Abhisit to meet varied groups seeking way out of political crisis

[DirtFarmer]

kuhnken..

Of course they are relvant as are others written by other Thais because they provide the backdrop for what is happening currently...

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

kuhnken said...

I ignored the first link as it is hardly relevant to the present day or even century. I waded through the second link and could find nothing relevant to your claim. Again you make incorrect assumptions.

No I won't bother with any more of your links as they are either irrelevant or as biased as you yourself are.

If you want to use links to back up your claims, add the relevant quote as well as the link. Save sending (deliberately?) someone on a wild goose chase.

One wood I can clearly see is your disingenious and failed effort to claim fairness. You yourself seem to spend more time among the trees of web sites that too often are constructed (or added to in Wikis case) by those with an agenda.

Anyway, good day to you.

your refusal to address the age old underlying factors only displays the shallowness you are limited by in trying to understand the game that is being played out... now If you had a more un biased agenda and an understanding of perspective.. taught by History which here is clearly repeated over and over again in the LOS via the same tactics just different faces you may think differently... on second thought naw... don't waste your time... you are stuck in a varry narrow Soi and prefer to stay there I wish you all the best seeya in a coupla years after your One Trick Pony fails the hurdle again... meanwhile I offer additional links to provide you avenues of genuine research to do... in case you may be interested I enjoyed reading most of them...Cheers!

A History of Thailand, Thaksin:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=TEdueeBj1H0C&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=A+History+of+Thailand,+Thaksin:&source=bl&ots=Gt0Z6mPVlL&sig=oij5Jb90RzOl76L6QecWPnozPr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9kNaU760Dsb9rAertYHQDg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=A%20History%20of%20Thailand%2C%20Thaksin%3A&f=false

Thailand: Economy and Politics

Myths and Realities: The Democratization of Thai Politics (Kyoto Area Studies on Asia)

http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Realities-Democratization-Politics-Studies/dp/1920901418/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1MTGAWWBKFCTZ3S1ZEYE

Thaispring

June 3, 2013 · Bangkok ·

Brief details of corruption under the abhisit regime

The Abhisit government was charged in several cases of corruption, particularly related to spending under the Thai Khem Khaeng economic stimulus program. After much public pressure, Abhisit appointed Banlu Siripanich head of an investigative committee to investigate allegations within the Ministry of Public Health. Banlu's committee's findings included: bribery by a supplier of ambulances; irregularities in the purchase of UV fans; overspending on construction of building; inflated prices for machines and equipment. Public Health Minister and Democrat MP Witthaya Kaewparadai, Deputy Minister from Bhumjaithai Party Manit Nop-amornbodi (who was in charge of the projects) resigned due to the scandal.

Abhisit's Social Development and Human Security Minister also resigned due to a corruption scandal. In addition, Apirak Kosayodhin, the Democrat Party Governor of Bangkok, were indicted by the National Counter Corruption Commission on 11 November 2008 for corruption in the purchase of 6.6 billion baht in fire-fighting equipment. Apirak resigned from his office on 13 November.

Flood victims in Phatthalung province became nauseous after eating canned fish products which were donated through the Social Development and Human Security Ministry. Opposition party spokesman, Prompong Nopparit accused Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr of corruption in the procurement of the fish. Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr insisted there was no irregularities and that the ministry did not procure them for distribution. However, he later resigned to take responsibility for this situation

Abhisit's government came under accusations that the 26 billion baht Sufficiency Economy Community project was tainted with corruption. Abhisit replied to the accusations by suggesting that the "alleged malpractice might have originated during the period when the office was in charge of managing small, medium, and large (SML) enterprises…. The SML project was created by the Thaksin Shinawatra government."

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Nothing you say contradicts anything I have posted Abhisit as as useful to the Thai Nation as Nipples on a turtle... your inference that Wiki is less than accurate flies full in the face of reality but never mind clearly you are too lazy and self satisfied with your piety to broaden your horizons... and that is your choice... and your right.. my opinions are just that...mine.. but I rarely make them known unless I have at least done some homework. Something that I am not afraid to do because I do not know it all and am eager to know more... but certainly am not learning anything here with you

Pasuk Phongpaichit

is probably one of the most well written and respect Professors at Chula and can hardly be ignored having documented a very wide spectrum of Thai Politics and has an irrefutable level of expertise... I defer to her.. you can google her name and check her out..

