Mobile phone use on airplanes, how dangerous is it?

[jay1980]

On 2 recent flights the person sitting next to me was using their phone (not in flight mode) throughout takeoff and landing.

The first was a young farang guy on a Nok Air flight from Phuket to Don Muang.

He was checking his phone as we approached Don Muang, When the announcement was made that all electronic devices should be switched off, a flight attendant asked him to switch it off, he pretended to switch it off but did not, as we descended he picked up a 3g signal and had a chat with someone on whatsapp throughout the whole landing process.

The second was on an EVA air flight from Suvarnabhumi to Heathrow, middle aged British guy sitting next to me again was told to turn off his phone the flight attendant, he switched off the screen but not the phone, as we taxied down the runway he received a call. He did cut his chat fairly short with 'oh sorry I'm on my flight' but even then I don't think he turned off the phone.

I think it is quite rude and arrogant to act like this even if there is a slight risk to peoples safety and my own phone is always fully switched off throughout the flights, but how great is the danger?

Clearly both planes landed safely at their destinations, and some people must be doing this everyday.

Is it worth complaining? I value my safety and the safety of others but on the other hand I don't want to get into an unnecessary altercation with an arrogant stranger, who in the case of the EVA flight I would have to be sitting next to for the best part of 12 hours so I kept quiet and my feeling of what an arseh0le those passengers were to myself.

How would you have reacted?

cheers

[lomatopo]

It is not dangerous at all.

Thousands of people leave their phones on, if only by accident, of flights every single day.

However the plane really needs to be equipped with specialized equipment, or be below 5,000 feet, for mobile technology to work.

I know the FAA/FCC are expected to approve in-flight usage quite soon in the U.S.

If you feel that your safety is being compromised you should make your concerns known to a member of the flight crew. Whinging, after the fact, on an internet forum doesn't do much good, obviously.

http://thepointsguy.com/2013/12/in-flight-phone-callstexts-roundup-which-international-airlines-allow-talking-and-texting-on-the-phone/

Edited May 4, 2014 by lomatopo

[SDM0712]

From what I understand lomatopo is quite right. The concern has always been the "what if" factor that the 'phone might disrupt some system on board. I also understand that even when the 'phone is off its transmits a periodic signal anyway which is how the police track them, hence criminals remove the batteries, but that might be Hollywood BS. With Easy Jet (a contradiction in terms) in the UK the cabin crew tell you not to switch on the 'phone until you are in the terminal building. I did ask once how aircraft navigation can be compromised when the aircraft is at the stand with the engines off, but no answer. I suppose they just want people off the 'plane ASAP without "what's apping " their friends ..."I'm back !!"

The "will affect aircraft navigation " is probably a similar line to "might affect sensitive equipment" in a hospital when the reality is that most doctors use their mobiles on the wards. What they are really trying to avoid are ringing phones, text messages beeps and the like.

I think the airlines that will soon be permitting mobile phone use on board though will be limiting the use to wi-fi only. (Although have subsequently read the article above)

Rotate, landing gear up.

SDM

Edited May 4, 2014 by SDM0712

[JLCrab]

I was once on a domestic USA flight where -- after repeatedly asking a guy to turn off his laptop computer -- the flight attendant said: I'm not going to ask you again; I will just arrange for security to be at our gate upon landing.

Regardless of whether it is a navigation hazard in the air or with ground control, it is a civil offense in the USA to disobey the instructions of a flight attendant or any other flight personnel.

"As part of the FAA's Reauthorization Bill (April 16, 2000) FAA can propose up to $25,000 per violation for unruly passenger cases." From FAA.gov

[Langsuan Man]

Any attempts to allow mobile phone use has resulted in massive complaints from the general public not about the danger to airplane electronics but about the social engineering aspects of allowing a plane load of people to disturb their fellow passengers with hours of mindless chatter.

Most people refuse to be captives of other peoples drivel, especially in an environment where there is no escape

[jay1980]

thanks for your replies, and the posted article.

The I did note that the article states:

FCC has also said it is considering a proposal that would allow passengers to use their cell phones to make phone calls and text on aircraft flying above 10,000 feet (still not during takeoff and landing).

