PM asked to step down

[Melyn]

Abhisit's proposal looks entirely reasonable. And it will look even more reasonable six months from now, after its long been rejected. It's a way out of the current dilemma. It actually concedes a Yingluck Pheu Thai victory in November. By resigning now before the Constitutional Court's ruling, she retains her future options. Abhisit is actually providing her with not only a path out of the current dilemma, but a chance for a future PM bid. This is really an enormous gift for Pheu Thai, though they - and their supporters - are too blinded by hate to see it. If the Constitutional Court removes her from her position, her future as PM is finished. If the Constitutional Court removes her cabinet, the Pheu Thai administration is finished. Life would therefore look very different after such a ruling than before. Abhisit explicitly says that Pheu Thai will be happy with the election six months from now. He says that because he knows, Pheu Thai knows, Pheu Thai supporters know, and most everyone else concedes - that the next administration would likely be a Pheu Thai administration. What else is offered here ? Abhisit would step down. That is something Pheu Thai have wanted for ages. The Democratic party would contest the election. That is also something Pheu Thai has wanted, because it means that a quorum for a Pheu Thai administration would be enabled. Pheu Thai gets all of that. And yet still they sling verbal hate at Abhisit - without discussing any - any - of his ideas. Pheu Thai are throwing out an enormous opportunity here - for themselves. The concession that Abhisit suggests are a six month voluntary abdication from power. In actual fact, Pheu Thai are already without power because they do not have a parliamentary quorum. They can't do anything. Is that so big a concession ? Abhisit's proposal includes no wish to ban the Shinawatra family from prime ministerial office. Does Pheu Thai realize how difficult it will be for Democrats to swallow that ? Have they any conception ? Also part of Abhisit's plan is that there would be no laws enacted in the next six months - because there is no parliamentary quorum. Does Pheu Thai realize how far this is from Suthep's wild proposal ? Those who say that Abhisit and Suthep are joined at the hip are flying in the face of logic over this profound difference.

The concession - and this is the part that Thaksin won't like - and the reason why this outreach will be scuttled - is that the reform process during the next six months would likely include provisions that would make it illegally impossible to yield the kind of influence Thaksin has been practicing. Therefore - like the amnesty bill - everything will be funneled through the wishes of what Thaksin wants, and will be rejected as such. In the meantime, Pheu Thai will never see an offer this good. Ever. They have decided - which means that Thaksin has decided - to let the conflict and divisions escalate. But what Thaksin, Pheu Thai, and their supporters don't realize - is that that will yield them nothing of what they want. But they will still manage to take everyone else down with them in the process.

how is it 'reasonable' to include the PDRC but not the government side? it's moronic and doomed to failure (as is Abhisit/Suthep)

the judicial coup will force Yingluck out but Thais will be furious and it solves NOTHING

Does the proposal stipulate that either government/PTP/UDD is barred from the decision making process regarding reforms?

It does seem unclear who will participate and who will have a say, but did not notice in includes an direct exclusion.

As far as I'm aware neither of those Thaksin-led bodies had ever proposed anything

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[Fat Haggis]

Maybe he doesn't elaborate on the red thugs as you put it because the discussion is about the PDRC?

Some of you guys need to take a break from getting so worked up over a political situation you neither have influence or control over.

One poster even said Thailand is finished!! What complete drivel, a few bad apples doesn't destroy an orchard nor the land it's planted in!!.

Thailand will amble on and on and on as it has done so for decades and life all over the rest of Thailand will continue without disruption just like it had also done so since December, Bangkok isn't Thailand and where I live in Korat there's been no political disruptions or Ill feeling towards farangs or anyone else, they're getting on with their lives without disruption which a good many posters here need to start doing as well.

Opinions here are just that totally irrelevant to the voting Thai person.

Happy Coronation Day, long live the King

[Eric Loh]

Silence, election date is now been set for 20th July. The EC will start drafting the royal decree. Ahbisit plan has been shot to pieces by all including his own. All the angst for nothing really. The people will decide.