Books by Pasuk Phongpaichit

http://www.amazon.com/Pasuk-Phongpaichit/e/B001IO9SWS/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0

KHUNKUN SAID

Just one final comment Dirtfarmer.

You posted a piece of crap from a website called Thaispring. I took one look and saw a photo of Thaksin as a champion of democracy & that was enough.

In other words posting 'proof' of what you say from a biased site is totally dishonest. You have made your links worthless & I have no intention of following any more of them. All you are doing is spreading lies and disinformation.

Yadda yadda yadda... you have your head firmly in the sand... no need to embarrass yourself any further... your inability to look beyond your nose is abundantly clear... . I would suggest you educate yourself further on the background of all that is Thai politics as the drivel you post and the posts that you p on reflect a very narrow Soi and Soi Dog,, ( thought you love that link lolol) ... learn to read some books don't take what is posted written and controlled Thai Media as verdad... it isn't... there is not free press here... it is all bought and paid for...follow the money...so to even pretend to have an authoritative position based on The Nation or BKK Post is extremely limited,,, I don't need to prove anything to you if you want to broaden your horizons the information and resources are out there I gave you half a dozen sources educate yourself or spew pablum it is your choice...

sorry for the mulit-posts had a power outage mid stream

Edited April 26, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[GunterChiangMai]

Ohhhh it is Mark from Eton! Does he make Poo now?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[noitom]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Mr Abhisit, on a four-minute video clip publicised on YouTube at 3pm Thursday, said the present political situation could not be left like this as it has affected the economy, leading to corruption, while the general public is stressed due to the violent conflicts."

Superb assessment coming from one who has been very much instrumental in affecting this whole mess...

"He said this was not the time to quarrel or blame each other as everyone including the Democrat party were responsible in drawing the country into this position."

That's correct and thanks for having the eggs to admit you were part of it.

"Mr Abhisit said he proposed a solution to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and anti government protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, People's Democratic Reform Committee secretary general as litigants to hold talks. However, he believed, there would be no talks as proposed."

​You knew the answer to that months ago...nothing new here... but nice of you to conveniently draw the lines of conflict between her and him just two paragraphs after admitting you and the Dems were partly to blame.

"The Democrat Party leader said that he decided to be part of the attempt to solve the crisis."

Well that's very generous. but you are part and parcel of the problem... oh wait that's right it is a conflict between her and him.. so you construct a two party conflict and show up on your high white horse to save the day... a noble gesture..

"He said a general election is not a final answer to the problem, that counting the number of supporters, which group has more supporters, cannot not bring peace to the country. The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move. A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

No of course not.. an election is the last thing you want... That point has been hammered home ad nauseum.. and you are right counting supporters is just part of the smoke and mirrors.. but I beg to differ with this...

"... The Court verdict cannot say what direction the country should move."

That may be your idealistic offering but the reality of which direction this country moves may very well be in the hands of the Court.. Either way it goes for or against the caretaker PM.. it will very much decide which way things are headed..

"A coup is also no solution to regain peace."

That depends on which side you sit... but the idea is to get people together and not divide by violence and with that I agree whole wholeheartedly .

"Mr Abhisit said reform should be the answer."

Well there ya have the gist folks... "should be the answer" no doubt about what your intention is there..

But until anybody actually does anything about reform nothing will change... that reform will take decades. No Democrat Party dictate, at this point will truly reform anything in less than that. Reform is a great word to bandy about and hoist as a banner but anyone who has spent anytime here at all.. realizes that is not going to happen too many snouts in the trough for way too long..

"He said he would meet Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittipong Kittayarak tomorrow and Reform Now Network and to meet Supreme Commander Gen Tanasak Patimapragornon Monday to discuss solutions for a way out of the crisis.

The former prime minister also planned to meet Election Commission and representatives of the government, political parties and protest leaders.

He has asked for an opportunity to work in the mission to start national reform."

All lovely rhetoric with no substance whatsoever... Nothing new here.. just another of the 2 week campaign

Abhisit Challenges...

