Sold house in UK.what to do with funds.Help

[khunPer]

»(3) Do you already have an emergency cash reserve?«

»3) Very small amount, around 7000 GBP« [some 350,000 baht]

»(5) Do you have medical insurance which will continue for the rest of your life? (If not, provision needs to be made for unexpected, large expense.)«

»5) None, though I understand that Surin hospital is providing an insurance for expats.«

I will like to add a comment to this.

As AyG says above, Sheryl, who is the health expert on TV, recommend some 3 million baht if you are of age and self-insured. It is (often) a problem to open a health insurance when you exceed 65 or 70 years of age, and even you have one that may begin to become quite expensive already when passing 60 years of age.

There has been some treads about government long-stay-farang-insurance for public hospitals only, but that seemed to be some misunderstanding (wrong formulation from the government) and only intended to cover migrant workers from Burma, Cambodia and Laos. A few farangs have obtained a one-year health card, but most have been rejected. The debate more-or-less stopped with the political unrest, however something may come up next year…?

The question is about self-insurance.

Public hospitals seem to be fairly Okay and affordable – personally I have only good experience, but never been ill and used one myself – however there may be situations where you need or prefers a private clinic or hospital, for a (much) higher fee.

Depending on individual health situation, I think not less than 500k are the minimum for senior/retired self-insurance and other emergencies – always good to have some money available in a “rainy day account” for that.

I have done mine with an ATM account, so my family – meaning GF/wife and Thai relatives – has access to some instant cash in case of my emergency. Yes, one may consider the horror-story-risk, but that’s up against the benefits in case of something happens; which can be an accident with both me and spouse, so someone else need to act on our behalf. I always keep a reasonable amount in that account; can be 300k, 400k or more depending on the individual’s financial situation. I need instant emergency cash in Thailand, not money abroad that need to be transferred with my personal approval. On top a PA (Personal Accident) insurance, which can be obtained a high age – Bangkok Bank for example has a senior PA valid for people up to 100 years of age, and others may offer something similar – just to have some medical coverage card in my pocket in case of accident; not much PA-coverage on medical in Thailand, but you can find 20k to 60k or more. When traveling abroad I just but a travel insurance, which is very affordable.

Furthermore I have a fixed 12-month shared (with spouse) bank deposit with an additional lump sum. The fixed deposit gives some interest to stand inflation, and interest loss in case of emergency withdrawal is not a question here. That’s back up for more scheduled health purposes, where you may have some days to come up with money. The deposit can be any amount between the instant cash and up to the desired maximum, between 500k or Sheryl’s recommendation for 3 million. May be wise to annually check if the amount is reasonable; or make a regular saving plan to top up, just like paying a small ongoing health insurance fee.

When you have family in Thailand you wish to care for, I also find a shared account or other access to cash handy in case of death – sorting out Will and heritage can take some time.

More generally – when I moved to Thailand I had budgeted an insurance amount for Bupa Platinum. However, with a good health record – I am lucky having never been ill or hospitalized – I decided for the second best and saved up the difference in a fixed bank account; as something will not be covered by insurance, so I need some extra money anyway. When I passed 60 years insurance raised and I stepped down a level and saved up more. As the rate will rise again after 65, I finally decided to rather move something like 10-years insurance fees into a Thai bank than “loosing” the money on an insurance I have never used; I became self-insured. I pay a small monthly fee into my “rainy day” saving account to keep it going up. I consider an additional PA insurance worth having, just in case, and the fee is nominal.

Even one cannot afford anything like the amounts mentioned here – I know some retired live on a very small budget – I think it is wise always to save up something in case of emergency; even a tiny monthly amount saved may become a handsome sum in an emergency situation.

[phusingpete]

(1) How much UK income do you expect to receive? (Necessary for consideration of effects of UK income tax.)

(2) Do you expect to be liable to UK inheritance tax? (It might be prudent to mitigate IHT.)

(3) Do you already have an emergency cash reserve?

(4) Will you have any ongoing expenses in Sterling? If so, how much?

(5) Do you have medical insurance which will continue for the rest of your life? (If not, provision needs to be made for unexpected, large expense.)

(6) Have you made a will? (Without one any inheritance objectives could be thwarted.)

