Thai police cadets: Experts to probe parachute tragedy

[webfact]

POLICE-CADET DRILL
Experts to probe parachute tragedy
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Police will call on experts to help determine whether the static line used for a cadet parachute drill on Monday was properly installed and of good standard.

Two police cadets were killed during the drill because of problems with the static line. A fact-finding committee, headed by an inspector general of the National Police Office, is looking into the case.

National Police Chief Gen Adul Saengsingkaew said he had demanded that the investigation come to a conclusion as fast as possible.

In response to reports that the parents of one of the |dead cadets suspect that their son's conflict with a senior |student might have been involved in his fatal plunge, Adul said he understood the parents' feelings and thus would ensure that the fact-finding committee address this suspicion too.


-- The Nation 2014-04-03

[JeremyBowskill]

Bummer. Poor chaps, although statistically its probably safer to jump out of a Thai government aircraft than it is to remain seated in 1..........

Edited April 3, 2014 by JeremyBowskill

[NongKhaiKid]

I hope a proper investigation is carried out and a genuine conclusion reached and made public, notice I said hope.

Unfortunately this incident sheds more light on Thai culture and attitudes because the parents of one of the deceased immediately alleged murder as he had a problem with a senior cadet and as a result was probably killed. If true what a sad state of affairs where violence is seen as a solution to all problems, loss of face etc.

[Langsuan Man]

Someone needs to answer the question of whether the macho image of jumping out of an airplane is really necessary for police candidates in the first place

Oh look at my parachute wings that entitle me to ask for an even bigger bribe

[bangkokheat]

who would like to go bungy jumping in thailand??

[slapout]

In my humble opinion human error was the underling contributer to this incident. You can call in all the "'experts"', you want, place blame on some piece of equipment involved in the sequence, but its the human factor that was the root cause.

This is next to impossible to get people to admit, but its just a hard old fact of life and death where accidents are concerned. The term acciident is used/accepted as a catch all phrase, just so people can feel vindicated from somehow being or bing seen as, at fault.

[Soutpeel]

forgive my ignorance, but why are "POLICE" cadets doing jump training anyway ?....I mean how many people can you extort money from at 10,000 feet ?...

[tomyummer]

Someone needs to answer the question of whether the macho image of jumping out of an airplane is really necessary for police candidates in the first place

Oh look at my parachute wings that entitle me to ask for an even bigger bribe

Unless this is part of a new traffic police tactic to drop police at accident sites or congested intersections, why do the police even need this parachute training??

[Minnehaha]

The article I read yesterday said that the chord that failed is attached to each guy's parachute so when they jump it pulls on it and deploys the chute. There is an emergency chord or an emergency chute, I think the article said. Some of the guys pulled their emergency chords and deployed their chutes. One guy apparently landed in a lake and was injured and went to hospital.

How many that jumped had to deploy their own chutes? Why did these guys fail to deploy their own chutes?

I find it hard to believe it was malicious intent to harm one individual. Sounds more like a mechanical failure and therefore a responsibility of the operators.

[p_brownstone]

Apparently it was not the actual Static Line - which is attached to each Parachute - that failed, it was the Cable which stretches down the length of the aircraft and to which the individual Static Lines are clipped prior to jumping. This Cable acts as a "Hard Point" to pull the Parachute from the backpack as the Jumper falls away from the 'plane.

I have not read anything about the height at which the trainees jumped but usually it is quite low, that, and the fact that these jumpers were very inexperienced (I believe that at least for some it was their first jump) meant that they did not have the experience or time necessary to realise their Main had not deployed and then go through the procedure to deploy the Reserve.

Patrick

[toybits]

I saw the video of this incident. The person behind the video never pointed the camera towards the inside of the plane. I found that rather disturbing. It did not show whether those on the plane were trying to reel the poor fellow back into the plane or not. It did not show whether any effort was ever done to recover that cadet. The videographer, however, was able to zoom in and follow the cadet falling to his death. Something very fishy about this incident.

[nowork114]

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Someone needs to answer the question of whether the macho image of jumping out of an airplane is really necessary for police candidates in the first place

Oh look at my parachute wings that entitle me to ask for an even bigger bribe

Unless this is part of a new traffic police tactic to drop police at accident sites or congested intersections, why do the police even need this parachute training??

They were from the Border Patrol Police (BPP)

[nowork114]

Apparently it was not the actual Static Line - which is attached to each Parachute - that failed, it was the Cable which stretches down the length of the aircraft and to which the individual Static Lines are clipped prior to jumping. This Cable acts as a "Hard Point" to pull the Parachute from the backpack as the Jumper falls away from the 'plane.

