kovaltech Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 All depends what you want to "draw" (watts) from any system... If running any household equipment ( fridge - water pump ) then a pure sine wave inverter is a must. An 800 watts/ hour, with start reserve for small electric engines will cost +-10K bath A battery , deep cycle, 160 amps = +-6500 Bath Average houshold will draw 150 - 300 watts/ hour (average) at 150 watts/Hour you'll have 12-14 hrs of backup power. You can ad a solar panel later to charge your battery or try the systems wich they build now in north east Thailand, They make energy in the middle of nowhere from green waste charcoal, to run their engines, bikes, waterpumps , cooking and charging the battery's ww.renewableenergythailand.com If running any household equipment ( fridge - water pump ) then a pure sine wave inverter is a must. sshhhhh.... don't tell my two water pumps (house water supply)! they run since 7½ years on a non-pure sine wave inverter that kicks in when the voltage drops below 200V. if they find out they might go on strike and we have to flush our toilets with buckets of water from the pool. ssssshhhhhht....... Don't tell, i blew my fridge on a "improved sine wave" and my pump did not run on it (condensator started) On the true sine wave everything runs perfect ( studer inverter ) maybe i had a bad china copy of the improved sine wave ... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 With all due respect Kovaltech, we are NOT talking about doomsday, empty wall outlets etc. We ARE talking about practical backup power for when the grid is out (for a finite time). My little cheap Thai genset has done a good few hours over the last 3 years (it doesn't have an hour meter so I can't be absolute) but it still starts and runs like it did on day one (had the carb cleaned out a couple of times). The power it makes is not cheap, but it's there when needed. BTW, the device marked in uF (microfarads) has never been a "condensator" and has not been a "condenser" during my professional life, it is a "capacitor". And yes, square wave inverters are not good for motors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 With all due respect Kovaltech, we are NOT talking about doomsday, empty wall outlets etc. We ARE talking about practical backup power for when the grid is out (for a finite time). My little cheap Thai genset has done a good few hours over the last 3 years (it doesn't have an hour meter so I can't be absolute) but it still starts and runs like it did on day one (had the carb cleaned out a couple of times). The power it makes is not cheap, but it's there when needed. BTW, the device marked in uF (microfarads) has never been a "condensator" and has not been a "condenser" during my professional life, it is a "capacitor". And yes, square wave inverters are not good for motors. i'm not sure what Kovaltech's mother tongue is but he seems to be a European. in German a "capacitor" is a "Kondensator", in Spanish it's "condensador", in French it's a "condensateur", Danish "kondensator", Italian "condensatore"... same same similar in some other European languages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 All depends what you want to "draw" (watts) from any system... If running any household equipment ( fridge - water pump ) then a pure sine wave inverter is a must. An 800 watts/ hour, with start reserve for small electric engines will cost +-10K bath A battery , deep cycle, 160 amps = +-6500 Bath Average houshold will draw 150 - 300 watts/ hour (average) at 150 watts/Hour you'll have 12-14 hrs of backup power. You can ad a solar panel later to charge your battery or try the systems wich they build now in north east Thailand, They make energy in the middle of nowhere from green waste charcoal, to run their engines, bikes, waterpumps , cooking and charging the battery's ww.renewableenergythailand.com If running any household equipment ( fridge - water pump ) then a pure sine wave inverter is a must. sshhhhh.... don't tell my two water pumps (house water supply)! they run since 7½ years on a non-pure sine wave inverter that kicks in when the voltage drops below 200V. if they find out they might go on strike and we have to flush our toilets with buckets of water from the pool. ssssshhhhhht....... Don't tell, i blew my fridge on a "improved sine wave" and my pump did not run on it (condensator started) On the true sine wave everything runs perfect ( studer inverter ) maybe i had a bad china copy of the improved sine wave ... ;-) we had in another thread the "pure sine wave" discussion ad nauseam but the emphasis was on "electronic equipment" which is in "dire need" of pure sine wave. i'm not an expert like Crossy and can speak only based on my long experience using inverters in two different countries. and my experience says "never any problems". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 With all due respect Kovaltech, we are NOT talking about doomsday, empty wall outlets etc. We ARE talking about practical backup power for when the grid is out (for a finite time). My little cheap Thai genset has done a good few hours over the last 3 years (it doesn't have an hour meter so I can't be absolute) but it still starts and runs like it did on day one (had the carb cleaned out a couple of times). The power it makes is not cheap, but it's there when needed. BTW, the device marked in uF (microfarads) has never been a "condensator" and has not been a "condenser" during my professional life, it is a "capacitor". And yes, square wave inverters are not good for motors. i'm not sure what Kovaltech's mother tongue is but he seems to be a European. in German a "capacitor" is a "Kondensator", in Spanish it's "condensador", in French it's a "condensateur", Danish "kondensator", Italian "condensatore"... same same similar in some other European languages. yes , european, from belgium to be exact... sorry for my bad english ... another word learned... from 50% to 50,0001 % now ;-) to Crossy; ok, not doomsday... but ever experienced a 30 day blackout ? One friend of mine, Thai national, is a oil company sales man, with his own distribution center near Udon Thani... They had a few serious blackouts about 12 years ago... he said its horrifying to see how fast a system