[ginjag]

Silence, election date is now been set for 20th July. The EC will start drafting the royal decree. Ahbisit plan has been shot to pieces by all including his own. All the angst for nothing really. The people will decide.

Good--How many of your corrupt lot will be available for elections ????

The people will not know who to vote for, SO.

You have to have drastic reforms for Thailand then democratic elections. If this is not to happen all is lost.

Why are the Government afraid of Reforms ?? I have an Idea they will not be in a position to fiddle with the system as before, red villages disbanded, no intimidation. Total freedom needed for fair elections. if not no elections, this is democratic. Intimidation during elections are not democratic.

[Mr Yim]

This is the plan.

Just give power to Suthep and the PDRC because they are poo dee and will do the right thing?

Has anyone ever heard anything quite so stupid in all their life?

Yes, I did see much more stupid things than that - your post above for instance ...

No matter who will be the next PM - as long as it's nobody from Thaksins's clan or on of the red zombies.

Everyone would do a better job than the current government of Mr. T., his smiling sister and the red terrorists.

Wow. . . someone is a drama queen

[BigMountain]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

[smutcakes]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

Not to mention that no one has even put forward details of how to reform, what to reform etc etc

[ginjag]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

I do not want to convince you--I am in no position to do that. I only want to say with out a good diving board you cannot have a good dive.

No good having elections without sound laws of transparency.

[Eric Loh]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

I do not want to convince you--I am in no position to do that. I only want to say with out a good diving board you cannot have a good dive.

No good having elections without sound laws of transparency.

Ginjay, how can you have laws without a Parliment? The election is needed to have a parliment that can enact law. Same as reform, we need the reform to be legislated which is what PT suggest. Then after implementation in 12-18 months, people can judge if the reforms are within their expectation and election held again. That seen fair.

[rubl]

Why not hand the power to a group of dangerous, corrupt fascists that have strangled the country for the past 6 months because the poor little things could never be voted into power democratically.

You've been reading too many comic books. PTP strangled the country over the last 3 years before your FASCISTS existed.

It seems you don't have any clue about business and economy.

Thailand economy was quite stable during the last 3 year and investors did like the politic stability and so invested huge amount in the industry .

NOW since YOUR fascist is bringing the politics down and is advocating dictatorship, the investors are pulling back and economy is falling fast.

So if if one is reading comic books it must be you !

Business likes stability and that's it. Whether through democratics principles, dictatorship or crony run economy doesn't matter. Even for the 'corruption' bit business know ways around.

[Morch]

"In AV's statement yesterday AV said there would be no coup if the government stepped down by resigning. This implies Abhisit has specific knowledge in this regard especially since the supreme commander of the armed forces was one of the people AV met with the past week to discuss his proposals. The supreme commander has remained silent which in Thailand means not to sit with your back to the door and not to bend over if you drop anything."

It doesn't necessarily imply that he has specific knowledge in this regard. That's conjecture.

Abhisit does not control the Army, and doubtful that he can make threats on the Army's behalf.

He's also not in a position to blackmail the government.

Instill fear? Thought no one was taking him seriously, why would anyone be afraid of him?

I recall going through this before with another poster, but let's do the drill again here too.

In the Godfather a true legality was presented when the consiliere Tom Hagan pointed out that if you refer to a list, then legally it means you have knowledge of the list. If you met with the person who wrote the list, then came out talking about the list, saying something that's on the list, then legally you know the list exists.

Put another more direct way, if Michael has a meeting with another family head then tells the Godfather they're gonna hit the Corleone family, the old man is gonna take him seriously and act accordingly.

Michael Abhisit met with the supreme commander and AV now says there will be no coup if the government accepts Michael's Mark's proposal to resign now, or before the judges rule - preferably now. Which is pretty much blackmail.

And it's well known publicly that Thaksin insists bad news be delivered to him immediately.

There were quite a few posts on TVF saying Abhisit is a spent force in Thai politics, a failed leader and in general belittling him from every angle possible. It sounds a bit far-fetched that this wreck of a politician would be in a position to extract a solid commitment of backup from the Army, or be trusted to deliver such a message/threat on the Army's behalf.

