Bangkok concerned about state of Lumpini Park's ecosystem: PDRC occupation

[marko kok prong]

Heaven help the people in this forum. If you are not an environmental scientist, please keep your mouths shut about what is good and not good, acceptable and not acceptable. I am an environmental enginerr for the US gov't and the EU. I studied under some of the best environmental scientists in the world and this could end up as a very serious health and environmental problem for bkk and the people there. It is more serious than you think. interaction with the ground water which will also affect the water supply to your homes, trees are air purifiers and we need them healthy, micro organisms that can be deadly, rat infestistations, and the list goes on and on. Not to mention run off that inevitably ends up in the sea and in your food supply. The ignorance is astounding.

Is that in addition to being a pmp as you stated in another of your rants, sorry posts,wow do you also have the answer to the meaning of life,the universe and everything,maybe you should change your name to Godman 1976.

[geoman1976]

Heaven help the people in this forum. If you are not an environmental scientist, please keep your mouths shut about what is good and not good, acceptable and not acceptable. I am an environmental enginerr for the US gov't and the EU. I studied under some of the best environmental scientists in the world and this could end up as a very serious health and environmental problem for bkk and the people there. It is more serious than you think. interaction with the ground water which will also affect the water supply to your homes, trees are air purifiers and we need them healthy, micro organisms that can be deadly, rat infestistations, and the list goes on and on. Not to mention run off that inevitably ends up in the sea and in your food supply. The ignorance is astounding.

Have you ever been to Bangkok?

I live there...lol. Pom phut thai dai krap. my wife is thai and I am an engineering professor at one of the top universities. Any other questions? BTW, what does that have to do with the color in the sky?

(laughing in ya' face!!!)

Edited May 2, 2014 by geoman1976

[Dogmatix]

What about the monitor lizards? They have few sanctuaries in Bangkok.

[BigMountain]

Geoman makes great points. Thx for the info.

Sutheps crew trashed lumphini and now its disgusting. I used to love taking my family there on weekends. Hopefully it recovers

[geoman1976]

Geoman makes great points. Thx for the info.

Sutheps crew trashed lumphini and now its disgusting. I used to love taking my family there on weekends. Hopefully it recovers

You're welcome Big Mountain. That is why I chose the path I did, I wanted to help the world. I am happy to help any chance I get. If you ever want to chat, don't hesitate to hit me up. Cheers!

Edited May 2, 2014 by geoman1976

[geoman1976]

Well, basically, it is not a few people and it is in a small concentrated area. Also, it has been going on for some period now, and the concntation of contaminents in a small area like that cause serious risks because the local area cannot handle such a concentration over a short period of time. Sanitation and environmental sleanliness has to do with limits as to what the area can naturally dilute before becoming a serious risk. In other words, the natural healthy balance of an ecosystem is thrown off because it doesn't have time to clean itself. Also, if the fish die in mass numbers it attracts pests and micro organisms in high conentration putting everyone exposed at high risk. Ever hear of the black plague in Europe? If I am remembering correctly, it wiped out half of Europe's population and was caused by a few stow away rats on a ship that came into port in Venice. They had very poor practices of disposing of their feces and biproducts resulting in an ideal environment for rat breeding and infestation. The concentrations are just too high. An ecosystem is a chemical equation based around a balanced dillution. This is why sewage treatment plants are soooooooo important. And these contaminents DO make it to the sea. this is particularly dangerous because that is the start of the food chain. Every mass extinction in history started in the oceans. Contrary to what many people think, the dinosaur extinction last for hundreds of thousands of years. beginning gradualy because of a change in the CO2 levels in the ocean from thawing frozen methane deposits that exist at the bottoms of our seas. Then there was an asteroid impact on the Yucatan Pennicnsula which did abruptly wipe out large numbers of species and cauised another gradual decline with the missing links in the food chain. Every mass extinction in history is based around the food chain, actually, and changes in the environment that caused them. Does this answer your questions? Please let me know if you have more.