I have not read anything about the height at which the trainees jumped but usually it is quite low, that, and the fact that these jumpers were very inexperienced (I believe that at least for some it was their first jump) meant that they did not have the experience or time necessary to realise their Main had not deployed and then go through the procedure to deploy the Reserve.

Patrick

The jump was from around 1,000m - which gives you less than 10 second to make decision to deploy reserve

[Soupdragon]

Apparently it was not the actual Static Line - which is attached to each Parachute - that failed, it was the Cable which stretches down the length of the aircraft and to which the individual Static Lines are clipped prior to jumping. This Cable acts as a "Hard Point" to pull the Parachute from the backpack as the Jumper falls away from the 'plane.

I have not read anything about the height at which the trainees jumped but usually it is quite low, that, and the fact that these jumpers were very inexperienced (I believe that at least for some it was their first jump) meant that they did not have the experience or time necessary to realise their Main had not deployed and then go through the procedure to deploy the Reserve.

Patrick

The jump was from around 1,000m - which gives you less than 10 second to make decision to deploy reserve

A body at terminal velocity falls 1000ft in about 5 seconds and it takes about 5 seconds to accelerate to terminal velocity so you are looking at 15-20 seconds before impact from 1000 metres. So following the 5 count, check canopy drill you should be reaching for the reserve above 2000 ft. Obviously the cadets didn't do this.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Soupdragon

[DoctorG]

Apparently it was not the actual Static Line - which is attached to each Parachute - that failed, it was the Cable which stretches down the length of the aircraft and to which the individual Static Lines are clipped prior to jumping. This Cable acts as a "Hard Point" to pull the Parachute from the backpack as the Jumper falls away from the 'plane.

I have not read anything about the height at which the trainees jumped but usually it is quite low, that, and the fact that these jumpers were very inexperienced (I believe that at least for some it was their first jump) meant that they did not have the experience or time necessary to realise their Main had not deployed and then go through the procedure to deploy the Reserve.

Patrick

The jump was from around 1,000m - which gives you less than 10 second to make decision to deploy reserve

Are you sure it was 1000m? That is quite high.

When I did my army para training we jumped at 800-1000 FEET.

[tomyummer]

Someone needs to answer the question of whether the macho image of jumping out of an airplane is really necessary for police candidates in the first place

Oh look at my parachute wings that entitle me to ask for an even bigger bribe

Unless this is part of a new traffic police tactic to drop police at accident sites or congested intersections, why do the police even need this parachute training??

They were from the Border Patrol Police (BPP)

Sounds great. I'm wondering where it would be helpful? Jungles? Mountains? Burma borders? The south? I've frankly never heard about border police being dropped for any control problems. Leave it to the army. The police can't even handle the streets and roads, not sure how good they are from above.

Apparently not that good.

[MMarlow]

Bummer. Poor chaps, although statistically its probably safer to jump out of a Thai government aircraft than it is to remain seated in 1..........

On what basis do you make that assertion?

[MMarlow]

forgive my ignorance, but why are "POLICE" cadets doing jump training anyway ?....I mean how many people can you extort money from at 10,000 feet ?...

You're forgiven.

[Bluespunk]

"Police will call on experts to help determine whether the static line used for a cadet parachute drill on Monday was properly installed and of good standard."

Good to hear, would hate to think bumbling, incompetent idiots are in charge of the jumps and the investigations.

[Fat Haggis]

Apparently it was not the actual Static Line - which is attached to each Parachute - that failed, it was the Cable which stretches down the length of the aircraft and to which the individual Static Lines are clipped prior to jumping. This Cable acts as a "Hard Point" to pull the Parachute from the backpack as the Jumper falls away from the 'plane.

I have not read anything about the height at which the trainees jumped but usually it is quite low, that, and the fact that these jumpers were very inexperienced (I believe that at least for some it was their first jump) meant that they did not have the experience or time necessary to realise their Main had not deployed and then go through the procedure to deploy the Reserve.

Patrick

The jump was from around 1,000m - which gives you less than 10 second to make decision to deploy reserve

It's the same as doing a hop and pop jump, and at 3000 feet, after getting stable, you have very little time to mess about, I'm a sports jumper, and for these guys panic would have been a major contribution, it's all too easy for the mind to go blank when after you exit the aircraft and expect the canopy to open, under BPA/USPA rules, you have to make a decision by 1800 feet if you have a malfunction, which this was.

The time from exit to deployment in a normal skydive from 3,000 feet is literaly seconds, you get out, stable and pull, all B licence and below as well using sports rigs have AAD's in them, I don't believe a Military type Rig has these, they will fire off your reserve at a certain height and speed.