can collapse if some mayor power lines go down... This is also why the Thai government wants to decentralize in the rural area's anyhow, having a genset is always better then no power at all, i fully agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) is this set what they called "the waiting for the big bang" theory ? what about the explosive gasses in the house ? certainly when recharging after a long period of power failure... Edited May 1, 2014 by astral Removal of long quote - Please use Reply button a the bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 is this set what they called "the waiting for the big bang" theory ? what about the explosive gasses in the house ? certainly when recharging after a long period of power failure... i'm a physicist Kovaltech and i can assure you that all locations where inverters are installed are properly and continously ventilated by exhaust fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morakot Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I was impressed about the high tech diagram for a solar power set up, at this week's Architect Expo in Bangkok. Edited May 1, 2014 by Morakot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 is this set what they called "the waiting for the big bang" theory ? what about the explosive gasses in the house ? certainly when recharging after a long period of power failure... i'm a physicist Kovaltech and i can assure you that all locations where inverters are installed are properly and continously ventilated by exhaust fans. There goes the Big Bang Theory..... ;-) But the set looks nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astral Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I have a similar setup to Nam, but not as neat I have never had a problem with gas or smell Ventilation is the answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dharmabm Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 And now for the *simple* solution - go buy an Apple Macbook which works for up to 12 hours on battery http://store.apple.com/th/buy-mac/macbook-air OMFG, do you fanboys never quit?!?! do you even understand the conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I was impressed about the high tech diagram for a solar power set up, at this week's Architect Expo in Bangkok. That "buy" meter pricing is a bit naughty though.... more like 4-5 now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 And now for the *simple* solution - go buy an Apple Macbook which works for up to 12 hours on battery http://store.apple.com/th/buy-mac/macbook-air OMFG, do you fanboys never quit?!?! do you even understand the conversation? Sir, I do believe it's you that has overlooked the requirements of the OP, as have lots of other in this thread. fanboy?? eh? it's a computer, just one that has really good battery life. You can run Windows or Linux or DOS on it if you want to. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 to Crossy; ok, not doomsday... but ever experienced a 30 day blackout ? One friend of mine, Thai national, is a oil company sales man, with his own distribution center near Udon Thani... They had a few serious blackouts about 12 years ago... he said its horrifying to see how fast a system can collapse if some mayor power lines go down... This is also why the Thai government wants to decentralize in the rural area's anyhow, having a genset is always better then no power at all, i fully agree with that. Yes, I have experienced a 30 day blackout, during the 2011 flooding we were without mains power for six months. We would have been lost without a genset (luckily power was available a few km away so fuel wasn't an issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I have a similar setup to Nam, but not as neat I have never had a problem with gas or smell Ventilation is the answer Storing the power in battery's seems the most "cost" efficient way... Based on such i build mine and i try to teach to local people to do also... Running an electric water pump on the land with home loaded battery is 5 times less expensive Anyhow, many ways to replace a power source For those who are interested in Real green energy or want some possible idea's for their own purposes visit www.renewableenergythailand.com teaching rural people how they can make and use energy themselves... maybe some of you have also good idea's, they are much appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) is this set what they called "the waiting for the big bang" theory ? what about the explosive gasses in the house ? certainly when recharging after a long period of power failure... i'm a physicist Kovaltech and i can assure you that all locations where inverters are installed are properly and continously ventilated by exhaust fans. Just a reminder to all contemplating this set up, if installed in an enclosed space the ventilation must be at the highest point of the enclosed space as the gas produced is hydrogen. Ideally it should be ventilated direct to outside. I have seen first hand the result of a hydrogen gas build up and resultant explosion which ended up with one death (guy was literally blown out of his coveralls) and one serious burn injury. Edited May 2, 2014 by canman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Storing the power in battery's seems the most "cost" efficient way... Based on such i build mine and i try to teach to local people to do also... Running an electric water pump on the land with home loaded battery is 5 times less expensive Anyhow, many ways to replace a power source For those who are interested in Real green energy or want some possible idea's for their own purposes visit www.renewableenergythailand.com teaching rural people how they can make and use energy themselves... maybe some of you have also good idea's, they are much appreciated... the problem with real green energy is that its generation is real time consuming. my bet, as far as the future is concerned, is on photovoltaic energy generation. prices have come down considerably and will come down much more with exponentially higher production and perhaps additional technology to increase efficiency. alas, power hogs like me won't have a chance to benefit. for us it's grid supply or fuel burning generators if the