Air CON,, Interverter or no inverter, Does it matter

[SpectrumAudio]

Can anyone tell me the big difference of inverter and non inverter? cost, operational, and maintenance, thanks

I have never herd of inverter as in USA its all Central Ducted AC.

[sirineou]

The way I understand it , and some one might be able to explain it better, The inverter helps with the initial start of the motor,

You know how in the US systems the AC draws a lot of juice when it first starts. An inverter helps with that.

So an AC with an inerter will consume less electricity, and because it requires less star-up current you might be able to operate it with a lower wattage generator.if need be.

So the decision is Higher initial investment and lower monthly bills, or lower initial investment and higher monthly electric bills.

I hope I did not screw up this explanation too much

[55Jay]

^ that's my basic understanding as well. Compressor keeps going so don't have the big power draws when the temp gauge triggers and the compressor has to wind up again.

Seem to recall it is especially beneficial if you plan to leave the a/c running all the time, not like many folks in Thailand, just use it in the bedroom at night when sleeping. Sure others will be along in the morning with much better info.

Edited April 13, 2014 by 55Jay

[IMHO]

Non-inverters have 2 compressor motor speeds: 0% or 100% so must cycle on/off once near to the target temperature in order to maintain the correct level of cooling power - inverters have completely variable speed control, so can simply slow down the compressor as they approach the target temp.

If the AC is properly sized for the room, inverters can achieve far better efficiency - but with a higher initial cost.

If you're going to run AC for >8 hours per day, an inverter will generally reach payback in 2-3 years. If you're only an occasional AC user (or you undersize the AC for the room), inverters won't give you any overall cost savings.

In any case, the technology really doesn't matter - if you're looking to save money on electricity usage, all you want to be looking at is the EER Rating - that's the number that tells you how efficiently the AC turns electricity into cold air.. Some newer non-inverters are actually more energy efficient than first generation inverters..

[meatboy]

do the service men or the repair man have the knowledge to understand this new technology.nod nod that means - -.?

[T_Dog]

do the service men or the repair man have the knowledge to understand this new technology.nod nod that means - -.?

Wife's uncle is an AC man having worked extensively in the Middle East. He doesn't like the inverter types as it is tougher to troubleshoot the linear control system (rather than traditional compressor on-off) that the inverter units use. I decided against them for our house as I don't think the savings are worth the additional complexity.

[SpectrumAudio]

So correct me if I am wrong, An Inverter system is similar to the larger High end Ducted Central Air type where as the compressor is 100% variable. it can run at 100% or 49% or any number from 0 to 100. So in theory they should be more efficient to run right?

[IMHO]

So correct me if I am wrong, An Inverter system is similar to the larger High end Ducted Central Air type where as the compressor is 100% variable. it can run at 100% or 49% or any number from 0 to 100. So in theory they should be more efficient to run right?

Depends. Most central ducted systems still use normal compressors with non-variable speed, simply adjusting duty cycle timing to achieve the level of cooling required - i.e. if you dial it in at 50%, it's not running 50% slower, it's just not running 50% of the time. It's possible to have variable speed without inverters though, but generally speaking an AC motor speed controller is more expensive than a DC motor with an inverter controller.

Where ducted systems falter in TH is all the cooling lost in the air ducts, if they are placed inside the super-super-hot roof space. The only ducted systems you'll see in TH place the ducts *in* the cooled space (look up next time you're in Tesco Lotus, Central, the Airport etc) to help negate losses.

Edited April 14, 2014 by IMHO

[Langsuan Man]

Compare prices between the two and then decide if the increased cost is worth the increased electrical savings

Have been told that since the main problem with air conditioning in Thailand is the high humidity, the inverter types don't make much difference

But hopefully Naam will jump in here and provide a detailed explanation, if not, then see this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/524803-multi-inverter-daikin-ac-for-small-house/

[Mike45]

Non-inverters have 2 compressor motor speeds: 0% or 100% so must cycle on/off once near to the target temperature in order to maintain the correct level of cooling power - inverters have completely variable speed control, so can simply slow down the compressor as they approach the target temp.

If the AC is properly sized for the room, inverters can achieve far better efficiency - but with a higher initial cost.

If you're going to run AC for >8 hours per day, an inverter will generally reach payback in 2-3 years. If you're only an occasional AC user (or you undersize the AC for the room), inverters won't give you any overall cost savings.

