Stop paying AC costs. New Way.

[gypsyrodeo]

Great idea by Choko, thanks for posting I have been looking recently at a cooling solution before this years summer takes hold.

I am going to make one of these in a few weeks and have already thought about some improvements to the design.

Before I share them; antagonists please note:-

1. My water bottles will be frozen FREE of charge.

2. I only want to cool a very small room for 12 hours a day for a few days/weeks.

Now for the improvements.

1. I am going to fasten (double sided sticky foam) the Styrofoam box centrally on top of an 11" pan. The pan will be placed centrally onto a rubber mat on my record player, this will create enough headroom for me to leave the tonearm off it's rest, allowing the cooler to rotate and the air to circulate more efficiently. This requires a modification of the fan mounting so that the fan and its motor can rotate around the fan housing to avoid the cable getting tangled up, I will design that once I have the fan in front of me.

2. I will also add salt to the water as this lowers the freezing temperature of the water which will increase efficiency by allowing the bottle to stay nearer to zero celcius once melted than ordinary water would.

3. Cut a hole in the ceiling so the hot air that is lighter than cold air has somewhere to float up through

Benefits:-

Better air circulation than 1st design model

Cooler stays colder and for longer

You know exactly what’s in it, environmentally safe salt and water, no mysterious chemicals or gases like a commercial air conditioner uses

chiang mai is now the epicenter of a scientific renaissance …unbelievably brilliant….turn the player up to 78

[sirineou]

whatever some people might think... this has evolved into the most entertaining "aircon" thread in ThaiVisa!

I second that sentiment

Thank you GypsyRodeo for a very entertaining thread

[heybruce]

Great idea by Choko, thanks for posting I have been looking recently at a cooling solution before this years summer takes hold.

I am going to make one of these in a few weeks and have already thought about some improvements to the design.

Before I share them; antagonists please note:-

1. My water bottles will be frozen FREE of charge.

2. I only want to cool a very small room for 12 hours a day for a few days/weeks.

Now for the improvements.

1. I am going to fasten (double sided sticky foam) the Styrofoam box centrally on top of an 11" pan. The pan will be placed centrally onto a rubber mat on my record player, this will create enough headroom for me to leave the tonearm off it's rest, allowing the cooler to rotate and the air to circulate more efficiently. This requires a modification of the fan mounting so that the fan and its motor can rotate around the fan housing to avoid the cable getting tangled up, I will design that once I have the fan in front of me.

2. I will also add salt to the water as this lowers the freezing temperature of the water which will increase efficiency by allowing the bottle to stay nearer to zero celcius once melted than ordinary water would.

3. Cut a hole in the ceiling so the hot air that is lighter than cold air has somewhere to float up through

Benefits:-

Better air circulation than 1st design model

Cooler stays colder and for longer

You know exactly what’s in it, environmentally safe salt and water, no mysterious chemicals or gases like a commercial air conditioner uses

This is the kind of cooling this system is good at. The fact that you are getting the ice for free is a bonus.

One suggestion and one observation:

If you want a more even distribution of the cool air, just take the top off the cooler and blow the fan air directly on the ice. Use an oscillating fan if the want to mix the air up a bit. All of the cooling is coming from the temperature rise and melting the ice, the pipes are just there to direct the flow of the cooled air. If you want the cooled air distributed evenly you don't have to make the system more complicated, you can make it simpler. It won't look as clever if you are blowing a fan on a cooler of ice, but it will work as well.

The majority of the cooling effect comes from the ice melting. A lot of people don't realize this, it takes 334 kilojoules of energy to turn a kilogram of ice at 0 degrees Celsius to a kilogram of water at 0 degrees Celsius. To put in another way, you get as much cooling effect by letting a kilogram of ice melt at a constant 0 degrees Celsius as you get from letting 16 kilograms of ice increase in temperature from -10 degrees Celsius to 0 degrees. Some sample calculations are here http://chemistry.about.com/od/workedchemistryproblems/a/Heat-Capacity-Phase-Change-Example-Problem.htm. Adding salt to the water will change the specific heat and heat of fusion a little but not a lot, and so will not impact the effectiveness of the system in any significant way. So adding salt won't hurt, but it won't help either.