Hi , to answer your questions,

1) I have UK pensions which exceed the personal allowance and was really thinking of taking my cash out of UK to avoid further taxation. However it seems that I may be able to invest tn the UK and avoid tax, according to some posts. Although I may have to dip into a slush fund on occassion mainly for my daughters education,we should manage quite well on my pensions. My main aim is to provide some security for my wife and child.

As of now I have no idea what sort of income I should expect to achieve for them. The widows pension at this time is about 4500 GBP, not a lot.

2) No

3) Very small amount, around 7000 GBP

4) Only tax on pensions

5) None, though I understand that Surin hospital is providing an insurance for expats.

6) I have a will in England covering my assets there, not as yet in Thailand as I only have the car and bank account of course this may have to change.

My initial thoughts:

(1) Definitely take your cash out of the UK to take any income out of the hands of the tax man. You should also look into transferring your existing pensions to a QROPS. Then you wouldn't have to pay tax on your pension income in the UK. (Managed right, you also wouldn't have to pay tax in Thailand.) Transfer usually works out as worth it if the value of the pension pot is greater than GBP 100,000.

(2) No IHT concerns. That simplifies things.

(3) GBP 7,000 for emergencies doesn't seem like enough. I'll return to this under (5).

(4) No requirement to generate GBP income.

(5) I believe that hospitals providing insurance for farangs was an administrative mistake, and that it no longer happens. At your age it's probably impossible (or cost-prohibitive) to get medical insurance now, so you'll have to put aside money for any medical emergency. In another topic Sheryl suggested that if self-insuring one should have THB 3,000,000 available. (You may want to check that figure, it's from memory.) That's about GBP 55,000. So you'll need to have that amount, plus a few months living expenses readily available. I don't know what your lifestyle will be like in Thailand, but I would have thought an extra GBP 20,000 might be about right.

(6) I presume that your will is in line with your intention of half your estate going to your wife and half to your daughter should you die before your daughter reaches university age. If not, you probably should make a new will. Given that it's a little complex (if your daughter has already had the university money when you die, you may want her to receive less than 50%) I'd recommend using a solicitor, rather than trying to do it yourself.

Would you be concerned about your daughter's ability (with help from her mother) to manage her inheritance? If so, you should discuss the possibilities with a solicitor and make suitable provision in your will. (It could be specified, for example, that she can only inherit once she reaches 18.)

So, for actual investments, I'd suggest putting THB 4,100,000 into long term (2/3/4 year) fixed deposits here. That's your emergency/medical emergency money. You'll lose some interest if you have to withdraw the money prematurely, but in an emergency you won't be too bothered about that. You might want to split that across a number of banks since the depositor protection limit is going to be lowered to THB 1,000,000 in a few years' time.

Put your slush fund amount into shorter term deposits (3-12 months). If you shop around you can get better interest rates with special offers. Bangkok Bank, for example, sometimes has 4 and 11 month deposits available with a 200,000 Baht minimum deposit. When you need to dip into your slush fund you could find that a deposit is about to mature. And if not, the actual amount of interest you'll lose by withdrawing early is negligible.

As for the remaining cash, invest it within a wrap account - preferably one that allows you to hold both unit trusts and investment trusts/ETFs.

Choosing appropriate investments that are suitably conservative and don't lead to foreign exchange risk against the Baht is pretty much impossible. Therefore it is probably best to choose investments that are exposed to a basket of currencies.

I'd suggest a (very traditional) 60:40 split between equities and fixed interest. (Given your age a higher proportion of bonds would be conventional wisdom. However, you're really investing for your family's future, rather than your own.)

Given that you'll already have 32% of your money in cash, I'd put the remaining 8% (GBP 19,000) into a bond fund. I'd suggest the iShares Global AAA-AA Government Bond ETF. It gives broad exposure to top quality government bonds across the globe.

(If you want to take a bit more risk, then I like iShares J.P. Morgan $ Emerging Markets Bond ETF.)

As for the equity portion, I'd split it two ways. Some (perhaps 10%, GBP 23,500) I'd put in an investment which gives direct exposure to the Thai stock market. Aberdeen New Thai investment trust has an excellent record in this area. (Just one caveat, there's some speculation at the moment that the trust may be wound up.) The rest I'd allocate between products that are managed conservatively to maintain value and have multicurrency exposure which is not fully hedged back to Sterling. Possibilities here that I like include:

- CF Ruffer European (fund)

- Personal Assets Trust (investment trust)

- Troy Trojan (fund)

- Newton Real Return (fund)

(Some people would advocate absolute return funds such as Standard Life Global Absolute Return here. Personally I don't like absolute return funds, but many people do.)