Abhisit Advises

Abhisit Warns

Abhisit Offers

Abhiset offers to meet

Abhiset says elections not the answer

Abhisit Skips Forum

Abhisit this Abhisit that . Why in the world has this man who believes, truly believes he is a leader not led anything.. For the short time he was in office and including the time since..what has he led? What reforms has he fronted? What pieces of legislation NOT tilted towards his own parties benefit has he offered to benefit the Thai People... the ones that aren't in his circle?..

I just don't have any belief that this all is anything more than lip service at an opportune time to charge in, grab headlines and appear as the uber-mediator..None of the things in this piece has he affected... they are all yet to be done..

And in a related thread he offers to give his proposals for solving the problems..in a day or two.

Not holding my breath...

Excellent analysis. When he had the chance for two years, we heard nothing about specific reforms. He had no vision of Thailand for the future, no methodology for affecting and change. A few months ago he sabotaged the democratic election process by not showing up. Now he sees opportunity and comes forward again in another empty suit.

[khunken]

kuhnken..

Of course they are relvant as are others written by other Thais because they provide the backdrop for what is happening currently...

Ignore the links I provided above that you asked for... shows the kind of research you do... and continue your schoolyard garbage at will. If you bothered to reach outside the press provided here you would see a lot more without tinting things, clearly that is to much to ask ... if you think for one minute that full story from the Nation or even the BK Post ( though a bit less jaded) you are truly blinkered... here's another website... and report done in 2004 .. usually I respond or comment to what the OP is and I'll leave it at that.. you sir clearly cannot see the forrest from the trees..but nice try..

http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/TH/Corruption_in_Thailand.pdf

http://assassinationthaksin.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/thaksin-corruption-what-transparency-international-says-vs-what-elite-thai-establishment-says/

kuhnken said...

I ignored the first link as it is hardly relevant to the present day or even century. I waded through the second link and could find nothing relevant to your claim. Again you make incorrect assumptions.

No I won't bother with any more of your links as they are either irrelevant or as biased as you yourself are.

If you want to use links to back up your claims, add the relevant quote as well as the link. Save sending (deliberately?) someone on a wild goose chase.

One wood I can clearly see is your disingenious and failed effort to claim fairness. You yourself seem to spend more time among the trees of web sites that too often are constructed (or added to in Wikis case) by those with an agenda.

Anyway, good day to you.

your refusal to address the age old underlying factors only displays the shallowness you are limited by in trying to understand the game that is being played out... now If you had a more un biased agenda and an understanding of perspective.. taught by History which here is clearly repeated over and over again in the LOS via the same tactics just different faces you may think differently... on second thought naw... don't waste your time... you are stuck in a varry narrow Soi and prefer to stay there I wish you all the best seeya in a coupla years after your One Trick Pony fails the hurdle again... meanwhile I offer additional links to provide you avenues of genuine research to do... in case you may be interested I enjoyed reading most of them...Cheers!

A History of Thailand, Thaksin:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=TEdueeBj1H0C&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=A+History+of+Thailand,+Thaksin:&source=bl&ots=Gt0Z6mPVlL&sig=oij5Jb90RzOl76L6QecWPnozPr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9kNaU760Dsb9rAertYHQDg&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=A%20History%20of%20Thailand%2C%20Thaksin%3A&f=false

Thailand: Economy and Politics

Myths and Realities: The Democratization of Thai Politics (Kyoto Area Studies on Asia)

http://www.amazon.com/Myths-Realities-Democratization-Politics-Studies/dp/1920901418/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1MTGAWWBKFCTZ3S1ZEYE

Thaispring

June 3, 2013 · Bangkok ·

Brief details of corruption under the abhisit regime

The Abhisit government was charged in several cases of corruption, particularly related to spending under the Thai Khem Khaeng economic stimulus program. After much public pressure, Abhisit appointed Banlu Siripanich head of an investigative committee to investigate allegations within the Ministry of Public Health. Banlu's committee's findings included: bribery by a supplier of ambulances; irregularities in the purchase of UV fans; overspending on construction of building; inflated prices for machines and equipment. Public Health Minister and Democrat MP Witthaya Kaewparadai, Deputy Minister from Bhumjaithai Party Manit Nop-amornbodi (who was in charge of the projects) resigned due to the scandal.

