Why do so many TV users dislike Thailand so much and yet stay?

[rayongchelsea]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Half true, but the other side you avoid is the Thai side, unless you mean to imply that they are perfect.

Our views are shaped by our experiences. A man who, say, interacts with mostly poorer Thais from upcountry may come to one conclusion about Thais and Thai culture while I might, through my heavy interaction (via work) with mostly fairly well off and well connected Thai Chinese come to totally different conclusion.

I can tell you that within the part of the society I mostly am forced to interact with, there is a rather real racism against all foreigners and particularly us "Farangs". It's very real, and if you know intimately farangs to work at this level in Thailand, you might find that many of them will agree. Again, mostly it's Thai Chinese who are more Chinese than Thai and will make great effort to let you know that. Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

It's "Thailand for the Thai Chinese, we mean All Thai People" That's the deal. They would see us a threat to their little kingdom paradise they've built. And, they create all types of obstacles for us (and other foreigners) here. And, unless you're one of those farangs who is totally clueless and takes all the fake smiles to be genuine (I've know plenty of expats like this), then surely you've observed a palpable, just beneath the surface displeasure from Thais toward us? Surely you will have noticed how the legal system is clearly in the favor of Thais and not here to protect foreigners and natives equally? Surely if you have done any significant business function or made significant investment here, you will have come across the endless minefields of locals who openly conspire to take advantage of foreigners here? Surely you will have noticed the immigration policies?

I mean I can understand a teacher or something who works up country with a bunch of poor, dark, always smiling Thais coming away from the experience thinking that he is admired. But, befriend some really successful guys here (say, guys who work or invest here on at least 200-300K Baht/month and up), and you might here about a VERY different Thailand.

Your comments resemble that of a farang work colleague I used to know. The problem is many farangs in Thailand don't want to be treated as equals--they want to be special. They want to be treated as a VIP, a diva almost. From that perspective, they think that the indigenous folks should be so appreciative of their mere presence and listen to all of their words as if coming from the messiah.

So this farang work colleague of mine was very much like that. He became a disgruntled farang because he felt that no one listened to him. And of course, he blamed it on the Thai and Thai culture. But I knew this guy. He was incompetent and really didn't know what he was talking about. So the Thais weren't the problem, it was him. And he will never admit it.

Not saying you're like that. But you sound very much like him.

No. You are wrong.most farangs I have met in my profession who earn more than that are highly competent and surprise surprise very culturally aware..more so than the average joe who comes here with limited experience, limited education and limited funds..

Incompetence is another issue..

Most of my colleagues I have worked have worked in the west, USA, Singapore, malaysia, philipinnes etc..

Guys who work here, educate their kids here, deal with business issues here etc..have much more idea of what goes on than a guy living in a moo baan, retired,allows his wife to do all his transactions etc..

The experiences are different..neither is invalid..

Absolutely nothing to do about being admired..nonsense..these guys are competent..they get the big bucks because of it..my general experience is how they help the Thai employees more than the Thai managers themselves...they Simply have work experience that some Thais no not have..one aspect I didn't like is the way some senior Thais like to lord it over a farang

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bangkoklasse]

A lot of people have been cheated by their thai girlfriends and wives. Both on money land and houses. So it is no wonder if they are sour and bitter. And if you have been living here many years, it's not that easy to go back to your old home country

Edited May 1, 2014 by bangkoklasse

[beb]

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.

Wait, are you trying to say that this is restricted to a particular political ideology?

[HardenedSoul]

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.

Wait, are you trying to say that this is restricted to a particular political ideology?

'course not.

[thailiketoo]

Check expat forums in even other countries in Asia and you won't find as much of the same type of complaining.

Well, there's a fairly good reason for that.

The typical expat demographic in other Asian countries - with, perhaps, the exception of Cambodia - isn't comprised of emotionally dysfunctional males who've moved there to be closer to an inexhaustible supply of young prostitutes.

Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul and others for sure have their own indigenous sex industries but none of them are as purpose-built, visible and competitively-priced as that which exists here.