If you don't mind a bit more exposure to the UK I also like:

- Consistent Practical (investment trust)

- Ruffer Investment Company (investment trust)

- Ruffer Total Return (fund)

This selection of investments won't produce spectacular returns, but it also shouldn't produce dramatic falls in value. All being well it should have grown nicely in value by the time it comes to selling investments to fund your daughter's education.

Thanks for your advice, I clearly have a lot to go through. Re the Thai health insurance, I have two friends in Surin who have this insurance and are actively using it. Cost 2800 baht per annum. I have managed to self fund from my income up to now, had a serious operation and have continuing treatment for months ahead which seems within my meagre means. Fingers crossed.. Though I attend a public hospital which I am very satisfied with.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

There seem to be people giving advice that have an element of self interest.

Beware the sharks circling.

Transfer of UK pension offshore is usually a disaster, for the pensioner, a winner for the guy that bagged the commission.

qrops, sipps, mostly recommended by fools who never realise they have been cheated and crooks preying on uk pensioners.

the chances of your thai partner or kid being to deal with mutual funds, even less than you.

keep it simple, thai property or thai bank accounts for them.

they will never see anything you place outside thailand.

Edited May 7, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[rayongchelsea]

There seem to be people giving advice that have an element of self interest.

Beware the sharks circling.

Transfer of UK pension offshore is usually a disaster, for the pensioner, a winner for the guy that bagged the commission.

qrops, sipps, mostly recommended by fools who never realise they have been cheated and crooks preying on uk pensioners.

the chances of your thai partner or kid being to deal with mutual funds, even less than you.

keep it simple, thai property or thai bank accounts for them.

they will never see anything you place outside thailand.

Totally agree. It must be accessible and easily understood by your partner.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[KittenKong]

(1)You should also look into transferring your existing pensions to a QROPS. Then you wouldn't have to pay tax on your pension income in the UK. (Managed right, you also wouldn't have to pay tax in Thailand.) Transfer usually works out as worth it if the value of the pension pot is greater than GBP 100,000.

I would be very wary of doing this. So many pitfalls.

[fletchsmile]

(1) How much UK income do you expect to receive? (Necessary for consideration of effects of UK income tax.)

(2) Do you expect to be liable to UK inheritance tax? (It might be prudent to mitigate IHT.)

(3) Do you already have an emergency cash reserve?

(4) Will you have any ongoing expenses in Sterling? If so, how much?

(5) Do you have medical insurance which will continue for the rest of your life? (If not, provision needs to be made for unexpected, large expense.)

(6) Have you made a will? (Without one any inheritance objectives could be thwarted.)

Hi , to answer your questions,

1) I have UK pensions which exceed the personal allowance and was really thinking of taking my cash out of UK to avoid further taxation. However it seems that I may be able to invest tn the UK and avoid tax, according to some posts. Although I may have to dip into a slush fund on occassion mainly for my daughters education,we should manage quite well on my pensions. My main aim is to provide some security for my wife and child.

As of now I have no idea what sort of income I should expect to achieve for them. The widows pension at this time is about 4500 GBP, not a lot.

2) No

3) Very small amount, around 7000 GBP

4) Only tax on pensions

5) None, though I understand that Surin hospital is providing an insurance for expats.

6) I have a will in England covering my assets there, not as yet in Thailand as I only have the car and bank account of course this may have to change.

My initial thoughts:

(1) Definitely take your cash out of the UK to take any income out of the hands of the tax man. You should also look into transferring your existing pensions to a QROPS. Then you wouldn't have to pay tax on your pension income in the UK. (Managed right, you also wouldn't have to pay tax in Thailand.) Transfer usually works out as worth it if the value of the pension pot is greater than GBP 100,000.

(2) No IHT concerns. That simplifies things.

(3) GBP 7,000 for emergencies doesn't seem like enough. I'll return to this under (5).

(4) No requirement to generate GBP income.

