PM asked to step down

[GunterChiangMai]

Abhisit's proposal looks entirely reasonable. And it will look even more reasonable six months from now, after its long been rejected. It's a way out of the current dilemma. It actually concedes a Yingluck Pheu Thai victory in November. By resigning now before the Constitutional Court's ruling, she retains her future options. Abhisit is actually providing her with not only a path out of the current dilemma, but a chance for a future PM bid. This is really an enormous gift for Pheu Thai, though they - and their supporters - are too blinded by hate to see it. If the Constitutional Court removes her from her position, her future as PM is finished. If the Constitutional Court removes her cabinet, the Pheu Thai administration is finished. Life would therefore look very different after such a ruling than before. Abhisit explicitly says that Pheu Thai will be happy with the election six months from now. He says that because he knows, Pheu Thai knows, Pheu Thai supporters know, and most everyone else concedes - that the next administration would likely be a Pheu Thai administration. What else is offered here ? Abhisit would step down. That is something Pheu Thai have wanted for ages. The Democratic party would contest the election. That is also something Pheu Thai has wanted, because it means that a quorum for a Pheu Thai administration would be enabled. Pheu Thai gets all of that. And yet still they sling verbal hate at Abhisit - without discussing any - any - of his ideas. Pheu Thai are throwing out an enormous opportunity here - for themselves. The concession that Abhisit suggests are a six month voluntary abdication from power. In actual fact, Pheu Thai are already without power because they do not have a parliamentary quorum. They can't do anything. Is that so big a concession ? Abhisit's proposal includes no wish to ban the Shinawatra family from prime ministerial office. Does Pheu Thai realize how difficult it will be for Democrats to swallow that ? Have they any conception ? Also part of Abhisit's plan is that there would be no laws enacted in the next six months - because there is no parliamentary quorum. Does Pheu Thai realize how far this is from Suthep's wild proposal ? Those who say that Abhisit and Suthep are joined at the hip are flying in the face of logic over this profound difference.

The concession - and this is the part that Thaksin won't like - and the reason why this outreach will be scuttled - is that the reform process during the next six months would likely include provisions that would make it illegally impossible to yield the kind of influence Thaksin has been practicing. Therefore - like the amnesty bill - everything will be funneled through the wishes of what Thaksin wants, and will be rejected as such. In the meantime, Pheu Thai will never see an offer this good. Ever. They have decided - which means that Thaksin has decided - to let the conflict and divisions escalate. But what Thaksin, Pheu Thai, and their supporters don't realize - is that that will yield them nothing of what they want. But they will still manage to take everyone else down with them in the process.

how is it 'reasonable' to include the PDRC but not the government side? it's moronic and doomed to failure (as is Abhisit/Suthep)

the judicial coup will force Yingluck out but Thais will be furious and it

solves NOTHING

I hope Buddha Issara will seize power! His Buddha Dharma Army will save Thailand!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kannot]

Why dont the ;lot of em trot down to the nearest zoo and hand over the keys to the chimps, they'd do a better job and I bet genetically speaking are identical to all Thai politicians

[PatOngo]

Abhisit's proposal looks entirely reasonable. And it will look even more reasonable six months from now, after its long been rejected. It's a way out of the current dilemma. It actually concedes a Yingluck Pheu Thai victory in November. By resigning now before the Constitutional Court's ruling, she retains her future options. Abhisit is actually providing her with not only a path out of the current dilemma, but a chance for a future PM bid. This is really an enormous gift for Pheu Thai, though they - and their supporters - are too blinded by hate to see it. If the Constitutional Court removes her from her position, her future as PM is finished. If the Constitutional Court removes her cabinet, the Pheu Thai administration is finished. Life would therefore look very different after such a ruling than before. Abhisit explicitly says that Pheu Thai will be happy with the election six months from now. He says that because he knows, Pheu Thai knows, Pheu Thai supporters know, and most everyone else concedes - that the next administration would likely be a Pheu Thai administration. What else is offered here ? Abhisit would step down. That is something Pheu Thai have wanted for ages. The Democratic party would contest the election. That is also something Pheu Thai has wanted, because it means that a quorum for a Pheu Thai administration would be enabled. Pheu Thai gets all of that. And yet still they sling verbal hate at Abhisit - without discussing any - any - of his ideas. Pheu Thai are throwing out an enormous opportunity here - for themselves. The concession that Abhisit suggests are a six month voluntary abdication from power. In actual fact, Pheu Thai are already without power because they do not have a parliamentary quorum. They can't do anything. Is that so big a concession ? Abhisit's proposal includes no wish to ban the Shinawatra family from prime ministerial office. Does Pheu Thai realize how difficult it will be for Democrats to swallow that ? Have they any conception ? Also part of Abhisit's plan is that there would be no laws enacted in the next six months - because there is no parliamentary quorum. Does Pheu Thai realize how far this is from Suthep's wild proposal ? Those who say that Abhisit and Suthep are joined at the hip are flying in the face of logic over this profound difference.

The concession - and this is the part that Thaksin won't like - and the reason why this outreach will be scuttled - is that the reform process during the next six months would likely include provisions that would make it illegally impossible to yield the kind of influence Thaksin has been practicing. Therefore - like the amnesty bill - everything will be funneled through the wishes of what Thaksin wants, and will be rejected as such. In the meantime, Pheu Thai will never see an offer this good. Ever. They have decided - which means that Thaksin has decided - to let the conflict and divisions escalate. But what Thaksin, Pheu Thai, and their supporters don't realize - is that that will yield them nothing of what they want. But they will still manage to take everyone else down with them in the process.

how is it 'reasonable' to include the PDRC but not the government side? it's moronic and doomed to failure (as is Abhisit/Suthep)

the judicial coup will force Yingluck out but Thais will be furious and it

solves NOTHING

I hope Buddha Issara will seize power! His Buddha Dharma Army will save Thailand!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Fat chance........I think the next Shin in line will prevail and the rot will continue...........till the next final push..........the cycle will go on.

[rubl]

In the OP and in Abhisit's announcement yesterday of his sincerely bogus plan AV has done all three and more, I simply mentioned three genuinely duplicitous laughers he drolled off his lips...

In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything.