And both incidents I experienced happened during takeoff and landing, still think 100% no risk?

I do fly a lot and I know obviously on a large plane there are always going to be some phones switched on throughout, just when the last 2 flights I took the person next to me so blatantly ignored the instructions and request from flight attendants it made me think about it.

I apologize for sounding like I was winging, it was intended as a straight question.

cheers

[apiwan]

They've now got wifi on planes .how dangerous is that ?

Taking off from swampy on etihad flight the whole plane was shaking

And the pilot announced please check your devices if on.

We're getting a lot of interference up here. :-)

I was running the next episode of air crash investigation through my mind.

All airlines do safety checks IE : with loads of testers on board all watching TV .

1 making a phone call etc .

So must be something there .

When air bus is pretty automatic

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[lomatopo]

Any attempts to allow mobile phone use has resulted in massive complaints from the general public not about the danger to airplane electronics but about the social engineering aspects of allowing a plane load of people to disturb their fellow passengers with hours of mindless chatter.

I love these incredibly silly "deductions".

So conversations between two passengers on a plane, be it mindless chatter or discussions about ending world hunger, have been disallowed? I'm waiting to hear the announcement about "please cease all conversations for the next 12 hours, if you need anything please use sign language."

As if one person talking, be it on a phone or to their seat-mate, is somehow "different".

In the U.S. we can use our cellphones to make voice calls as soon as the plane touches down on the runway.

Unless the aircraft is outfitted with specialized communications or antenna equipment, traditional cell phones will not work if above ~ 5,000 feet, assuming there is a cell tower below/nearby.

Taking off from swampy on etihad flight the whole plane was shaking

And the pilot announced please check your devices if on.

We're getting a lot of interference up here. :-)

Calling BS on this one. If the pilot was experiencing stability issues on climb out I suspect he would have a lot more on his mind than making a silly plea for help from the passengers. What were they supposed to do? Get out of their seats, pull down their bags, look for their cell phones? Sheesh.

still think 100% no risk?

Yes. Take-offs and landings are of course the riskiest portions of any flight, but cell phones, watches, cameras, on-board electronics, pacemakers, hearing aids, insulin pumps, pain pumps, oxygen tanks, etc. etc. etc. will not cause your plane to crash. Weather and pilot error may be the primary concerns?

Edited May 4, 2014 by lomatopo

[Langsuan Man]

So conversations between two passengers on a plane, be it mindless chatter or discussions about ending world hunger, have been disallowed? I'm waiting to hear the announcement about "please cease all conversations for the next 12 hours, if you need anything please use sign language."

As if one person talking, be it on a phone or to their seat-mate, is somehow "different".

In the U.S. we can use our cellphones to make voice calls as soon as the plane touches down on the runway.

Unless the aircraft is outfitted with specialized communications or antenna equipment, traditional cell phones will not work if above ~ 5,000 feet, assuming there is a cell tower below/nearby.

These are not silly "deductions" but have been verified by numerous passenger surveys conducted by both airlines and the FCC

When you are talking to a fellow passenger or even to another person on the ground if you are too loud they will say something. Not going to happen on a cell phone

Using your cell phone once you are on the ground is only going to be for a few minutes, not a couple of hours like on a flight

[lomatopo]

These are not silly "deductions" but have been verified by numerous passenger surveys conducted by both airlines and the FCC

Of course it's silly, you just didn't think through your (non) logic.

Feel free to post or link to these "...numerous surveys".

I think that while "Kettles" (in-frequent fliers) might be against using cell phones in flight, heck, they probably don't have one of them new fangled gadgets yet, most passenger want to be able to use their cell phones in flight, if only for data (email chat, text). (note that some airlines which currently offer WiFi on aircraft block VoIP apps.)

Conversations among passengers seated next to each other, or between a passenger and someone one the ground say by using a current in-plane sat. phone, are the same volume owing to the ambient noise. Sometimes people complain about chatty seatmates, or loudly snoring passengers, what can you do? Still not understanding how my experience is different if my seatmate is talking to his seatmate, or to someone on a phone? OK, maybe I only hear 50% of the conversation.

