Sold house in UK.what to do with funds.Help

[davejones23]

I have often though of selling my UK property, but have always come to the conclusion that it's a great investment for the future. I get around 5% rental income plus capital growth, which has been around 10-20% over last few years. If I sold, like you, I'd lose the rental income and have to start spending the money I got for it. I don't know anything that would do as well over the next 10-20 years as property. I'd say a UK property would be a great investment for your daughter. I don't see that cash is a good investment at all. A safe deposit account would pay less than inflation, so the money will become more and more worthless over time. Property generally grows in value over time, although there's always a risk of a property crash. But I've lived through a few of those and am still massively ahead.

So my short answer would be to buy a property. But I doubt that is what you want to hear. I'd be interested to know why you sold it.

In 20 years it could be worth £500K+, and you'd have been getting rental income of maybe 5%. Your £235K on deposit will be worth £235K, and you'll have been getting 1-2% interest. Barring a huge property crash, I can't see how cash is better. Which is why I haven't sold.

In 20 years he will be 91 if still living!!

My advice is take a goodly chunk and have a bloody good time while you can.

If the money was for himself I'd agree, but he wants a good investment for his daughter and wife. For a young daughter I think property would make a fantastic investment.

So if he does as you say, and dies a couple of years later. What would you say is the best way for a Thai national living in Thailand and a half-Thai half English minor. child to manage a UK property as an overseas investment while living in Thailand?

Who would help them thru UK probate, land registry. Then there's monthly bills, taxes, admin, upkeep, insurance, visas to visit, getting around while there etc. Foreign exchange risk?

What would they do if they couldn't find a tenant for the property or ended up with squatters?

I can see how it makes sense for you as a UK national, and why you're comfortable with it, but I'd seriously question a Thai lady and a minor child having their main assets tied up in UK (overseas) property. Not something I'd realistically give more than a few minutes thought to for my Thai wife an kids, but on the other hand I'm always open-minded for solutions.

Cheers

Fletch

Very good points you raise, so of which I hadn't considered. Probate could easily be granted via a lawyer. This is not an unusual situation at all. As for renting out the property, they could put it with an agent and have it fully managed. They would sort everything out, so no real hassle at all. But if they thought it was too much work they could sell. But the OP knows his family best, so perhaps that why he sold.

I'm just thinking that UK property is generally a very good investment. And as his daughter is very young, it would be better than cash. The problem with cash is that inflation can wipe it out totally in a few years or governments can confiscate it, as they recently did in Cyprus.

I fell like if this man lives a long time then the money will become almost worthless.

I wouldn't buy a property fund as someone suggested, as I don't think hey do as well as picking your own property. I've got one property fund in my pension pot that has made next to nothing over the last 5 years. In contrast my own property has doubled in price. Funds tend to diversify too much and take far too much in fees.

I suppose I just prefer real assets e.g. a house. I don't like bits of paper that give you a share of something. Can easily be manipulated and you never really know what you've got or if any fraud is taking place. But that's just me. It's served me very well over the years.

[davejones23]

Your daughter could nearly live from that amount for the rest of her life if the money is placed properly. You have to think about a will in the country where you place the money.

That's laughable to think she could live off it for the rest of her life. Even a 60 year old would need far more than that.

[watcharacters]

i think it's very irresponsible getting a kid when you that old! how will you be able to help your kid?

By leaving it 235KGBP? This is more than most Thais earn in a lifetime.

.

It's not an overwhelming amount.

[KittenKong]

i think it's very irresponsible getting a kid when you that old! how will you be able to help your kid?

By leaving it 235KGBP? This is more than most Thais earn in a lifetime.

It's not an overwhelming amount.

That depends on your point of view. As I mentioned, it's more than many Thais earn in a lifetime and so them it would indeed be overwhelming.

It is also significantly more than many impecunious farang 30-year-olds have to their name, and that doesn't seem to stop them having children.

[davejones23]

i think it's very irresponsible getting a kid when you that old! how will you be able to help your kid?

By leaving it 235KGBP? This is more than most Thais earn in a lifetime.

It's not an overwhelming amount.

That depends on your point of view. As I mentioned, it's more than many Thais earn in a lifetime and so them it would indeed be overwhelming.