You won't hear people on expat forums in those countries bitching about the rising cost of a greasy breakfast, the fact they're not wiped down with a cold towel the second they order a Singha and the fact they can't get a short time for the equivalent of £20 or $35 because they're not in those countries for VIP treatment and cheap pussy.

A large percentage of "expats" in Thailand can best be described as depraved, dysfunctional dinosaurs who came here specifically to see out the remainder of their lives either chasing low-rent sex with local, splay-toed tail and/or drinking their livers into oblivion.

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.

Bro, don't know much do you Sammy Boy?

[HardenedSoul]

Check expat forums in even other countries in Asia and you won't find as much of the same type of complaining.

Well, there's a fairly good reason for that.

The typical expat demographic in other Asian countries - with, perhaps, the exception of Cambodia - isn't comprised of emotionally dysfunctional males who've moved there to be closer to an inexhaustible supply of young prostitutes.

Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul and others for sure have their own indigenous sex industries but none of them are as purpose-built, visible and competitively-priced as that which exists here.

You won't hear people on expat forums in those countries bitching about the rising cost of a greasy breakfast, the fact they're not wiped down with a cold towel the second they order a Singha and the fact they can't get a short time for the equivalent of £20 or $35 because they're not in those countries for VIP treatment and cheap pussy.

A large percentage of "expats" in Thailand can best be described as depraved, dysfunctional dinosaurs who came here specifically to see out the remainder of their lives either chasing low-rent sex with local, splay-toed tail and/or drinking their livers into oblivion.

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.

Bro, don't know much do you Sammy Boy?

If there was one guy who I could count on to refute that post, it would be brainwashed, out-with-the-fairies thailiketoo

Edited May 1, 2014 by HardenedSoul

[balo]

If we go visiting another country in the west we'll miss Thailand after 2 days there. So most of us like Thailand even if there's a lot of moaning on TV.

Edited May 1, 2014 by balo

[thailiketoo]

Bro, don't know much do you Sammy Boy?

If there was one guy who I could count on to refute that post, it would be brainwashed, out-with-the-fairies thailiketoo

Better ask one of the adults in Singapore to explain it to you. People suggest that there are mongers posting here. I doubt it. If there are they certainly are not very knowledgeable of the genre or area.

[benalibina]

Check expat forums in even other countries in Asia and you won't find as much of the same type of complaining.

Well, there's a fairly good reason for that.

The typical expat demographic in other Asian countries - with, perhaps, the exception of Cambodia - isn't comprised of emotionally dysfunctional males who've moved there to be closer to an inexhaustible supply of young prostitutes.

Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul and others for sure have their own indigenous sex industries but none of them are as purpose-built, visible and competitively-priced as that which exists here.

You won't hear people on expat forums in those countries bitching about the rising cost of a greasy breakfast, the fact they're not wiped down with a cold towel the second they order a Singha and the fact they can't get a short time for the equivalent of £20 or $35 because they're not in those countries for VIP treatment and cheap pussy.

A large percentage of "expats" in Thailand can best be described as depraved, dysfunctional dinosaurs who came here specifically to see out the remainder of their lives either chasing low-rent sex with local, splay-toed tail and/or drinking their livers into oblivion.

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.

Bro, don't know much do you Sammy Boy?

If there was one guy who I could count on to refute that post, it would be brainwashed, out-with-the-fairies thailiketoo

Slowly he is seeing the light though...slowly but surely.

[thailiketoo]

Well, there's a fairly good reason for that.

The typical expat demographic in other Asian countries - with, perhaps, the exception of Cambodia - isn't comprised of emotionally dysfunctional males who've moved there to be closer to an inexhaustible supply of young prostitutes.

Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul and others for sure have their own indigenous sex industries but none of them are as purpose-built, visible and competitively-priced as that which exists here.

You won't hear people on expat forums in those countries bitching about the rising cost of a greasy breakfast, the fact they're not wiped down with a cold towel the second they order a Singha and the fact they can't get a short time for the equivalent of £20 or $35 because they're not in those countries for VIP treatment and cheap pussy.

A large percentage of "expats" in Thailand can best be described as depraved, dysfunctional dinosaurs who came here specifically to see out the remainder of their lives either chasing low-rent sex with local, splay-toed tail and/or drinking their livers into oblivion.