(5) I believe that hospitals providing insurance for farangs was an administrative mistake, and that it no longer happens. At your age it's probably impossible (or cost-prohibitive) to get medical insurance now, so you'll have to put aside money for any medical emergency. In another topic Sheryl suggested that if self-insuring one should have THB 3,000,000 available. (You may want to check that figure, it's from memory.) That's about GBP 55,000. So you'll need to have that amount, plus a few months living expenses readily available. I don't know what your lifestyle will be like in Thailand, but I would have thought an extra GBP 20,000 might be about right.

(6) I presume that your will is in line with your intention of half your estate going to your wife and half to your daughter should you die before your daughter reaches university age. If not, you probably should make a new will. Given that it's a little complex (if your daughter has already had the university money when you die, you may want her to receive less than 50%) I'd recommend using a solicitor, rather than trying to do it yourself.

Would you be concerned about your daughter's ability (with help from her mother) to manage her inheritance? If so, you should discuss the possibilities with a solicitor and make suitable provision in your will. (It could be specified, for example, that she can only inherit once she reaches 18.)

So, for actual investments, I'd suggest putting THB 4,100,000 into long term (2/3/4 year) fixed deposits here. That's your emergency/medical emergency money. You'll lose some interest if you have to withdraw the money prematurely, but in an emergency you won't be too bothered about that. You might want to split that across a number of banks since the depositor protection limit is going to be lowered to THB 1,000,000 in a few years' time.

Put your slush fund amount into shorter term deposits (3-12 months). If you shop around you can get better interest rates with special offers. Bangkok Bank, for example, sometimes has 4 and 11 month deposits available with a 200,000 Baht minimum deposit. When you need to dip into your slush fund you could find that a deposit is about to mature. And if not, the actual amount of interest you'll lose by withdrawing early is negligible.

As for the remaining cash, invest it within a wrap account - preferably one that allows you to hold both unit trusts and investment trusts/ETFs.

Choosing appropriate investments that are suitably conservative and don't lead to foreign exchange risk against the Baht is pretty much impossible. Therefore it is probably best to choose investments that are exposed to a basket of currencies.

I'd suggest a (very traditional) 60:40 split between equities and fixed interest. (Given your age a higher proportion of bonds would be conventional wisdom. However, you're really investing for your family's future, rather than your own.)

Given that you'll already have 32% of your money in cash, I'd put the remaining 8% (GBP 19,000) into a bond fund. I'd suggest the iShares Global AAA-AA Government Bond ETF. It gives broad exposure to top quality government bonds across the globe.

(If you want to take a bit more risk, then I like iShares J.P. Morgan $ Emerging Markets Bond ETF.)

As for the equity portion, I'd split it two ways. Some (perhaps 10%, GBP 23,500) I'd put in an investment which gives direct exposure to the Thai stock market. Aberdeen New Thai investment trust has an excellent record in this area. (Just one caveat, there's some speculation at the moment that the trust may be wound up.) The rest I'd allocate between products that are managed conservatively to maintain value and have multicurrency exposure which is not fully hedged back to Sterling. Possibilities here that I like include:

- CF Ruffer European (fund)

- Personal Assets Trust (investment trust)

- Troy Trojan (fund)

- Newton Real Return (fund)

(Some people would advocate absolute return funds such as Standard Life Global Absolute Return here. Personally I don't like absolute return funds, but many people do.)

If you don't mind a bit more exposure to the UK I also like:

- Consistent Practical (investment trust)

- Ruffer Investment Company (investment trust)

- Ruffer Total Return (fund)

This selection of investments won't produce spectacular returns, but it also shouldn't produce dramatic falls in value. All being well it should have grown nicely in value by the time it comes to selling investments to fund your daughter's education.

Thanks for your advice, I clearly have a lot to go through. Re the Thai health insurance, I have two friends in Surin who have this insurance and are actively using it. Cost 2800 baht per annum. I have managed to self fund from my income up to now, had a serious operation and have continuing treatment for months ahead which seems within my meagre means. Fingers crossed.. Though I attend a public hospital which I am very satisfied with.

On the QROPs I would be very very careful as in some of the posts before mine. There are a lot of pitfalls and dangers with this product. Please be aware of the risks and rewards of QROPs before going anywhere near. It may suit some people but many have been mis-sold and led to problems.