Net-net, I think that airlines/service providers will be charging a premium for in-flight use - given the need for additional equipment, so it may not ultimately be a huge "social engineering" issue?

I understand it is natural to fear the unknown, but maybe you should be worrying about real problems?

Why in-flight cell calls are nothing to dread

You're wrong, business travelers. If you truly value the productivity of your in-flight time, you do want the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to lift its ban against in-flight calls using mobile devices.

As you already know thanks to an orgy of (mostly) incomplete news-media coverage and (mostly) stale late-night talk-show jokes, the FCC is moving with bureaucratic alacrity to rescind its 1991 prohibition on in-flight calls. The matter could be clarified next week when a report that recommends lifting the ban is presented to FCC Commissioners.

The sentiment against in-flight calling has already spawned a petition at WhiteHouse.gov. The nation's flight attendants are already lighting torches and sharpening pitch forks. And even FCC chairman Tom Wheeler has acknowledged the opposition. "We understand that many passengers would prefer that voice calls not be made on airplanes. I feel that way myself," he says.

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2013/12/case-for-fcc-mobile-devices.html?page=all

Again, addressing the OP's questions:

- there is no danger.

- if you feel your safety is being compromised inform a member of the flight crew regarding your issue(s).

Edited May 4, 2014 by lomatopo

[Langsuan Man]

The danger might be from the 'air rage' from my sitting next to you having to listen to a one sided conversation for several hours

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JLCrab]

http://www.jsonline.com/features/travel/business-group-opposes-cellphone-calls-on-planes-b99237907z1-253943681.html

Business group opposes cellphone calls on planes

Edited May 4, 2014 by JLCrab

[maibork]

Fbp

Mu

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[lomatopo]

The danger might be from the 'air rage' from my sitting next to you having to listen to a one sided conversation for several hours

Are you prone to flying into fits of rage?

Danger for you maybe. I suspect you'd get a phone stuffed down your gabbing pie-hole.

But seriously, why jump right to air rage? Why not just have a civil conversation with your seat-mate?

Business group opposes cellphone calls on planes

The group, which represents about 6,000 travel managers, called on-board calls "detrimental to business travelers."

This could be related to cost controls, and/or corporate security concerns? Travel managers, amazingly enough, rarely travel, but they love to tell everyone what to do.

Business travelers might not want to be reachable by their boss/irate customer?

Seriously, asking someone if they want to be seated next to someone who talks on their phone for the entire flight is about the same as asking if they want to be seated next to a morbidly obese person overflowing into their seat. Or asking a four year old girl if she wants a unicorn. The answers will be skewed.

[Mrjlh]

Try this next time. When the person sitting next to you starts talking on their cell, start answering them as if they were talking to you. When they get annoyed just repeat, "Yep, it is very annoying isn't it?"

[lomatopo]

Try this next time. When the person sitting next to you starts talking on their cell, start answering them as if they were talking to you. When they get annoyed just repeat, "Yep, it is very annoying isn't it?"

Do you suggest doing this everywhere? On a train? Or just a plane? (starting to sound like Dr. Seuss)

Do you do this often? How has it worked out for you? I can just hear the conversation now, "what, oh nothing, just some crazy person sitting next to me talking to his imaginary friend."

I would just ignore the conversation, as I do for most uninteresting "noise", and go back to reading, listening to music, watching a video.

[JLCrab]

From Federal Register request for Comments (Comment period now closed):

Under the Department of Transportation's (FAA) aviation consumer protection authority, we are seeking comment on whether voice calls on aircraft constitute an unfair practice to consumers pursuant to 49 U.S.C. 41712, and/or are inconsistent with adequate air transportation pursuant to 49 U.S.C. 41702, and if so whether such calls should be banned or restricted (e.g., not allow voice calls at night time).

(Excerpt) The Association of Flight Attendants filed a comment and replied that voice over internet or cellular broadband should be banned to reduce in-flight disruptions, noting that most flight attendants and travelers find objectionable the possibility of numerous simultaneous voice calls.

Delta Air Lines also filed a comment stating that 64 percent of its passengers indicated that the ability to make phone calls in flight would have a negative impact on the onboard experience.

Note: I would have posted a comment favoring inflight use in the Federal Register notice but there weren't any.