Abhisit said if the government doesn't resign the same situation would continue, which is hardly the government's fault to begin with and has been as much Abhisit's creation as anyone else.

The PDRC and the RNN have not accepted AV's bogus proposals yet AV's scheme would turn the country over to them and to the Senate leaders rather than directly or immediately to the voters to make their sovereign decision. AV needs first to get the agreement of these two groups, the cave man PDRC especially, before pressuring the government to resign.

AV is trying to take the pressure off the judges by seeking to force the government out of office prior to the rulings of both the CC and the NACC. Abhisit at least knows a case of cold feet in the judiciary when he sees one, and he is well aware of the immediate consequences of an impending judicial coup d'état.

And here's the kicker - the resignation of the government will only mean YL and Thai voters will not lose anything except "having to take a break before the next election". The next election YL will be a grandmother three times over and AV will be gazing into the mirror still wearing his white uniform with the gold shoulder boards of prime minister-for-life..

Next AV will start selling prime properties at a special price for you today only in Dubai.

As you state your assumptions as facts you should have ended your post with IMHO.

'duplicity', 'bogus, 'Abhisit known', 'cave man', bla, bla and more blablabla.

IMHO, of course

I stated what's been reported and you call it my opinion. I assume of course you did read the post, which would then mean you're in need of remedial reading. To wit:

AV said if the government resigned there would be no coup is fact.

AV said if the government didn't resign the situation would remain the same is fact.

The PDRC have not endorsed AV's proposals and have rejected same is fact.

AV said the government should resign before the judges rule is fact.

AV said the only inconvenience to the government if it resigned would be that of "having to take a break before the next election" is fact.

So rather than being glib and flighty about using the word 'opinion' you should at least say I stated mostly fact and some opinion, not all opinion. That I based my brief statements of opinion on facts carefully found and presented.

Fess up now on this one rubl !

"duplicity', 'bogus plan', 'specific knowledge on a coup', 'hardly the government's fault'.

Fess up, my dear fellow.

BTW how many days ago now that the Yingluck administration tried to push through a blanket amnesty bill which even covered their first two years in office?

Edited May 4, 2014 by rubl

[JAG]

"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."

Leo Amery 1940.

Timeless.

Actually originally attributed to Oliver Cromwell dismissing parliament in 1653.

He then proceeded to set up a military dictatorship, and curtail freedoms of speech, assembly and religion.

A regime which was hated by the people, who promptly restored the previous regime when he died!

Hmm, maybe it is timeless.....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

In the OP and in Abhisit's announcement yesterday of his sincerely bogus plan AV has done all three and more, I simply mentioned three genuinely duplicitous laughers he drolled off his lips...

In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything.

Abhisit said if the government doesn't resign the same situation would continue, which is hardly the government's fault to begin with and has been as much Abhisit's creation as anyone else.

The PDRC and the RNN have not accepted AV's bogus proposals yet AV's scheme would turn the country over to them and to the Senate leaders rather than directly or immediately to the voters to make their sovereign decision. AV needs first to get the agreement of these two groups, the cave man PDRC especially, before pressuring the government to resign.

AV is trying to take the pressure off the judges by seeking to force the government out of office prior to the rulings of both the CC and the NACC. Abhisit at least knows a case of cold feet in the judiciary when he sees one, and he is well aware of the immediate consequences of an impending judicial coup d'état.

And here's the kicker - the resignation of the government will only mean YL and Thai voters will not lose anything except "having to take a break before the next election". The next election YL will be a grandmother three times over and AV will be gazing into the mirror still wearing his white uniform with the gold shoulder boards of prime minister-for-life..

Next AV will start selling prime properties at a special price for you today only in Dubai.

As you state your assumptions as facts you should have ended your post with IMHO.

'duplicity', 'bogus, 'Abhisit known', 'cave man', bla, bla and more blablabla.

IMHO, of course

I stated what's been reported and you call it my opinion. I assume of course you did read the post, which would then mean you're in need of remedial reading. To wit:

AV said if the government resigned there would be no coup is fact.

AV said if the government didn't resign the situation would remain the same is fact.

The PDRC have not endorsed AV's proposals and have rejected same is fact.

AV said the government should resign before the judges rule is fact.

AV said the only inconvenience to the government if it resigned would be that of "having to take a break before the next election" is fact.

So rather than being glib and flighty about using the word 'opinion' you should at least say I stated mostly fact and some opinion, not all opinion. That I based my brief statements of opinion on facts carefully found and presented.

Fess up now on this one rubl !

All this rubbish is still being splattered -arguing the toss about reforms and firmly believing that the said government was a classic one.

It was it did sod all for the people in 3 years had a lame PM who was never in control and you want to shore up this load of nutters.

You supported this government who GOT this coalition together to rule through it's pre election pledges, who swore to rule with integrity, honestly for the Kingdom.

Through exposure - internet-world news- warnings from every quarter PTP abused the system, brushed aside the law, and got that sure of themselves self destructed.

YOU and others with these past personal beliefs are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom. Amazing pro government farrang----Joke all of you for not mellowing and waking up to reality.

Say what you like about my post, it's as honest as can be, you are the ones that should feel guilty. I am no DEM supporter but are classed as one because I recognize bad crooked government, that once had the chance to do something worthwhile but blew it away big time.

I for one do not have a solution for the mega mess, and read in disgust pro government propaganda.

[JAG]

Extraordinary! Ginjag suggesting people should be mellow!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Bluespunk]

"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."

Leo Amery 1940.

Timeless.

Actually originally attributed to Oliver Cromwell dismissing parliament in 1653.

He then proceeded to set up a military dictatorship, and curtail freedoms of speech, assembly and religion.

A regime which was hated by the people, who promptly restored the previous regime when he died!

Hmm, maybe it is timeless.....

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I'm quoting Amery as I regard Cromwell as a genocidal butcher, who set up militias to shut down theatres and refused to allow those who disagreed with him have any public platform on which to speak.

Now, who's being doing that lately, preventing concerts by those they see as not holding their views and preventing other groups having any public meetings? Let me think

P.S. the parliament Cromwell dismissed was the one he was involved in setting up after the civil war, so essentially an internal conflict. PT beware your militia leaders.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Morch]

Wut? Where in the OP does he attempt blackmail, instil fear or threaten? Beelocks!