Edited May 3, 2014 by theoldgit
Deleted post edited out.

[ClutchClark]

This is not about tree-hugging. It's about thousands of people living in Bangkok who enjoy jogging, cycling or just hanging out there every day. Enjoying one of the very few relaxing and green areas in Bangkok is now impossible because some thugs made their camp over there. No excuse from Suthep about the inconvenience, totally disrespecting the pleasure it gives to many Bangkok inhabitants. Many elderly Thai people from Bangkok normally go there every day to enjoy each others company, having a talk and see the world go by. Not anymore, because it's a shit hole right now. The early sympathy Bangkok had for Suthep and his followers is long gone, because they now see clearly that Suthep doesn't give shit about Bangkok and its citizens.

You sure got that right.

My morning runs have gone to heck ever since, what? December? Its ridiculous.

I just look forward to monsoon season ;-)

Those tents and tarps don't stsnd a chance.

[ClutchClark]

What about the monitor lizards? They have few sanctuaries in Bangkok.

I still go to Lumpini 3 times a week. I look for the monitor lizards but no longer see any.

I assumed they found their way to the bar-b-q in the first month.

[Mudcrab]

I live there...lol. Pom phut thai dai krap. my wife is thai and I am an engineering professor at one of the top universities. Any other questions? BTW, what does that have to do with the color in the sky?

(laughing in ya' face!!!)

Not sure of the relevance of your wife being Thai.....thanks for sharing......but can you explain, with all you professorial knowledge, how a few people pissing in a pond is going to lead to the downfall of the total ecosystem of Bangkok as we know it.

I would hazard a guess that if the afore mentioned people pissing in the pond was the only run-off going in to the sea then the water quality in Thailand would be improved immeasurably.

Maybe ask the missus and she will tell you it won't make an iota of difference, and the rats are tasty

Well, basically, it is not a few people and it is in a small concentrated area. Also, it has been going on for some period now, and the concntation of contaminents in a small area like that cause serious risks because the local area cannot handle such a concentration over a short period of time. Sanitation and environmental sleanliness has to do with limits as to what the area can naturally dilute before becoming a serious risk. In other words, the natural healthy balance of an ecosystem is thrown off because it doesn't have time to clean itself. Also, if the fish die in mass numbers it attracts pests and micro organisms in high conentration putting everyone exposed at high risk. Ever hear of the black plague in Europe? If I am remembering correctly, it wiped out half of Europe's population and was caused by a few stow away rats on a ship that came into port in Venice. They had very poor practices of disposing of their feces and biproducts resulting in an ideal environment for rat breeding and infestation. The concentrations are just too high. An ecosystem is a chemical equation based around a balanced dillution. This is why we sewage treatment plants are soooooooo important. And these contaminents DO make it to the sea. this is particularly dangerouDoes that answer your s because that is the start of teh food chain. Every mass extinction in history started in the oceans. Contrary to what many people think, the dinosaur extinction last for hundreds of thousands of years. beginning gradualy because of a change in the CO2 levels in the ocean from thawing frozen methane deposits that exist at the bottoms of our seas. Then there was an asteroid impact on the Yucatan Pennicnsula which did abruptly wipe out large numbers of species and cauised another gradual decline with the missing links in the food chain. Every mass extinction in history is based around the food chain, actually, and changes in the environment that caused them. Does this answer your questions? Please let me know if you have more.

Nope. When you have 11 million people living in a flood plain all dumping their contaminants in to the sea daily....a few people in a park make no measurable difference.

They will go away and the balance will be restored.

The water issues are being managed by engineers,not academics, let them do their jobs and stop stressing.

An asteroid hit on Bangkok (around Nana Plaza perhaps?) may make an marginal improvement I agree, but to get all wound up about a few people in a park is just plain silly and you should know better.

I agree that the changes in the ocean are the driver of evolution. If it wasn't for ocean organisms producing oxygen over millenia we would never have evolved.