I would also make the following points:

1. In most cases it can be difficult to transfer a pension that is currently receiving payments/ being drawn down. There are some exceptions though but rare. So this may not be relevant to you anyway

2. If you are not actually receiving payments: New pension legislation in the UK coming out this year and next may allow you to take your pension anyway as a lump sum. This route could be much safer for you and much cheaper than a QROPs.

3. As mentioned in the cases in may make sense it is usually for transfers of over GBP 100,000, i.e value of the fund is over 100,000 not the income from it. On the other hand you say you have no inheritance (IHT) tax concerns. These two are inconsistent if you have GBP 235,000 of assets for your house. The implications:

i) If your pension pot is worth under GBP 100,000 it probably won't be worth even looking at QROPs

ii ) If your pension pot is worth over GBP 100,000 and QROPs may possibly be relevant, this will mean IHT could also be relevant. The threshold that IHT kicks in is assets above 325,000. so if above 100,000 added to your 235,000 = 335,000 and potentially above the threshold. (There is however, a spouse allowance too)

Personally I'd say:

4. stay away from QROPs and see what the UK govt is bringning in - could be much simpler, safer and cheaper for you. If you are actually receiving money from your pension it may not be possible anyway

5. You may want to revisit the issue of inheritance tax and whether you think it applies

BTW: I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the integrity of AyG, and I am in no way implying he has any self interest here, as some posts imply that other posters have a self interest.

I don't know AyG at all. I do know he makes a lot of intelligent posts one here and have never seen anything untoward or resembling self interest in his posts.

Just saying be very careful on QROPs it can be a minefield for some

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 7, 2014 by fletchsmile

[AyG]

ii ) If your pension pot is worth over GBP 100,000 and QROPs may possibly be relevant, this will mean IHT could also be relevant. The threshold that IHT kicks in is assets above 325,000. so if above 100,000 added to your 235,000 = 335,000 and potentially above the threshold. (There is however, a spouse allowance too)

BTW: I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the integrity of AyG, and I am in no way implying he has any self interest here, as some posts imply that other posters have a self interest.

I don't know AyG at all. I do know he makes a lot of intelligent posts one here and have never seen anything untoward or resembling self interest in his posts.

Thanks for the kind words, Fletch. I have no agenda and certainly no financial interest in whatever people decide to do. I just share my thoughts based upon a few decades in the financial world (mostly wholesale not retail), and my own investment experiences and opinions which continue to evolve.

The IHT issue was one that bothered me when writing my previous post. There's some suggestion that a pension pot will now be considered as part of the estate because it could be commuted to cash. I wrote something about this, then deleted it from my reply. I really don't know the answer on this, and all I can say is "watch this space". (Broadly speaking, I think the government's reforms are too liberal. I suspect that what is actually enacted may be rather more conservative.)

[phusingpete]

ii ) If your pension pot is worth over GBP 100,000 and QROPs may possibly be relevant, this will mean IHT could also be relevant. The threshold that IHT kicks in is assets above 325,000. so if above 100,000 added to your 235,000 = 335,000 and potentially above the threshold. (There is however, a spouse allowance too)

BTW: I have no reason whatsoever to doubt the integrity of AyG, and I am in no way implying he has any self interest here, as some posts imply that other posters have a self interest.

I don't know AyG at all. I do know he makes a lot of intelligent posts one here and have never seen anything untoward or resembling self interest in his posts.

Thanks for the kind words, Fletch. I have no agenda and certainly no financial interest in whatever people decide to do. I just share my thoughts based upon a few decades in the financial world (mostly wholesale not retail), and my own investment experiences and opinions which continue to evolve.

The IHT issue was one that bothered me when writing my previous post. There's some suggestion that a pension pot will now be considered as part of the estate because it could be commuted to cash. I wrote something about this, then deleted it from my reply. I really don't know the answer on this, and all I can say is "watch this space". (Broadly speaking, I think the government's reforms are too liberal. I suspect that what is actually enacted may be rather more conservative.)

My pensions are all Government based, two of them indexed linked. I do not believe any pot exists so QROPs is probably not an issue. Regarding IHT I did not consider these pensions applicable in this context as they stop on my death, except for a small widows pension. Are they??

[AyG]

My pensions are all Government based, two of them indexed linked. I do not believe any pot exists so QROPs is probably not an issue. Regarding IHT I did not consider these pensions applicable in this context as they stop on my death, except for a small widows pension. Are they??