In the OP and in Abhisit's announcement yesterday of his sincerely bogus plan AV has done all three and more, I simply mentioned three genuinely duplicitous laughers he drolled off his lips...

In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything.

Abhisit said if the government doesn't resign the same situation would continue, which is hardly the government's fault to begin with and has been as much Abhisit's creation as anyone else.

The PDRC and the RNN have not accepted AV's bogus proposals yet AV's scheme would turn the country over to them and to the Senate leaders rather than directly or immediately to the voters to make their sovereign decision. AV needs first to get the agreement of these two groups, the cave man PDRC especially, before pressuring the government to resign.

AV is trying to take the pressure off the judges by seeking to force the government out of office prior to the rulings of both the CC and the NACC. Abhisit at least knows a case of cold feet in the judiciary when he sees one, and he is well aware of the immediate consequences of an impending judicial coup d'état.

And here's the kicker - the resignation of the government will only mean YL and Thai voters will not lose anything except "having to take a break before the next election". The next election YL will be a grandmother three times over and AV will be gazing into the mirror still wearing his white uniform with the gold shoulder boards of prime minister-for-life..

Next AV will start selling prime properties at a special price for you today only in Dubai.

"In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything."

It doesn't necessarily imply that he has specific knowledge in this regard. That's conjecture.

Abhisit does not control the Army, and doubtful that he can make threats on the Army's behalf.

He's also not in a position to blackmail the government.

Instill fear? Thought no one was taking him seriously, why would anyone be afraid of him?

I recall going through this before with another poster, but let's do the drill again here too.

In the Godfather a true legality was presented when the consiliere Tom Hagan pointed out that if you refer to a list, then legally it means you have knowledge of the list. If you met with the person who wrote the list, then came out talking about the list, saying something that's on the list, then legally you know the list exists.

Put another more direct way, if Michael has a meeting with another family head then tells the Godfather they're gonna hit the Corleone family, the old man is gonna take him seriously and act accordingly.

Michael Abhisit met with the supreme commander and AV now says there will be no coup if the government accepts Michael's Mark's proposal to resign now, or before the judges rule - preferably now. Which is pretty much blackmail.

And it's well known publicly that Thaksin insists bad news be delivered to him immediately.

There were quite a few posts on TVF saying Abhisit is a spent force in Thai politics, a failed leader and in general belittling him from every angle possible. It sounds a bit far-fetched that this wreck of a politician would be in a position to extract a solid commitment of backup from the Army, or be trusted to deliver such a message/threat on the Army's behalf.

I'll buy that if and when someone wakes up with a horse's head in their bed or, preferably, retires to tend his tomato garden.

And thanks, just helped us narrow down movie options for later

[ginjag]

Extraordinary! Ginjag suggesting people should be mellow!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why not. Your as guilty as the PTP for self destruction. No second chance for them, as duly elected you supported them and still do, they blew it big time, shame really with that majority they should have worked wonders--they did for themselves only.. sorry for you.

[Publicus]

In the OP and in Abhisit's announcement yesterday of his sincerely bogus plan AV has done all three and more, I simply mentioned three genuinely duplicitous laughers he drolled off his lips...

In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything.

Abhisit said if the government doesn't resign the same situation would continue, which is hardly the government's fault to begin with and has been as much Abhisit's creation as anyone else.

The PDRC and the RNN have not accepted AV's bogus proposals yet AV's scheme would turn the country over to them and to the Senate leaders rather than directly or immediately to the voters to make their sovereign decision. AV needs first to get the agreement of these two groups, the cave man PDRC especially, before pressuring the government to resign.

AV is trying to take the pressure off the judges by seeking to force the government out of office prior to the rulings of both the CC and the NACC. Abhisit at least knows a case of cold feet in the judiciary when he sees one, and he is well aware of the immediate consequences of an impending judicial coup d'état.

And here's the kicker - the resignation of the government will only mean YL and Thai voters will not lose anything except "having to take a break before the next election". The next election YL will be a grandmother three times over and AV will be gazing into the mirror still wearing his white uniform with the gold shoulder boards of prime minister-for-life..

Next AV will start selling prime properties at a special price for you today only in Dubai.

"In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything."

It doesn't necessarily imply that he has specific knowledge in this regard. That's conjecture.

Abhisit does not control the Army, and doubtful that he can make threats on the Army's behalf.

He's also not in a position to blackmail the government.

Instill fear? Thought no one was taking him seriously, why would anyone be afraid of him?

I recall going through this before with another poster, but let's do the drill again here too.

In the Godfather a true legality was presented when the consiliere Tom Hagan pointed out that if you refer to a list, then legally it means you have knowledge of the list. If you met with the person who wrote the list, then came out talking about the list, saying something that's on the list, then legally you know the list exists.

Put another more direct way, if Michael has a meeting with another family head then tells the Godfather they're gonna hit the Corleone family, the old man is gonna take him seriously and act accordingly.

Michael Abhisit met with the supreme commander and AV now says there will be no coup if the government accepts Michael's Mark's proposal to resign now, or before the judges rule - preferably now. Which is pretty much blackmail.

And it's well known publicly that Thaksin insists bad news be delivered to him immediately.

There were quite a few posts on TVF saying Abhisit is a spent force in Thai politics, a failed leader and in general belittling him from every angle possible. It sounds a bit far-fetched that this wreck of a politician would be in a position to extract a solid commitment of backup from the Army, or be trusted to deliver such a message/threat on the Army's behalf.

I'll buy that if and when someone wakes up with a horse's head in their bed or, preferably, retires to tend his tomato garden.

And thanks, just helped us narrow down movie options for later

No question it's better than waking up to all of a sudden find there's a horse's ass as PM.

Think of the cries of anguish then.

And propitious that tomatoes and heart attacks = things red.

Put 'em both in the garden.

Enjoy .

Edited May 4, 2014 by Publicus

[MickGC]

Pheu Thai willing to listen to Abhisit’s proposal

BANGKOK, 4 May 2014 (NNT) – The ruling Pheu Thai Party says it is willing to hear from Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva about his political roadmap, which is aimed at ending the ongoing political conflict.

