Yingluck bids farewell to officials and the public

[ianf]

How many times do we have to say that Democracy is not just about elections. It's about the process. It's about the rule of law. Even Hun Sen in Cambodia had elections! Does that make Cambodia - a one-party state - democratic? During PTP's first elections they did five things that I consider highly undemocratic:

1. They demonised Abhisit by tearing his face out of most of the posters that were errected by the Democratic Party and made clearly dishonest accusations about Abhisit throughout the election campaign.

2. They had no policies but clear bribes that were uncosted and certainly not thought through. There was no policy on offer whatsoever.

3. They did not allow the Democratic Party to campaign in areas that they believe to be their own territory. ie the Democrats were denied a voice in large swathes of the country.

4. They made it clear that Thaksin was in control: Remember he is a fugitive on the run without a Thai passport during that time.

5. They set up red villages and so-called democracy schools, that were designed to control people rather than educate them. Within those villages people were warned about voting for the opposition and many people voted for PTP under duress and some have told me that they were scared to vote any other way.

So when people are asking for reforms and democratic elections they are asking for people to be free to vote without any duress and to campaign in every part of the country quite freely. I think that's a minimum requirement. Otherwise voting is a sham. This post just sets out the facts. It supports neither red nor 'yellow'.

[ianf]

Look at the original post num-nuts.

She was elected by the Thai people.

Her party won 53% of the seats in the 2011 election with her as the leader.

53% of the SEATS.

Not 53% of the popular vote.

The peanut comment stands proven correct.

Look at the figures I provided, you num-nut.

It shows PT won 44.38% of votes casts and on the end of the line 265 seats.

One correction though. Her brother Thaksin's party won a majority in the elections. Probably just to show that in a real democracy a criminal fugitive can still rule a country from afar.

You still don't get it.

One last try.

Can you muster all your intellect together and answer one simple question.

What % of the seats did PTP win in the 2011 election?

I will give you one hint, a little clue to help you as you will inevitably get stumped.

The answer is 53%.

It doesn't matter how many seats you win. That's not the issue. The issue is democracy. See my other post.

[ThaiBob]

Remember the murder of the red shirts as ordered by Abhisit and Suthep

Which murders were those ?.......don't remember Abhisit and Suthep being convicted of murder in a court of law ?

Google it, court dates still pending. Stories were every where.

So what your saying is they haven't been convicted of anything by a court ?......but yet here you are stating that they ordered murders

not sure what country you come from, maybe your from North Korea, but where I come from, one is not guilty of anything until one is CONVICTED by a COURT OF LAW....

So your not posting anything factual, and what you have posted borders on being libelous, by suggesting that standing government officials, one of whom, happened to the PM ordered, in their official capacities, the pre-meditated murder of people

The language is that of all the press reports. No he is not convicted of anything, only charged and indicted for murder and posted bail along with his buddy in criminal court and got an extension for charges by the NAAC. You don't have to pull the trigger yourself for murder, think Nuremburg. Will he be convicted, no. The NAAC and CC have a bias against the PT and protect the old order (royalist, yellow shirts). Who do you think appointed the NAAC and CC? The CC, NAAC and Senate have a cozy relationship appointing each other and you remember what happened when a few Senators suggested having an elected Senate.

[doctorproc156]

There is a difference between 'unseen source' and 'unknown source', the reason I said that was to highlight how brazen the Abhisit administration was on eradicating the protesters compared to the Reds who only resorted to surprise grenade attacks and the 'black shirt' hidden soldiers. This really shows which side is more powerful even though the majority of the population voted for PTP. And although Thaksin would probably like to gain full state power, I think he is smart enough to realize that it is a suicide mission as long as the privy council has control over the military and the judiciary. Most of the talk about Thaksin wanting to create a republic is pure fear mongering from the PDRC in order to demonize him as being against the monarchy. The infrastructure bill is absolutely critical for Thailand to progress into the next stage of development. Even if borrowing 2.2 trillion at a single time was too much and outside the boundaries of the constitution, the PDRC should at the very least provide a solution on how they are going to implement the infrastructure upgrades year by year and how they are going to solve the crisis. They are doing absolutely nothing except going on a lese majeste witch hunt and calling for absolute monarchy.

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

Edited May 8, 2014 by anantha92

[DrDweeb]

There is a difference between 'unseen source' and 'unknown source', the reason I said that was to highlight how brazen the Abhisit administration was on eradicating the protesters compared to the Reds who only resorted to surprise grenade attacks and the 'black shirt' hidden soldiers. This really shows which side is more powerful even though the majority of the population voted for PTP. And although Thaksin would probably like to gain full state power, I think he is smart enough to realize that it is a suicide mission as long as the privy council has control over the military and the judiciary. Most of the talk about Thaksin wanting to create a republic is pure fear mongering from the PDRC in order to demonize him as being against the monarchy. The infrastructure bill is absolutely critical for Thailand to progress into the next stage of development. Even if borrowing 2.2 trillion at a single time was too much and outside the boundaries of the constitution, the PDRC should at the very least provide a solution on how they are going to implement the infrastructure upgrades year by year and how they are going to solve the crisis. They are doing absolutely nothing except going on a lese majeste witch hunt and calling for absolute monarchy.