I'll buy that if and when someone wakes up with a horse's head in their bed or, preferably, retires to tend his tomato garden.

And thanks, just helped us narrow down movie options for later

No question it's better than waking up to all of a sudden find there's a horse's ass as PM.

Think of the cries of anguish then.

And propitious that tomatoes and heart attacks = things red.

Put 'em both in the garden.

Enjoy .

My civil rights were ignored and we ended up watching "The Adjustment Bureau" instead.

Somehow may also fit the bill in relation to Thai politics.

[rubl]

Your post is off the mark so I have some responsibility to you to clarify a central point about my posts, which is that I support democracy in Thailand and I oppose dictatorship here, the same as may concern anywhere else. You are waaaay off the mark to say "YOU.....are denying and brushing aside fact, you are still supporting PTP with venom."

It's a multi-tasked effort to keep track of the many posters here and of our varying views, but an honest effort needs to be made by each of us in this respect. So you need just in the instance of my post above to find anything in it that says I support the political party in government, the political party itself or the founder of the party.

My posts are anti-fascist posts. My posts are not pro-PTP posts nor are my posts pro-Thaksin posts.

Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy. One group of Thai society is pro-democracy, the other is not. I support the side that benefits democracy and that benefits from democracy.

Additionally, this government would provide Thailand with the modern infrastructure it needs while no other political party will do that. All sides benefit themselves so that particular factor determines nothing because it is hypocritical and absurd to try to politicize corruption when everyone is and always has been corrupt.

In the proverbial nutshell, I support Thai society being inclusive rather than exclusive, egalitarian rather than feudal, democratic as opposed to dictatorial, the rule of law rather than the rule of rulers, and the socio-economic development of the country.

The PDRC and everything and everyone they are, that the PDRC represent, defend, advocate, are reactionary forces that would do to Thailand as the generals did to Burma for the past half-century. Give Abhisit's brain to Thaksin and Thaksin's balls to Abhisit and maybe Thailand would get the leader it so desperately needs. No such development will occur however because severe socio-cultural flaws here impose uncomfortable limitations on our leadership options and choices.

It is of course up to the Thais to determine their own destiny or fate, positively or negatively. Fahlang opinion does matter to Thais even as they love to dismiss it, and especially because they love to dismiss it. The least you can do here as you read my posts from now forward is to recognize my posts as being anti-fascist and pro an inclusive developing democratic society, not as pro PTP. They're all a bunch of gangsters, every single last one of 'em - every one.

"Anti-fascist means pro-democratic, pro-democracy."

I'm sure that former communists Dr. weng and Ms. Thida would wholeheartedly agree with you.

The rest is not much better as it seems based on a totally incorrect assumption.

[rubl]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

I do not want to convince you--I am in no position to do that. I only want to say with out a good diving board you cannot have a good dive.

No good having elections without sound laws of transparency.

Ginjay, how can you have laws without a Parliment? The election is needed to have a parliment that can enact law. Same as reform, we need the reform to be legislated which is what PT suggest. Then after implementation in 12-18 months, people can judge if the reforms are within their expectation and election held again. That seen fair.

The good old Thaksin Pheu Thai way. Vote for us and we'll respect your vote till it's counted. Then with a mandate we'll take care of everyone (who counts). Trust us and just give us some (more) time.

[ginjag]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

I do not want to convince you--I am in no position to do that. I only want to say with out a good diving board you cannot have a good dive.

No good having elections without sound laws of transparency.

Ginjay, how can you have laws without a Parliment? The election is needed to have a parliment that can enact law. Same as reform, we need the reform to be legislated which is what PT suggest. Then after implementation in 12-18 months, people can judge if the reforms are within their expectation and election held again. That seen fair.

Your lots problem they blew it away with unlawful actions with your PTP. NOW reform has to come to have sound election whoever wins fairly then can try to run a clean government.

Without sound elections we are NEVER going to get a legit government.

Why is everyone afraid of reform --strict laws for election offenders.

[ginjag]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

If your party is innocent why are you suggesting monitoring ??? before said that your PTP was clean are you saying it isn't clean and needs monitoring???

