Kids citizenship..

[Showbags]

I was told something that seemed quite strange today, did not believe it because of everything else I have been through here over the years...but TIT so ya never know.

Basically I was told that my son, 12yo, was put onto a new house address book recently and this means he is now Thai.

He is half Thai, but not born here, nor has Thai passport, nor has thai birth certificate issued by the embassy back home....we have tried in the past to get thai PP, but have not got it because of the birth cert and because my name is spelt different in a couple of documents, cannot remember which ones now.....he is on overstay each and every time we come back from somewhere o/s.

So, just wondering if any substance in this.....so both my kids are now on this new house book.....but my other child was born here and has thai PP etc.

I cannot fathom it being correct.....but this person also stated we can now get him his Thai ID card because he is on the house book.

[ubonjoe]

It does not seem correct he would of been put on the house book without a Thai birth certificate.

If you want to get his birth certificate sorted out the embassy where he was born is the best place to start. Even starting the process here ends with the embassy doing the birth certificate.

Just being on the house book will not allow you to get him a passport. The birth certificate is on the list of required documents.to get one. See: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21479-Requirements-for-the-Ordinary-e-Passports-Applicat.html

[Mario2008]

Is he on a blue or yellow household book, if he is on a household book indeed. Only the mother could have put him there, since it was not you, with permission of the house owner.

If on a blue household book it would mean he is considered Thai, but without a birth certificate that seems strange.

The Thai birth certificate must be applied for at the Thai embassy for the country the child was born in, but you can apply for it through the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs, consular department. Basically they will check all required documents and send the application on to the Thai embassy in question, which will than issue the BC.

The consular department is very helpful and I suggest to sort the BC out with them, including the papers where your name is spelled differently.

www.consular.go.th

[Showbags]

Well he is on the book.

He has an Australian BC that was translated and certified as correct here...but not an original thai one issued by the embassy in Oz.

Yes I know about the BC having to be issued from place of birth, but we have not been back there yet and I refuse to send my passports away by post....so waiting for the day.

My main concern was that if any of that info was correct...then obviously that would mean he would be eligible for the military and we are not going to let that happen.

[ubonjoe]

If you do the process through the consular affairs department in Bangkok they do not need your passport. They will just need copies.

You would not be able to get the birth certificate by trying to do it by mail to the embassy yourself you must go through the consular affairs department.

Info about getting the birth certificate can be found here in Thai. http://www.consular.go.th

[Showbags]

I was told by email direct from the embassy, a long time ago now though, to send it all to them directly and job done.

May have changed, but was possible.

any way, we not in a hurry to get him a thai pp.....just wondering about this other stuff and any consequences about him now being on the house book and any truth in the ramblings by this other person.

[Mario2008]

As said, with the Thai consular department they check your documents and certify the copies that will be send to the embassy. So no need for original passport.

if he is on a household registration, go to the amphur and try to get him a Thai ID-card. The household book should have him listed, together with a Thai identy number. If it starts with a 3 he is in the system as a Thai national.

As a national older than 7 years old he needs to have a Thai ID-card. If he gets that than he is in the system, with his Thai ID-number, and you can also get him a Thai passport.

[Showbags]

As said, with the Thai consular department they check your documents and certify the copies that will be send to the embassy. So no need for original passport.

if he is on a household registration, go to the amphur and try to get him a Thai ID-card. The household book should have him listed, together with a Thai identy number. If it starts with a 3 he is in the system as a Thai national.

As a national older than 7 years old he needs to have a Thai ID-card. If he gets that than he is in the system, with his Thai ID-number, and you can also get him a Thai passport.

But thats a gamble.....if we do not want him in the system for Dads Army.

[Mario2008]

If he is listed in a Thai household book with a number starting with a 3 he is already in the records as a Thai national.

[ubonjoe]

You don't have to worry about the draft for over 8 years. There are ways to work around him being conscripted.

You should not delay getting legal here that long. There could be many problems that could arise for not doing it. (school and university perhaps).

[Showbags]

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If he is listed in a Thai household book with a number starting with a 3 he is already in the records as a Thai national.

How can he have a number if he does not have an ID yet ?....or is allocated at some stage ?

I'll go looksie.

You don't have to worry about the draft for over 8 years. There are ways to work around him being conscripted.

You should not delay getting legal here that long. There could be many problems that could arise for not doing it. (school and university perhaps).

School thus far..he is in year 7....has not been a problem and Uni....face that when and if he goes here,most likely not at this stage...but never say never.

Will be interesting to see if he is now recognised as up to now, he has not and gets a frown at immigration for his lengthy overstays....longest was 4 years from memory.

