Leaving Thailand for China, here is why

[fatdrunkandstupid]

Mr. Hammer, now it's perfectly clear you're making the wrong decision. Say it ain't so!

Take another look at Thailand--get out of BKK above all.

If you must go, consider the Phils, Vietnam, Cambodia, or Indonesia.

The bike has been sold, the lease has been ended and I will buy a ticket for Taiwan tomorrow and stay there for 3 months to learn mandarin. Who knows what will happen after that, we shall see. Taiwan seems very agreeable too. It would be foolish to not listen to experience from those who have been in China, but it would also be foolish to not try out things for yourself.

Good luck Hammer. Please revisit this thread to keep us updated on your adventure. I, for one, am very interested in your posts and your new adventure.

[KonaRain]

Lots of alcoholics in my pure Thai neighborhood.. STAY OUT OF BARS..Alohz

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulysses G.]

Yet another (probably Yank)who refuses to adapt to another culture and fails, leaving Thaialnd and criticizing her for his lackings. - good riddance.

There certainly no Brits or Aussies who come here and act like they are still back home.

[watso63]

Thinking about things a little......as for Isaan prostitues, the majority are pretty decent people trying to lift themselves and immediate family members out of poverty by trying to find a supportive foreign/farang "partner". No different than the "upper class"??? escorts trying to pay for a university education in the west so favoured by those respectable rich businessmen types. They are not quite the same as those drug and alcohol abusers, riddled with STD's that prowl our street corners back home (although there will be some, admittedly.

The biggest problem with "Isaan Prostitutes" are the men that fall for them and expect miracles whilst trying to maintain a honest and loving relationship from 12,000 miles away. By all means enjoy their company, but unless you can move to Thailand or move them to your country, then just prepare yourself for a broken heart or wallet. I personally know good and bad, living here in Isaan. I have an excellent TGF (never been a bar girl/prostitute to my knowledge, but we both had STD & HIV tests so I don't care anyway), I live here, but I never know what her and her friends natter about unless she tells me. I got lucky? don't know, but sometimes you make your own luck in life.

What I do know is my 3 previous UK wives were all expensive to meet, live with and leave, so why all the damning condemnation of Thai women?

Edited April 2, 2014 by watso63

[MrWorldwide]

Mr. Hammer, now it's perfectly clear you're making the wrong decision. Say it ain't so!

Take another look at Thailand--get out of BKK above all.

If you must go, consider the Phils, Vietnam, Cambodia, or Indonesia.

The bike has been sold, the lease has been ended and I will buy a ticket for Taiwan tomorrow and stay there for 3 months to learn mandarin. Who knows what will happen after that, we shall see. Taiwan seems very agreeable too. It would be foolish to not listen to experience from those who have been in China, but it would also be foolish to not try out things for yourself.

Good luck Hammer. Please revisit this thread to keep us updated on your adventure. I, for one, am very interested in your posts and your new adventure.

If there is any way he / we can talk you into moving to China, please advise. It would completely make my month, if not the entire second quarter of 2014.

[fatdrunkandstupid]

Mr. Hammer, now it's perfectly clear you're making the wrong decision. Say it ain't so!

Take another look at Thailand--get out of BKK above all.

If you must go, consider the Phils, Vietnam, Cambodia, or Indonesia.

The bike has been sold, the lease has been ended and I will buy a ticket for Taiwan tomorrow and stay there for 3 months to learn mandarin. Who knows what will happen after that, we shall see. Taiwan seems very agreeable too. It would be foolish to not listen to experience from those who have been in China, but it would also be foolish to not try out things for yourself.

Good luck Hammer. Please revisit this thread to keep us updated on your adventure. I, for one, am very interested in your posts and your new adventure.

If there is any way he / we can talk you into moving to China, please advise. It would completely make my month, if not the entire second quarter of 2014.

Read my posts MR Astroturfer...I am off to Indonesia...

[thailiketoo]

If there is any way he / we can talk you into moving to China, please advise. It would completely make my month, if not the entire second quarter of 2014.

