I've been denied entry to Thailand - Now What ! ?

[hermespan]

I am aware of the practice of foreigners lending THB to fellow foreigners in Thailand via a Thai intermediary at extraordinary interest rates. I have heard of it being done by establishing a lein at the land title office or a contract in advance to establish such, securing real estate as collateral. But I have also heard from other sources that in the recnt past at least, unlicensed lending of over 15% p.a. Is illegal by anyone under any circumstances of any amount.

What is the truth if the matter? I am not enquiring as to its prudence (people do all sorts of things) but simply whether it is legal, illegal or 'it depends'.

[cornishcarlos]

Legal, illegal, it depends....

Nothing matters as long as you pay the BIB to look the other way, get 2 thugs with full face helmets and a CBR150, a shoulder bag and your in business !!

[hermespan]

I do not understand your acronyms. Sorry. Please elaborate. And secondly I doubt that your cynical (?) answer is correct. Perhaps you are speaking of *enforcement*. Thus, yours is a semi-valid reply as it is meant as an editorial or humour? But it does not answer my question.

Maybe this should be moved to 'Ask a Thai lawyer' for serious consideration.

[hermespan]

Accidental repeat post deleted by poster

Edited March 30, 2014 by hermespan

[cornishcarlos]

BIB, the police..

CBR150, the bike of choice for money collectors.

Cynical, no realistic. 100% correct,

Enforcement, non existent therefore valid reply.

Legal, illegal.. Like a lot of things here, whats written in law often has no bearing on reality.

But if you want a definitive answer then probably better to ask a lawyer for sure.

Nothing humorous about people being extorted.

[hermespan]

A contract entered willingly between two parties regarding a financial matter, with no coercion - how is that extortion? Perhaps you are referring to the practice of unscrupulous loan sharks, graduates of the 'break his knee caps' school of business. I am referring to secured loans, by collateral not violence. But I do not wish to turn this into a political/social philosophy thread. I am simply asking 'Can one borrow/lend money according to mutually agreed upon market rates? Or not? If not, what law(s) prevent one from doing so?

I have observed in Cambodia locals borrowing from each other and foreigners at what to me seem to be ridiculously high rates (what would be foolish even at a yearly rate, but instead is monthly, weekly or even *daily*). The collateral is typically gold. I have heard of families in Vietnam whose fathers or mothers have the gambling habit ending up indenturing daughters in domestic servitude etc and sons in factories. Appalling. Worse than credit cards.

But this is a business question, not an ethical one (of course it *is* an ethical question but here I am specifically addressing the legal dimension). I repeat, as Larry Flynt publisher quipped 'it might not be intelligent to smoke, but it's not illegal'. Similarly, in my opinion and practice I believe that killing and eating animals is a sin. But the reality is that the state does not prohibit (although it does regulate) the slaughtering of cows.

In this thread, This is a primarily a business law question.

Mods: please move to appropriate section if that would be a suitable action to see an eventual answer.

Edited March 30, 2014 by hermespan

[Pib]

This weblink may help answer the question regarding allowed maximum interest rates in Thailand: Link

[MMarlow]

BIB, the police..

CBR150, the bike of choice for money collectors.

Cynical, no realistic. 100% correct,

Enforcement, non existent therefore valid reply.

Legal, illegal.. Like a lot of things here, whats written in law often has no bearing on reality.

But if you want a definitive answer then probably better to ask a lawyer for sure.

Nothing humorous about people being extorted.

"Nothing humorous about people being extorted."

That must be why you posted a failed attempt at humour.

[hermespan]

Thank you for the layman's language explanation. The section on "What are the rules of interest?" appears to be saying...

more than 15% cannot be charged unless both parties agree, in writing and in advance'. I have not yet read the actual criminal code nor studied case law.

[cheeryble]

I think your 15% is way out.

If I'm not mistaken GEMoney in Thailand has an annual equivalent rate if 28% on their enormous number of small loans.

Maybe that was a few years back when rates a bit higher not sure)

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited March 30, 2014 by cheeryble

[cornishcarlos]

BIB, the police..

CBR150, the bike of choice for money collectors.

Cynical, no realistic. 100% correct,

Enforcement, non existent therefore valid reply.

Legal, illegal.. Like a lot of things here, whats written in law often has no bearing on reality.

But if you want a definitive answer then probably better to ask a lawyer for sure.

Nothing humorous about people being extorted.

"Nothing humorous about people being extorted."

That must be why you posted a failed attempt at humour.

No humor intended in my post at all... Just the reality of the money lending business in Thailand !!

[Pib]

I think your 15% is way out.

If I'm not mistaken GEMoney in Thailand has an annual equivalent rate if 28% on their enormous number of small loans.

Maybe that was a few years back when rates a bit higher not sure)

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Could have been..there is some smoke and mirrors differences "in loan types" and "who is doing the loaning"....that is, a person or a bank/financial company. For example, when looking at the Bangkok Bank current loans rates at this webpage you'll see their maximum rate for a Commercial Loan is 15% but of an Unsecured Commercial Loan it's 23%. And for a Consumer Personal loan its 15% for a secured loan and 18% for an Unsecured loan.

[fletchsmile]

The 15% is the general rule.

Commerciak banks are subject to other laws notifications and regulations. Hence the higher amounts. For banks it depends on the product as well as whether in default or not. Bank of Thailand publish notifications from time to time setting the limits.

Property is also covered by certain regulations eg condo act on what people can charge for late payment.

The further you get from regulated activity tho the more deviations you will get.

Cheers

Fletch

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fletchsmile]

If you really want to check websites for banks it's better to look at the Bank of Thailand s website. In a similar place to the normal deposit rates. The Thai version also explains the meanings. You can also search the same website for regulations and notifications. The English isnt very good for this. The Thai one much more comprehensive...

Cheers

Fletch

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[marcusd]

I think your 15% is way out.

If I'm not mistaken GEMoney in Thailand has an annual equivalent rate if 28% on their enormous number of small loans.

Maybe that was a few years back when rates a bit higher not sure)

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I have some staff that have LOANS at 10%. Now I question this % as it is used as it is NOTR per cent (per centum - latin for "a period of one year). In Thailand it seems per cent % is used for MONTHLY calculations so even reading the link on the LWS you may still need a Solicitor here to qulanify hwat they actually mean by % in Thailand.

I know in Australia a few years back, many banks had to return MILLIONS of dollars because they used PER CENT relating to PER MONTH contracts

[cheeryble]

Property is also covered by certain regulations eg condo act on what people can charge for late payment.

.........

Cheers

Fletch

......that Condo Act as you no doubt know Fletch specifies 20% pa for overdue common area fees after the first six months.

I'm on the committee of a condo and the interest rate is so high it's sometimes a toss up whether to press for payment.

But what really appals me is GEMoney's interest rates. They supply an amazing amount of small loans they pay for things like kid's iPhones which they can't afford.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited March 31, 2014 by cheeryble

[PattayaPhom]

Its not uncommon for rates of upto 10% per month, most hover around 3% with attachment secured on Chanote for forced sale of overdue payment.