[Thaddeus]

3. Cut a hole in the ceiling so the hot air that is lighter than cold air has somewhere to float up through

That isn't a bad idea, do you think that you can create a tinted hole so that the sunlight doesn't get in and negate the effect

[onthedarkside]

Off topic post removed.

[Tywais]

Off topic post removed again regarding a 'wedding'.

[belg]

and i tought a freezer works best when you put in much stuff like those bottles... as when it is frozen, it will use less electricity ...

[heybruce]

and i tought a freezer works best when you put in much stuff like those bottles... as when it is frozen, it will use less electricity ...

A freezer that is full of frozen stuff will stay cold longer if you turn it off, for the same reason that a big block of ice takes longer to melt than a small block of ice.

Constantly taking cold stuff out of a freezer and putting warm stuff in to be frozen makes the freezer work harder and use more electricity, just as a heavily laden car in stop and go traffic will use more fuel. The harder you make anything work, the more energy that thing requires.

[quidnunc]

and i tought a freezer works best when you put in much stuff like those bottles... as when it is frozen, it will use less electricity ...

A freezer that is full of frozen stuff will stay cold longer if you turn it off, for the same reason that a big block of ice takes longer to melt than a small block of ice.

Constantly taking cold stuff out of a freezer and putting warm stuff in to be frozen makes the freezer work harder and use more electricity, just as a heavily laden car in stop and go traffic will use more fuel. The harder you make anything work, the more energy that thing requires.

But if you have lot of frozen stuff in the freezer it will stabilize the temperature for longer so that the freezer won't have to turn on and off as much which saves wear and tear on the compressor.

[rhythmworx]

Picture this....

A person is on a skateboard kicking his foot using that energy to gain momentum and keep at a constant speed on flat ground, when he comes to a downward hill the energy is FREE, free kinetic energy gained by the beautiful laws of gravity all being transferred in to heat, speed and sound, saving his legs from strain.....Whoooosh!

With the Styro-cooler that's where the magical insulating properties of polystyrene come in to the equation...Once the bottles are frozen, it's free insulation for the bottles as they are not in a warm room but in a nice cold box.

If you want to save that little bit extra fill the bottles with your own urine, that will also save on the water bill.

It's a win win situation AFAIK.

[heybruce]

Picture this....

A person is on a skateboard kicking his foot using that energy to gain momentum and keep at a constant speed on flat ground, when he comes to a downward hill the energy is FREE, free kinetic energy gained by the beautiful laws of gravity all being transferred in to heat, speed and sound, saving his legs from strain.....Whoooosh!

With the Styro-cooler that's where the magical insulating properties of polystyrene come in to the equation...Once the bottles are frozen, it's free insulation for the bottles as they are not in a warm room but in a nice cold box.

If you want to save that little bit extra fill the bottles with your own urine, that will also save on the water bill.

It's a win win situation AFAIK.

A sealed styrofoam container provides insulation.

Punch holes in the styrofoam container and force air through the container and you no longer have insulation.

The skateboard example, or more generally converting gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, doesn't seem relevant. Unless you are content to stay at the bottom of the hill you are going to have to climb back up.

[rhythmworx]

Picture this....

A person is on a skateboard kicking his foot using that energy to gain momentum and keep at a constant speed on flat ground, when he comes to a downward hill the energy is FREE, free kinetic energy gained by the beautiful laws of gravity all being transferred in to heat, speed and sound, saving his legs from strain.....Whoooosh!

With the Styro-cooler that's where the magical insulating properties of polystyrene come in to the equation...Once the bottles are frozen, it's free insulation for the bottles as they are not in a warm room but in a nice cold box.

If you want to save that little bit extra fill the bottles with your own urine, that will also save on the water bill.

