Eisenhower again), they would be a much greater force for good in the world.j

Absolutely right. It's time to give The Chinese and Russians a turn at World domination. The US is selfish wanting to cling to power. /sarc