These high-class guys blame Western women for being too independent and ambitious, Western governments for being too easy on immigration, liberals for being too PC . . . . well you get the point.

Everyone else is to blame; never them, never their choices.

Bro, don't know much do you Sammy Boy?

If there was one guy who I could count on to refute that post, it would be brainwashed, out-with-the-fairies thailiketoo

Slowly he is seeing the light though...slowly but surely.

Thai Visa is a gentle and sweet forum and mongers don't post here. A few novices from time to time butt in on the quiet tranquility of these peaceful shores; however for the most part it is searching for fish and chips and Swastikas that occupy the minds of these posters.

[Loles]

There are 2 types of crying TV people here:

- can't go any-where cause is under arrest warrant in west, or can't go any-where with-out any money (<<<<< Pattaya style)

- can go every-where but doesn't like anything cause is too old already, so better to stay here and enjoy cheap life, young pussies (and his illusions) and whines all day. (<<<<< Phuket & Chiangmai style).

Edited May 1, 2014 by Loles

[maxme]

Found this on Stickman's site...

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand.

If you are rich and are sensible with money, then go ahead. If an international company or similar offers you a high salary job in Thailand then fine. If your are retired or have steady funds from aboard and want to live modestly on those funds, go ahead, but watch yourself. And if you're a young dude travelling around the world, and you want to spend some time in Thailand teaching or whatever for experience, then that's OK too.

If you don't fall into these categories then "don't" consider it for a moment. Many middle aged westerners in particular (including professionals) like the idea of living there, having a business or making some money and "enjoying life" in Thailand. But very few make it. (Forget about western restaurant or bar owners and alike you might meet in Thailand boasting about their good life there. It is common for faltering foreigners to keep up appearances). Mostly they end up broke or crazed, sometimes both, then they leave. Thai business, visa and residency laws get you in the end. The "Thai way" will get you in the end. Have a minor run-in with a wealthy or important Thai and your status and possibly your life will be at risk. Their whole culture is geared around making sure that foreigners pursuing individual efforts are not successful. It's ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonized master race of Asia (yes they really think that) and their mythology runs so deep you'll never budge it. Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership rights. But Thais can go to your country (very possibly) and buy and own anything they can get their hands on (because of the more tolerant business laws). To Thais, this is just further evidence of how clever they are, and how foolish are the foreigners to go to Thailand.

Remember too, that Thailand is dominated by a comparatively small military-industrial elite. They have all the power and most of the wealth in the country. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

Think of Thailand, for westerners, as being a bit like a casino. A casino is a place with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune / the good life, and a place for fun, even with a bit of a risk. Go to a casino every now and then for fun and that's OK. Go there everyday all-day and you will ultimately lose, because the House Advantage will always get you. So it is in Thailand. The Thai "House Advantage" will get you. They make sure of it.

Of course, if going to Thailand with all your money and slowly losing it and ending up teaching English for a pittance (because that's about all you can do), either illegally or working legally but being treated like a serf by Thai institutions, appeals to you then go ahead. And running around the country several times a year getting visas, or always being at the mercy of authorities on visa matters might be your bag. If so, then go ahead, at least you'll be able to spend your nights at cheap restaurants sharing your impoverishment and frustration with other exploited western teachers. If not, think seriously.

In case you are thinking, let me say that I am not a former go-go bar owner gone bust, I have not lost my all doing business with Thais, no I haven't been cheated of everything by a bar-girl, no I haven't been reduced to the indignity of teaching English for a pittance. I have my own money, have spent a lot of time in Thailand, and have done some business there, have observed the experiences of a lot of foreigners, can see what goes on, and have enough concern to want to tell others about it.

If my words can prevent even one westerner of modest means from selling up and going to "enjoy life" in Thailand (and getting shafted in the end) then that will be something. Don't make the mistake of thinking that as a foreigner (even with professional skills) you can "make a contribution" to Thailand, no matter how good your intentions or needed your skills may be. Your contribution will *never* be welcomed, only your money. There is a saying in Thai that captures it well: "farang roo mark my dee" - foreigners who know too much [about Thailand] are no good. Gullible tourists, however, are great.