It's a win win situation AFAIK.

A sealed styrofoam container provides insulation.

Punch holes in the styrofoam container and force air through the container and you no longer have insulation.

The skateboard example, or more generally converting gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, doesn't seem relevant. Unless you are content to stay at the bottom of the hill you are going to have to climb back up.

Yes you lose some insulation properties but it is still cooler than having the bottles stood upright in the room as a previous poster mentioned. However I did like his ideas on keeping it simple.

#skateboarding You don't need to climb back up the hill if there's a bus service (or if you give your mate a ring to pick you up) and if there wasn't it's part of the fun of skating down a hill.

The concept is free energy downhill.

Ask any committed snowboarder/mountain biker/base jumper if they will climb the biggest hill for the biggest drop and they will all 100% say hell yeah....unless daddy can get his pilot to pick them up in the chopper.

Ask a snowboarder if he wants aircon in his chalet/room you will get the opposite answer.

[Thaddeus]

#skateboarding You don't need to climb back up the hill if there's a bus service (or if you give your mate a ring to pick you up) and if there wasn't it's part of the fun of skating down a hill.

The concept is free energy downhill.

And of course, the fuel in the bus or pick-up is free.

[Tokay]

Great for those times when you lose power and still want air in your bedroom. Always keep some frozen bottles around and a battery, power be gone, I'm still sleeping in a cool room.

[NotEinstein]

I made one of these for my mother-in-law, so that she can sleep.

She lives in the typical old Thai wooden house on stilts.

She liked the cooling but the increase in humidity is a problem.

When is the dehumidifer attachment going to be available?

Edited April 30, 2014 by NotEinstein

[heybruce]

Picture this....

A person is on a skateboard kicking his foot using that energy to gain momentum and keep at a constant speed on flat ground, when he comes to a downward hill the energy is FREE, free kinetic energy gained by the beautiful laws of gravity all being transferred in to heat, speed and sound, saving his legs from strain.....Whoooosh!

With the Styro-cooler that's where the magical insulating properties of polystyrene come in to the equation...Once the bottles are frozen, it's free insulation for the bottles as they are not in a warm room but in a nice cold box.

If you want to save that little bit extra fill the bottles with your own urine, that will also save on the water bill.

It's a win win situation AFAIK.

A sealed styrofoam container provides insulation.

Punch holes in the styrofoam container and force air through the container and you no longer have insulation.

The skateboard example, or more generally converting gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, doesn't seem relevant. Unless you are content to stay at the bottom of the hill you are going to have to climb back up.

Yes you lose some insulation properties but it is still cooler than having the bottles stood upright in the room as a previous poster mentioned. However I did like his ideas on keeping it simple.

#skateboarding You don't need to climb back up the hill if there's a bus service (or if you give your mate a ring to pick you up) and if there wasn't it's part of the fun of skating down a hill.

The concept is free energy downhill.

Ask any committed snowboarder/mountain biker/base jumper if they will climb the biggest hill for the biggest drop and they will all 100% say hell yeah....unless daddy can get his pilot to pick them up in the chopper.

Ask a snowboarder if he wants aircon in his chalet/room you will get the opposite answer.

"Yes you lose some insulation properties but it is still cooler than having the bottles stood upright in the room as a previous poster mentioned."?

Are you claiming that the bottles are better insulated in a styrfoam box with holes in it and air being forced over the bottles? It depends on how fast the air is moving, but at most fan speeds the ice will melt faster because heat is being transferred to the bottles faster.

Some people are resisting a simple truth: The air is cooled as it transfers heat to the ice, which melts the ice. Insulation slows down the heat transfer, so it slows down the cooling effect of the ice. Forcing air over the ice speeds up the heat transfer so it cools the room faster. Fans and styrofoam allow you to adjust the rate of heat transfer, and the pipes in the original design allow you to direct the flow of the cooled air, but they don't change the net cooling effect of the ice.