But, we are leaving this lovely land soon, so will deal with future issues re PP and ID etc when and if we return.....but right now, I would just like to know if he is on the conscription books or not.

[Mario2008]

He gets an ID-number with being on the household registration book. Even foreigners on a household registration book get a Thai ID-number.

The first digit indicates the "nationality/status" and the next two digit the province and then the next two digit the amphur in question.

Until he becomes 15 he will not be on overstay, but from his 15th birthday he will be. Also as a foreigner he will need a work permit, etc in order to get a job.

But when he starts class M4 he can join the cadets training instead of going through the draft. That means he serves his draft during school time. Of course alone if he is a Thai national.

[TerryLH]

The conscription pool comes from young men of the right age that are listed on house registrations.

So yes, he's at risk.

[Showbags]

The conscription pool comes from young men of the right age that are listed on house registrations.

So yes, he's at risk.

But they have to be of Thai nationality....if he is not, then even if on house book, he is not eligible obviously.....this is why I am wondering re the info given that he can now simply go get his thai ID card and simply bypass any other step....which I find bizarre.

Have not had a chance to look at the book yet though.

As for not on overstay until 15....they are on overstay, it is just not bothered with...why else would he have to go into the Immi office at the airport and get it sorted and only once, get yelled at by an obnoxious cow....she yelled at me, not him.....I gave her my best death stare.

[TerryLH]

"But they have to be of Thai nationality....if he is not, then even if on house book, he is not eligible obviously.....this is why I am wondering re the info given that he can now simply go get his thai ID card and simply bypass any other step....which I find bizarre."

If one of his parents is Thai, he is Thai. I assume you aren't Thai, but his mother is. That information should be on his birth certificate.

If he is on the house registration, all the documentation has already been provided - to someone. Only Thai's are supposed to be on the blue house registration books. If it was determined he was not Thai, he'd have been put on a yellow book.

"As for not on overstay until 15....they are on overstay, it is just not bothered with...why else would he have to go into the Immi office at the airport and get it sorted and only once, get yelled at by an obnoxious cow....she yelled at me, not him.....I gave her my best death stare."

For immigration purposes, he'll be treated as a foreigner if he entered the country on a foreign passport. That has been well documented on this forum. Not saying there shouldn't be a better way, just saying that's how it is.

That does not mean he's not Thai.

Edited April 29, 2014 by TerryLH

[wandasloan]

If one of his parents is Thai, he is Thai. I assume you aren't Thai, but his mother is. That information should be on his birth certificate.

Not quite. If one of the parents is Thai, the child MAY BE Thai. As you say, this should be on the birth certificate. If it is not, go to the amphur office and set it straight, and then he can be Thai (rather easily once the documents are straight).

A Thai citizen/child by age 12 has to have an ID card. If your child does not have one, that is the SECOND reason to head for your amphur office and straight it all out.

A child born in Thailand can stay in Thailand forever, really, no matter the technical nationality or stateless. But once he exits, he has to come back as a foreigner or a Thai. So far as getting on the tapian ban, few if any district officials are going to say anything if a kid, any kid, is put there.

Yes, the blue tapian ban is supposed to be Thais only. No, it does NOT have official meaning for nationality. If a mistake was made and the child is on the tapian ban and is not a Thai, he still is not a Thai.

PLEASE go to the amphur and get this straightened out because every poster in this thread including this poster cannot give you a definite answer about your specific case.

.

[TerryLH]

"Not quite. If one of the parents is Thai, the child MAY BE Thai."

Not sure I follow this. Can you give an example of when one parent is Thai and the child isn't Thai?

Thanks

[Estrada]

It is correct. Our eldest daughter was born in the UK and my wife is Thai. She was entitled to a Thai passport as her mother is Thai. However you have to follow this procedure step by step:

1. Get her on your wife's house paper.

2. Then using that you can get a Thai I.D. from the local Ampur office

3. Then with the house paper, Thai I.D. and UK birth certificate (with translation) you can get a Thai passport.

After that you need to take him out of the Country on the British passport and re-enter using the Thai passport. After that no 90 day reporting for him.

[Estrada]

If one of his parents is Thai, he is Thai. I assume you aren't Thai, but his mother is. That information should be on his birth certificate.

Not quite. If one of the parents is Thai, the child MAY BE Thai. As you say, this should be on the birth certificate. If it is not, go to the amphur office and set it straight, and then he can be Thai (rather easily once the documents are straight).

A Thai citizen/child by age 12 has to have an ID card. If your child does not have one, that is the SECOND reason to head for your amphur office and straight it all out.

A child born in Thailand can stay in Thailand forever, really, no matter the technical nationality or stateless. But once he exits, he has to come back as a foreigner or a Thai. So far as getting on the tapian ban, few if any district officials are going to say anything if a kid, any kid, is put there.