It is also significantly more than many impecunious farang 30-year-olds have to their name, and that doesn't seem to stop them having children.

Well, lets see - buy a 10 million baht condo or house - sorry, all money gone in one go.

Maybe you should work out how much she'll get spread over he lifetime. Assuming she had to live for 60 years on that and assuming no inflation, she'd get around 16,000 baht per month. Add in inflation and it will be gone in 10-20 years. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[SheungWan]

i think it's very irresponsible getting a kid when you that old! how will you be able to help your kid?

By leaving it 235KGBP? This is more than most Thais earn in a lifetime.

.

It's not an overwhelming amount.

No it isn't, but the OP has made it clear that he isn't reliant on this money for income purposes, so it will provide a very useful pot for the objectives he has in mind. Since what he wants comes under the heading of financial planning, I would be inclined to consult my accountant and bank relationship manager for advice if he hasn't already done so. A useful reference point.

[Jip99]

i think it's very irresponsible getting a kid when you that old! how will you be able to help your kid?

By leaving it 235KGBP? This is more than most Thais earn in a lifetime.

.

It's not an overwhelming amount.

It is.

Almost 13 million Baht is a HUGE sum to any Thai in the circles that the OP is likely to be moving in.

People have been killed for a tenth of that. Leaving a large lump of money to a wife or child could be a poisoned chalice.

[chiang mai]

Actually I don't agree that it is that huge any more, ten years ago yes, today, no. And the way to manage the risk side is to "will" everything to the wife with a caveat that if death is by anything other than natural causes, the beneficiary changes.

[StefanBBK]

I would leave I the UK everything that does not need to be taxed. Go to your UK bank and tell them what you want to do. Go to two or three banks and compare what they offer/ suggest. Also speak to a couple of insurances. I am sure someone will be able to offer you a good solution to take care of your family. Setup the trust there.

Take the leftover funds and transfer them here. Have your wife buying a good insurance for your daughter for 12 years, pay it all at once.

Invest 50% of the remaining cash in gold. Buy a small house/ rent it out and have that as an extra income.

Just my thoughts on the matter...

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rixalex]

give it to me. i'll take care of wife and child when time is there. word!

Front runner for creepiest post of the day.

[Jip99]

Actually I don't agree that it is that huge any more, ten years ago yes, today, no. And the way to manage the risk side is to "will" everything to the wife with a caveat that if death is by anything other than natural causes, the beneficiary changes.

I will persist with my disagreement about it being a large sum. In absolute terms it may not be (and don't let this become a p!ssing contest about alleged wealth) but in the context of a 'typical' Thai widow it is more than a lifetimes earnings.

I think in many cases such sums would be distributed between family 'back home' and the current Thai family. Most people I know have left the greater proportion to, say, children in the UK than a wife in Thailand.

I like the 'natural causes' clause and I introduced this into my latest Will. My ex-wife in the UK is executor and she will be the final arbiter on that one!

Edited May 5, 2014 by Jip99

[chiang mai]

Actually I don't agree that it is that huge any more, ten years ago yes, today, no. And the way to manage the risk side is to "will" everything to the wife with a caveat that if death is by anything other than natural causes, the beneficiary changes.

I will persist with my disagreement about it being a large sum. In absolute terms it may not be (and don't let this become a p!ssing contest about alleged wealth) but in the context of a 'typical' Thai widow it is more than a lifetimes earnings.

I think in many cases such sums would be distributed between family 'back home' and the current Thai family. Most people I know have left the greater proportion to, say, children in the UK than a wife in Thailand.

I like the 'natural causes' clause and I introduced this into my latest Will. My ex-wife in the UK is executor and she will be the final arbiter on that one!

Yes you are correct, the point I was trying to make however is that "wealthy" and "a lot" are subjective terms which move over time. One mans definition of "a lot" ten years ago is likely "not much" today whilst another man will see things differently.

[fletchsmile]

By leaving it 235KGBP? This is more than most Thais earn in a lifetime.

It's not an overwhelming amount.

That depends on your point of view. As I mentioned, it's more than many Thais earn in a lifetime and so them it would indeed be overwhelming.

It is also significantly more than many impecunious farang 30-year-olds have to their name, and that doesn't seem to stop them having children.

Well, lets see - buy a 10 million baht condo or house - sorry, all money gone in one go.