grid is insufficient or unreliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Just a quick question for you guys. Sorry slightly off topic. I am in Bangkok for a few days before going home to Issam I wish to buy some solar panels and a regulator / charger for a small projects (load less than 200W) Where should I go for the best selection / price. Thanks sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 is this set what they called "the waiting for the big bang" theory ? what about the explosive gasses in the house ? certainly when recharging after a long period of power failure... i'm a physicist Kovaltech and i can assure you that all locations where inverters are installed are properly and continously ventilated by exhaust fans. Just a reminder to all contemplating this set up, if installed in an enclosed space the ventilation must be at the highest point of the enclosed space as the gas produced is hydrogen. Ideally it should be ventilated direct to outside. I have seen first hand the result of a hydrogen gas build up and resultant explosion which ended up with one death (guy was literally blown out of his coveralls) and one serious burn injury. I agree with this statement. I have seen similar accidents ( multiple cases ) The most stupid one was a tech entering the room with a sigaret... He's gone with a bang, so was half of the room... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Just a quick question for you guys. Sorry slightly off topic. I am in Bangkok for a few days before going home to Issam I wish to buy some solar panels and a regulator / charger for a small projects (load less than 200W) Where should I go for the best selection / price. Thanks sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Not sure of the quality, but Amorn has solar panels and chargers which are impressively cheap. A year back they had 280W/35-45V mono-crystal panels for 5900 baht. 21baht/watt. Edit: Now they don't seem to have such a great prices anymore http://www.amornsolar.com/ Edited May 2, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Just a quick question for you guys. Sorry slightly off topic. I am in Bangkok for a few days before going home to Issam I wish to buy some solar panels and a regulator / charger for a small projects (load less than 200W) Where should I go for the best selection / price. Thanks sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Not sure of the quality, but Amorn has solar panels and chargers which are impressively cheap. A year back they had 280W/35-45V mono-crystal panels for 5900 baht. 21baht/watt. Thanks. Is there any specific branch you recommend? Currently I am thinking either Zeer Rangsit or old Siam Plaza sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Zeer have Amorn Solar a small showroom separate from the main Amorn shop, both are in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Thanks.Is there any specific branch you recommend? Currently I am thinking either Zeer Rangsit or old Siam Plaza Unfortunately I can not (This was in Phuket). I have just bought a very low wattage model just to play with it. 5W/12V panel combined with a car lighter usb-charger hardly managed to charge a mobile phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Zeer have Amorn Solar a small showroom separate from the main Amorn shop, both are in the basement.Thanks I will get a taxi for Zeer in soonsent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kovaltech Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sorry , OP, i am a little confused... Issam or isaan ? Nearly any larger city; korat, Kohn Kaen, Udon, Nong Khai, they all have the same Amorn shops and prices... As mentioned by the other posters aprox 5900 Bath for one large panel >200watts + inverter etc totaling +-12.000 bath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Sorry , OP, i am a little confused... Issam or isaan ? Nearly any larger city; korat, Kohn Kaen, Udon, Nong Khai, they all have the same Amorn shops and prices... As mentioned by the other posters aprox 5900 Bath for one large panel >200watts + inverter etc totaling +-12.000 bath Thanks. I learnt today is an Amorn near Ubon but I want to buy here as i expect a better selection.As for Issan my phone likes to adjust my spelling:-( sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I found and purchased my system. It will be delivered to Ubon for me to collect next week. Thanks to all for the help sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Edited May 2, 2014 by thaimite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I found and purchased my system. It will be delivered to Ubon for me to collect next week. Thanks to all for the help Not so fast. Please tell us what kind of system did you got and what was the price tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I found and purchased my system. It will be delivered to Ubon for me to collect next week. Thanks to all for the help Not so fast. Please tell us what kind of system did you got and what was the price tag OK that seems fairI stated I wanted a system.with maximum 200W for lighting etc. When I saw the range I bought: 160A/hour sealed msintenance free battery 6000 baht 300W sine wave inverter 2100baht 30A charger 1,500 Baht And finally for initial trials a 120W solar panel 4200 baht. It is a 12V system as I did not want the expense of 2 batteries but I may add a 2nd solar panel later in parallel if needed for charging Total for the day less than 14K baht sent from my Internet aware non fruity mobile device Edited May 2, 2014 by thaimite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaimite Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) This will keep my external garden / security lights burning all night and also the internal house lights. The plan is to wire it up via a relay so if the inverter / battery fails the lights will switch back to regular power Note all my lighting is low power LED where possible. I may add other items such as modems and routers to the setup later. Its only a matter of wiring them to the house lighting circuit. CCTV cameras are also candidates for the lighting circuits Edited May 2, 2014 by thaimite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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