Thai opposition urges PM to resign, refuses to back poll

[Thailand]

Yingluck resign?

I thought the caretaker government etc were exactly that, an interim caretaker government and Prime Minister pending elections to determine who should be in power following the peoples choice?

[MaxLee]

So we will boicot the election, and if you not agree we will boicot the elections...

Thailand need an election. And a majority government formed from that election.

There is no legal basis for a neutral government. And good luck finding anyone neutral. Until the traditionalist nationalists can accept that they are a minority in Thailand as of the last 20 years, I dont see any way out of this that does not end in political chaos. The Democrats "solution" is not one, its just a promise to block the july election and plunging Thailand into recession. If after half a year of owning the media spotlight bashing the PT government for various schemes and "corruption", they still can not win a national election, that says something about how far from mass appeal the democrats really is.

Election-Collection, Election-Collection, how do you solve Thailand's ongoing problems?

With Election-Collection

Election-Collection, bribed rigged and vote bought courtesy of Thaksin...

Edited May 3, 2014 by MaxLee

[diehard60]

Well it looks like thailand will be going back in years to the year 2010 when there was an APPOINTED PM instead of elected.

[pmugghc]

Nothing original here. It just puts Suthep plan on paper.

It is a little like the 2007 referendum. If the people don't vote for the reforms, then what happens next?

So, it is not a democratic solution, but once again, something that will be delivered as a fait accompli. They have made a pigs ear of this.

It is now the case that only a committee.is allowed to modify the constitution. The parliament can't do it but a committee can. What an unholy mess. Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor.

Did you miss the part of a referendum? The Constitution Court ruled that's the way to amend the constitution.

[MaxLee]

Well it looks like thailand will be going back in years to the year 2010 when there was an APPOINTED PM instead of elected.

Wrong Thailand is going way further back into autocracy middle age rule of unquestionable authority...

[Just1Voice]

If this is the best an Oxford education can offer, I'm glad I went to Purdue.

[NongKhaiKid]

' i don't know how to spell lose " " my little sister doesn't know how to spell and doesn't do anything without instruction from me ".

RESIGN ? ?

[mikemac]

He explained that, under his proposed roadmap, the reform process would take 18 months after which an election will be staged within 150-180 days.

The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup.

Interesting he's threatening possible bloodshed and a coup as a veiled threat. When he met with General Tanasak, he then spun that as Tanasak supporting him. So now he's trying to leverage that to try to make you think he can call a military coup if you refuse.

But they've tried repeatedly to get the military to come in and back their coup as early as last December, and thrown countless hand-grenades at their own protestors to give the army cover to "protect" them. Dressed up as police to try to convince the army the police are killing them.

I think Tanasak needs to repeat his no coup remarks to make it clear that Abhisit hasn't convinced him to have a coup.

That will stop Abhisit trying to leverage threats of military massacres as a way to grab power.

I find it interesting that you would read -

"The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup."

and then say -

"Interesting he's threatening possible bloodshed and a coup as a veiled threat."

You can accuse him of a lot of things but being a braindead, moron, redshirt terrorist is not one of them.

Why don't you stop padding your boring posts with "mistruths" and trim them back a bit ?

[rabas]

Abhisit has waste the time of many people. His plan is unconstitutional. His plan is so close to Suthep plan of an unelected government. You want reforms it must be reforms from the people not from a few selected. The people have a right to vote for the government and the reforms they want. Not accept what the elite want it to be. Abhisit better you boycott the elections. Elections first then reforms and the people vote for the reforms then a new election. Nothing else is acceptable.

Reforms first, then elections. Nothing else is acceptable.

Election first, then Reforms. Nothing else is acceptable

Yes, lets fly the plane first and fix it later. Good idea.

[michaelscottfan]

I'm guessing Mark had a lot of help from mommy and daddy in getting him into Oxford, he doesn't seem all that bright.

[Fat Haggis]

Yes fly the plane and when it breaks you make improvements this is how the Wright brothers finally got off the ground!!!

You design the plane and test it and keep testing all the things that break and then you reinvent these parts and make them better. You are familiar with prototypes and final production models?