So, go to Thailand as a tourist if you like, enjoy what you enjoy there, but don't be taken in by the culture or people, as many westerners have, and don't under any circumstances give up anything back home to go and stay there unless you are financially secure for life, or know exactly what you are doing.

There is a tradition of resident foreigners in Thailand not telling you the truth about the country because they don't like to admit to themselves and to others about the mistake they have made in moving there. But especially now, with the financial mess Thailand has got itself into through a mixture of greed, incompetence, arrogance and corruption, and the prospect of difficult times ahead (to say the least) it is time for plain speaking.

A final comment to anyone who strongly disagrees with these comments. Unless you have lived, worked and conducted business in Thailand for many years, I'm not interested. The views of "oh how can you say that, Thailand is really great" 2 week tourists carry no weight with those of us who know Thailand and Thais well.

[copa8]

Its invariably true that a man can be depicted accurately from his projection of the world. [You] ARE in essence what you see. The regrettable conclusion is the world is now too small, and the (a number) losers I sought to depart in the west are fully encamped here as well. This, then, is the "Farang" that Thai people rail against, embodied so eloquently by [some] losers here in TV defending the notion that disdain as healthy critique is nourishing. I am pleased I rarely have these bad experiences. I am pleased there are very few of you where I live. I get it! I really do. I understand why you are despised.

TV gives me less a keen perspective on the machinations of Thailand than on the actual reasons many Thai people resent you.

Most people who are well read and well traveled know the Chinese are fairly racist and lack what most of us would call ethics. So, no wonder that after coming here and establishing themselves over several generations that they are naturally opposed to these farangs coming in and having any influence.

If you substitute "Chinese" with "Jews" and change the setting from the East to the West, this would be considered a racist remark. But, since it's only about Chinese/Asians, it's no biggie.

[HardenedSoul]

Better ask one of the adults in Singapore to explain it to you. People suggest that there are mongers posting here. I doubt it. If there are they certainly are not very knowledgeable of the genre or area.

Translation :

"You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

You just disagree because that's what you do.

Forgive you because you can't help talking out of your anus"

[SoiBiker]

Found this on Stickman's site...

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand.

If you are rich and are sensible with money, then go ahead. If an international company or similar offers you a high salary job in Thailand then fine. If your are retired or have steady funds from aboard and want to live modestly on those funds, go ahead, but watch yourself. And if you're a young dude travelling around the world, and you want to spend some time in Thailand teaching or whatever for experience, then that's OK too.

If you don't fall into these categories then "don't" consider it for a moment. Many middle aged westerners in particular (including professionals) like the idea of living there, having a business or making some money and "enjoying life" in Thailand. But very few make it. (Forget about western restaurant or bar owners and alike you might meet in Thailand boasting about their good life there. It is common for faltering foreigners to keep up appearances). Mostly they end up broke or crazed, sometimes both, then they leave. Thai business, visa and residency laws get you in the end. The "Thai way" will get you in the end. Have a minor run-in with a wealthy or important Thai and your status and possibly your life will be at risk. Their whole culture is geared around making sure that foreigners pursuing individual efforts are not successful. It's ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonized master race of Asia (yes they really think that) and their mythology runs so deep you'll never budge it. Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership rights. But Thais can go to your country (very possibly) and buy and own anything they can get their hands on (because of the more tolerant business laws). To Thais, this is just further evidence of how clever they are, and how foolish are the foreigners to go to Thailand.

Remember too, that Thailand is dominated by a comparatively small military-industrial elite. They have all the power and most of the wealth in the country. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

Think of Thailand, for westerners, as being a bit like a casino. A casino is a place with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune / the good life, and a place for fun, even with a bit of a risk. Go to a casino every now and then for fun and that's OK. Go there everyday all-day and you will ultimately lose, because the House Advantage will always get you. So it is in Thailand. The Thai "House Advantage" will get you. They make sure of it.