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

Edited May 8, 2014 by DrDweeb

[ThaiBob]

There is a difference between 'unseen source' and 'unknown source', the reason I said that was to highlight how brazen the Abhisit administration was on eradicating the protesters compared to the Reds who only resorted to surprise grenade attacks and the 'black shirt' hidden soldiers. This really shows which side is more powerful even though the majority of the population voted for PTP. And although Thaksin would probably like to gain full state power, I think he is smart enough to realize that it is a suicide mission as long as the privy council has control over the military and the judiciary. Most of the talk about Thaksin wanting to create a republic is pure fear mongering from the PDRC in order to demonize him as being against the monarchy. The infrastructure bill is absolutely critical for Thailand to progress into the next stage of development. Even if borrowing 2.2 trillion at a single time was too much and outside the boundaries of the constitution, the PDRC should at the very least provide a solution on how they are going to implement the infrastructure upgrades year by year and how they are going to solve the crisis. They are doing absolutely nothing except going on a lese majeste witch hunt and calling for absolute monarchy.

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

I thought we have concluded that 44% was the popular vote and 53% was the parliamentary vote for PT, in either case it was a landslide victory for PT.

[ThaiBob]

There is a difference between 'unseen source' and 'unknown source', the reason I said that was to highlight how brazen the Abhisit administration was on eradicating the protesters compared to the Reds who only resorted to surprise grenade attacks and the 'black shirt' hidden soldiers. This really shows which side is more powerful even though the majority of the population voted for PTP. And although Thaksin would probably like to gain full state power, I think he is smart enough to realize that it is a suicide mission as long as the privy council has control over the military and the judiciary. Most of the talk about Thaksin wanting to create a republic is pure fear mongering from the PDRC in order to demonize him as being against the monarchy. The infrastructure bill is absolutely critical for Thailand to progress into the next stage of development. Even if borrowing 2.2 trillion at a single time was too much and outside the boundaries of the constitution, the PDRC should at the very least provide a solution on how they are going to implement the infrastructure upgrades year by year and how they are going to solve the crisis. They are doing absolutely nothing except going on a lese majeste witch hunt and calling for absolute monarchy.

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

I thought we have concluded that 44% was the popular vote and 53% was the parliamentary vote for PT, in either case it was a landslide victory for PT.

[ginjag]

It doesn't matter how many seats you win. That's not the issue. The issue is democracy. See my other post.

It kinda does matter how many seats you win.

In fact the whole system hinges on the fact of how many seats each party wins.

I don't think any amount of drivel from any of your other posts negates this fact.

Control more than 50% of the seats in the lower house and you are the government.

Thai democracy works just fine.

The only ones who think otherwise are those looking for excuses for their own electoral unpopularity.

Your really into your own little silly fantasy world trying to justify that x number of seats more than the next justifies diabolical plundering of a country.

So live with you over 50% seats forget your minority votes, unable to carry on unless you formed a coalition of trough feeders.

The fact you WANT to overlook is the democratic governing NOT.

winning demo elections NEVER gives any government the right to govern against the law and constitution. YOUR wonderful lot full of control freaks thought they could pull it off, BUT the bent Suthep highlighted the facts and the BENT courts convicted.

To highlight and convict makes everyone BENT and your stupid brain dead gov untouchable------but they found out different.

Sorry your not getting many supporters as their numbers on forum have dwindled.

[ginjag]

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

I thought we have concluded that 44% was the popular vote and 53% was the parliamentary vote for PT, in either case it was a landslide victory for PT.

Picking the word Landslide from PTP red propaganda etc, makes it sound like a wipe out. NOT. landslides NORMALLY signal a unstoppable movement of Whatever----but this land fill lot found the landslide was NOT enough.

Democratic governance is the key NOT winning demo elections.

[SheungWan]

I thought we have concluded that 44% was the popular vote and 53% was the parliamentary vote for PT, in either case it was a landslide victory for PT.

Not quite landslide but begs the question why the PTP threw away its majority to implement a programme of policies (whatever they might have been) to create a crisis over an Amnesty Bill to benefit one man, Thaksin Shinawatra. Irresponsibility of the highest order, but that has been the mark of the man. Plus the dead weight that has to be carried by the red cheerleaders. An impossible task but I am sure you are doing your best.

[ThaiBob]

Yingluck had her faults like any person and politician but she did her best under trying circumstances. She was just too nice. Do you think Abhisit and/or Suthep would have tolerated the antigovernment protests and the obstruction of the elections the way she did? (Remember the murder of the red shirts as ordered by Abhisit and Suthep) And what about the corruption charges leveled by Suthep, who according to the Wiki leaks cables is one of Thailand's most corrupt politicians (the sale of MP's went through him when the Democrats were in charge and don't forget the Phuket land scandal that forced his government to resign). YL made some serious blunders, yes(the amnesty proposal) but it is for the people to vote her out.