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

[Thaddeus]

Why?

Throwing Suthep a bone to get him off the streets is not a bad Idea.

And point 4 covers any unrealistic ideas he could come up with and slip through.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

Him and Suthep have had seven* months and all they've agreed about their plan is that they'll get together and make a plan.... mind-boggling incompetence.

As to point 4, they will hold a referrendum the same way they hold elections! i.e. not at all.

Can I borrow your crystal ball when you have finished with it.

[Lite Beer]

PDRC rejects Abhisit’ reform proposals

BANGKOK: -- The People's Democratic Reform Committee has rejected the reform proposals of Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva saying it was just a proposal of the politician.

Instead the anti government protesters would continue to push forward its own campaign for a “people’s government and council”.

PDRC spokesperson Akanat Promphan said the proposals of Mr Abhisit which includes a two-year break from politics, was merely a politician’s proposals.

He said Mr Abhisit had not contacted the group to discuss his ideas for a solution to the national political impasse.

The PDRC would go ahead with its new campaign starting on Monday and culminating in a major rally on May 14 to force the ouster of the caretaker government, he said.

Abhisit’s proposal calls for the Yingluck Shinawatra administration to step aside and let an interim government pave the way for electoral and other reforms ahead of a new election. The interim administration would be appointed by the Senate.

Under the final push the PDRC leader Suthep Thaugsuban had announced to seize power in the name of “the people” and propose the name of a reform prime minister to His Majesty the King and countersign the appointment.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pdrc-rejects-abhisit-reform-proposals/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=pdrc-rejects-abhisit-reform-proposals

-- Thai PBS 2014-05-03

[Tatsujin]

He explained that, under his proposed roadmap, the reform process would take 18 months after which an election will be staged within 150-180 days.

The Democrat leader said that his proposed roadmap, if accepted by all the stakeholders, especially the government and the PDRC, would prevent possible bloodshed and a coup.

Interesting he's threatening possible bloodshed and a coup as a veiled threat. When he met with General Tanasak, he then spun that as Tanasak supporting him. So now he's trying to leverage that to try to make you think he can call a military coup if you refuse.

But they've tried repeatedly to get the military to come in and back their coup as early as last December, and thrown countless hand-grenades at their own protestors to give the army cover to "protect" them. Dressed up as police to try to convince the army the police are killing them.

I think Tanasak needs to repeat his no coup remarks to make it clear that Abhisit hasn't convinced him to have a coup.

That will stop Abhisit trying to leverage threats of military massacres as a way to grab power.

How the hell did you get from "possible bloodshed" to "coup"???? It's far more likely he was referring to the upcoming PDRC/UDD rallies which I am sure will have conflict.

[Estrada]

An appointed interim administration? No thanks. Doesn't matter if Yingluck agrees or not. It's not up to Abhisit or Yingluck to decide -- it's up to the electorate.

Also, there seem to be a lot of constitutional problems with his proposal. How would Yingluck's accpetance make it legal?

It wouldn't, he wants her to resign so he can do a section 180 and remove the interim government. The so called "create a power vacuum" demand from Suthep.

Section 180. Ministers vacate office en masse upon:

(1) the termination of ministership of the Prime Minister under section 182;

The Senate is half appointed and in power. The appointment committee for the senate is controlled by their man. Giving them a rigged Senate.

And the Independent agencies are chosen by this rigged senate.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

So without a government in power, who would appoint an interim PM? The only people around are the Senate, and now they control the Senate leader Abhisit says Senate Leader will choose (based on no legal basis at all). i.e. their man chooses the PM with a fake veneer of independence.

It's clear when he says that after she's resigned and they have power, only then will they discuss what reforms to do. The big thing that power gives them is control of the military. The problem with this coup, is the generals just don't want to go on a kill spree like 2010. So they've been reluctant all along. With Prayuth being the man on the fence. Abhisit/Suthep backer lost influence over the military.

The independent agencies are afraid of removing a government of the people on the excuse of "they moved a civil servant", or "they voted to make the senate elected" etc. Without the military to protect them, they are afraid their lies will land them in jail or worse.