Maybe you should work out how much she'll get spread over he lifetime. Assuming she had to live for 60 years on that and assuming no inflation, she'd get around 16,000 baht per month. Add in inflation and it will be gone in 10-20 years. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're both right to an extent and it brings up some interesting points for OP to consider. It's one I've given some thought from time to time for my situation. How would I like my wife and kids to live if something happens to me? On one extreme there's maintain an expat lifestyle and on the other the wife maintaining an average Thai lifestyle in a Thai way, and then all the variations in the middle. All with pros and cons. The next point that follows on, is even when you decide what you'd like to happen you've no guarantee or control over it. Your wife, family, circumstances in general could have different ideas.

GBP 235k (THB 12.7mio at rate of 54) isn't necessarily going to provide a sustainable 60 years/ lifetime income for a foreigner as Dave says. Particularly as a foreigners expectations are higher, as illustrated by wanting as an example a nice comfortable (relatively expensive) place to live.

On the other hand if as KK implies for a Thai living a Thai lifestyle that is a huge amount. Many Thais get by on a lot less - particularly up country. Their home purchase would be significantly less. Building a Thai home up country to your average Thai standards would be a few hundred thousand. Buying a small basic condo could again be as low as a few hundred thousand for very basic or perhaps around the THB 1mio mark. Then again many Thais rent for less than a few thousand a month, some under 5k.

GBP 12.7mio over 60 years earning no return is about 17,600 k+ a month just spending capital. More than many Thais live off. You'd expect the capital to earn some return though. Even at 3% in the bank, 12mio would be THB 360k a year or THB 30k before inflation. Spend say THB 20k and save THB 10k to keep pace with inflation, and keep capital growing). Not my idea of what I want but your average Thai would think differently.

All hypothetical, and putting into practice is a challenge in itself. For OP he's mentioned a widow's pension. You both raise the point of what OP is looking for after he's gone, as well as what his family are looking for/expecting. Something probably to be discussed with the Mrs.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 5, 2014 by fletchsmile

[misterphil]

Bank of Dave will give you 5% on your savings.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/bank-of-dave

https://www.burnleysavingsandloans.co.uk/

[Peterphuket]

The advice I can give you is to contact with "Montpelier" it is a company who's investing in bonds etcetera with a minimum risk, they can garanty a 8% yield/year. In my opinion they are reliable and have there office in London. They also have a office in BKK. Use Google for more info (http://www.montpelier.com)

[Peterphuket]

Sorry, I have to correct this, it is: http://www.montpeliergroup.com

[AyG]

Sorry, I have to correct this, it is: http://www.montpeliergroup.com

I don't think it's correct yet. That's a link to a firm of accountants. There's also a (UK) Montpelier Asset Management that doesn't appear to be linked to the accountants, but they don't have overseas offices. There are then companies like Montpelier Wealth Management which appears to have offices in China, Malaysia and Thailand, but doesn't appear to have any links to the UK.

Anyway, whichever company you're writing about, anybody who claims they can invest "in bonds etcetera with a minimum risk ... can garanty a 8% yield/year" is clearly very, very dodgy. The only way you can guarantee 8% a year is by eroding the capital. The only way you can make 8% a year is by taking on a significant degree of risk.

My advice: keep clear.

[fletchsmile]

Sorry, I have to correct this, it is: http://www.montpeliergroup.com

I don't think it's correct yet. That's a link to a firm of accountants. There's also a (UK) Montpelier Asset Management that doesn't appear to be linked to the accountants, but they don't have overseas offices. There are then companies like Montpelier Wealth Management which appears to have offices in China, Malaysia and Thailand, but doesn't appear to have any links to the UK.

Anyway, whichever company you're writing about, anybody who claims they can invest "in bonds etcetera with a minimum risk ... can garanty a 8% yield/year" is clearly very, very dodgy. The only way you can guarantee 8% a year is by eroding the capital. The only way you can make 8% a year is by taking on a significant degree of risk.

My advice: keep clear.

+1

I was interested by the claim, and had exactly the same thoughts as AyG.

I recognise the name of Montpelier as a financial advisor group, and would be very careful. These type of companies offering these products (often offshore bonds) are often designed to maximise their own commission, and can seriously damage your wealth. Not to say they can't be useful to some, but you need to be very careful.