Edited May 4, 2014 by JLCrab

[Mrjlh]

Try this next time. When the person sitting next to you starts talking on their cell, start answering them as if they were talking to you. When they get annoyed just repeat, "Yep, it is very annoying isn't it?"

Do you suggest doing this everywhere? On a train? Or just a plane? (starting to sound like Dr. Seuss)

Do you do this often? How has it worked out for you? I can just hear the conversation now, "what, oh nothing, just some crazy person sitting next to me talking to his imaginary friend."

I would just ignore the conversation, as I do for most uninteresting "noise", and go back to reading, listening to music, watching a video.

Actually, in your case, I would be arresting you for violation of a Federal law (of course only if it was in the US and extends to foreign countries if the flight originates from the states.), which is failure to comply to a lawful order of a flight attendant and disruption of Flight services. And because you ignored me I would probably take a very long time processing the paper work further delaying your trip. I did a short stent as an Air Marshall now happily retired with no desire to return.

So to answer your question, only one an airplane when the conversation becomes annoying not only to me but to people around you. On buses, trains, etc, not much you can do it. There are no laws. Live and let live.

But it is fun to see the different reactions of people around you. You need a sense of humor plus being someone who is fairly large and can handle themselves in a situation doesn't hurt. I'm not easily intimidated. I also find most people raise their voice on a cell phone as if the other person can't hear you.

Currently, FCC is trying to decide on lifting the ban. But popular opinion is to keep it in place because people want a quiet ride while in an enclosed space. Two, cell phones do not operate above 10,000 ft. unless the A/C is equipped with a repeater or specialized equipment. They need a cell tower within range plus traveling at 300MPH or more makes it extremely difficult for a cell phone to make a connection with any tower. So why even turn it on? On the ground, the concern is a cell phone could interfere with ground control operations. So do you want the pilot not hear the order to stop and an another A/C runs into you or visa-versa? Your conceded self indulgence may cost the lives of innocent people.

So why not just go with the flow? Oh, I know you are better than us.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Mrjlh

[lomatopo]

Actually, in your case, I would be arresting you for violation of a Federal law

Sorry, what Federal law has someone violated by talking on their cell phone either while the door is still open, or after the plane has touched down (in the U.S.)?

Originally you were yapping on about "next time try this...", which seemed fairly juvenile. Now you've jumped to arresting people. Good thing you're retired.

So why not just go with the flow?

I do. I fly a fair amount, ~ 100,000 BiS miles per year, and ~ 3 million BiS lifetime miles. I pay extra attention to all flight crew instructions, and try to be a good seat-mate. I rarely make calls from the plane, mainly for privacy reasons. That said, I don't get upset if someone else is talking, loudly or otherwise, to their seat-mate, or on their phone.

But popular opinion is to keep it in place because people want a quiet ride while in an enclosed space.

Then maybe consider a ban on all conversations?

On the ground, the concern is a cell phone could interfere with ground control operations.

Well this is bunk. There are people in the airport, near the airport, workers at the airport, people in cars near the airport all using cell phones. In the U.S. we can use cell phones on the plane before the door is closed, and as soon as the plane touches down. Obviously if there were any concerns about "interfering with ground control operations" this would not be allowed.

Edited May 4, 2014 by lomatopo

[JLCrab]

Also from the DOT/FAA Federal Register Notice:

Delta Air Lines publicly stated it will not permit voice calls regardless of what the government allows, citing ‘‘overwhelming sentiment’’ to keep the ban in place. JetBlue Airways and United Airlines have also indicated that they intend to keep the ban on calls in place.

[lomatopo]

Also from the DOT/FAA Federal Register Notice:

Delta Air Lines publicly stated it will not permit voice calls regardless of what the government allows, citing ‘‘overwhelming sentiment’’ to keep the ban in place. JetBlue Airways and United Airlines have also indicated that they intend to keep the ban on calls in place.

I think this is a bit of a tempest in a tea-pot. There were probably similar concerns raised when public telephones were first introduced, back nineteen and ought five?

It will be interesting to see if airlines - and not flight attendants - maintain their reluctance once they realize they'll be able to make some extra cash providing the service, and appeal to high value flyers?