So Abhisit wants control of the military, and that re-establishes control of the independent agencies, and have enough fire power to support a judicial coup. He will have to rig the Parliament and Government to regain power in any future elected government, that will inevitably lead to large scale protests, and in turn he needs to be able to do a military crackdown.

I'm mentioned this before, a coup of a minority over a majority requires the minority have enough weapons to cover the kill ratio. So a coup of 10k people can overpower a population of 100k, but only if they have 10 times or greater the killing power. That needs a well armed army, with willing soldiers and in turn that needs him to grab power and control of that army.

While the elected half of the Senate were out for election, (leaving only the unelected half), they impeached the Senate Leader. Who had the temerity to vote for a fully elected Senate! So that gave them control of the Senate Leadership.

Now that is the part that really hurts, as he was a known Shinawatra lackey, isn't it.

I met Nikom at a very large party of Democrat MPs, former Democrat MPs including Suthep, and Senators, 3 weeks before he took office. The fact that he spent most of his time with the Democrat Party led BMA, I always consider him to be a Democrat Party lackey not a Thaksin go for.

Secondly he told me 3 weeks before the Senate was to vote for a new leader, that he was the new Senate Leader, in other words it was a rigged vote. Aphiset's idea that the Senate can appoint a neutral PM is therefore a joke since the vote will also be rigged.

Edited May 3, 2014 by Estrada

[Tatsujin]

Pathetic. If that's your best, Mr Abhisit, it's time to pass the baton on to someone who can make a meaningful, worthwhile contribution. Woeful 'plan'. A joke.

I await with baited breath for your own sensible suggestions as to how to resolve all of this.

And please, let's assume the word "election" isn't your only or first answer to any and all problems.

[See the bears]

Under the final push the PDRC leader Suthep Thaugsuban had announced to seize power in the name of “the people” and propose the name of a reform prime minister to His Majesty the King and countersign the appointment.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pdrc-rejects-abhisit-reform-proposals/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=pdrc-rejects-abhisit-reform-proposals

King, country, religion & Suthep.

[SICHONSTEVE]

A more acceptable version of Suthep's demands.

Elections can be within 4.5 to 5 months, which is a lot less than 18 months.

Yingluck knows she is gone anyway, so maybe a little dignity can be preserved if she jumps first.

Half the cabinet are also earmarked to be chopped (if not the lot) and they know it... So same as above really.

If Sutheo accepts all this and agrees to end the PDRC protests and can manage to persuade Buddha Isara to do the same.

This will really put the onus on YL.

Let's hope there is lots of positive feedback from all the other sectors (military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

We all know the alternative...... just need to cast your minds back to Feb.

Nice one Abhisit.

Abhisit must lead the way as he is the only one with the know how of how to do it!!!

Do what he says Yingluck or take the blame for the (further) ruination of the country.

[Thaddeus]

Why?

Throwing Suthep a bone to get him off the streets is not a bad Idea.

And point 4 covers any unrealistic ideas he could come up with and slip through.

3) The National Reform Network and the People's Democratic Reform Committee must draft a master plan of reforms within 30 days.

Him and Suthep have had seven* months and all they've agreed about their plan is that they'll get together and make a plan.... mind-boggling incompetence.

As to point 4, they will hold a referrendum the same way they hold elections! i.e. not at all.

Can I borrow your crystal ball when you have finished with it.

PDRC rejects Abhisit’ reform proposals

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pdrc-rejects-abhisit-reform-proposals/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=pdrc-rejects-abhisit-reform-proposals

-- Thai PBS 2014-05-03

Don't bother, it's broken.

[Piichai]

Yes fly the plane and when it breaks you make improvements this is how the Wright brothers finally got off the ground!!!

You design the plane and test it and keep testing all the things that break and then you reinvent these parts and make them better. You are familiar with prototypes and final production models?

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

They had an election a couple years ago, and just look at the mess PTP made. It's now time to, as you say, reinvent those parts and make them better.