Oh and by the way there were quite a few plagues in Europe before the (in)famous Black Plague of which you speak. You are misguided about the rats spreading the plague. They did not. The vector was the fleas that lived on the rats. I'm surprised that as a self professed professor you got this wrong.

And we survived as a species.

A mass outbreak of blue green algae can and does cause mass fish kills as I have witnessed. Guess what - a few days later nobody would even know it had happened.

Now - back to your University and lecture to the unknowing and gullible.

[bigbamboo]

Well........ I suppose if nothing else comes out of Suthep's bid to change the world at least the people of Bangkok might learn to appreciate the postage stamp of nature they call Lumpini Park.

[geoman1976]

Nope. When you have 11 million people living in a flood plain all dumping their contaminants in to the sea daily....a few people in a park make no measurable difference.

They will go away and the balance will be restored.

The water issues are being managed by engineers,not academics, let them do their jobs and stop stressing.

An asteroid hit on Bangkok (around Nana Plaza perhaps?) may make an marginal improvement I agree, but to get all wound up about a few people in a park is just plain silly and you should know better.

I agree that the changes in the ocean are the driver of evolution. If it wasn't for ocean organisms producing oxygen over millenia we would never have evolved.

Oh and by the way there were quite a few plagues in Europe before the (in)famous Black Plague of which you speak. You are misguided about the rats spreading the plague. They did not. The vector was the fleas that lived on the rats. I'm surprised that as a self professed professor you got this wrong.

And we survived as a species.

A mass outbreak of blue green algae can and does cause mass fish kills as I have witnessed. Guess what - a few days later nobody would even know it had happened.

Now - back to your University and lecture to the unknowing and gullible.

Edited May 3, 2014 by theoldgit
Deleted post edited out.

[leggo]

I walked down to Lumpini Park last week to check it out; the family has a house a few hundred meters away so I used to walk there regularly until it got invaded and all I can say that the place is a shit hole- literally. Apparently they are moving out at the end of the month and from a purely personal perspective- good riddance. The rainy season should start soon and with a bit of luck the park will return to what it should be - somewhere for everybody who wants to escape from the concrete jungle .

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[geoman1976]

I walked down to Lumpini Park last week to check it out; the family has a house a few hundred meters away so I used to walk there regularly until it got invaded and all I can say that the place is a shit hole- literally. Apparently they are moving out at the end of the month and from a purely personal perspective- good riddance. The rainy season should start soon and with a bit of luck the park will return to what it should be - somewhere for everybody who wants to escape from the concrete jungle .

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I hope so too, my friend. I am doing rain dances now...lol.

[Mentors]

The paid whistle mob with elderly most coming from the upper South doesn't care much about quality of live for Bangkokians.

They will move back home soon.

But to be fair, nearly the whole country looks like a garbage area.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Mentors

[JAG]

Would that be two Navy SEALS cunningly disguised as ducks in the photo on the original post?

Edited May 2, 2014 by JAG

[Thai at Heart]

I would hazard that the average run off from a standard wet market in Thailand does infinitely more damage to the environment than filling up.the park.

Once everyone had left, the park would regenerate itself but I am sure it will be returned to its beautiful prior state.

If a coast line can regenerate after a crude oil.spill I am sure lumpini will make it. In fact, if it could prosper in the pollution in bangkok, it would probably survive much worse than Suthep and his crew.

Edited May 3, 2014 by theoldgit
Deleted post edited out.

[diehard60]

Ii is a little too late to worry about it now. You people in bangkok shoudl have learned from the past experiences of this group when they destroyed government house and the two airports. No one was charged for anything when that happened. Just like now no one will have to pay except for the tax payers.

[theoldgit]

Insulting post removed, as well as some responses.

[bkkjames]

Ii is a little too late to worry about it now. You people in bangkok shoudl have learned from the past experiences of this group when they destroyed government house and the two airports. No one was charged for anything when that happened. Just like now no one will have to pay except for the tax payers.