Of course, if going to Thailand with all your money and slowly losing it and ending up teaching English for a pittance (because that's about all you can do), either illegally or working legally but being treated like a serf by Thai institutions, appeals to you then go ahead. And running around the country several times a year getting visas, or always being at the mercy of authorities on visa matters might be your bag. If so, then go ahead, at least you'll be able to spend your nights at cheap restaurants sharing your impoverishment and frustration with other exploited western teachers. If not, think seriously.

In case you are thinking, let me say that I am not a former go-go bar owner gone bust, I have not lost my all doing business with Thais, no I haven't been cheated of everything by a bar-girl, no I haven't been reduced to the indignity of teaching English for a pittance. I have my own money, have spent a lot of time in Thailand, and have done some business there, have observed the experiences of a lot of foreigners, can see what goes on, and have enough concern to want to tell others about it.

If my words can prevent even one westerner of modest means from selling up and going to "enjoy life" in Thailand (and getting shafted in the end) then that will be something. Don't make the mistake of thinking that as a foreigner (even with professional skills) you can "make a contribution" to Thailand, no matter how good your intentions or needed your skills may be. Your contribution will *never* be welcomed, only your money. There is a saying in Thai that captures it well: "farang roo mark my dee" - foreigners who know too much [about Thailand] are no good. Gullible tourists, however, are great.

So, go to Thailand as a tourist if you like, enjoy what you enjoy there, but don't be taken in by the culture or people, as many westerners have, and don't under any circumstances give up anything back home to go and stay there unless you are financially secure for life, or know exactly what you are doing.

There is a tradition of resident foreigners in Thailand not telling you the truth about the country because they don't like to admit to themselves and to others about the mistake they have made in moving there. But especially now, with the financial mess Thailand has got itself into through a mixture of greed, incompetence, arrogance and corruption, and the prospect of difficult times ahead (to say the least) it is time for plain speaking.

A final comment to anyone who strongly disagrees with these comments. Unless you have lived, worked and conducted business in Thailand for many years, I'm not interested. The views of "oh how can you say that, Thailand is really great" 2 week tourists carry no weight with those of us who know Thailand and Thais well.

So don't move here unless you have some way of supporting yourself?

I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

[maxme]

Found this on Stickman's site...

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand.

If you are rich and are sensible with money, then go ahead. If an international company or similar offers you a high salary job in Thailand then fine. If your are retired or have steady funds from aboard and want to live modestly on those funds, go ahead, but watch yourself. And if you're a young dude travelling around the world, and you want to spend some time in Thailand teaching or whatever for experience, then that's OK too.

If you don't fall into these categories then "don't" consider it for a moment. Many middle aged westerners in particular (including professionals) like the idea of living there, having a business or making some money and "enjoying life" in Thailand. But very few make it. (Forget about western restaurant or bar owners and alike you might meet in Thailand boasting about their good life there. It is common for faltering foreigners to keep up appearances). Mostly they end up broke or crazed, sometimes both, then they leave. Thai business, visa and residency laws get you in the end. The "Thai way" will get you in the end. Have a minor run-in with a wealthy or important Thai and your status and possibly your life will be at risk. Their whole culture is geared around making sure that foreigners pursuing individual efforts are not successful. It's ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonized master race of Asia (yes they really think that) and their mythology runs so deep you'll never budge it. Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership rights. But Thais can go to your country (very possibly) and buy and own anything they can get their hands on (because of the more tolerant business laws). To Thais, this is just further evidence of how clever they are, and how foolish are the foreigners to go to Thailand.

Remember too, that Thailand is dominated by a comparatively small military-industrial elite. They have all the power and most of the wealth in the country. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

Think of Thailand, for westerners, as being a bit like a casino. A casino is a place with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune / the good life, and a place for fun, even with a bit of a risk. Go to a casino every now and then for fun and that's OK. Go there everyday all-day and you will ultimately lose, because the House Advantage will always get you. So it is in Thailand. The Thai "House Advantage" will get you. They make sure of it.