Read my posts MR Astroturfer...I am off to Indonesia...

I don't think it's fair. You guys all have Astroturfing jobs and I don't. One is pro China (but has never been there) another is anti Thai (but has never been here). It is just not fair. I've been to China and I live in Thailand. So where do I get one of those Jobs. I've tried google without success.

[blueyeshk]

Agreed on most points you made you got my attention even It was a long predictable post but pretty much considered. I lived in Hong Kong for a decade and well agree with your idea on the business/job opportunities. And as I see Thailand as well on a down spiral it still combines most points which are important to make a home besides from Europe. But you are right more and more you are forced to turn a blind eye on the negative development of the country and people at whole. Good luck in china I recon Hong Kong if you want to earn some money and live in a vibrant city with escape routes.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[blueyeshk]

But my first choice would be Taiwan as it combines south Asian lifestyle with the business opportunities of china/Hong Kong and is a pure think tank compared to china. Have a deeper look into that.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GlobalCtzn]

As for me. I live in the beautiful north of Thailand, I have wonderful Thai friends, business partners, and social relationships. I eat fresh healthy food for a fraction of the cost of most ANY other place on this planet. Housing is stunningly cheap, and the list of daily life positives is literally too long to list here.

What about the smog?

I'm in CM, and it's a real choker.

I am fortunate in that it does not bother me. I also get out into the mountains 25 km outside almost every day. This last week total gray in the city. I saw at least some blue sky every day in the mountains.

[Starre]

I'd be a little careful with the grass is greener in China approach. I've spent the last 25 years working and living with the Chinese. Whilst the change in culture is interesting for about 5 minutes, you will find them similarly racist to the Thais or worse. Lying is second nature to them. Most of them don't know what the word truth means. Business ethics are non existent. It's every man for himself and greed is their God. Forget any support from authoritities or the law. It will only favour Chinese or themselves. Corruption is still rampant. They have totally destroyed their environment in favour of industry which is why those that can are abandoning the country and buying up real estate in other countries at a rate of knots. Pollution in cities like Shanghai & Guangzhou is so bad you will not see the sun for weeks at a time. There is a real estate bubble in China that when it bursts has potential to cause another much more acute GFC. I could go on but you get the picture. For all Thailand's faults, China is far worse IMHO

[MrWorldwide]

If there is any way he / we can talk you into moving to China, please advise. It would completely make my month, if not the entire second quarter of 2014.

Read my posts MR Astroturfer...I am off to Indonesia...

I don't think it's fair. You guys all have Astroturfing jobs and I don't. One is pro China (but has never been there) another is anti Thai (but has never been here). It is just not fair. I've been to China and I live in Thailand. So where do I get one of those Jobs. I've tried google without success.

OK - I'll bite.

I've only been to China once (HK twice, but that isnt the China we are discussing here -- I travelled to Guanxi province from Shenzhen in 2004 at the height of the domestic tourist season) and the longest I've spent in Thailand is 3 months in a single stint, but all I asked for here is that FDS consider moving from Thailand : hardly makes me anti-Thailand *or* pro-China. Anti-FDS ? Sure, but if you read his current rant re life in Phuket I think you'll quickly realise where I'm coming from.

@fds, I doubt that you'll find what you are looking for in Indonesia, but God's speed. Thailand's loss is definitely Thailand's gain.

[Jasun]

I went to work in Shanghai (from Bangkok) in 2009, thinking it could be a long term move. I was back in Thailand inside 2 months. Admittedly it was in the middle of a freezing winter and I hardly knew anyone, but it still didn't impress me as a place I could spend a lot of time in. As for the issues/ reasons you're leaving Thailand, they're all valid, but don't expect that China will be that much better. And they'll be wanting more than their pound of flesh from you. The attitude is mercenary. The only friends I know who have stuck it out in Mainland China are Singaporeans who have paved their way and earned respect with the benefit of speaking Mandarin. HK and Taiwan are better options. Good luck wherever you end up.