Destroyed 2 airports? I witnessed cw and various other buildings in flames however.

Sent from my LG-P970

[theoldgit]

Post suggesting extreme violence removed.

[rubl]

Heaven help the people in this forum. If you are not an environmental scientist, please keep your mouths shut about what is good and not good, acceptable and not acceptable. I am an environmental enginerr for the US gov't and the EU. I studied under some of the best environmental scientists in the world and this could end up as a very serious health and environmental problem for bkk and the people there. It is more serious than you think. interaction with the ground water which will also affect the water supply to your homes, trees are air purifiers and we need them healthy, micro organisms that can be deadly, rat infestistations, and the list goes on and on. Not to mention run off that inevitably ends up in the sea and in your food supply. The ignorance is astounding.

Have you ever been to Bangkok?

I live there...lol. Pom phut thai dai krap. my wife is thai and I am an engineering professor at one of the top universities. Any other questions? BTW, what does that have to do with the color in the sky?

(laughing in ya' face!!!)

Have you ever been to the more 'slummy' areas in Bangkok, or some of the small (sub)sois where you can see the blue waterpipes laying on the ground? Even here in Khet Dusit I just have to walk a bit into the smaller sois and it's all visible.

To blame the 'handfull' of anti-government protesters in Lumpini seems a wee bit overdone.

Mind you, to keep your inocculations up-to-date is always good advise.

[leggo]

For the so called scientific specialists quoted here I have only one comment- environmental rubbish!

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hughben]

Have they started eating the monitor lizards yet? Someone said they noticed only one on their last visit. There were more previously.

[Songlaw]

This is not about tree-hugging. It's about thousands of people living in Bangkok who enjoy jogging, cycling or just hanging out there every day. Enjoying one of the very few relaxing and green areas in Bangkok is now impossible because some thugs made their camp over there. No excuse from Suthep about the inconvenience, totally disrespecting the pleasure it gives to many Bangkok inhabitants. Many elderly Thai people from Bangkok normally go there every day to enjoy each others company, having a talk and see the world go by. Not anymore, because it's a shit hole right now. The early sympathy Bangkok had for Suthep and his followers is long gone, because they now see clearly that Suthep doesn't give shit about Bangkok and its citizens.

I am amazed at how long it has taken Suthep's 'followers' to wake up to the fact that all he has done is systematically hold their homes, families and businesses (such as they were) hostage in an attempt to bring Bangkok to its knees and obliterate any pretense towards democracy by returning Thailand to oligarchical/military rule. Doublespeak has completed its migration eastward. I hear few decrying the People's 'Democratic' Reform Committee, as it does everything it can to undermine and dismantle the closest thing to a democratically elected government that modern day Thailand has yet seen. What anyone thinks about Thaksin or Yingluck has no place in this equation. Thailand and her people have the right to determine their own destiny and commit mistakes in pursuit of that objective. If Suthep is such a 'people's champion', let him enter the political fray and swell the ranks of his 'faithful' through his superior ideas and transparency of motives, thus altering the results at the polls, rather than through misinformation and blatant coercion. Yingluck and the PT may not be the armchair politicians' cup of tea, but as it stands, they are the duly elected representatives of the Thai people and should be unequivocally protected and supported by the Monarchy and government institutions sworn to uphold the rule of law. Yingluck has already thrown herself on her sword (by voluntarily dissolving parliament) and by allowing what should have been viewed as superfluous and elections to take place in February. Even going so far as to subject herself to the machinations of the National Anti Corruption Commission, all in an effort to prevent further suffering and potential bloodshed on the part of her constituents. Let us not forget that she has been serving as PM with the King's blessing for both her government and the elections that put her in office. Yet Thaugsuban remains impervious to Lese Majeste and is allowed to commit seditious acts with impunity while the duly elected prime minister is treated like a common criminal, with virtually no official support. What exactly is she supposed to do under these absurd circumstances?