In response to Mr. Abhisit’s nine-point political roadmap, Pheu Thai Deputy Spokesperson Anusorn Aimsaard said the Pheu Thai Party would be willing to study Mr. Abhisit’s proposal as long as it did not breach the Constitution, adding that the party would be supportive if Mr. Abhisit’s roadmap was really meant to solve the ongoing political unrest in the country.

However, he said that the Pheu Thai Party would announce whether or not it would take Mr. Abhisit’s advice after a thorough study.

The roadmap proposed by the Opposition party leader suggests that Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra resign and that the election be postponed in order to avoid the possibility of future violence and a military coup d’etat. The proposal also calls for a neutral interim government, which will be in charge of a political reform.

According to Mr. Abhisit’s political roadmap, the reform process should take about 18 months while the election should be organized within 150-180 days upon the completion of the reform.

-- NNT 2014-05-04

I'm getting confused (yes, I know before you say it, it's not hard to do) . . . but up until this article/statement, haven't ALL PT MP's and the party itself dismissed Abhisit's proposal out of hand? There's been a raft of PT MP's making statements dismissing his proposal. What's changed for them now to consider it? Are they even (PT I am referring to) talking to each other or have some form of cohesive "mission" and or being on the same page for once?

No. That was the PDRC that "dismissed Abhisit's proposal out of hand"

[Maggusoil]

Very well criticising arm chair critics, however if you don't like arm chair critics, don't spend time here.

After all. This is an anonymous forum, where up to a point, all us armchair critics can proffer our opinions with impunity.

Lets face it. If we didn't have opinions we wouldn't be here and amongst the junk and the badly thunk, are some wise words and funny.

I am aghast at the plethora of comments amongst the political elite about 'REFORMS'.

Indefinitely putting off an election which will have a predictably unpalatable result, is just prolonging the agony.

All that is needed, is the gumption to ENFORCE the laws Thailand already has.

If people are corrupt, they are corrupt and must be excised from positions of power.

This is the same in the West. When the law fails, so does social cohesion.

[rubl]

No question it's better than waking up to all of a sudden find there's a horse's ass as PM.

Think of the cries of anguish then.

And propitious that tomatoes and heart attacks = things red.

Put 'em both in the garden.

Enjoy .

Totally agree, a filly's or even a mare's ass is to be preferred

[metisdead]

A post containing a profane nickname name for a politician as well as being in odd font has has been removed along with the replies.

[JAG]

Extraordinary! Ginjag suggesting people should be mellow!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why not. Your as guilty as the PTP for self destruction. No second chance for them, as duly elected you supported them and still do, they blew it big time, shame really with that majority they should have worked wonders--they did for themselves only.. sorry for you.

Don't waste time being sorry for me - just keep the rants coming, they always raise a smile!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[sirineou]

When ever I read a news story on TVF especially if it is an Opinion piece the first thing I do is scroll to the bottom to see what the source is and out it in proper perspective.

in TVF 90% of the time political news stories are from the Nation, any one that knows the nation also know the adversarial relationship between the Shinawatras and The Nations agenda, and given TVF's preference of The Nation over the thousands of other news sources one has to wonder of TVF's agenda also

The Opposition has requested Yingluck's resignation every single day in the past few months, One has to wonder what makes this one a news story?

[Songlaw]

Don't be silly. The plan is

1- Elected PM needs to leave.

2- A "god person" (aka an hysterical royalist) is appointed

3- End of story

The plan is to make the temporary gvt lasting until something important enough happens to postpone any political life in the country for years. Thus the temporary gvt will have at least 3 years to organize the new constitution which will have nothing to do with Democracy.

Wow, a moderator that has at least some idea of what this is really all about. Well done

Agreed.

[Songlaw]

Abhisit's proposal looks entirely reasonable. And it will look even more reasonable six months from now, after its long been rejected. It's a way out of the current dilemma. It actually concedes a Yingluck Pheu Thai victory in November. By resigning now before the Constitutional Court's ruling, she retains her future options. Abhisit is actually providing her with not only a path out of the current dilemma, but a chance for a future PM bid. This is really an enormous gift for Pheu Thai, though they - and their supporters - are too blinded by hate to see it. If the Constitutional Court removes her from her position, her future as PM is finished. If the Constitutional Court removes her cabinet, the Pheu Thai administration is finished. Life would therefore look very different after such a ruling than before. Abhisit explicitly says that Pheu Thai will be happy with the election six months from now. He says that because he knows, Pheu Thai knows, Pheu Thai supporters know, and most everyone else concedes - that the next administration would likely be a Pheu Thai administration. What else is offered here ? Abhisit would step down. That is something Pheu Thai have wanted for ages. The Democratic party would contest the election. That is also something Pheu Thai has wanted, because it means that a quorum for a Pheu Thai administration would be enabled. Pheu Thai gets all of that. And yet still they sling verbal hate at Abhisit - without discussing any - any - of his ideas. Pheu Thai are throwing out an enormous opportunity here - for themselves. The concession that Abhisit suggests are a six month voluntary abdication from power. In actual fact, Pheu Thai are already without power because they do not have a parliamentary quorum. They can't do anything. Is that so big a concession ? Abhisit's proposal includes no wish to ban the Shinawatra family from prime ministerial office. Does Pheu Thai realize how difficult it will be for Democrats to swallow that ? Have they any conception ? Also part of Abhisit's plan is that there would be no laws enacted in the next six months - because there is no parliamentary quorum. Does Pheu Thai realize how far this is from Suthep's wild proposal ? Those who say that Abhisit and Suthep are joined at the hip are flying in the face of logic over this profound difference.

The concession - and this is the part that Thaksin won't like - and the reason why this outreach will be scuttled - is that the reform process during the next six months would likely include provisions that would make it illegally impossible to yield the kind of influence Thaksin has been practicing. Therefore - like the amnesty bill - everything will be funneled through the wishes of what Thaksin wants, and will be rejected as such. In the meantime, Pheu Thai will never see an offer this good. Ever. They have decided - which means that Thaksin has decided - to let the conflict and divisions escalate. But what Thaksin, Pheu Thai, and their supporters don't realize - is that that will yield them nothing of what they want. But they will still manage to take everyone else down with them in the process.