Pretty much all pensions (apart from State pensions) have an associated value (what I informally referred to as the "pot"), and can be transferred to another pension provider, including QROPS. It doesn't matter if the employer was a government body or not. You, or your financial adviser, just writes to ask for a transfer value. As a rough rule of thumb, if you're close to retirement, the value will be about 20 times the expected pension.

I would say, though, that an index-linked pension is a valuable beast, and IFAs would be most reluctant to recommend transferring it offshore. They may be right about that. However, if the scheme's investments are managed in Sterling, that's not ideal for an expat whose expenditure is in Baht. Too much exchange rate risk. There may be better ways to manage the exchange rate risk than to transfer the pension offshore and choose more appropriate investments. (If one were determined to do this, as I was, you can tell your IFA that you're an "insistent client" and they will do what is necessary, even if it's against their professional advice.)

As for how pension pots are going to be tax upon death in the future is unclear, both for UK-based pensions and QROPS. We just have to wait until the relevant legislation is passed by parliament, and even then may have to wait for further clarification.

What is clear, however, is that if one cashes in one's entire pension pot, as one will be entitled to do according to the Chancellor's speech in the budget this year, whatever's left will potentially be subject to IHT.

[phusingpete]

My pensions are all Government based, two of them indexed linked. I do not believe any pot exists so QROPs is probably not an issue. Regarding IHT I did not consider these pensions applicable in this context as they stop on my death, except for a small widows pension. Are they??

Pretty much all pensions (apart from State pensions) have an associated value (what I informally referred to as the "pot"), and can be transferred to another pension provider, including QROPS. It doesn't matter if the employer was a government body or not. You, or your financial adviser, just writes to ask for a transfer value. As a rough rule of thumb, if you're close to retirement, the value will be about 20 times the expected pension.

I would say, though, that an index-linked pension is a valuable beast, and IFAs would be most reluctant to recommend transferring it offshore. They may be right about that. However, if the scheme's investments are managed in Sterling, that's not ideal for an expat whose expenditure is in Baht. Too much exchange rate risk. There may be better ways to manage the exchange rate risk than to transfer the pension offshore and choose more appropriate investments. (If one were determined to do this, as I was, you can tell your IFA that you're an "insistent client" and they will do what is necessary, even if it's against their professional advice.)

As for how pension pots are going to be tax upon death in the future is unclear, both for UK-based pensions and QROPS. We just have to wait until the relevant legislation is passed by parliament, and even then may have to wait for further clarification.

What is clear, however, is that if one cashes in one's entire pension pot, as one will be entitled to do according to the Chancellor's speech in the budget this year, whatever's left will potentially be subject to IHT.

What parliament is likely to do in the future is another reason I wish to take my moveable assets out of the UK. CGT in 2015 for foriegners selling property in the UK, bound to rope in British expats. Possible withdrawl of personal allowance another 2000 GBP to pay, I am sure they would love to do this, we are such an easy target.

Thanks everyone for all your contributions I will be going through this thread looking for options that suit my position, then no doubt I shall return with more questions and to get your impressions. Many thanks......Peter

[fletchsmile]

My pensions are all Government based, two of them indexed linked. I do not believe any pot exists so QROPs is probably not an issue. Regarding IHT I did not consider these pensions applicable in this context as they stop on my death, except for a small widows pension. Are they??

When talking about pensions in this context it s important to distinguish between have you started receiving benefits or not.

Given you are 71 my assumption was you re already drawing them i.e taking benefits.

As you ve added that they are govt based and index linked as well as stopping on your death I m even more sure you re already drawing them and receiving benefits.

The implications:

1) QROPs is mainly for those that havent started drawing them (there are a few exceptions). So not relevant.

Also given given they are govt based, index linked etc. Increases the likelihood you d be better and safer staying put anyway.

So forget QROPS

2) On IHT if you are already drawing the pension and it is govt based there will most likely not be any IHT on your death.

IHT tends to be more relevant for private schemes which are defined contribution and build up a pot. To either buy an annuity or start income drawdown.

If you die before "using" the pot (including deferring taking benefits) it may have IHT implications.

If you are in income drawdown it may be relevant for IHT.

But if you are receiving annuity income or in a private defined benefit scheme it wont count to IHT.