Of course, if going to Thailand with all your money and slowly losing it and ending up teaching English for a pittance (because that's about all you can do), either illegally or working legally but being treated like a serf by Thai institutions, appeals to you then go ahead. And running around the country several times a year getting visas, or always being at the mercy of authorities on visa matters might be your bag. If so, then go ahead, at least you'll be able to spend your nights at cheap restaurants sharing your impoverishment and frustration with other exploited western teachers. If not, think seriously.

In case you are thinking, let me say that I am not a former go-go bar owner gone bust, I have not lost my all doing business with Thais, no I haven't been cheated of everything by a bar-girl, no I haven't been reduced to the indignity of teaching English for a pittance. I have my own money, have spent a lot of time in Thailand, and have done some business there, have observed the experiences of a lot of foreigners, can see what goes on, and have enough concern to want to tell others about it.

If my words can prevent even one westerner of modest means from selling up and going to "enjoy life" in Thailand (and getting shafted in the end) then that will be something. Don't make the mistake of thinking that as a foreigner (even with professional skills) you can "make a contribution" to Thailand, no matter how good your intentions or needed your skills may be. Your contribution will *never* be welcomed, only your money. There is a saying in Thai that captures it well: "farang roo mark my dee" - foreigners who know too much [about Thailand] are no good. Gullible tourists, however, are great.

So, go to Thailand as a tourist if you like, enjoy what you enjoy there, but don't be taken in by the culture or people, as many westerners have, and don't under any circumstances give up anything back home to go and stay there unless you are financially secure for life, or know exactly what you are doing.

There is a tradition of resident foreigners in Thailand not telling you the truth about the country because they don't like to admit to themselves and to others about the mistake they have made in moving there. But especially now, with the financial mess Thailand has got itself into through a mixture of greed, incompetence, arrogance and corruption, and the prospect of difficult times ahead (to say the least) it is time for plain speaking.

A final comment to anyone who strongly disagrees with these comments. Unless you have lived, worked and conducted business in Thailand for many years, I'm not interested. The views of "oh how can you say that, Thailand is really great" 2 week tourists carry no weight with those of us who know Thailand and Thais well.

So don't move here unless you have some way of supporting yourself?

I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

Not entirely correct... In most countries, well more civilized at least, people are given the chance of actually getting a job. The Thai system does everything to prevent that from happening.

There are other countries that have more than their fair share of strange rules but the xenophobia in Thailand is deeply rooted within the system and though it's not impossible to get a job, it's hard unless you have the cash to start your own company and even that comes with a lot of illogical restrictions and rules.

[benalibina]

Disliking Thailand and its populace can only happen when one has started to make an emotional and/or economical commitment in Thailand. Job, gf, children, business etc, whether fully prepared or not, and 1 gets shafted during that process of commitment.

Most, if not all, people come to thailand to become happier than they were back home. Some succeed in that, some not. Thats life.

Thailand is for the thais. Foreigners are only allowed and accepted because of.....

Edited May 1, 2014 by benalibina

[takkatan in the land]

if no one would have ever before complained about eating food without cooking, we all might be eating raw food nowadays

also you can do your math, if many people complain that there must be some reasons

[thailiketoo]

Better ask one of the adults in Singapore to explain it to you. People suggest that there are mongers posting here. I doubt it. If there are they certainly are not very knowledgeable of the genre or area.

Translation :

"You haven't got a clue what you're talking about.

You just disagree because that's what you do.

Forgive you because you can't help talking out of your anus"

We are not supposed to discuss the specifics of mongering here. I gave you a couple of hints that anyone who has been here for a while with a modicum of sophistication would have picked up on. You didn't OK no problem.

[thailiketoo]

if no one would have ever before complained about eating food without cooking, we all might be eating raw food nowadays

also you can do your math, if many people complain that there must be some reasons

Shills my dear fellow. That is the reason.

[thailiketoo]

So don't move here unless you have some way of supporting yourself?

I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

Not entirely correct... In most countries, well more civilized at least, people are given the chance of actually getting a job. The Thai system does everything to prevent that from happening.

There are other countries that have more than their fair share of strange rules but the xenophobia in Thailand is deeply rooted within the system and though it's not impossible to get a job, it's hard unless you have the cash to start your own company and even that comes with a lot of illogical restrictions and rules.