You managed to draw a distinction between Abhisit's position and that of Suthep's that I had not fully considered, To think that Abhisit could actually turn out to be a voice of reason in this melee is an interesting concept. In any event, this was well written. Were it possible, I might consider an edit for "legally impossible" and "wield the kind of influence", in the last paragraph. However, it is certainly understandable as written. Kudos.

[Thaddeus]

No question it's better than waking up to all of a sudden find there's a horse's ass as PM.

Think of the cries of anguish then.

Already happened.

Look at the result.

//edit/ my mistake/ it's a clone of an horse's ass/ which would be a donkey, maybe a crab.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Thaddeus

[Snowdog]

Yingluck should not be allowed to enter the election plus should be banned from politics as any other Thaksin the terrorist relatives

[Thai at Heart]

And when do you think Mr. Suthep and the PDRC will give u an election. Beyond that, the entire proposal is ILLEGAL.

So both, stupid and illegal. Whoopee.

God forbid he might suggest something illegal and unconstitutional. People get kicked out of being PM for having such bad ideas.

....................."People get kicked out of being PM for having such bad ideas.".............................................

As we are just about to witness !

Precisely.

Ptp want to change the constitution and they get walloped.

Abhisit wants to do it and he gets a round of applause??????

AV is not going to change the constitution he is going to do away with it completely and install a total dictatorship with his supreme commander suthep as the didctator. If you can not see that then I will be happy to lend you my glasses.

I presume he won't be be threatened with jail but Yingluck will.

Hey I am not chuffed to see what's happening . I don't need your specs. I do however think that virtually no one gives a damn what Abhisit comes up with. He's not relevant any more. Was he ever?

He doesn't have guns and he doesn't have supporters , he has no balls and he has no principles and he isn't corrupt.

He doesn't fit anywhere.

[Jim walker]

Abhisit urges, who in their right mind would ever listen to that wimp.

[Publicus]

In the OP and in Abhisit's announcement yesterday of his sincerely bogus plan AV has done all three and more, I simply mentioned three genuinely duplicitous laughers he drolled off his lips...

In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything.

Abhisit said if the government doesn't resign the same situation would continue, which is hardly the government's fault to begin with and has been as much Abhisit's creation as anyone else.

The PDRC and the RNN have not accepted AV's bogus proposals yet AV's scheme would turn the country over to them and to the Senate leaders rather than directly or immediately to the voters to make their sovereign decision. AV needs first to get the agreement of these two groups, the cave man PDRC especially, before pressuring the government to resign.

AV is trying to take the pressure off the judges by seeking to force the government out of office prior to the rulings of both the CC and the NACC. Abhisit at least knows a case of cold feet in the judiciary when he sees one, and he is well aware of the immediate consequences of an impending judicial coup d'état.

And here's the kicker - the resignation of the government will only mean YL and Thai voters will not lose anything except "having to take a break before the next election". The next election YL will be a grandmother three times over and AV will be gazing into the mirror still wearing his white uniform with the gold shoulder boards of prime minister-for-life..

Next AV will start selling prime properties at a special price for you today only in Dubai.

As you state your assumptions as facts you should have ended your post with IMHO.

'duplicity', 'bogus, 'Abhisit known', 'cave man', bla, bla and more blablabla.

IMHO, of course

I stated what's been reported and you call it my opinion. I assume of course you did read the post, which would then mean you're in need of remedial reading. To wit:

AV said if the government resigned there would be no coup is fact.

AV said if the government didn't resign the situation would remain the same is fact.

The PDRC have not endorsed AV's proposals and have rejected same is fact.

AV said the government should resign before the judges rule is fact.

AV said the only inconvenience to the government if it resigned would be that of "having to take a break before the next election" is fact.

So rather than being glib and flighty about using the word 'opinion' you should at least say I stated mostly fact and some opinion, not all opinion. That I based my brief statements of opinion on facts carefully found and presented.

Fess up now on this one rubl !

All this rubbish is still being splattered -arguing the toss about reforms and firmly believing that the said government was a classic one.

It was it did sod all for the people in 3 years had a lame PM who was never in control and you want to shore up this load of nutters.

You supported this government who GOT this coalition together to rule through it's pre election pledges, who swore to rule with integrity, honestly for the Kingdom.

Through exposure - internet-world news- warnings from every quarter PTP abused the system, brushed aside the law, and got that sure of themselves self destructed.

YOU and others with these past personal beliefs are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom. Amazing pro government farrang----Joke all of you for not mellowing and waking up to reality.

Say what you like about my post, it's as honest as can be, you are the ones that should feel guilty. I am no DEM supporter but are classed as one because I recognize bad crooked government, that once had the chance to do something worthwhile but blew it away big time.

I for one do not have a solution for the mega mess, and read in disgust pro government propaganda.

Your post is off the mark so I have some responsibility to you to clarify a central point about my posts, which is that I support democracy in Thailand and I oppose dictatorship here, the same as may concern anywhere else. You are waaaay off the mark to say "YOU.....are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom."

It's a multi-tasked effort to keep track of the many posters here and of our varying views, but an honest effort needs to be made by each of us in this respect. So you need just in the instance of my post above to find anything in it that says I support the political party in government, the political party itself or the founder of the party.

My posts are anti-fascist posts. My posts are not pro-PTP posts nor are my posts pro-Thaksin posts.

Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy. One group of Thai society is pro-democracy, the other is not. I support the side that benefits democracy and that benefits from democracy.

Additionally, this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs while no other political party will do that. All sides benefit themselves so that particular factor determines nothing because it is hypocritical and absurd to try to politicize corruption when everyone is and always has been corrupt.

In the proverbial nutshell, I support Thai society being inclusive rather than exclusive, egalitarian rather than feudal, democratic as opposed to dictatorial, the rule of law rather than the rule of rulers, and the socio-economic development of the country.

The PDRC and everything and everyone they are, that the PDRC represent, defend, advocate, are reactionary forces that would do to Thailand as the generals did to Burma for the past half-century. Give Abhisit's brain to Thaksin and Thaksin's balls to Abhisit and maybe Thailand would get the leader it so desperately needs. No such development will occur however because severe socio-cultural flaws here impose uncomfortable limitations on our leadership options and choices.