[geoman1976]

OKay, regardless of what some people on this forum say, a full on Phase 2 evaluation needs to be done on the site. First, tourists are not going into to these smaller slums and playing with their kids in the grass. This a negligable statement as are others stated. It is not just about the water there. There are too many variables to say it is harmless. And no one blamed them for the filth that exists in BKK. However, the potential certainly exists for something more serious to happen and it is best to take precautions. These people responding on here cannot say that the people in the park themselves are not carriers of something that "farang" can't handle, nor can they say that the ground contamination does not exists as a threat. We have been under drought conditions and sanitation is about dillution and filtration. It would be responsible to monitor where the POTENTIAL contaminents may be. My country is pretty clean, so maybe it's best to listen and learn. Also, areas like this are potential breeding grounds for new viruses. And also, these responses are talking about the future of the park being cleaner. This is a certainty with the rainy season coming but what about now. To those who want to say that there is nothing to worry about, I challenge you to go to the park with your family and spend a day frollicking in the filth. I NEVER said there is an inescapable danger here. I simply initially gave suggestions for monitoring and exercise caution. To take offense to this is careless. What about soi dogs that stray into the park and pick up fleas or exposure to something that we may not realise is there. These guys have no idea what has been dumped there including bio produsts, and hazardous chemicals associated with cooking fuels, etc. A phase 2 would be the responsible thing to do. In the US, if you buy a small property where there was a laundry, gas station, etc., it is the law to do a phase 2 before the transaction can take place. This is a precautionary measure. 99 percent of the time it is okay...no worries. But it is that 1% that we have to protect ourselves from. These guys are short sited and not comprhensive in their replies. I am finished and I will leave up to the readers now whether they want to take precaution or not. At least, if they listen to me, they are that much wiser now. If these are engineers replying to me in BKK, WOW, you have done such a knock out job thus far. I would listen to someone who worked for governemnts in the west first. Again, if you feel there is nothing dangerous...go to the park with your family and play in he filth for a while...NOW...not 3 months from now. Put your money where your mouth is. Now, I am finished and i will leave you negative people who act irresponsibly and don't care about teh well being of others to wallow in your own misery and negative lively hood.

Edited May 4, 2014 by geoman1976

[Scott]

Let's please stay on the topic. There are a lot of threads for comments on the politics of the situation. This one is more about the park itself.

Some years ago, I worked in an area on the outskirts of Bangkok that was still developing. There was a lovely area between two small sois that had some large beautiful trees. Several food vendors set up small venues. It became rather popular with some of the foreign staff who liked to stop and have a few beers in the shade and perhaps have a meal. The problem was that all of the water used for cooking, cleaning was dumped on the ground. There is a lot of salt in the water. Within a year the trees began to die. The last time I was by the area, there was not a single live tree there.

[rubl]

Let's please stay on the topic. There are a lot of threads for comments on the politics of the situation. This one is more about the park itself.

Some years ago, I worked in an area on the outskirts of Bangkok that was still developing. There was a lovely area between two small sois that had some large beautiful trees. Several food vendors set up small venues. It became rather popular with some of the foreign staff who liked to stop and have a few beers in the shade and perhaps have a meal. The problem was that all of the water used for cooking, cleaning was dumped on the ground. There is a lot of salt in the water. Within a year the trees began to die. The last time I was by the area, there was not a single live tree there.

maybe not only the water but also the cooking oil which even when separated still leaves traces in the dirty dish washing water. This being a 'wateringhole' probably also used for 'urinals' and untreated faecalien ?

ADD: at least the BMA supports protesters (of any colour) with sanitary facilities.

Edited May 4, 2014 by rubl

[geoman1976]

aha...oil company employees...lol...get real. How do you know a scientist from an oil company is lying? His lips are moving...lol.