In any case, the technology really doesn't matter - if you're looking to save money on electricity usage, all you want to be looking at is the EER Rating - that's the number that tells you how efficiently the AC turns electricity into cold air.. Some newer non-inverters are actually more energy efficient than first generation inverters..

I think this is probably the most important statement

" If the AC is properly sized for the room,"

I've had three people cine and assess my AC needs.

They look around and throw out numbers 9000, 12000, 18000

One guy says two identical rooms need different 9000 and 12000 because one is facing west....its not!

I told them the walls were Q-Con they weren't interested.

I showed my wife from the outside of the house the bedroom that needed 12000.

The large roof eves had the walls and windows of the room completely shaded.

I don't want air blowing on me when im in bed so a choose a wall not facing into the middle of the room. Can Not!

Seriously how do you determine what size AC the room needs? Does the air have to blow directly at you in bed or on the couch? Which compass direction will be hottest?

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Langsuan Man]

Makes no difference which compass direction. What matter's is how your house and rooms are oriented.

At least one wall will have to face outward so that the compressor unit can be mounted there and so the piping can run into room. The blower unit can be anywhere in the room so long as you don't mind paying more for installation and having a long run of piping , up to the manufacturers maximum recommendation

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[Mike45]

Sorry I wasn't being clear. What I meant by compass direction was which sides of the house are supposed to be warmer. North, South, etc.

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[transam]

Inverter is very quiet in operation, none of that annoying clicking on and off. Had my Daikin now for 7 years with no probs except cleaning. I like the swing function, does not blow in one place, perhaps they all have that.

PS. My UK A/C engineer chum advised me to buy Daikin Inverter. Far less call outs than others.

[IMHO]

Sorry I wasn't being clear. What I meant by compass direction was which sides of the house are supposed to be warmer. North, South, etc.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The hottest rooms will always be those with windows that catch direct sunlight.. that's the primary factor.

[Mike45]

Sorry I wasn't being clear. What I meant by compass direction was which sides of the house are supposed to be warmer. North, South, etc.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The hottest rooms will always be those with windows that catch direct sunlight.. that's the primary factor.

Good point! I'll have to make it out to the construction site during the morning to assess the situation at that time.

I also forgot to say that I had 150 mm of insulation put in the ceiling. None of the people that quoted the job cared about it or the qcon block.

The windows are all Windsor vinyl with 8mm of green glass.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[IMHO]

Sorry I wasn't being clear. What I meant by compass direction was which sides of the house are supposed to be warmer. North, South, etc.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The hottest rooms will always be those with windows that catch direct sunlight.. that's the primary factor.

Good point! I'll have to make it out to the construction site during the morning to assess the situation at that time.

I also forgot to say that I had 150 mm of insulation put in the ceiling. None of the people that quoted the job cared about it or the qcon block.

The windows are all Windsor vinyl with 8mm of green glass.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Having better insulation, minimizing direct sunlight on windows etc will help reduce operational costs for an AC, but you still need a unit that can reduce ambient to desired temp within a reasonable timeframe, and that has enough capacity to dehumidify the volume of air in the room...

Even with all best practices for insulating and avoiding heat in the first place, the standard AC sizing rules still apply - the benefit you've gained is lower operational costs.

[Mike45]

Sorry I wasn't being clear. What I meant by compass direction was which sides of the house are supposed to be warmer. North, South, etc.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The hottest rooms will always be those with windows that catch direct sunlight.. that's the primary factor.

Good point! I'll have to make it out to the construction site during the morning to assess the situation at that time.

I also forgot to say that I had 150 mm of insulation put in the ceiling. None of the people that quoted the job cared about it or the qcon block.

The windows are all Windsor vinyl with 8mm of green glass.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Having better insulation, minimizing direct sunlight on windows etc will help reduce operational costs for an AC, but you still need a unit that can reduce ambient to desired temp within a reasonable timeframe, and that has enough capacity to dehumidify the volume of air in the room...

Even with all best practices for insulating and avoiding heat in the first place, the standard AC sizing rules still apply - the benefit you've gained is lower operational costs.

Thanks for that explanation. I hadn't considered that the size remains the same.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[IMHO]

Thanks for that explanation. I hadn't considered that the size remains the same.

Sent from my HUAWEI MT1-U06 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

With a reduced amount of heat sources, cooling will be quicker, and it'll be cheaper to maintain the desired temp, but a 4x4x3 meter room at 35c still has 48 cubic meters of hot air to cool down and dehumidify