It is of course up to the Thais to determine their own destiny or fate, positively or negatively. Fahlang opinion does matter to Thais even as they love to dismiss it, and especially because they love to dismiss it. The least you can do here as you read my posts from now forward is to recognize my posts as being anti-fascist and pro an inclusive developing democratic society, not as pro PTP. They're all a bunch of gangsters, every single last one of 'em - every one.

[ginjag]

All this rubbish is still being splattered -arguing the toss about reforms and firmly believing that the said government was a classic one.

It was it did sod all for the people in 3 years had a lame PM who was never in control and you want to shore up this load of nutters.

You supported this government who GOT this coalition together to rule through it's pre election pledges, who swore to rule with integrity, honestly for the Kingdom.

Through exposure - internet-world news- warnings from every quarter PTP abused the system, brushed aside the law, and got that sure of themselves self destructed.

YOU and others with these past personal beliefs are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom. Amazing pro government farrang----Joke all of you for not mellowing and waking up to reality.

Say what you like about my post, it's as honest as can be, you are the ones that should feel guilty. I am no DEM supporter but are classed as one because I recognize bad crooked government, that once had the chance to do something worthwhile but blew it away big time.

I for one do not have a solution for the mega mess, and read in disgust pro government propaganda.

Your post is off the mark so I have some responsibility to you to clarify a central point about my posts, which is that I support democracy in Thailand and I oppose dictatorship here, the same as may concern anywhere else. You are waaaay off the mark to say "YOU.....are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom."

It's a multi-tasked effort to keep track of the many posters here and of our varying views, but an honest effort needs to be made by each of us in this respect. So you need just in the instance of my post above to find anything in it that says I support the political party in government, the political party itself or the founder of the party.

My posts are anti-fascist posts. My posts are not pro-PTP posts nor are my posts pro-Thaksin posts.

Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy. One group of Thai society is pro-democracy, the other is not. I support the side that benefits democracy and that benefits from democracy.

Additionally, this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs while no other political party will do that. All sides benefit themselves so that particular factor determines nothing because it is hypocritical and absurd to try to politicize corruption when everyone is and always has been corrupt.

In the proverbial nutshell, I support Thai society being inclusive rather than exclusive, egalitarian rather than feudal, democratic as opposed to dictatorial, the rule of law rather than the rule of rulers, and the socio-economic development of the country.

The PDRC and everything and everyone they are, that the PDRC represent, defend, advocate, are reactionary forces that would do to Thailand as the generals did to Burma for the past half-century. Give Abhisit's brain to Thaksin and Thaksin's balls to Abhisit and maybe Thailand would get the leader it so desperately needs. No such development will occur however because severe socio-cultural flaws here impose uncomfortable limitations on our leadership options and choices.

It is of course up to the Thais to determine their own destiny or fate, positively or negatively. Fahlang opinion does matter to Thais even as they love to dismiss it, and especially because they love to dismiss it. The least you can do here as you read my posts from now forward is to recognize my posts as being anti-fascist and pro an inclusive developing democratic society, not as pro PTP. They're all a bunch of gangsters, every single last one of 'em - every one.

Complete utter denial pro government remarks.

I am not this I am not that. LOOK AT ALL OF YOUR POSTS, you think posters are not aware of your stance, proof----the likes you get are from the same bunch every time Quote. "this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs and no other party will do that" ha ha your neutral ???

This government in 3 years has done nothing.

Reform no

road improvements no---more and more carnage.

Railways--more de railments

Your post is full of pro government BS, and your beloved government which had it's chance squandered it away big time.

Your post says you are democratic----anti fascist----transparent, this government elected democratic turned anti democratic in it's operation.

Why then do you support them-----forget any opposition replies--we have heard them all before--- This subject is about your stance and why ???

You answered but you failed to recognize a failed in all aspects PTP.

[Krataiboy]

Well he would say that, wouldn't he.

[ginjag]

Extraordinary! Ginjag suggesting people should be mellow!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Why not. Your as guilty as the PTP for self destruction. No second chance for them, as duly elected you supported them and still do, they blew it big time, shame really with that majority they should have worked wonders--they did for themselves only.. sorry for you.

Don't waste time being sorry for me - just keep the rants coming, they always raise a smile!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You pro government rubbish is well documented along with your followers. Those of like mind give you likes--BUT same old brigade--in denial

Supporting a regime that did nothing for this country over 3 years. my posts are not anti Thai government- they are anti PTP and the Shins.

I will support a Thai government that acts responsibly--your lot failed miserably.

[Publicus]

All this rubbish is still being splattered -arguing the toss about reforms and firmly believing that the said government was a classic one.

It was it did sod all for the people in 3 years had a lame PM who was never in control and you want to shore up this load of nutters.

You supported this government who GOT this coalition together to rule through it's pre election pledges, who swore to rule with integrity, honestly for the Kingdom.

Through exposure - internet-world news- warnings from every quarter PTP abused the system, brushed aside the law, and got that sure of themselves self destructed.

YOU and others with these past personal beliefs are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom. Amazing pro government farrang----Joke all of you for not mellowing and waking up to reality.

Say what you like about my post, it's as honest as can be, you are the ones that should feel guilty. I am no DEM supporter but are classed as one because I recognize bad crooked government, that once had the chance to do something worthwhile but blew it away big time.

I for one do not have a solution for the mega mess, and read in disgust pro government propaganda.

Your post is off the mark so I have some responsibility to you to clarify a central point about my posts, which is that I support democracy in Thailand and I oppose dictatorship here, the same as may concern anywhere else. You are waaaay off the mark to say "YOU.....are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom."

It's a multi-tasked effort to keep track of the many posters here and of our varying views, but an honest effort needs to be made by each of us in this respect. So you need just in the instance of my post above to find anything in it that says I support the political party in government, the political party itself or the founder of the party.

My posts are anti-fascist posts. My posts are not pro-PTP posts nor are my posts pro-Thaksin posts.

Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy. One group of Thai society is pro-democracy, the other is not. I support the side that benefits democracy and that benefits from democracy.