I still don't see the relevance to going down hill, unless you are stating that getting a free lift back to the top of the hill is the equivalent to using free ice. Most people won't get their ice for free.

[Naam]

I made one of these for my mother-in-law, so that she can sleep.

She lives in the typical old Thai wooden house on stilts.

She liked the cooling but the increase in humidity is a problem.

When is the dehumidifer attachment going to be available?

you didn't make anything! evidence is your claim increase in humidity.

[Thaijack2014]

In Home Pro I saw a cooler that is built on the same principle starting at over 6000 Baht. Not expensive I would say, but probably more effective! You can also look at www.masterkool.com

[sirineou]

I made one of these for my mother-in-law, so that she can sleep.

She lives in the typical old Thai wooden house on stilts.

She liked the cooling but the increase in humidity is a problem.

When is the dehumidifer attachment going to be available?

You are No Einstein

The dehumidifying affect comes from the fact that the liquid medium is sealed in the Coke bottles. But with the addition of the suggestion that some one made to use one's urine to fill the bottles not only will you save on your electric bill but also on your water bill , and also have pretty and politically correct Yellow ice.

Unless of course you live in Issan in which case the Yellow ice will only raise the temperature .

[rhythmworx]

In Home Pro I saw a cooler that is built on the same principle starting at over 6000 Baht. Not expensive I would say, but probably more effective! You can also look at www.masterkool.com

I have a 20,000 baht portable air conditioner which works a treat, the only problem is where to exhaust the hot air from its 5 foot outlet pipe.

It is not suitable for my room and it's noisy too.

To the other poster, I also have a dehumidifier but that just releases heat into the room and dries my eyes out so bad that they scratch like Mixmaster Mike.

[NotEinstein]

 

I made one of these for my mother-in-law, so that she can sleep.

She lives in the typical old Thai wooden house on stilts.

She liked the cooling but the increase in humidity is a problem.

When is the dehumidifer attachment going to be available?

you didn't make anything! evidence is your claim increase in humidity.

 

Actually, I did make some things:

1. A slightly cooled mother-in-law (advantageous if eating breakfast with her).

2. Contribution to the consume-profit money-go-round paradigm through buying a fan and styrofoam box from Makro. (economy is our god - feed it or die!)

3. Contribution to climate change (Styrofoam's magical CO2 absorbing qualities only offset coal-fired power production slightly).

4. OTOP activity (The village jungle-drums strirred the 'copy, make money' meme - see 2.)

[Thaddeus]

 

I made one of these for my mother-in-law, so that she can sleep.

She lives in the typical old Thai wooden house on stilts.

She liked the cooling but the increase in humidity is a problem.

When is the dehumidifer attachment going to be available?

you didn't make anything! evidence is your claim increase in humidity.

3. Contribution to climate change (Styrofoam's magical CO2 absorbing qualities only offset coal-fired power production slightly).

CO2 is used in the production of Styrofoam, it isn't absorbed by it later.

One of the advantages of Styro over other materials used for insulation and shock protection is that when incinerated it produces relatively little CO2 compared to others.

Please get your science right. (I think I may have picked the wrong thread to say that)

Edited May 1, 2014 by Thaddeus

[Naam]

In Home Pro I saw a cooler that is built on the same principle starting at over 6000 Baht. Not expensive I would say, but probably more effective! You can also look at www.masterkool.com

totally different principle. this unit uses evaporation to cool the air but will fail to do so when the air to cool is saturated with humidity.

[NotEinstein]

 

 

I made one of these for my mother-in-law, so that she can sleep.

She lives in the typical old Thai wooden house on stilts.

She liked the cooling but the increase in humidity is a problem.

When is the dehumidifer attachment going to be available?

you didn't make anything! evidence is your claim increase in humidity.

But Tha

3. Contribution to climate change (Styrofoam's magical CO2 absorbing qualities only offset coal-fired power production slightly).

CO2 is used in the production of Styrofoam, it isn't absorbed by it later.