Abhisit's Social Development and Human Security Minister also resigned due to a corruption scandal. In addition, Apirak Kosayodhin, the Democrat Party Governor of Bangkok, were indicted by the National Counter Corruption Commission on 11 November 2008 for corruption in the purchase of 6.6 billion baht in fire-fighting equipment. Apirak resigned from his office on 13 November.

Flood victims in Phatthalung province became nauseous after eating canned fish products which were donated through the Social Development and Human Security Ministry. Opposition party spokesman, Prompong Nopparit accused Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr of corruption in the procurement of the fish. Democrat Minister Vitoon Nambutr insisted there was no irregularities and that the ministry did not procure them for distribution. However, he later resigned to take responsibility for this situation

Abhisit's government came under accusations that the 26 billion baht Sufficiency Economy Community project was tainted with corruption. Abhisit replied to the accusations by suggesting that the "alleged malpractice might have originated during the period when the office was in charge of managing small, medium, and large (SML) enterprises…. The SML project was created by the Thaksin Shinawatra government."

Democrat MPs saw their personal net worth increase by 4.3 billion baht while Abhisit was Prime Minister. Democrat financier Kalaya Sophonphanit's personal wealth increased by 422 million baht, while the wealth of MPs Wilat Chanpitak and Chalermlak Kebsap increased by 303 and 302 million baht respectively. 10 out of 10 MPs whose wealth increased the most during Abhisit's premiership were all Democrat MPs

Nothing you say contradicts anything I have posted Abhisit as as useful to the Thai Nation as Nipples on a turtle... your inference that Wiki is less than accurate flies full in the face of reality but never mind clearly you are too lazy and self satisfied with your piety to broaden your horizons... and that is your choice... and your right.. my opinions are just that...mine.. but I rarely make them known unless I have at least done some homework. Something that I am not afraid to do because I do not know it all and am eager to know more... but certainly am not learning anything here with you

Pasuk Phongpaichit

is probably one of the most well written and respect Professors at Chula and can hardly be ignored having documented a very wide spectrum of Thai Politics and has an irrefutable level of expertise... I defer to her.. you can google her name and check her out..

Books by Pasuk Phongpaichit

http://www.amazon.com/Pasuk-Phongpaichit/e/B001IO9SWS/ref=ntt_dp_epwbk_0

KHUNKUN SAID

Just one final comment Dirtfarmer.

You posted a piece of crap from a website called Thaispring. I took one look and saw a photo of Thaksin as a champion of democracy & that was enough.

In other words posting 'proof' of what you say from a biased site is totally dishonest. You have made your links worthless & I have no intention of following any more of them. All you are doing is spreading lies and disinformation.

Yadda yadda yadda... you have your head firmly in the sand... no need to embarrass yourself any further... your inability to look beyond your nose is abundantly clear... . I would suggest you educate yourself further on the background of all that is Thai politics as the drivel you post and the posts that you p on reflect a very narrow Soi and Soi Dog,, ( thought you love that link lolol) ... learn to read some books don't take what is posted written and controlled Thai Media as verdad... it isn't... there is not free press here... it is all bought and paid for...follow the money...so to even pretend to have an authoritative position based on The Nation or BKK Post is extremely limited,,, I don't need to prove anything to you if you want to broaden your horizons the information and resources are out there I gave you half a dozen sources educate yourself or spew pablum it is your choice...

sorry for the mulit-posts had a power outage mid stream

Your effort to make spurious claims regarding Abhisit's government, post a link to Wikipedia which didn't even mention them, and then later to post a link to a site that declares Thaksin a champion of democracy demonstrated your dishonest methods to distribute disinformation, misinformation and outright lies.

If what you are spreading is supposed to be education (which it's not) then I'll stick to ignorance from sources which have some credibility and independence. Not just the local newspapers BTW.

In your latest diatribe above you make yet another spurious claim about the Bangkok Post & Nation. Bought and paid for you say. Lies I say. They have a bias which comes from Thaksin's efforts to either buy them or suppress their freedom back when he was suing journalists and buying ITV for his propaganda.