I think Asean is aware now of the governments record, and is awaiting court verdicts. You cannot have a democratic PTP because the 3 years have proved the opposite.

[Baerboxer]

Abhisit, back to his usual tricks, has just cemented his place as the worst opposition leader in Thai political history.

...and there you have it folks, history has just been rewritten by the most respected political commentator in the country.

Abhisit has been tossed both domestically by the people and globally by the principal democracies and deservedly so.

Abhisit has really sh*t the bed.

I see however Abhisit still can't stop destroying himself because now he's trying blackmail, fear, outright threats.

Abhisit is determined to do everything he can to install a dictatorship and there's just no compromising about it.

Abhisit is dictating absolute demands absolutely, which an honorable leader does not do. If he's better than the people he opposes, then he certainly hasn't shown anything of it.

Abhisit and Suthep have in fact made matters much worse than things were 180 daze ago. Suthep is a loud fanatic but Abhisit is a petulant and secretive obsessive.

Not an Abhisit fan then?

Could you share with us the links where the principal democracies have specifically "tossed" Abhisit please? Also, on what evidence do you make the statement that he has been 'tossed" domestically?

Or are you just making it up?

[mikemac]

Actually I think the PTP are great for the country. They have done it a huge favor, by flushing all the snakes out of the long grass.

[mikemac]

Abhisit, back to his usual tricks, has just cemented his place as the worst opposition leader in Thai political history.

...and there you have it folks, history has just been rewritten by the most respected political commentator in the country.

Abhisit has been tossed both domestically by the people and globally by the principal democracies and deservedly so.

Abhisit has really sh*t the bed.

I see however Abhisit still can't stop destroying himself because now he's trying blackmail, fear, outright threats.

Abhisit is determined to do everything he can to install a dictatorship and there's just no compromising about it.

Abhisit is dictating absolute demands absolutely, which an honorable leader does not do. If he's better than the people he opposes, then he certainly hasn't shown anything of it.

Abhisit and Suthep have in fact made matters much worse than things were 180 daze ago. Suthep is a loud fanatic but Abhisit is a petulant and secretive obsessive.

Not an Abhisit fan then?

Could you share with us the links where the principal democracies have specifically "tossed" Abhisit please? Also, on what evidence do you make the statement that he has been 'tossed" domestically?

Or are you just making it up?

Something has been "tossed" and it is not a politician.

[BigMountain]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

If your party is innocent why are you suggesting monitoring ??? before said that your PTP was clean are you saying it isn't clean and needs monitoring???

I think Asean is aware now of the governments record, and is awaiting court verdicts. You cannot have a democratic PTP because the 3 years have proved the opposite.

It's not my party

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[jayboy]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

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[PatOngo]

Actually I think the PTP are great for the country. They have done it a huge favor, by flushing all the snakes out of the long grass.

Shame is there's more snakes than there is long grass.

[ginjag]

Ginjag you are just never going to be able to convince me and many others that reform before elections is pro democracy. Parties should contest elections on policy platforms of reform. ASEAN and the UN could provide monitoring support to ensure a democratic election.

If your party is innocent why are you suggesting monitoring ??? before said that your PTP was clean are you saying it isn't clean and needs monitoring???

I think Asean is aware now of the governments record, and is awaiting court verdicts. You cannot have a democratic PTP because the 3 years have proved the opposite.

It's not my party

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Then why is mega reform wrong before elections. Surely it has more stability and a better platform for democracy. You sat you want that so what appears to be the matter ??

[ginjag]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you said quote, "many of those that ASKED him to step down were murdered" The reds didn't ask him they pillaged, they murdered, and made a bamboo and tyre fortress with kids in a compound and the parents- they were armed. This is fact the outcome is not the point, "they asked him" is a mega joke

[opalred]

she did step down and sprained her angkle and would be the longest person in history in wheelchair to heal

or want people to feel sorry for her and why wouldnt she be here in the north last time brother elected he gave

every small village 1mil baht govt loan for people in villages who needed ?? add up all small villages ??

i know village i live in

no one has paid back yet maybe she is here to collect for brother cheers

[jayboy]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you said quote, "many of those that ASKED him to step down were murdered" The reds didn't ask him they pillaged, they murdered, and made a bamboo and tyre fortress with kids in a compound and the parents- they were armed. This is fact the outcome is not the point, "they asked him" is a mega joke

Whicheer way you want to play it,he is facing murder charges. Abhisit is toxic and contaminated.That's why his attempt to mediate (essentially offering a warmed up package of the Suthep demands) is a cosmic joke.