[Shurup]

Try this next time. When the person sitting next to you starts talking on their cell, start answering them as if they were talking to you. When they get annoyed just repeat, "Yep, it is very annoying isn't it?"

This reminded me of a good old joke about a guy answering another guy's questions while sitting in a toilet in a stall next to him.

[JLCrab]

At least as regards US-based carriers they may not have a choice. Again from FedReg 24 FEB 2014:

- On December 12, 2013, Senator Diane Feinstein and Senator Lamar Alexander introduced legislation, titled Commercial Flight Courtesy Act, to ban cell phone conversations on commercial airline flights, but permit the use of texting and other electronic communication, pending FCC approval.

- That same week, Rep. Bill Shuster introduced a bill, Prohibiting In-Flight Voice Communications on Mobile Wireless Devices Act of 2013, to prohibit in-flight voice communications, but permit other types of electronic communication.

But you can always fly to Boston on Emirates and listen to someone's phone conversation in Arabic.

[Shurup]

I was once on a domestic USA flight where -- after repeatedly asking a guy to turn off his laptop computer -- the flight attendant said: I'm not going to ask you again; I will just arrange for security to be at our gate upon landing.

Regardless of whether it is a navigation hazard in the air or with ground control, it is a civil offense in the USA to disobey the instructions of a flight attendant or any other flight personnel.

"As part of the FAA's Reauthorization Bill (April 16, 2000) FAA can propose up to $25,000 per violation for unruly passenger cases." From FAA.gov

There must be a set of rules the flight attendants need/try to enforce. They can't just go around making up silly rules and complain about people not wanting to follow them?

I've met some pretty annoying flight attendants in my travels.

In one case the flight attendant asked me to turn off my iPod once I was sited, and that with me being one of the 1st passengers on the plane (I'm a star alliance gold member and take advantage of Priority Boarding). First I ignored her but as she continued to insist, I pointed out that people are still boarding and I said I would turn it off when I hear pilot's announcement. She left me alone after that but keep giving me an evil look every time she passed me.

In few other occasions I was asked to remove my noise canceling headphones from around my neck, I usually keep them there and put them on after the take off. Didn't argue with her then, just wanted that annoying woman off my face.

[JLCrab]

All I've done regarding the in-flight telephone issue is to cite a Federal Register document and reference a newspaper report of a professional organization in their comments to the DOT/FAA request.

Personally I really don't care -- my modus operandi these days is to fly as little as possible.

[Shurup]

Going back on topic - most of the electronic devices are never truly off unless you pull the battery out. I always put my phone into the flying mode when I fly, not because I think it's dangerous for the airplane, but simply because being out of the network coverage your mobile would keep searching for the network, which would drain the battery quite fast, and there's no signal up at 30K feet anyways. If the battery stays inside the phone, there's no difference whether the screen is off or on.

I do however believe there might be some interference with the radio equipment from energized electronic equipment.

On my road trip through Yukon and Alaska back in 2012, I used Cobra brand walkie talkie with my wife every time we stopped somewhere to go on a ATV and Dirtbike rides through the country. I've noticed if I placed my mobile (which was in a flight mode anyways) or other electronics near the radio, it would start making weird noises. I had to be placed really near the radio for the interference to occur within 5-10". Looking at the airplane - nobody really sits in this proximity to the plane's receiver/transmitter, but plane's electronic is a lot more sensitive...

[Shurup]

For those of you complaining about other's talking etc. get a pair of noise cancelling headphones. They do a great job of muting those annoying baby crying and jet engine noises as well as others voices. Cheap investment for one's comfort.

[Payboy]

For those of you complaining about other's talking etc. get a pair of noise cancelling headphones. They do a great job of muting those annoying baby crying and jet engine noises as well as others voices. Cheap investment for one's comfort.

I always punch the parents and make them cry louder. Drowns out those irritating baby screams, always.

[Paul888]

Air travel. Where the world's most annoying people are locked in a confined space with the world's most easily annoyed people.

[stickylies]

please cease all conversations for the next 12 hours

"We remind you that this is a non-talking flight. Talking is prohibited on the entire aircraft, including the lavatories.”

I kinda like that!