Yes, the blue tapian ban is supposed to be Thais only. No, it does NOT have official meaning for nationality. If a mistake was made and the child is on the tapian ban and is not a Thai, he still is not a Thai.

PLEASE go to the amphur and get this straightened out because every poster in this thread including this poster cannot give you a definite answer about your specific case.

.

I don't know where you got the figure of 12 years old to have a Thai I.D. card. It used to be compulsory at 15 years up until 2011 when it was reduced to 7 years old. The reason they introduced I.D.s for children aged 7 to 14 years was to identify children born in Thailand who are orphans or otherwise stateless.

[ubonjoe]

I don't think it is now compulsory to get the Thai ID at the age of 7. They started allowing them to be done at the age of 7 for identification purposes so their photo and finger print is on record for child abduction purposes. It is still compulsory within 2 weeks of turning 15 or there is a 500 fine.

[ATF]

It is correct. Our eldest daughter was born in the UK and my wife is Thai. She was entitled to a Thai passport as her mother is Thai. However you have to follow this procedure step by step:

1. Get her on your wife's house paper.

2. Then using that you can get a Thai I.D. from the local Ampur office

3. Then with the house paper, Thai I.D. and UK birth certificate (with translation) you can get a Thai passport.

After that you need to take him out of the Country on the British passport and re-enter using the Thai passport. After that no 90 day reporting for him.

This is correct he is entitled to Thai citizenship if his mother or father is Thai. You should follow it through, two passports are better than one. If he is not in Thailand or goes to university he can't be conscripted for military service. However the most important thing here is your son's feelings. Does he prefer Thailand to your home country. Does he consider himself Thai? Where does he want to live? Are his friends mostly Thai or falungs?

[TerryLH]

OP

If you haven't already seen it, there is another current thread re this topic that might be of interest to you.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/722279-thai-citizen-or-not/

[Mario2008]

"Not quite. If one of the parents is Thai, the child MAY BE Thai."

Not sure I follow this. Can you give an example of when one parent is Thai and the child isn't Thai?

Thanks

If at least one of the parents is Thai at the time of birth, than the child hold automaticaly Thai nationality. If the parent(s) aqcuire Thai nationality after the birth of the child through naturalisation the child will not be automatically Thai.

[Showbags]

As mentioned above......'if he is on the house registration, all the documents must have been supplied to someone'.....well, he is on the blue book and not all the documents have been supplied because we do NOT have a thai birth certificate for him from the thai embassy back home in Oz......we tried to get this a couple times before, but too much problem back then....however that may have changed as mentioned above in a couple posts re documents not being required to be mailed as originals back to Oz anymore.

I have been up to this point, led to believe he needs his Thai issued BC to get a passport....as stated, he does not have this....he does have a translated version on his Australian one, but not issued from thai embassy back home.

I do not want, and if it is important to others, he does not want to get his ID card if this means he is then 'on the books' and eligible for conscription, regardless of if we will be here in this country or not during that period.....we most likely will not be here for him to do military cadets during high school.

He is more farnag than Thai, he mixes with all at school, but his feelings will definitley not be hurt if he is not considered Thai until he is past the 30 year mark.....if he wants to become eligible during that period himself of his choice when he is an adult, up to him, but currently he is a 12yo that still needs and wants guidance.

[Showbags]

As asked earlier about the numbers on the house book by UJ and Mario...here they are....

My son, no thai birth certificate, no thai passport, born o/s....his number starts with 5 and then 31

My daughter, thai birth certificate, thai passport, born in Thailand....her number starts with 1 and then 10

So what do these mean ?

[Mario2008]

A number beginiing with a 5 means someone who is listed as a foreign national. Normally such person would be in a yellow house hold book. So he is coonsidered a foreigner and not listed as a Thai.

A number beginning with a 1 is I believe also for a Thai national, but not 100% sure.

[Showbags]

So that should be comforting....listed as a foreigner and therefore not eligible for Dads army.

I would presume then, re the original query in the OP, that he would NOT be able to get a ID card just simply because he is now in this house book....as what was told as possible to us recently....

[Mario2008]

Not until he has a Thai birth certificate will the Thai government be aware of him being a Thai national and only than can het get a Thai ID-card.

[samran]

A number beginiing with a 5 means someone who is listed as a foreign national. Normally such person would be in a yellow house hold book. So he is coonsidered a foreigner and not listed as a Thai.

A number beginning with a 1 is I believe also for a Thai national, but not 100% sure.

Mine starts with a 5 and I am a Thai national.

[Mario2008]

There goes my number theory.

I start with a 5 too, but I'm not a Thai national.