Contractor vs. Employee for work permit

[Mondy]

I plan to teach professional seminars through several universities and must discuss with them how I shall be paid. I have an incorporated bus. in the states and can gain invitation letters from the universities. What I don't know is: 1. If they can pay me directly since I am a resident here with a checking account. 2. What I must do to change from tourist to non-immigrant, 3. if I need to be hired as an employee, 4. if I can teach seminars for multiple host universities on the same work permit. There are probably twice as many questions that I don't yet know to ask but I appreciate any advice I can get from you guys.

[ubonjoe]

In order to work here you have to do it through a Thai registered company unless you work directly for a university. You must also bepaid here and pay taxes.

It is possible to have a work permit and work at various locations.

In order to get a non immigrant B visa you will first need the work permit application completed.

[Maestro]

Are you holding these seminars on a continuous basis throughout the year, or just for a few days at a time with long intervals in between?

[Mondy]

Maestro, 1-2 weekends a month or even less. Thank u both for helping

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Maestro]

In this case you should look at the Notification for engagement in necessary and urgent work under Section 9 (Form WP.10), obtainable at the Department of Employment (DoE). The reference to Section 9 is a reference to the Alien Working Act B.E. 2551.

WP.10 Necessary and urgent work - S.9.pdf

The DoE's rules I could find for this are from 2002 and are in the following PDF file and they must have been renewed since then, as the current Alien Working Act is from 2008, but the clause 3.(a)(1) which allows "conference, discussion, seminar or business invitation works" has remained unchanged, I believe.

Urgent Work Acknowledgement rule BE 2545 - ThaiLaws.pdf

There is only a small government fee for this notification or none at all. If the inviting university feels unable to make this application on your behalf a law firm can assist them with it for a fee. There was a mention of this in this post in March 2007.

[Mondy]

Thanks Maestro,

I certainly fit under (3) special lecture and educational works, since my area of expertise isn't taught in Thai schools. But WP 10(Article 9) states "that work could be finished within a period of 15 days". Each lecture is 2-3 days on weekends. That would seem to negate living here(which I do as a tourist). Would that require me to bounce back and forth between non-imm and tourist(or student) visas?

One of the benefits of my residence to the university and course students is that they are not incurring the cost to fly me into the country and house me for each course. The courses are spread out so that they can actually retain and use the info/skills rather than 4 courses crammed into 1 week where they are missing work and lacking retention(which is how a few western courses which have not been tailored to the educational background here are offered now).

[Mario2008]

A work permit is only issued on a non-immigrant visa.

You apply for a special category, so can try to get the 15 day waiver with help of the university. But if you will go to separate universities in different parts of the country you will probably meet some labour offices that will insist on a non-immigrant visa. and the 15 day waiver doesn't seem to be what you want.

Your best option might be to get a non-B visa with the help of one of the university. Maybe have one of the universities employ you and the other universities hire you from the university that officially employs you. That should not be a problem, but must be mentioned in the WP together with that you will teach at other locations.

[Mondy]

Fozzy Bear,
Can a foreigner be employed(non-B ) on a per diem basis or with a small stipend like salary and per diem pay for weekend seminar teaching? These institutions are quite hungry to bring the field up to the western model of practice but I know that uncertainly and change from the normal way of doing things can be the 'hangman' of good ideas here.

[Mondy]

That was supposed to say: non-B. I don't know where that face came from

[Sophon]

That was supposed to say: non-B. I don't know where that face came from

"B"+")" is the code for that particular smiley, so the two next to each other becomes

Sophon

[ubonjoe]

That was supposed to say: non-B. I don't know where that face came from

It is gone now. I inserted a space behind the B. So that the coding does not think it should be smiley. I happens all the time.

[Maestro]

Thanks Maestro,

I certainly fit under (3) special lecture and educational works, since my area of expertise isn't taught in Thai schools. But WP 10(Article 9) states "that work could be finished within a period of 15 days". Each lecture is 2-3 days on weekends. That would seem to negate living here(which I do as a tourist). Would that require me to bounce back and forth between non-imm and tourist(or student) visas?

One of the benefits of my residence to the university and course students is that they are not incurring the cost to fly me into the country and house me for each course. The courses are spread out so that they can actually retain and use the info/skills rather than 4 courses crammed into 1 week where they are missing work and lacking retention(which is how a few western courses which have not been tailored to the educational background here are offered now).