Nonsense. If you have qualifications you can get a job. Thailand needs educated/experienced engineers and technical people in a number of fields. Thailand needs educated and experienced native English speakers in a number of fields. Thailand does not need uneducated/fluff degreed people with no skills.

Think about what a wise immigration policy would have done to our home countries instead of creating expensive welfare states in the West. How much of your taxes in the West go to pay for unskilled, unemployed immigrants? Thailand is not so stupid.

[theoldgit]

Post in breach of Forum Rules removed.

[beb]

Found this on Stickman's site...

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand.

If you are rich and are sensible with money, then go ahead. If an international company or similar offers you a high salary job in Thailand then fine. If your are retired or have steady funds from aboard and want to live modestly on those funds, go ahead, but watch yourself. And if you're a young dude travelling around the world, and you want to spend some time in Thailand teaching or whatever for experience, then that's OK too.

If you don't fall into these categories then "don't" consider it for a moment. Many middle aged westerners in particular (including professionals) like the idea of living there, having a business or making some money and "enjoying life" in Thailand. But very few make it. (Forget about western restaurant or bar owners and alike you might meet in Thailand boasting about their good life there. It is common for faltering foreigners to keep up appearances). Mostly they end up broke or crazed, sometimes both, then they leave. Thai business, visa and residency laws get you in the end. The "Thai way" will get you in the end. Have a minor run-in with a wealthy or important Thai and your status and possibly your life will be at risk. Their whole culture is geared around making sure that foreigners pursuing individual efforts are not successful. It's ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonized master race of Asia (yes they really think that) and their mythology runs so deep you'll never budge it. Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership rights. But Thais can go to your country (very possibly) and buy and own anything they can get their hands on (because of the more tolerant business laws). To Thais, this is just further evidence of how clever they are, and how foolish are the foreigners to go to Thailand.

Remember too, that Thailand is dominated by a comparatively small military-industrial elite. They have all the power and most of the wealth in the country. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

Think of Thailand, for westerners, as being a bit like a casino. A casino is a place with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune / the good life, and a place for fun, even with a bit of a risk. Go to a casino every now and then for fun and that's OK. Go there everyday all-day and you will ultimately lose, because the House Advantage will always get you. So it is in Thailand. The Thai "House Advantage" will get you. They make sure of it.

Of course, if going to Thailand with all your money and slowly losing it and ending up teaching English for a pittance (because that's about all you can do), either illegally or working legally but being treated like a serf by Thai institutions, appeals to you then go ahead. And running around the country several times a year getting visas, or always being at the mercy of authorities on visa matters might be your bag. If so, then go ahead, at least you'll be able to spend your nights at cheap restaurants sharing your impoverishment and frustration with other exploited western teachers. If not, think seriously.

In case you are thinking, let me say that I am not a former go-go bar owner gone bust, I have not lost my all doing business with Thais, no I haven't been cheated of everything by a bar-girl, no I haven't been reduced to the indignity of teaching English for a pittance. I have my own money, have spent a lot of time in Thailand, and have done some business there, have observed the experiences of a lot of foreigners, can see what goes on, and have enough concern to want to tell others about it.

If my words can prevent even one westerner of modest means from selling up and going to "enjoy life" in Thailand (and getting shafted in the end) then that will be something. Don't make the mistake of thinking that as a foreigner (even with professional skills) you can "make a contribution" to Thailand, no matter how good your intentions or needed your skills may be. Your contribution will *never* be welcomed, only your money. There is a saying in Thai that captures it well: "farang roo mark my dee" - foreigners who know too much [about Thailand] are no good. Gullible tourists, however, are great.

So, go to Thailand as a tourist if you like, enjoy what you enjoy there, but don't be taken in by the culture or people, as many westerners have, and don't under any circumstances give up anything back home to go and stay there unless you are financially secure for life, or know exactly what you are doing.

There is a tradition of resident foreigners in Thailand not telling you the truth about the country because they don't like to admit to themselves and to others about the mistake they have made in moving there. But especially now, with the financial mess Thailand has got itself into through a mixture of greed, incompetence, arrogance and corruption, and the prospect of difficult times ahead (to say the least) it is time for plain speaking.