[Madgee]

Starre, on 03 Apr 2014 - 05:07, said:

I'd be a little careful with the grass is greener in China approach. I've spent the last 25 years working and living with the Chinese. Whilst the change in culture is interesting for about 5 minutes, you will find them similarly racist to the Thais or worse. Lying is second nature to them. Most of them don't know what the word truth means. Business ethics are non existent. It's every man for himself and greed is their God. Forget any support from authorities or the law. It will only favour Chinese or themselves. Corruption is still rampant. They have totally destroyed their environment in favour of industry which is why those that can are abandoning the country and buying up real estate in other countries at a rate of knots. Pollution in cities like Shanghai & Guangzhou is so bad you will not see the sun for weeks at a time. There is a real estate bubble in China that when it bursts has potential to cause another much more acute GFC. I could go on but you get the picture. For all Thailand's faults, China is far worse IMHO

Totally agree.

OP, you seem to be a party animal and why not? Enjoy the clubs and nightlife but I'm afraid you are not going to find what you are looking for in China, especially in a smaller city. Unless you do some serious 'guanxi' and make some influential friends you will be resigned to being on the outside, looking in at the China elite who have the cash to splash in the better clubs. You think being a farang laowai will get you more respect in China? Dream on.

Go and enjoy China, there are plenty of opportunities for employment and some good money to be had in the right situation, a good understanding of the language will definitely help.

As for the women? A voyage of discovery awaits you! Anybody who has lived in China and has truly mixed within the Chinese community could tell you many untold stories using the word 'agenda'.

Best of luck on whatever you decide to do.

[Zorro46]

OH, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet, Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgment Seat;

I think that Kipling was musing about the Muslims in India and yes they never meet eye to eye with the West as Hindus and Sikhs do, or did.

I was married to Japanese before and they are OK with the West.

It should be; Oh, Middle East is Middle East.....tra la, la!

[BritManToo]

You think being a farang laowai will get you more respect in China? Dream on.

I thought laowai = old foreigner.

[Wordworx]

You think being a farang laowai will get you more respect in China? Dream on.

I thought laowai = old foreigner.

*******************************

No, laowai means Westerner -- generic.

They have names for other eastern nationalities, like the Japanese, sort of along the lines of murderers and rapists (well deserved, in the case of Nanjing / Nanking). Unless at the time they need their tech and manufacturing expertise. Then they wait for the contract to be complete.

I've actually been in some more remote places, no problems with the locals, but the Han Chinese tourists would point, "Look, laowai!." And laugh. No idea why. Those times I was traveling solo with an assistant / guide on a magazine / photo assignment. The Han were doing the standard group tour - in and out of the bus, looking down on the local ethnic groups and, I guess, the laowai with the camera gear and local assistant.

Ya' gotta love 'em... Oh, wait, no you don't.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Wordworx

[donniereadit]

As for me. I live in the beautiful north of Thailand, I have wonderful Thai friends, business partners, and social relationships. I eat fresh healthy food for a fraction of the cost of most ANY other place on this planet. Housing is stunningly cheap, and the list of daily life positives is literally too long to list here.

What about the smog?

I'm in CM, and it's a real choker.

I am fortunate in that it does not bother me. I also get out into the mountains 25 km outside almost every day. This last week total gray in the city. I saw at least some blue sky every day in the mountains.

Going 25 clicks into the mountains to see blue sky does not register as a positive in my book. Perhaps you need to move to a different country and commute back in every day.

[julianzzkj]

Chuckling as I read the OP complaining about not getting any attention from the ladies in Climax - and recalling the Westerner (Scandinavian, early 30's, well dressed) in Kerry Centro a few weeks ago, desperately asking me "how does one get laid in this town". If OP thinks he will have an easy time in China in any of the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd tier cities, he is in for a very rude awakening.

And no, HK does not in any way represent Mainland China. Me and my colleagues based in Beijing can't wait for a long weekend to hit HK and escape PKG's many many ills.

[khunpa]

Ever seen a China man eat? Thats enough for me... I will stay here.

[Ulysses G.]