If Peter has a real link to the where they can "guarantee a 8% yield/year" I'd be interested to check it out. I've yet to find a legitimate company offering a "guaranteed 8%" without there being some significant risk or more to the picture elsewhere. Anyone pitching that to me sets alarm bells ringing. My own annual returns on my investments exceed that on average, but I take risks to do so and understand the risks that some years will be less and some more, and capital is at risk. These probably wouldn't be appropriate either for many retirees.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 5, 2014 by fletchsmile

[Peterphuket]

Sorry, I have to correct this, it is: http://www.montpeliergroup.com

I don't think it's correct yet. That's a link to a firm of accountants. There's also a (UK) Montpelier Asset Management that doesn't appear to be linked to the accountants, but they don't have overseas offices. There are then companies like Montpelier Wealth Management which appears to have offices in China, Malaysia and Thailand, but doesn't appear to have any links to the UK.

Anyway, whichever company you're writing about, anybody who claims they can invest "in bonds etcetera with a minimum risk ... can garanty a 8% yield/year" is clearly very, very dodgy. The only way you can guarantee 8% a year is by eroding the capital. The only way you can make 8% a year is by taking on a significant degree of risk.

My advice: keep clear.

+1

I was interested by the claim, and had exactly the same thoughts as AyG.

I recognise the name of Montpelier as a financial advisor group, and would be very careful. These type of companies offering these products (often offshore bonds) are often designed to maximise their own commission, and can seriously damage your wealth. Not to say they can't be useful to some, but you need to be very careful.

If Peter has a real link to the where they can "guarantee a 8% yield/year" I'd be interested to check it out. I've yet to find a legitimate company offering a "guaranteed 8%" without there being some significant risk or more to the picture elsewhere. Anyone pitching that to me sets alarm bells ringing. My own annual returns on my investments exceed that on average, but I take risks to do so and understand the risks that some years will be less and some more, and capital is at risk. These probably wouldn't be appropriate either for many retirees.

Cheers

Fletch

@AyG and @Fletchsmile

Maybe you'r right but I have vist there office in BKK and they give a good feeling, they investing inter alia in Pimco, as far as I know it is a big investment fund. But ofcourse "garantee" investment is impossible.

[Naam]

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[Jip99]

Sorry, I have to correct this, it is: http://www.montpeliergroup.com

I don't think it's correct yet. That's a link to a firm of accountants. There's also a (UK) Montpelier Asset Management that doesn't appear to be linked to the accountants, but they don't have overseas offices. There are then companies like Montpelier Wealth Management which appears to have offices in China, Malaysia and Thailand, but doesn't appear to have any links to the UK.

Anyway, whichever company you're writing about, anybody who claims they can invest "in bonds etcetera with a minimum risk ... can garanty a 8% yield/year" is clearly very, very dodgy. The only way you can guarantee 8% a year is by eroding the capital. The only way you can make 8% a year is by taking on a significant degree of risk.

My advice: keep clear.

I recommend 50% in BCCI and 50% in Ice Save ....... they were offering MUCH better rates.

Risk and reward has it's differential rates for a reason.

[AyG]

@AyG and @Fletchsmile

Maybe you'r right but I have vist there office in BKK and they give a good feeling, they investing inter alia in Pimco, as far as I know it is a big investment fund. But ofcourse "garantee" investment is impossible.

Just because they give you a good feeling is no reason to trust them. The reality is they aren't there to help you - they're there to make themselves a lot of commission. They are not even one step up from being conmen, so of course they're going to do their best to give you a good feeling.

Just because they invest in well-known mutual funds doesn't mean they're not raking in enormous amounts of commission for themselves in the process; you'd be better off investing directly (or more specifically, via a fund wrapper account) and cutting out the middle man.

You might ask what relevant professional qualifications your conman salesman has. I'd wager it's nothing. If he were doing what he's doing here in the UK he'd be breaking the law.

I don't want to be rude, but you appear rather naive in financial matters and are about to be badly ripped off. It would be sad to see you posting here in a year or two saying how you've lost virtually all your money because of bad investment. There have been a number of stories here along those lines over the past few years. You really need to get a much better understanding of investment before you deal with an unregulated financial advisor. (And then, when you have the better understanding you won't need to use one.)