Your use of 'education' resembles the type taught at red shirt schools which in reality is brainwashing. Stay washed Dirtfarmer - at least I will know what to expect in your posts.

[DirtFarmer]

.see below duplicate post

Edited April 27, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[DirtFarmer]

Your effort to make spurious claims regarding Abhisit's government, post a link to Wikipedia which didn't even mention them, and then later to post a link to a site that declares Thaksin a champion of democracy demonstrated your dishonest methods to distribute disinformation, misinformation and outright lies.

If what you are spreading is supposed to be education (which it's not) then I'll stick to ignorance from sources which have some credibility and independence. Not just the local newspapers BTW.

In your latest diatribe above you make yet another spurious claim about the Bangkok Post & Nation. Bought and paid for you say. Lies I say. They have a bias which comes from Thaksin's efforts to either buy them or suppress their freedom back when he was suing journalists and buying ITV for his propaganda.

Your use of 'education' resembles the type taught at red shirt schools which in reality is brainwashing. Stay washed Dirtfarmer - at least I will know what to expect in your posts.

HOGWash

You said...

"Your effort to make spurious claims regarding Abhisit's government, post a link to Wikipedia which didn't even mention them, and then later to post a link to a site that declares Thaksin a champion of democracy demonstrated your dishonest methods to distribute disinformation, misinformation and outright lies."

kuhnken follow these simple instructions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

follow the bracketed numbers down the page to below [209] and read till [210]

I also invited you to read further above and below that direct reference to point out other various shady deals in his administration...all of which you choose to ignore

You said:

" In your latest diatribe above you make yet another spurious claim about the Bangkok Post & Nation. Bought and paid for you say."

Yes...bought and paid for... some Media Outlets are truly neutral and respect a higher standard of journalism some are much more like tabloids...

" If you think it is neutral un biased press I suggest you stay off the Kool-Aid it makes one delusional, all press is owned by someone and here it is no different.. However free speech is something that is not allowed to the extent it is other places in the world so a higher standard cannot be expected.

Your refusal to open your mind and read or absorb anything other than what you read here in TV limits the ability to see things clearly...

Tis a shame... I haven't lied to you though you accuse me still I have posted what you ask for... but after copious attempts to offer you reasonable avenues of further enlightenment have decided I should rather attempt having a conversation with cement.. I may have more success with that... Good luck to you.. Hope it all turns out the way you want it but I rather doubt it will

Edited April 27, 2014 by DirtFarmer

[fab4]

What majority vote was that?

Do YOU have the official results of the election in February?

If you do please publish them for all the world to see.

On the other hand if you do NOT have the official results then you must be talking crap as usual.

Proof is good. Your words alone mean nothing without the proof.

Well, one way to prove you are right would be to prove that with your own figures. However, as you disagree, but provide no proof, using your "standards" you must be "talking crap" also - just a thought...................

Just out of interest, Chris Baker had a stab at the results using unofficial figures leaked from the Election Commission.

For what it's worth, nobody won. Now ain't that the truth

My overall impression is that nobody won. If full data are every released, Pheu Thai will probably have won a majority of the seats. But the party cannot have won enough votes in absolute numbers to bolster the government’s sagging legitimacy. Last time, the party got 14.3 million votes in the constituency poll. At a guess, this time the figure would be around 10 million.

The “anti-vote” campaign of the Democrats and the PRDC did not triumph either. The protest vote was roughly double the usual level (14% against 7%), but dominant in only 7 provinces. Among former Democrat voters, more seem to have stayed away from the poll rather than registering a protest vote.

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/02/07/thai-election-by-the-numbers/

Nice of you to answer for xterminator but please pardon me if I ignore what you have said as I wasn't responding to your post.

I am sure that he is big enough to answer for himself.

I made no claims of any figures but exterminator claimed "Election. You made this mess in the first place by not participating in february and not accepting a majority vote by THE people."

What I asked him for was the proof about the majority vote by THE people. His claim and not mine.

The onus is on him to back up what he has said not me to prove me right.

Sorry I thought you were genuinely interested but it appears you were just having a bitching contest

[3NUMBAS]

the farang go between at work again

[fab4]

Just one final comment Dirtfarmer.