[Just1Voice]

Suthep states that HE will seize power, then HE will appoint a new PM to be endorsed by the king, then HE will counter sign it. So, technically he is placing himself in the same power seat as the King by his "counter sign" statement. Clearly a case of LM if you ask me.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Pathetic. If that's your best, Mr Abhisit, it's time to pass the baton on to someone who can make a meaningful, worthwhile contribution. Woeful 'plan'. A joke.

I await with baited breath for your own sensible suggestions as to how to resolve all of this.

And please, let's assume the word "election" isn't your only or first answer to any and all problems.

Lets have an election.

Because there is nothing to fix, political division is what democracy is. If you had no political division, then there would be no choice, no opposing views to choose from and no options. The idea that we all live in a harmony where we skip and dance and play and all think alike, is utter rubbish fantasyland thinking.

Abhisit and Suthep cannot agree on the way to choose a PM. Abhisit says he wants the Senate Leader to pick a PM, Suthep says he wants Suthep to pick a PM. It's normal for people to disagree. Even these two sock puppets for the general cannot agree!

And from your words you seem to refuse to accept that an election is the cure. If you had an infection, would you be saying "and please don't tell me antibiotics is your only fix" and then refuse the medicine?

Edited May 3, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[HappyinNE]

A compromise or a capitulation? Sounds like the latter.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Yes fly the plane and when it breaks you make improvements this is how the Wright brothers finally got off the ground!!!

You design the plane and test it and keep testing all the things that break and then you reinvent these parts and make them better. You are familiar with prototypes and final production models?

You have to break a few eggs to make an omelette.

They had an election a couple years ago, and just look at the mess PTP made. It's now time to, as you say, reinvent those parts and make them better.

By mess, you mean all time stock-market peak, booming economy, nearly had the Senate reformed to be elected and democratic again, nearly had the high speed trains in progress that have been promised by the Democrats, very high growth rate and a massive influx of investment...

Good luck with that election and your policies. Whatever they may be.

[Scamper]

It's been quite a day. First of all, Abhisit's ten-point plan is a masterful set of eminently do-able proposals. It seeks to find a middle ground. It does not demand that the Shinawatra family leave politics. Yingluck herself could stand in an election - which if this plan were enacted - could take place by November. The reforms would be put to a national referendum prior to that, and enacted along the way, interspersed with another election after a year where further reforms would be an obligated part of the mandate. Abhisit seems to have taken great care to leave much room to the PDRC to contribute to the reform process, as they have actively held public seminars to that effect. Because of that, it is an immense pity - to say the least - that the PDRC has just turned down these proposals. It must be reiterated that Abhisit's plan is moderate enough to accommodate all of the people in this drama. Abhisit is right in acknowledging that no one side can be fully satisfied. This is why the PDRC's response is especially distressing. And also unwise. But that's how things stand, and we can't wish for a more conciliatory situation if it simply is not there. This is the reality as it stands. Even without the PDRC's response, the Pheu Thai and UDD response has been nothing short of vitriolic. Abhisit has tried - very earnestly - to forge a solution. But he cannot enact this alone. And the reality of it is that as strong a division as there is between the Democratic party and the PDRC - and that has become even clearer today - the two share too much of the same populous support.

This was a situation for cooler heads. Unfortunately,as it happened, there was only one cool head. And it's not enough. It is hard now not to recognize a very real crisis in the offing. There are simply too many people involved who are not prepared to give an inch.

[h90]

A more acceptable version of Suthep's demands.

Elections can be within 4.5 to 5 months, which is a lot less than 18 months.

Yingluck knows she is gone anyway, so maybe a little dignity can be preserved if she jumps first.

Half the cabinet are also earmarked to be chopped (if not the lot) and they know it... So same as above really.

If Sutheo accepts all this and agrees to end the PDRC protests and can manage to persuade Buddha Isara to do the same.

This will really put the onus on YL.

Let's hope there is lots of positive feedback from all the other sectors (military, other parties and PDRC/PCAD, EC).

We all know the alternative...... just need to cast your minds back to Feb.

Nice one Abhisit.

Abhisit must lead the way as he is the only one with the know how of how to do it!!!