As you re already receiving income I think under a govt scheme it will not be something to worry about for IHT so forget it.

Stick where you are with your pensions. Dont worry about them and focus on the other stuff.

Cheers

Fletch

Sent from my GT-I9152 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 8, 2014 by fletchsmile

[AyG]

Also given given they are govt based, index linked etc. Increases the likelihood you d be better and safer staying put anyway.

2) On IHT if you are already drawing the pension and it is govt based there will most likely not be any IHT on your death.

I differ on the first point: by keeping the pension in a UK scheme you take on significant exchange rate risk. If he were staying in the UK or had significant expenditure in Sterling then I wouldn't hesitate to think "leave things as they are". However, given that the OP's future expenditure will be in Baht, then moving the pension offshore and using a more Baht-friendly asset allocation might be an appropriate solution. However, as you say, if he's already in draw down, that's unlikely to be an option.

With IHT for pensions, we know that changes are probably coming thanks to the 2014 Budget. However, we don't know what they are. At this stage I wouldn't go as far as to say "there will most likely not be any IHT on your death." We simply don't know yet and need to monitor developments.

[medisasean]

open a shop, insurance for educate guarantee

[fletchsmile]

Also given given they are govt based, index linked etc. Increases the likelihood you d be better and safer staying put anyway.

2) On IHT if you are already drawing the pension and it is govt based there will most likely not be any IHT on your death.

I differ on the first point: by keeping the pension in a UK scheme you take on significant exchange rate risk. If he were staying in the UK or had significant expenditure in Sterling then I wouldn't hesitate to think "leave things as they are". However, given that the OP's future expenditure will be in Baht, then moving the pension offshore and using a more Baht-friendly asset allocation might be an appropriate solution. However, as you say, if he's already in draw down, that's unlikely to be an option.

With IHT for pensions, we know that changes are probably coming thanks to the 2014 Budget. However, we don't know what they are. At this stage I wouldn't go as far as to say "there will most likely not be any IHT on your death." We simply don't know yet and need to monitor developments.

Your call to differ.

I can tell you though that one you are drawing income from your pension scheme, a QROPs becomes extremely difficult. QROPS are designed mainly for people who haven't yet started to draw benefits. While working for a previous bank in Thailand I looked into these as a potential offering to expats. Including research, face to face meetings and talking to our Singapore hub specialising in wealth management and Channel Islands based offices to see how this could work in conjunction/ to complement with other new products we were looking at in Thailand. So it's an area I know quite well first hand. BTW In Thailand the call was that it wasn't worthwhile as a business investment for the bank, although other locations do do it for HNWI and Private Banking in particular.

Even for the 2014 budget changes they will not affect people who are already drawing their pension in most cases. The changes will apply to people who have not yet taken pension income, including having deferred taking it, and those in income drawdown. None of these are relevant here.

So while in theory it will be nice theory to switch a UK pension income scheme into overseas cash to mitigate FX risk, it's not going to happen for OP

OP is 71 and seems like he is already drawing his pension which is govt base, and it stops on death. On that basis it would be pretty clear neither QROPs or the new pension changes will be relevant

The following links may be of interest to some, although to OP I'd say they'd probably be wasting his time

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/what-happens-to-my-pension-when-i-die

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/the-4-most-common-retirement-questions-post-budget-2014

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/pensionflexibility.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/news.htm

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 8, 2014 by fletchsmile

[phusingpete]

Also given given they are govt based, index linked etc. Increases the likelihood you d be better and safer staying put anyway.

2) On IHT if you are already drawing the pension and it is govt based there will most likely not be any IHT on your death.

I differ on the first point: by keeping the pension in a UK scheme you take on significant exchange rate risk. If he were staying in the UK or had significant expenditure in Sterling then I wouldn't hesitate to think "leave things as they are". However, given that the OP's future expenditure will be in Baht, then moving the pension offshore and using a more Baht-friendly asset allocation might be an appropriate solution. However, as you say, if he's already in draw down, that's unlikely to be an option.

With IHT for pensions, we know that changes are probably coming thanks to the 2014 Budget. However, we don't know what they are. At this stage I wouldn't go as far as to say "there will most likely not be any IHT on your death." We simply don't know yet and need to monitor developments.

Your call to differ.