As you mentioned your need for visas to travel to Thailand I understand that you are not a resident, ie you do not have a Certificate of Residence but are in Thailand on a temporary permission to stay.

The form TM.10 does not ask for your address. Aside from that, this form assumes that you are already in Thailand at the time of application, although application could also be made for a foreigner who is outside Thailand at that time: "Mr [name] has entered the Kingdom on [date] to work in the position of [position, eg seminar lecturer] for the period of...days"

I share Mario's doubts that the DoE may not be willing to give this permit to a foreigner in your situation, requiring it practically twice a month every month, but I believe it is worth sounding out this possibility with the DoE, more so since the employer will be different with each application, ie not one employer trying to abuse the system with repetitive claims for "necessary and urgent" employment of your services. From a logical point of view, I see good chances of it working for you. Furthermore, the applications will be made at the provincial office of the DoE where the university is located and I guess you will not conduct all your seminars in the same province.

Because a university may consider some of the company documents needed to apply for the permission to be confidential they will probably make you sign the completed application form and submit it themselves to the DoE with all the documents. It is usually done this way also with regular work permits for the same reason.

I would be interested to see how this plays out and it would also be of interest to others in a similar situation, eg a professional photographer occasionally employed by local photography businesses to cover a wedding or other event, a company needing expert help for a few days with a difficult IT problem, etc.

[Mondy]

Thanks Maestro,

Is there a minimum # of hours/week or salary needed to pay a foreigner for the work permit? I could certainly be happy with some token salary(100 baht) to obtain a work permit if I could be paid the appropriate fee(per diem?) for the weekend seminars. One uni wants me to teach the seminars to their instructors so I wonder if I could not be retained as a 'consultant' for that school. I don't know if they tax a salary and lump sum renumeration of teaching the seminar the same rate. I could picture that muddying the waters as well.

[Mario2008]

There is a minimum wage in Thailand, of around 300 baht per day. (differs a bit per province).

No known limit on the number of hours, but volunteers must have a minimum of 4 hours to get a WP and you will need to have the right number of hours, not only a token, as working without a work permit is a criminal offence and so is working 20 hours a week when your WP is only for a few hours a week.

[Mondy]

That certificate with 15 day waiver sounds quite good in the short run. I have been in the country a while(basically being a tourist) and even working on the two weekends could come close to getting me out of the red. I could get an education visa in May for the short run, teach 2-4 courses within the 15 days and see where to go from there. This has given me a better understanding before going to meet at the Univ.

thanks guys

[thepool]

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That certificate with 15 day waiver sounds quite good in the short run. I have been in the country a while(basically being a tourist) and even working on the two weekends could come close to getting me out of the red. I could get an education visa in May for the short run, teach 2-4 courses within the 15 days and see where to go from there. This has given me a better understanding before going to meet at the Univ.

thanks guys

Has this whole thread been about a scam to " get out of the red ?

Apologies if I have misunderstood.

[Mondy]

thepool,

I don't know where you came up with that. I am tired of spending money and not working. I am in the red over the last 6 months because I closed up shop and moved here as a tourist. If you are spending and not earning, you are going in the red.

[thepool]

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thepool,

I don't know where you came up with that. I am tired of spending money and not working. I am in the red over the last 6 months because I closed up shop and moved here as a tourist. If you are spending and not earning, you are going in the red.

With respect, I did not "come up" with it you wrote it !

So to be clear you are in Thailand now and you have a valid tourist visa ?

That may be important knowledge for those who have been attempting to advise you.

[Mondy]

I am in Thailand and have a tourist visa.

[Mondy]

thepool,

My apologies if I sounded short with my response. Your question seemed accusatory but was certainly polite enough upon second reading. I am not 'in the red' as an individual and could live here nicely for several years without earning a living. But since I am not making a living here, I am 'in the red' for this whole adventure. I originally thought that I would 'break even' on this sabbatical by teaching English. After discovering the demand for my skill set here(I am a physical therapist with extensive osteopathic manual therapy training), I stopped looking for teaching jobs and started exploring this more logical option. After my break from treating ortho and chronic pain patients, I have found that I miss it. Teaching what I know could be fun, lucrative and fulfilling since PT here is many years behind the west. Sorry for the confusion and lack of specificity.