Do what he says Yingluck or take the blame for the (further) ruination of the country.

I doubt she cares about the country.....if only the family stays in power and close to the money.

[Thailand]

PDRC have already said they don't get enough out of Abhisits proposal so it's back to the "peoples council" appointed by Suthep.

Or,maybe this may just push Mark and his UnDems to actually take part in the upcoming election!

Definite split now between the two.

[Thai at Heart]

Nothing original here. It just puts Suthep plan on paper.

It is a little like the 2007 referendum. If the people don't vote for the reforms, then what happens next?

So, it is not a democratic solution, but once again, something that will be delivered as a fait accompli. They have made a pigs ear of this.

It is now the case that only a committee.is allowed to modify the constitution. The parliament can't do it but a committee can. What an unholy mess. Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor.

"Thailand democracy is like some still born abomination on the floor."

For many years already. Actually this is one of the reasons why demanding that the opposition or even the government behaves as if Thailand had a democracy as in some countries in the Western World is so inherently hilareous and sad as well.

I didn't see Abhisit jumping around asking for reform when he was jerry manderd into power.

No one acts for the country. Everyone acts for themselves short term. I don't expect too many politicians to do so, but the leaders should have some principles. Abhisit apparently is just discovering his.

I means after being in bed with Newin and Suthep for 10 years, I guess you get tired of being everyone's b***h. He's too late to the party.

[BlueNoseCodger]

It's been quite a day. First of all, Abhisit's ten-point plan is a masterful set of eminently do-able proposals. It seeks to find a middle ground. It does not demand that the Shinawatra family leave politics. Yingluck herself could stand in an election - which if this plan were enacted - could take place by November. The reforms would be put to a national referendum prior to that, and enacted along the way, interspersed with another election after a year where further reforms would be an obligated part of the mandate. Abhisit seems to have taken great care to leave much room to the PDRC to contribute to the reform process, as they have actively held public seminars to that effect. Because of that, it is an immense pity - to say the least - that the PDRC has just turned down these proposals. It must be reiterated that Abhisit's plan is moderate enough to accommodate all of the people in this drama. Abhisit is right in acknowledging that no one side can be fully satisfied. This is why the PDRC's response is especially distressing. And also unwise. But that's how things stand, and we can't wish for a more conciliatory situation if it simply is not there. This is the reality as it stands. Even without the PDRC's response, the Pheu Thai and UDD response has been nothing short of vitriolic. Abhisit has tried - very earnestly - to forge a solution. But he cannot enact this alone. And the reality of it is that as strong a division as there is between the Democratic party and the PDRC - and that has become even clearer today - the two share too much of the same populous support.

This was a situation for cooler heads. Unfortunately,as it happened, there was only one cool head. And it's not enough. It is hard now not to recognize a very real crisis in the offing. There are simply too many people involved who are not prepared to give an inch.

So Abhisit can stand for election on his 'plan' and that will also be the referendum on his reform proposals that he's seeking.... (his reform plan is to make a plan to reform...!)

And since he accepts the Senate as valid way to pick a PM, he accepts that the EC running the Senate election was also valid. So he accept the EC can run this election too.

So we're basically all in agreement, he will get his referendum in the form of an election, he can have his reforms, if the public agrees to vote for him (which is the same as if they voted for his referendum), and he accepts that elections are valid, because he accepts the Senate elected part as valid.

So yes, emminently doable, in fact its already in progress and will be done July 20th. With or without him.

This will also fix the unconstitutionality and illegality and the military is already on-board for this, as is the other political parties. So terrific.

If you like we can call these elections a referendum on who shall run the country instead, if that makes you happier!

Or are you saying "no referendum before reform" now, because that will make it really difficult to do Abhisit's proposal.

Edited May 3, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[Just1Voice]

If you put all the politicians of every party (except maybe for Chewet), all the UDD leaders, all the PCRD leaders in one building, seal all the exits, then shoot in nerve gas canisters until you're sure than only God can sort them out, then you MIGHT be able to start over again with a somewhat clean slate. But I won't hold my breath for that to happen.