[Thai at Heart]

OKay, regardless of what some people on this forum say, a full on Phase 2 evaluation needs to be done on the site. First, tourists are not going into to these smaller slums and playing with their kids in the grass. This a negligable statement as are others stated. It is not just about the water there. There are too many variables to say it is harmless. And no one blamed them for the filth that exists in BKK. However, the potential certainly exists for something more serious to happen and it is best to take precautions. These people responding on here cannot say that the people in the park themselves are not carriers of something that "farang" can't handle, nor can they say that the ground contamination does not exists as a threat. We have been under drought conditions and sanitation is about dillution and filtration. It would be responsible to monitor where the POTENTIAL contaminents may be. My country is pretty clean, so maybe it's best to listen and learn. Also, areas like this are potential breeding grounds for new viruses. And also, these responses are talking about the future of the park being cleaner. This is a certainty with the rainy season coming but what about now. To those who want to say that there is nothing to worry about, I challenge you to go to the park with your family and spend a day frollicking in the filth. I NEVER said there is an inescapable danger here. I simply initially gave suggestions for monitoring and exercise caution. To take offense to this is careless. What about soi dogs that stray into the park and pick up fleas or exposure to something that we may not realise is there. These guys have no idea what has been dumped there including bio produsts, and hazardous chemicals associated with cooking fuels, etc. A phase 2 would be the responsible thing to do. In the US, if you buy a small property where there was a laundry, gas station, etc., it is the law to do a phase 2 before the transaction can take place. This is a precautionary measure. 99 percent of the time it is okay...no worries. But it is that 1% that we have to protect ourselves from. These guys are short sited and not comprhensive in their replies. I am finished and I will leave up to the readers now whether they want to take precaution or not. At least, if they listen to me, they are that much wiser now. If these are engineers replying to me in BKK, WOW, you have done such a knock out job thus far. I would listen to someone who worked for governemnts in the west first. Again, if you feel there is nothing dangerous...go to the park with your family and play in he filth for a while...NOW...not 3 months from now. Put your money where your mouth is. Now, I am finished and i will leave you negative people who act irresponsibly and don't care about teh well being of others to wallow in your own misery and negative lively hood.

I would suggest that living next to Mapthaput is probably more dangerous by a large degree. You ever seen the storm drains pumping rubbish into the sea in the resort?

And people still swim happily there. They will clean Lumpini up in a couple of weeks and within a month or two it will be fine.

Dumping chemicals or cooking fuel? Every restaurant in the country sluices its basic waste straight in the drain every day. In this sun and heat, bacteria will degrade the waste very fast.

You talk as though it is some sort of biohazard tip. You walk the streets of bangkok every day. You think the average sewer is all in good order?

[ClutchClark]

I would suggest that living next to Mapthaput is probably more dangerous by a large degree. You ever seen the storm drains pumping rubbish into the sea in the resort?

And people still swim happily there. They will clean Lumpini up in a couple of weeks and within a month or two it will be fine.

Dumping chemicals or cooking fuel? Every restaurant in the country sluices its basic waste straight in the drain every day. In this sun and heat, bacteria will degrade the waste very fast.

You talk as though it is some sort of biohazard tip. You walk the streets of bangkok every day. You think the average sewer is all in good order?

I don't think anyone has made the claim that the current conditions in Lumpini are the worst in the country.

By pointing out other locations that are worse and using those locations as a baseline on why no one should be concerned about Lumpini is an upside down philosophy.

It is setting the bar at the lowest point possible rather than raising the bar to the standards that were always maintained at Lumpini.

Lumpini has been successfully managed for decades, it has been a lone gem floating in the cesspool which is BKK. In the last 6 months, environmental conditions at Lumpini have deteriorated significantly and all the people who used to enjoy their mornings/evenings at Lumpini have suffered and been displaced. I don't know if you ever spend time there but it is typically filled with people of all ages--little kids on tricycles all the way to ancients in wheelchairs.

Thats the focus of this thread. Its not how no one should worry about Lumpini because it has room to get worse.

I was one of those people who ran every morning at Lumpini for a couple of years and I will be very happy for monsoons to wash those protesters out.

Cheers

Edited May 5, 2014 by ClutchClark