[p_brownstone]

I saw the video of this incident. The person behind the video never pointed the camera towards the inside of the plane. I found that rather disturbing. It did not show whether those on the plane were trying to reel the poor fellow back into the plane or not. It did not show whether any effort was ever done to recover that cadet. The videographer, however, was able to zoom in and follow the cadet falling to his death. Something very fishy about this incident.

It is not possible to reel someone back into the aircraft using the Static Line, the weight of the falling Jumper is intended to pull open the parachute backpack and then pull out the Parachute itself; the way the Static Line is attached to the backpack is no way strong enough to bear the weight of the Jumper - that's the whole point; if it was strong enough to bear such weight it would never break open as designed and the Jumper would always end up hanging outside the 'plane.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

Apparently it was not the actual Static Line - which is attached to each Parachute - that failed, it was the Cable which stretches down the length of the aircraft and to which the individual Static Lines are clipped prior to jumping. This Cable acts as a "Hard Point" to pull the Parachute from the backpack as the Jumper falls away from the 'plane.

I have not read anything about the height at which the trainees jumped but usually it is quite low, that, and the fact that these jumpers were very inexperienced (I believe that at least for some it was their first jump) meant that they did not have the experience or time necessary to realise their Main had not deployed and then go through the procedure to deploy the Reserve.

Patrick

The jump was from around 1,000m - which gives you less than 10 second to make decision to deploy reserve

Are you sure it was 1000m? That is quite high.

When I did my army para training we jumped at 800-1000 FEET.

Sports Parachutists take their first Static Line jumps from 3,000 feet minimum and have quite extensive training, including what to do if the Main fails to deploy for some reason - thus they have a pretty good chance of getting rid of the failed Main and deploying the Reserve. Although it must be said that the chances of a Main failing to deploy when on Static Line is fairly remote.

Most Military type jumps are from under 1,000 feet and frankly from that height the Reserve is mainly a decoration - the training given to these jumpers can be pretty perfunctory and panic is the first reaction. Again of course the chances of the Main failing to deploy is pretty small on Static Line - unless, as apparently happened in this case, the Hard Point in the 'plane failed and the Static Line simply came loose from the aircraft.

Patrick

Edited April 3, 2014 by p_brownstone

[circusman]

In my humble opinion human error was the underling contributer to this incident. You can call in all the "'experts"', you want, place blame on some piece of equipment involved in the sequence, but its the human factor that was the root cause.

This is next to impossible to get people to admit, but its just a hard old fact of life and death where accidents are concerned. The term acciident is used/accepted as a catch all phrase, just so people can feel vindicated from somehow being or bing seen as, at fault.

Don't be humble slapout, you solved accident without any facts at your finger tips. Nice job.

[chainarong]

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forgive my ignorance, but why are "POLICE" cadets doing jump training anyway ?....I mean how many people can you extort money from at 10,000 feet ?... width=20 alt=tongue.png>

That's what I was wondering , maybe they are the flying squad, never heard of this before in a police force

[Luk Mhee]

One thing for sure, you cannot fold a parachute the same way as you fold your dirty laundry before putting it into the bag.

[Procrastinator]

One thing for sure, you cannot fold a parachute the same way as you fold your dirty laundry before putting it into the bag.

Actually, you can... It is called a trash pack.

I have seen para packing races, conducted under varying degrees of... Well... Everything.

But to actually win the race, the packer must jump with that parachute after he has had time to.... Contemplate... His misdeeds.

Quite understandably, at lot of people pull out of the race, prior to the next days first jump.

[coma]

forgive my ignorance, but why are "POLICE" cadets doing jump training anyway ?....I mean how many people can you extort money from at 10,000 feet ?...

Malaysian airlines pilots maybe ?

[Procrastinator]

forgive my ignorance, but why are "POLICE" cadets doing jump training anyway ?....I mean how many people can you extort money from at 10,000 feet ?...

Malaysian airlines pilots maybe ?

Im voting this one as todays winner...

His post name may well be "coma", but obviously his brains still ticking.

[p_brownstone]

forgive my ignorance, but why are "POLICE" cadets doing jump training anyway ?....I mean how many people can you extort money from at 10,000 feet ?...

Malaysian airlines pilots maybe ?

Im voting this one as todays winner...

His post name may well be "coma", but obviously his brains still ticking.

I see nothing even remotely intelligent in a Post trying to link two entirely separate tragedies via a crass and totally meaningless comment.

Patrick

[Mugg]

Thailand will be first to implement hover crafts and need the police that can be ready for the task