As for me. I live in the beautiful north of Thailand, I have wonderful Thai friends, business partners, and social relationships. I eat fresh healthy food for a fraction of the cost of most ANY other place on this planet. Housing is stunningly cheap, and the list of daily life positives is literally too long to list here.

What about the smog?

I'm in CM, and it's a real choker.

I am fortunate in that it does not bother me. I also get out into the mountains 25 km outside almost every day. This last week total gray in the city. I saw at least some blue sky every day in the mountains.

Going 25 clicks into the mountains to see blue sky does not register as a positive in my book. Perhaps you need to move to a different country and commute back in every day.

It does not bother me and I don't have to go anywhere. It does not bother a lot of people who are not the sensitive types.

[oldthaihand99]

Chuckling as I read the OP complaining about not getting any attention from the ladies in Climax - and recalling the Westerner (Scandinavian, early 30's, well dressed) in Kerry Centro a few weeks ago, desperately asking me "how does one get laid in this town". If OP thinks he will have an easy time in China in any of the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd tier cities, he is in for a very rude awakening.

And no, HK does not in any way represent Mainland China. Me and my colleagues based in Beijing can't wait for a long weekend to hit HK and escape PKG's many many ills.

Evidently the OP has decided upon Taiwan rather than China. Perhaps this will help introduce him to the club scene & picking up there:

http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-29228.html

As for over priced Hong Kong, what are you going to get travelling so far in a weekend that you couldn't get for less in PKG? I'd prefer Geylang, SG.

[wym]

As for over priced Hong Kong, what are you going to get travelling so far in a weekend that you couldn't get for less in PKG? I'd prefer Geylang, SG.

Would PGK = Pangkor Island?

And surely Geylang is also overpriced compared to Thailand?

[oldthaihand99]

As for over priced Hong Kong, what are you going to get travelling so far in a weekend that you couldn't get for less in PKG? I'd prefer Geylang, SG.

Would PGK = Pangkor Island?

And surely Geylang is also overpriced compared to Thailand?

It's PKG, not PGK. PKG = Peking = Beijing. Used interchangably by the poster above.

http://www.logoi.com/notes/peking-beijing.html

Re Geylang, my comparison was to HKG, not Siam. But Geylang is the skid row cheapy area of SG, so very cheap compared to SG in general. Prices i paid for food, clothes & booze, etc, there were similar to what i'd pay for the same or similar items around NEP in BKK. Hotels more expensive for equivalent quality, but as cheap as about $40. Safer & much more English language friendly than either LOS or HKG.

Edited April 5, 2014 by oldthaihand99

[ableguy]

Why do you feel the need to explain yourself here ? No one cares.

totster

Very rude comment, this is social chat site, what you mean is you don't care.j

[bkkgooner]

There is a genuine disdain for foreigners in China and jesus they are a surly bunch of people compared to the Thais also the nightlife is ehhhh..welllll.....rubbish? Seriously though you can't really believe that China has a better night life than Thailand do you?

The vast majority of Thais just tend to ignore farang on the whole really I don't seen any of this hatred they have for us that I see mentioned on Thai Visa all of the time oh sure the simmering bitterness is there in a fair few of them but it is nothing to the contempt you are going to come across in parts of China.

I can understand leaving to further your career though so best of luck with it

[oldthaihand99]

Re Geylang, my comparison was to HKG, not Siam. But Geylang is the skid row cheapy area of SG, so very cheap compared to SG in general. Prices i paid for food, clothes & booze, etc, there were similar to what i'd pay for the same or similar items around NEP in BKK. Hotels more expensive for equivalent quality, but as cheap as about $40. Safer & much more English language friendly than either LOS or HKG.

Who cares about all that, the issue is the price of ST - I found nothing in SG as cheap as Thailand, but then I only have deep local knowledge and language skills in LoS.

That's not the issue nor a topic in this thread. And i suppose forum rule # 16 does not allow discussion of the subject.