Additionally, this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs while no other political party will do that. All sides benefit themselves so that particular factor determines nothing because it is hypocritical and absurd to try to politicize corruption when everyone is and always has been corrupt.

In the proverbial nutshell, I support Thai society being inclusive rather than exclusive, egalitarian rather than feudal, democratic as opposed to dictatorial, the rule of law rather than the rule of rulers, and the socio-economic development of the country.

The PDRC and everything and everyone they are, that the PDRC represent, defend, advocate, are reactionary forces that would do to Thailand as the generals did to Burma for the past half-century. Give Abhisit's brain to Thaksin and Thaksin's balls to Abhisit and maybe Thailand would get the leader it so desperately needs. No such development will occur however because severe socio-cultural flaws here impose uncomfortable limitations on our leadership options and choices.

It is of course up to the Thais to determine their own destiny or fate, positively or negatively. Fahlang opinion does matter to Thais even as they love to dismiss it, and especially because they love to dismiss it. The least you can do here as you read my posts from now forward is to recognize my posts as being anti-fascist and pro an inclusive developing democratic society, not as pro PTP. They're all a bunch of gangsters, every single last one of 'em - every one.

Complete utter denial pro government remarks.

I am not this I am not that. LOOK AT ALL OF YOUR POSTS, you think posters are not aware of your stance, proof----the likes you get are from the same bunch every time Quote. "this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs and no other party will do that" ha ha your neutral ???

This government in 3 years has done nothing.

Reform no

road improvements no---more and more carnage.

Railways--more de railments

Your post is full of pro government BS, and your beloved government which had it's chance squandered it away big time.

Your post says you are democratic----anti fascist----transparent, this government elected democratic turned anti democratic in it's operation.

Why then do you support them-----forget any opposition replies--we have heard them all before--- This subject is about your stance and why ???

You answered but you failed to recognize a failed in all aspects PTP.

I made clear in the post that I'd chosen sides in this street conflict which has also gone institutional and very likely will go beyond debate, argument, elections, institutional decisions. I haven't ever claimed, as you claim of me, to be "neutral."

Because you've completely missed the differences, distinctions, nuances and rationales I presented in my expository post, let me try to leave you with two words you might be able to associate with my posts as all this carries forward - anti-fascist. I don't want to confuse you further, but I must add that also means pro-democracy, so that's four words.

That doesn't necessarily mean everyone I criticize might be a fascist. A diversity of people exist on both sides and each individual has his reason to support either side. Those actually in between are neuter rather than neutral.

The PDRC types however are worshipers of the feudal system. They love and fondle over the "quaintness" of feudal society, culture, institutions, people and ways. They will fight to the finish to preserve and to further impose the feudalism they found and so adore living by.

The feudalists have found the only way to preserve and to further impose their beloved feudalism is by the fascism of the PDRC. They will go to the wall for that too. So I'm the guy they'll see (ever so briefly) when they are hauled up to the wall. .

[ginjag]

All this rubbish is still being splattered -arguing the toss about reforms and firmly believing that the said government was a classic one.

It was it did sod all for the people in 3 years had a lame PM who was never in control and you want to shore up this load of nutters.

You supported this government who GOT this coalition together to rule through it's pre election pledges, who swore to rule with integrity, honestly for the Kingdom.

Through exposure - internet-world news- warnings from every quarter PTP abused the system, brushed aside the law, and got that sure of themselves self destructed.

YOU and others with these past personal beliefs are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom. Amazing pro government farrang----Joke all of you for not mellowing and waking up to reality.

Say what you like about my post, it's as honest as can be, you are the ones that should feel guilty. I am no DEM supporter but are classed as one because I recognize bad crooked government, that once had the chance to do something worthwhile but blew it away big time.

I for one do not have a solution for the mega mess, and read in disgust pro government propaganda.

Your post is off the mark so I have some responsibility to you to clarify a central point about my posts, which is that I support democracy in Thailand and I oppose dictatorship here, the same as may concern anywhere else. You are waaaay off the mark to say "YOU.....are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom."

It's a multi-tasked effort to keep track of the many posters here and of our varying views, but an honest effort needs to be made by each of us in this respect. So you need just in the instance of my post above to find anything in it that says I support the political party in government, the political party itself or the founder of the party.

My posts are anti-fascist posts. My posts are not pro-PTP posts nor are my posts pro-Thaksin posts.

Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy. One group of Thai society is pro-democracy, the other is not. I support the side that benefits democracy and that benefits from democracy.

Additionally, this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs while no other political party will do that. All sides benefit themselves so that particular factor determines nothing because it is hypocritical and absurd to try to politicize corruption when everyone is and always has been corrupt.

In the proverbial nutshell, I support Thai society being inclusive rather than exclusive, egalitarian rather than feudal, democratic as opposed to dictatorial, the rule of law rather than the rule of rulers, and the socio-economic development of the country.

The PDRC and everything and everyone they are, that the PDRC represent, defend, advocate, are reactionary forces that would do to Thailand as the generals did to Burma for the past half-century. Give Abhisit's brain to Thaksin and Thaksin's balls to Abhisit and maybe Thailand would get the leader it so desperately needs. No such development will occur however because severe socio-cultural flaws here impose uncomfortable limitations on our leadership options and choices.

It is of course up to the Thais to determine their own destiny or fate, positively or negatively. Fahlang opinion does matter to Thais even as they love to dismiss it, and especially because they love to dismiss it. The least you can do here as you read my posts from now forward is to recognize my posts as being anti-fascist and pro an inclusive developing democratic society, not as pro PTP. They're all a bunch of gangsters, every single last one of 'em - every one.

Complete utter denial pro government remarks.

I am not this I am not that. LOOK AT ALL OF YOUR POSTS, you think posters are not aware of your stance, proof----the likes you get are from the same bunch every time Quote. "this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs and no other party will do that" ha ha your neutral ???

This government in 3 years has done nothing.

Reform no

road improvements no---more and more carnage.

Railways--more de railments

Your post is full of pro government BS, and your beloved government which had it's chance squandered it away big time.

Your post says you are democratic----anti fascist----transparent, this government elected democratic turned anti democratic in it's operation.