You posted a piece of crap from a website called Thaispring. I took one look and saw a photo of Thaksin as a champion of democracy & that was enough.

In other words posting 'proof' of what you say from a biased site is totally dishonest. You have made your links worthless & I have no intention of following any more of them. All you are doing is spreading lies and disinformation.

Veerrrry convenient. I read one link, didn't agree with it so I will completely dismiss everything else. Ain't that always the way......................................

Edited April 27, 2014 by fab4

[DirtFarmer]

Just one final comment Dirtfarmer.

You posted a piece of crap from a website called Thaispring. I took one look and saw a photo of Thaksin as a champion of democracy & that was enough.

In other words posting 'proof' of what you say from a biased site is totally dishonest. You have made your links worthless & I have no intention of following any more of them. All you are doing is spreading lies and disinformation.

Veerrrry convenient. I read one link, didn't agree with it so I will completely dismiss everything else. Ain't that always the way......................................

Yeah and that data was also in Wikpedia and I directly referenced it with links and still ... so ..ya can lead a horse to water...

[khunken]

Your effort to make spurious claims regarding Abhisit's government, post a link to Wikipedia which didn't even mention them, and then later to post a link to a site that declares Thaksin a champion of democracy demonstrated your dishonest methods to distribute disinformation, misinformation and outright lies.

If what you are spreading is supposed to be education (which it's not) then I'll stick to ignorance from sources which have some credibility and independence. Not just the local newspapers BTW.

In your latest diatribe above you make yet another spurious claim about the Bangkok Post & Nation. Bought and paid for you say. Lies I say. They have a bias which comes from Thaksin's efforts to either buy them or suppress their freedom back when he was suing journalists and buying ITV for his propaganda.

Your use of 'education' resembles the type taught at red shirt schools which in reality is brainwashing. Stay washed Dirtfarmer - at least I will know what to expect in your posts.

HOGWash

You said...

"Your effort to make spurious claims regarding Abhisit's government, post a link to Wikipedia which didn't even mention them, and then later to post a link to a site that declares Thaksin a champion of democracy demonstrated your dishonest methods to distribute disinformation, misinformation and outright lies."

kuhnken follow these simple instructions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Abhisit_Vejjajiva

follow the bracketed numbers down the page to below [209] and read till [210]

I also invited you to read further above and below that direct reference to point out other various shady deals in his administration...all of which you choose to ignore

You said:

" In your latest diatribe above you make yet another spurious claim about the Bangkok Post & Nation. Bought and paid for you say."

Yes...bought and paid for... some Media Outlets are truly neutral and respect a higher standard of journalism some are much more like tabloids...

" If you think it is neutral un biased press I suggest you stay off the Kool-Aid it makes one delusional, all press is owned by someone and here it is no different.. However free speech is something that is not allowed to the extent it is other places in the world so a higher standard cannot be expected.

Your refusal to open your mind and read or absorb anything other than what you read here in TV limits the ability to see things clearly...

Tis a shame... I haven't lied to you though you accuse me still I have posted what you ask for... but after copious attempts to offer you reasonable avenues of further enlightenment have decided I should rather attempt having a conversation with cement.. I may have more success with that... Good luck to you.. Hope it all turns out the way you want it but I rather doubt it will

I bit again because at least Wikipedia has some credibility. However following your suggested starting point at 209, 'the web page ..... is not currently available' ('probably moved or no longer exists'). Another &lt;deleted&gt; wild goose chase.

You obviously didn't bother to read my post. I didn't say the Bangkok Post or Nation are unbiased: 'They have a bias.....'. Repeated to help with myopia. Of course they are owned by someone - the shareholders as they are listed public companies. Here you are spreading misinformation - again. It is tiresome to have to also repeat that I do not solely rely on them for information.

You may not have lied directly but you have dissemenated lies by using the likes of Thaispring website as a reference. I do know full well that absolutely free speech is not allowed here but it does not affect the standard of reporting of non-LM news. It always pays to be sceptical of any news (national and international) and even more so of web sites with an agenda like Thaispring, which doesn't say much for your supposed independence.

For someone who likens this debate to a conversation with cement you have posted an awful lot of verbose crap which wouldn't convince a sponge let alone cement.. Keep taking the medicine - it might work one day.