[phusingpete]

Hi, have just read through these suggestions which raise a lot of issues for me to consider, I do need to go through them all again to make the most of the info.

I did consider buying another property in England but considered my age and difficulties which may be encountered by my

wife upon my demise, I ruled it out. The property I have now was rented out and I encountered many problems over the years.even with an agent and it was not always profitable.

We have two houses in Thailand, one in the village and one in Surin, where my daughter goes to school so there is possible

rental income to be had there.

I should explain that my daughter is 100% Thai, my wife and I adopted her when she was three weeks old. She is now six

speaks very good English, she attends a private school where she is doing well, loves books and has an enquiring mind.

I think a good international school is out of our league, but hopefully good state schools with an English programme would

set her up for university. I have no problem being her dad at my age we have a great time.

I would like to you guy's for the great responces, really appreciated.

sent by Peter

[youngerman]

I did the same about 3 years ago. Sold my property ,paid off the mortgage and bought a Electric only(No gas to service every year) New build flat for 106,000. Now worth approx 140,000. I get 640 rent net per month, (after paying for management) I have to pay approx 550 service, ground rent,insurance, per year.

Before that I was getting about 2% per year in the bank.

Good Luck!

[phusingpete]

Sorry should be Thankyou. Dont know why the sentences jump about.

[Jip99]

Hi, have just read through these suggestions which raise a lot of issues for me to consider, I do need to go through them all again to make the most of the info.

I did consider buying another property in England but considered my age and difficulties which may be encountered by my

wife upon my demise, I ruled it out. The property I have now was rented out and I encountered many problems over the years.even with an agent and it was not always profitable.

We have two houses in Thailand, one in the village and one in Surin, where my daughter goes to school so there is possible

rental income to be had there.

I should explain that my daughter is 100% Thai, my wife and I adopted her when she was three weeks old. She is now six

speaks very good English, she attends a private school where she is doing well, loves books and has an enquiring mind.

I think a good international school is out of our league, but hopefully good state schools with an English programme would

set her up for university. I have no problem being her dad at my age we have a great time.

I would like to you guy's for the great responces, really appreciated.

sent by Peter

Pete, remember that you don't own any property in Thailand. The Surin and village properties are likely to be in your wife's name.

It just raises the question that a Thai Will may not be needed - especially if you decide to keep your capital in the UK.

[catweazle]

Peter, I am quite sure you will get a lot of downright stupid answers here to this question, like, "Transfer the cash into my account!", etc... My two cents, and my honest opinion here is: Get (or keep) property with a good rental income that you can also utilize yourself if needed and invest the rest (the preferrably larger chunk) in life and travelling (alone and also with your family) before the $#it hits the fan, something that will certainly happen in your lifetime, given all those power-addicted, warmonger idiots at the helm of those "calling the shots governments" and the global economic situation. Travel memories and memories of heartwarming moments with loved ones in your life can't be taken away from you by anyone, and you can always recall/relive them; but house, land, money, assets of any kind can be snapped from you instantly and are worthless in the end. Also look into farming for self-sufficient living like I actually do.

Edited May 5, 2014 by catweazle

[rixalex]

I did consider buying another property in England but considered my age and difficulties which may be encountered by my

wife upon my demise, I ruled it out. The property I have now was rented out and I encountered many problems over the years.even with an agent and it was not always profitable.

We have two houses in Thailand, one in the village and one in Surin, where my daughter goes to school so there is possible

rental income to be had there.

I'd concur with this. I have rental property both in England and Thailand, and think that in the case of Thai people having to manage it, property in Thailand, would be much more suitable, because even after employing agents in the UK, there is quite a bit of work to do in terms of general management. A smallish condo in Bangkok, on skytrain / MRT line, in the region of 2M, would i think be a good and manageable investment, if property is a consideration.

[phusingpete]

Hi jip99,

yes I realise this, I have 30 plus 30 year lease on the house in Surin, should see me out. Interestingly the exact same

design house next door just sold for 1,000,000 baht more than we paid for ours a few years ago.

Another factor of concern is what happens if my wife dies, how does an adopted daughter figure in the great scheme

of things?

Again thanks everyone for your contributions.

[phusingpete]

Why oh why is my text jumping about???????