[See the bears]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you said quote, "many of those that ASKED him to step down were murdered" The reds didn't ask him they pillaged, they murdered, and made a bamboo and tyre fortress with kids in a compound and the parents- they were armed. This is fact the outcome is not the point, "they asked him" is a mega joke

They did ask him to allow elections in an extremely large, but peaceful rally at Phan Fa bridge. Things only escalated when he sent in the army with loaded war weapons at dusk, against international conventions. After that declaration of war on the regime's part, the reds were backed into a corner and responded as any group under attack would.

Yingluck has thankfully shown us how a mature and compassionate leader deals with an armed group forcefully occupying city areas.

[Morch]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If memory serves, Abhisit actually negotiated with the protestors, and a tentative deal was reached. Cancelled later as further demands arose.

[Morch]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you said quote, "many of those that ASKED him to step down were murdered" The reds didn't ask him they pillaged, they murdered, and made a bamboo and tyre fortress with kids in a compound and the parents- they were armed. This is fact the outcome is not the point, "they asked him" is a mega joke

They did ask him to allow elections in an extremely large, but peaceful rally at Phan Fa bridge. Things only escalated when he sent in the army with loaded war weapons at dusk, against international conventions. After that declaration of war on the regime's part, the reds were backed into a corner and responded as any group under attack would.

Yingluck has thankfully shown us how a mature and compassionate leader deals with an armed group forcefully occupying city areas.

The negotiations were conducted during the end of March. The Army's attempt to clear the protestors from Phan Fa bridge was on April 10. Just making clear it wasn't on the same day. Can now commence arguments on who's to blame for the violence etc.

[See the bears]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you said quote, "many of those that ASKED him to step down were murdered" The reds didn't ask him they pillaged, they murdered, and made a bamboo and tyre fortress with kids in a compound and the parents- they were armed. This is fact the outcome is not the point, "they asked him" is a mega joke

They did ask him to allow elections in an extremely large, but peaceful rally at Phan Fa bridge. Things only escalated when he sent in the army with loaded war weapons at dusk, against international conventions. After that declaration of war on the regime's part, the reds were backed into a corner and responded as any group under attack would.

Yingluck has thankfully shown us how a mature and compassionate leader deals with an armed group forcefully occupying city areas.

The negotiations were conducted during the end of March. The Army's attempt to clear the protestors from Phan Fa bridge was on April 10. Just making clear it wasn't on the same day. Can now commence arguments on who's to blame for the violence etc.

"Negotiations between the protesters and the government failed to result in a resolution of the situation. The protesters insisted that Abhisit dissolve Parliament and call fresh elections. The government refused to do so before it had amended the constitution."Wikipedia

[ginjag]

Seems a bit odd.Abhisit asks Yingluck to step down.But when Abhisit was PM and country was similarly divided many of those who asked him to step down were murdered in the streets.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

you said quote, "many of those that ASKED him to step down were murdered" The reds didn't ask him they pillaged, they murdered, and made a bamboo and tyre fortress with kids in a compound and the parents- they were armed. This is fact the outcome is not the point, "they asked him" is a mega joke

They did ask him to allow elections in an extremely large, but peaceful rally at Phan Fa bridge. Things only escalated when he sent in the army with loaded war weapons at dusk, against international conventions. After that declaration of war on the regime's part, the reds were backed into a corner and responded as any group under attack would.

Yingluck has thankfully shown us how a mature and compassionate leader deals with an armed group forcefully occupying city areas.

Sorry for laughing at your OTT biased post, 25 posts, new or one of the few who changes their forum name.??

Edited May 5, 2014 by ginjag