Overall i preferred Chinese dominated Geylang to what i know about HKG. Other than the hotel costs in SG, i found it was just as good or better than BKK in about every way one could imagine. Perhaps the only thing that would make me decide upon a visit to BKK over SG is the high cost of accomodations. If hotel prices were equal, i'd head to SG instead.

[Rumpole]

The Chinese seem obsessed with making money - am I wrong?

Of course, the Thais are not at all money-obsessed, are they?

[speedtripler]

As for over priced Hong Kong, what are you going to get travelling so far in a weekend that you couldn't get for less in PKG? I'd prefer Geylang, SG.

Would PGK = Pangkor Island?

And surely Geylang is also overpriced compared to Thailand?

you can get girls from everywhere in the geylang area which is the low end of singapore whores ,thats the one benefit it has over thailand

culturally a much wider range of girls from china ,malaysia ,indonesia ,india,phillinines , thailand etc

prices can be haggled easily especially on less busier nights when there are way more girls than customers , normally $40-100 dependeding on how hot the girl rates herself or how badly she needs a customer and how much money she thinks you have

ive seen girls you wouldnt shag for free asking for $20 etc but some cracking good looking ones will go for 40 or 50

but thats just an hour at her room so i supppose they make it up in volume with numbers .......shel be back on the side of the road 15 minutes after shes got dressed trying to get another guy ,theres no barfines or even bars you have to go into which is a bonus if you need a break from drinking but not a break from sex .........

[nonthaburial]

Topics such as this more often than not results in responses that were not asked for nor required. It does appear to me that answers were posted by persons who obviously knew China, others from persons who do not know China, then those from people who would probably have trouble finding China on a map. Please don't misunderstand, I am not knocking anyone, but I do think that if any responder has not lived in China for more than eighteen months then their knowledge of China is still limited.

And let's make it clear, China the PRC of, is hugely different from Hong Kong, Taiwan, and dare I suggest it Geylang.

The shear size of China, with different Provinces, different tribes, cultures and yes even different dialects ensures China is able to throw up challenges for the unwary. It's a country that is very much about "horses for courses" a responder suggested Kunming was very pleasant. I hate the place after living there for a year. Another stated Beijing and Shanghai were not pleasant. But are they any different to other concrete jungles anywhere in the world ?

Would I be happy living in Urumqi in the top north west, definitely not, Harbin ? No thanks Shenyang? No too cold. Yet in any of those mentioned cities you will find nightlife and naughties as you will in any Chinese City, it's just not so blatant as Pattaya for example.

I spend my time commuting between China and Bangkok as we have offices in both, we have a lovely property in Donnguan and it's a city, in a region I like very much. Yes Dongguan is huge, but it's not a city built using height, it is very spread out and generally more low rise than skyscraper. It is very clean, it is very green and being in the South it is semi tropical. Being one of China's "factory cities" it has it's fair share of expats, western styled and owned bars and restaurants, and if it rocks your boat, it is also know as the sex capital of China. But again very discreet.

The cost of living here is comfortable, I don't think I have ever heard of any one complaining about the cost of a beer but that could be because the expats here are different to the majority in Thailand. Most here are working, most for huge companies such as Nike, Puma etc. And on good packages, they don't mind putting their hands into their wallets.

New and second hand cars here are a lot cheaper than Thailand, gasoline is cheaper, fresh food is cheaper, telephones cheaper, electricity and water probably cheaper, however house rentals are probably higher.

Transportation very good, there are three international airports within a two hour drive, Guangzhou, Shenzhen and the HK border crossing only 70kms away. Want a change of scenery or a couple of days away, easy, drive to Shenzhen, park the car, and within two hours I can be in the middle of it all in HK. Fancy an upmarket beach weekend ? Simple a forty minute flight lands me on Hainan Island. Great beaches, sea food and 5 star resorts.

So has the OP made a good decision, depending on where he is looking in China, I think he has. Would I rather be in Dongguan than Pattaya, absolutely, would I rather be in Kunming than the boondocks in Isaan, possibly. Let's not forget the expression " one mans meat is another mans poison"

To the OP I wish you luck but do your homework.