I can tell you though that one you are drawing income from your pension scheme, a QROPs becomes extremely difficult. QROPS are designed mainly for people who haven't yet started to draw benefits. While working for a previous bank in Thailand I looked into these as a potential offering to expats. Including research, face to face meetings and talking to our Singapore hub specialising in wealth management and Channel Islands based offices to see how this could work in conjunction/ to complement with other new products we were looking at in Thailand. So it's an area I know quite well first hand. BTW In Thailand the call was that it wasn't worthwhile as a business investment for the bank, although other locations do do it for HNWI and Private Banking in particular.

Even for the 2014 budget changes they will not affect people who are already drawing their pension in most cases. The changes will apply to people who have not yet taken pension income, including having deferred taking it, and those in income drawdown. None of these are relevant here.

So while in theory it will be nice theory to switch a UK pension income scheme into overseas cash to mitigate FX risk, it's not going to happen for OP

OP is 71 and seems like he is already drawing his pension which is govt base, and it stops on death. On that basis it would be pretty clear neither QROPs or the new pension changes will be relevant

The following links may be of interest to some, although to OP I'd say they'd probably be wasting his time

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/what-happens-to-my-pension-when-i-die

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/the-4-most-common-retirement-questions-post-budget-2014

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/pensionflexibility.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/news.htm

Cheers

Fletch

Hi Fletch,

I have in fact been drawing on my main pension since I was 55 years old, so I am sure you are correct that there would be little interest from a scheme to take my pension elsewhere.

[Jip99]

Also given given they are govt based, index linked etc. Increases the likelihood you d be better and safer staying put anyway.

2) On IHT if you are already drawing the pension and it is govt based there will most likely not be any IHT on your death.

I differ on the first point: by keeping the pension in a UK scheme you take on significant exchange rate risk. If he were staying in the UK or had significant expenditure in Sterling then I wouldn't hesitate to think "leave things as they are". However, given that the OP's future expenditure will be in Baht, then moving the pension offshore and using a more Baht-friendly asset allocation might be an appropriate solution. However, as you say, if he's already in draw down, that's unlikely to be an option.

With IHT for pensions, we know that changes are probably coming thanks to the 2014 Budget. However, we don't know what they are. At this stage I wouldn't go as far as to say "there will most likely not be any IHT on your death." We simply don't know yet and need to monitor developments.

Your call to differ.

I can tell you though that one you are drawing income from your pension scheme, a QROPs becomes extremely difficult. QROPS are designed mainly for people who haven't yet started to draw benefits. While working for a previous bank in Thailand I looked into these as a potential offering to expats. Including research, face to face meetings and talking to our Singapore hub specialising in wealth management and Channel Islands based offices to see how this could work in conjunction/ to complement with other new products we were looking at in Thailand. So it's an area I know quite well first hand. BTW In Thailand the call was that it wasn't worthwhile as a business investment for the bank, although other locations do do it for HNWI and Private Banking in particular.

Even for the 2014 budget changes they will not affect people who are already drawing their pension in most cases. The changes will apply to people who have not yet taken pension income, including having deferred taking it, and those in income drawdown. None of these are relevant here.

So while in theory it will be nice theory to switch a UK pension income scheme into overseas cash to mitigate FX risk, it's not going to happen for OP

OP is 71 and seems like he is already drawing his pension which is govt base, and it stops on death. On that basis it would be pretty clear neither QROPs or the new pension changes will be relevant

The following links may be of interest to some, although to OP I'd say they'd probably be wasting his time

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/what-happens-to-my-pension-when-i-die

http://www.hl.co.uk/news/articles/the-4-most-common-retirement-questions-post-budget-2014

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/pensionflexibility.htm

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pensionschemes/news.htm

Cheers

Fletch

Hi Fletch,

I have in fact been drawing on my main pension since I was 55 years old, so I am sure you are correct that there would be little interest from a scheme to take my pension elsewhere.

Lets clear up QROPS - they are applicable to pension funds not yet drawn down. Because of the cash free element they become attractive to brokers/introducers etc.

You say your main pension was drawn down when you were 55 (I did similar). That suggests it is probably a civil service pension (as you mention government backed) and I would have thought that would carry a widows pension. Mine gives 50% less a small % for a 19 year age difference.

These are outside IHT and I doubt very much you will come anywhere near IHT. Consider a joint account for monies that you know you want to go to wife upon your demise.