One of the advantages of Styro over other materials used for insulation and shock protection is that when incinerated it produces relatively little CO2 compared to others.

Please get your science right. (I think I may have picked the wrong thread to say that)

 

But Thaddeus, you are not up-to-date with the latest styro-scientific discoveries......

Yes, CO2 is used in the production of styrofoam (being pedantic one could say that about anything that needs electricity for production - or even human labour, as we all breathe out).

The big but is that, Thai styrofoam has the unique property of being able to sense any unatural levels in its immediate environment and react accordingly. Granted this is an unintentioned side-effect of durian odour supression and the countering of the ill-effects of over-heated lottery number discussions.

[Brevity]

Perfect for humid countries.

You could messure the daily mould growt with a meter stick.

I haven't read all the posts, but I have seen a few suggesting or claiming that the humidity level will rise greatly in the room where the OP's device is used.

But if plastic bottles of water are used, as suggested, wouldn't some humidity actually be removed from the air as the moist air enters the device and condenses on the frozen bottles then collects in the bottom of the container? Of course there is going to be some evaporation of the water that collects in the container, but wouldn't it be at a much slower rate than the condensation due to to the big difference in the temperature of the ice vs the cold water collected at the bottom?

[Thaijack2014]

These devices of masterkool don't send dry air into your room. On the contrary. I think it is best to let your door or windows open, because of the moist air it will blow out. There is a container with water inside underneath, which you can cool with ice. The water takes out the heat and cool air comes out...

Sent from my GT-P6800 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thaddeus]

 

CO2 is used in the production of Styrofoam, it isn't absorbed by it later.

One of the advantages of Styro over other materials used for insulation and shock protection is that when incinerated it produces relatively little CO2 compared to others.

Please get your science right. (I think I may have picked the wrong thread to say that)

 

But Thaddeus, you are not up-to-date with the latest styro-scientific discoveries......

Yes, CO2 is used in the production of styrofoam (being pedantic one could say that about anything that needs electricity for production - or even human labour, as we all breathe out).

The big but is that, Thai styrofoam has the unique property of being able to sense any unatural levels in its immediate environment and react accordingly. Granted this is an unintentioned side-effect of durian odour supression and the countering of the ill-effects of over-heated lottery number discussions.

Proof please.

[heybruce]

In Home Pro I saw a cooler that is built on the same principle starting at over 6000 Baht. Not expensive I would say, but probably more effective! You can also look at www.masterkool.com

totally different principle. this unit uses evaporation to cool the air but will fail to do so when the air to cool is saturated with humidity.

You usually don't want to cool already cold air, at least not in a living area.

Evaporative coolers work well in a dry climate, I used one for many years to cool my house in New Mexico; it was quite effective and much cheaper than using an air conditioner. However when the humidity is high the air can absorb less additional water and the cooling effect is greatly reduced, so they're not very effective during hot, humid days. I haven't tried one in Thailand, I think it would be effective during most hot days, but I'm not certain.

[gypsyrodeo]

I've now had my STYROFOAM ac for 1 week..the cooling results have exceeded my expectations and 90% of the opinions posted here…so much of the math posted on these comments is flat out WRONG

[Naam]

Yes you lose some insulation properties but it is still cooler than having the bottles stood upright in the room as a previous poster mentioned. However I did like his ideas on keeping it simple.

#skateboarding You don't need to climb back up the hill if there's a bus service (or if you give your mate a ring to pick you up) and if there wasn't it's part of the fun of skating down a hill.

The concept is free energy downhill.

Ask any committed snowboarder/mountain biker/base jumper if they will climb the biggest hill for the biggest drop and they will all 100% say hell yeah....unless daddy can get his pilot to pick them up in the chopper.

Ask a snowboarder if he wants aircon in his chalet/room you will get the opposite answer.

even a snowboarder wants airconditioning in his chalet. airconditioning does not mean "cooling only" but "conditioning air" which includes heating, humidifying, dehumidifying and filtering the air.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Naam