Why then do you support them-----forget any opposition replies--we have heard them all before--- This subject is about your stance and why ???

You answered but you failed to recognize a failed in all aspects PTP.

I made clear in the post that I'd chosen sides in this street conflict which has also gone institutional and very likely will go beyond debate, argument, elections, institutional decisions. I haven't ever claimed, as you claim of me, to be "neutral."

Because you've completely missed the differences, distinctions, nuances and rationales I presented in my expository post, let me try to leave you with two words you might be able to associate with my posts as all this carries forward - anti-fascist. I don't want to confuse you further, but I must add that also means pro-democracy, so that's four words.

That doesn't necessarily mean everyone I criticize might be a fascist. A diversity of people exist on both sides and each individual has his reason to support either side. Those actually in between are neuter rather than neutral.

The PDRC types however are worshipers of the feudal system. They love and fondle over the "quaintness" of feudal society, culture, institutions, people and ways. They will fight to the finish to preserve and to further impose the feudalism they found and so adore living by.

The feudalists have found the only way to preserve and to further impose their beloved feudalism is by the fascism of the PDRC. They will go to the wall for that too. So I'm the guy they'll see (ever so briefly) when they are hauled up to the wall. .

I too am anti Fascist but your point then is ???

I am certainly NOT confused by anything, if you are PRO democracy why support a demo elected government that turned out to be opposite--this is being proved???

So your 1st 3 paragraphs are full of What ??

Your last 2 paragraphs speak volumes about your denial and call PDRC as fascist but no mention of RED thugs and antics, believe me there will be far more court cases against Shin government+PTP than PDRC. I will wait and see how your super government fair in the courts over the months.

If you were fair and honest you would outlaw ANY bad governing as well as bad opposition.

[Thaddeus]

All this rubbish is still being splattered -arguing the toss about reforms and firmly believing that the said government was a classic one.

It was it did sod all for the people in 3 years had a lame PM who was never in control and you want to shore up this load of nutters.

You supported this government who GOT this coalition together to rule through it's pre election pledges, who swore to rule with integrity, honestly for the Kingdom.

Through exposure - internet-world news- warnings from every quarter PTP abused the system, brushed aside the law, and got that sure of themselves self destructed.

YOU and others with these past personal beliefs are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom. Amazing pro government farrang----Joke all of you for not mellowing and waking up to reality.

Say what you like about my post, it's as honest as can be, you are the ones that should feel guilty. I am no DEM supporter but are classed as one because I recognize bad crooked government, that once had the chance to do something worthwhile but blew it away big time.

I for one do not have a solution for the mega mess, and read in disgust pro government propaganda.

Your post is off the mark so I have some responsibility to you to clarify a central point about my posts, which is that I support democracy in Thailand and I oppose dictatorship here, the same as may concern anywhere else. You are waaaay off the mark to say "YOU.....are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom."

It's a multi-tasked effort to keep track of the many posters here and of our varying views, but an honest effort needs to be made by each of us in this respect. So you need just in the instance of my post above to find anything in it that says I support the political party in government, the political party itself or the founder of the party.

My posts are anti-fascist posts. My posts are not pro-PTP posts nor are my posts pro-Thaksin posts.

Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy. One group of Thai society is pro-democracy, the other is not. I support the side that benefits democracy and that benefits from democracy.

Additionally, this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs while no other political party will do that. All sides benefit themselves so that particular factor determines nothing because it is hypocritical and absurd to try to politicize corruption when everyone is and always has been corrupt.

In the proverbial nutshell, I support Thai society being inclusive rather than exclusive, egalitarian rather than feudal, democratic as opposed to dictatorial, the rule of law rather than the rule of rulers, and the socio-economic development of the country.

The PDRC and everything and everyone they are, that the PDRC represent, defend, advocate, are reactionary forces that would do to Thailand as the generals did to Burma for the past half-century. Give Abhisit's brain to Thaksin and Thaksin's balls to Abhisit and maybe Thailand would get the leader it so desperately needs. No such development will occur however because severe socio-cultural flaws here impose uncomfortable limitations on our leadership options and choices.

It is of course up to the Thais to determine their own destiny or fate, positively or negatively. Fahlang opinion does matter to Thais even as they love to dismiss it, and especially because they love to dismiss it. The least you can do here as you read my posts from now forward is to recognize my posts as being anti-fascist and pro an inclusive developing democratic society, not as pro PTP. They're all a bunch of gangsters, every single last one of 'em - every one.

Complete utter denial pro government remarks.

I am not this I am not that. LOOK AT ALL OF YOUR POSTS, you think posters are not aware of your stance, proof----the likes you get are from the same bunch every time Quote. "this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs and no other party will do that" ha ha your neutral ???

This government in 3 years has done nothing.

Reform no

road improvements no---more and more carnage.

Railways--more de railments

Your post is full of pro government BS, and your beloved government which had it's chance squandered it away big time.

Your post says you are democratic----anti fascist----transparent, this government elected democratic turned anti democratic in it's operation.

Why then do you support them-----forget any opposition replies--we have heard them all before--- This subject is about your stance and why ???

You answered but you failed to recognize a failed in all aspects PTP.

I made clear in the post that I'd chosen sides in this street conflict which has also gone institutional and very likely will go beyond debate, argument, elections, institutional decisions. I haven't ever claimed, as you claim of me, to be "neutral."

Because you've completely missed the differences, distinctions, nuances and rationales I presented in my expository post, let me try to leave you with two words you might be able to associate with my posts as all this carries forward - anti-fascist. I don't want to confuse you further, but I must add that also means pro-democracy, so that's four words.

That doesn't necessarily mean everyone I criticize might be a fascist. A diversity of people exist on both sides and each individual has his reason to support either side. Those actually in between are neuter rather than neutral.

The PDRC types however are worshipers of the feudal system. They love and fondle over the "quaintness" of feudal society, culture, institutions, people and ways. They will fight to the finish to preserve and to further impose the feudalism they found and so adore living by.

The feudalists have found the only way to preserve and to further impose their beloved feudalism is by the fascism of the PDRC. They will go to the wall for that too. So I'm the guy they'll see (ever so briefly) when they are hauled up to the wall. .

How are things in Tooting these days Wolfie?