A final comment to anyone who strongly disagrees with these comments. Unless you have lived, worked and conducted business in Thailand for many years, I'm not interested. The views of "oh how can you say that, Thailand is really great" 2 week tourists carry no weight with those of us who know Thailand and Thais well.

So don't move here unless you have some way of supporting yourself?

I'd have thought that was pretty obvious.

Not entirely correct... In most countries, well more civilized at least, people are given the chance of actually getting a job. The Thai system does everything to prevent that from happening.

There are other countries that have more than their fair share of strange rules but the xenophobia in Thailand is deeply rooted within the system and though it's not impossible to get a job, it's hard unless you have the cash to start your own company and even that comes with a lot of illogical restrictions and rules.

But don't you find out that kind of information before you move to a country? And why stay if you somehow managed to move her without knowing that fact?

[beb]

Well, I didn't mean to ask for everybody's complaints about Thailand. I was specifically trying to understand why people who are very unhappy STAY. Moving to another country would be relatively inexpensive when compared living for years in misery.

[SoiBiker]

I get the impression some of them would be living in misery wherever they were.

[thailiketoo]

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

What about Bill Heinecke (one of the richest men in Thailand)? And there are many more.

Sorry Maxme. Violation of Thai Visa posting rules, (3 sentences not the whole dang thing).

And you are wrong.

I have met hundreds of Korean, Chinese and foreigners of other nationalities who have done very well in Thailand.

[maxme]

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

What about Bill Heinecke (one of the richest men in Thailand)? And there are many more.

Sorry Maxme. Violation of Thai Visa posting rules, (3 sentences not the whole dang thing).

And you are wrong.

I have met hundreds of Korean, Chinese and foreigners of other nationalities who have done very well in Thailand.

Well so do I but tell me how many foreigners work at McDonalds or 7eleven? And don't tell me it's because they don't want to take crappy jobs with low pay because there are those who would.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[thailiketoo]

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

What about Bill Heinecke (one of the richest men in Thailand)? And there are many more.

Sorry Maxme. Violation of Thai Visa posting rules, (3 sentences not the whole dang thing).

And you are wrong.

I have met hundreds of Korean, Chinese and foreigners of other nationalities who have done very well in Thailand.

Well so do I but tell me how many foreigners work at McDonalds or 7eleven? And don't tell me it's because they don't want to take crappy jobs with low pay because there are those who would.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You think the millions of Burmese or Khmer's who take the crappy jobs aren't foreigners?

The Thai government requires employers to pay minimum wage and also provide housing and medical care for the foreigners.

Edited May 2, 2014 by thailiketoo

[maxme]

By John Zachary Smith

I have some advice to any westerners out there contemplating moving to Thailand. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that they have over the Thai underclass - the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

What about Bill Heinecke (one of the richest men in Thailand)? And there are many more.

Sorry Maxme. Violation of Thai Visa posting rules, (3 sentences not the whole dang thing).

And you are wrong.

I have met hundreds of Korean, Chinese and foreigners of other nationalities who have done very well in Thailand.

Well so do I but tell me how many foreigners work at McDonalds or 7eleven? And don't tell me it's because they don't want to take crappy jobs with low pay because there are those who would.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You think the millions of Burmese or Khmer's who take the crappy jobs aren't foreigners?

How many burmese are working at 7eleven then?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[thailiketoo]

What about Bill Heinecke (one of the richest men in Thailand)? And there are many more.

Sorry Maxme. Violation of Thai Visa posting rules, (3 sentences not the whole dang thing).

And you are wrong.

I have met hundreds of Korean, Chinese and foreigners of other nationalities who have done very well in Thailand.

Well so do I but tell me how many foreigners work at McDonalds or 7eleven? And don't tell me it's because they don't want to take crappy jobs with low pay because there are those who would.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You think the millions of Burmese or Khmer's who take the crappy jobs aren't foreigners?

How many burmese are working at 7eleven then?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I don't know. Most of the Burmese I see are working at jobs that don't require much customer contact as they don't speak Thai very well.