Short memory span there Bob,reds occupied Bangkok for 10 months and threatened to burn it,which they started to do.It is the govts right to put down insurection.They were told to leave and buses were provided.Violence begats violence.It is up to the courts to decide if she is corrupt or not,not the people.If she is back in 5 years,the people can vote her in again,but i doubt she will sign up for the job again.Do some charity work and try and gain some face.

Fact check. The red shirts started public demonstrators in March of 2010 and were gunned down that May. They were protesting for new elections and against the judicial coup by this same CC. Compare that to the fascist Suthep and his mob taking over Bangkok beginning last November till today, closing government offices, barricading streets, denying people to exercise their right to vote.

[ThaiBob]

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

I thought we have concluded that 44% was the popular vote and 53% was the parliamentary vote for PT, in either case it was a landslide victory for PT.

Picking the word Landslide from PTP red propaganda etc, makes it sound like a wipe out. NOT. landslides NORMALLY signal a unstoppable movement of Whatever----but this land fill lot found the landslide was NOT enough.

Democratic governance is the key NOT winning demo elections.

You can't govern without first winning.

> 10% a landslide

> 20% a slaughter

[AleG]

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

Furthermore, not all that voted for PTP are Red Shirts, so the tedious mantra of "The Red Shirts are the majority" that some spout here is just a blatant lie.

The only poll I've seen on Red Shirt membership put them at 14% of those polled (split between 7% Reds and 7% sympathetic with the movement), and that was at their heyday on 2010. Today I shouldn't wonder if that number is significantly lower after being stabbed in the back with the Amnesty Bill and the hardships from the failed Rice Scheme.

Not surprisingly at all those that like to inflate their egos claiming the Red Shirts represent the majority of the people in the country never, ever, produce any actual figures to support the claim.

[gangrel]

Fact check. The red shirts started public demonstrators in March of 2010

Fact check. The red shirts started violent public demonstrations in July of 2007

[ginjag]

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

I thought we have concluded that 44% was the popular vote and 53% was the parliamentary vote for PT, in either case it was a landslide victory for PT.

Picking the word Landslide from PTP red propaganda etc, makes it sound like a wipe out. NOT. landslides NORMALLY signal a unstoppable movement of Whatever----but this land fill lot found the landslide was NOT enough.

Democratic governance is the key NOT winning demo elections.

You can't govern without first winning.

> 10% a landslide

> 20% a slaughter

No point is there with all this % BS BECAUSE they failed to govern, now it's a LANDSLIDE out -quicker than getting in

[ThaiBob]

Fact check. The red shirts started public demonstrators in March of 2010

Fact check. The red shirts started violent public demonstrations in July of 2007

For the record, my comment was to clarify an incorrect post of a red shirt occupation of 10 months. The red shirts or better, UDD, ally themselves with PTP. Yes, in 2007 they were protesting against the military government, the military coup and the 2007 military's constitution. Their protests ended with the election of the PPP(future PTP) in 2007.

[gangrel]

Fact check. The red shirts started public demonstrators in March of 2010

Fact check. The red shirts started violent public demonstrations in July of 2007

Yes, in 2007 they were protesting against the military government

Indeed, the red shirts held violent demonstrations against the government in 2007 and again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2009 and once again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2010.

They are the undisputed champions of violence.

[ThaiBob]

Fact check. The red shirts started public demonstrators in March of 2010

Fact check. The red shirts started violent public demonstrations in July of 2007

Yes, in 2007 they were protesting against the military government

Indeed, the red shirts held violent demonstrations against the government in 2007 and again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2009 and once again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2010.

They are the undisputed champions of violence.

Do not necessarily agree with your wording but it is difficult to defend violence of any kind even if seemingly justified. I do not defend red shirt violence as I do not defend yellow shirt (PAD) violence as in 2008-9 with the seizure of the Government House and the forced closure and siege of airports throughout the country with the disruption of tourism and businesses. Of course, this orchestrated yellow shirt violence brought down another elected government, the PPP.

[SheungWan]

Yingluck had her faults like any person and politician but she did her best under trying circumstances. She was just too nice. Do you think Abhisit and/or Suthep would have tolerated the antigovernment protests and the obstruction of the elections the way she did? (Remember the murder of the red shirts as ordered by Abhisit and Suthep) And what about the corruption charges leveled by Suthep, who according to the Wiki leaks cables is one of Thailand's most corrupt politicians (the sale of MP's went through him when the Democrats were in charge and don't forget the Phuket land scandal that forced his government to resign). YL made some serious blunders, yes(the amnesty proposal) but it is for the people to vote her out.

Short memory span there Bob,reds occupied Bangkok for 10 months and threatened to burn it,which they started to do.It is the govts right to put down insurection.They were told to leave and buses were provided.Violence begats violence.It is up to the courts to decide if she is corrupt or not,not the people.If she is back in 5 years,the people can vote her in again,but i doubt she will sign up for the job again.Do some charity work and try and gain some face.

Fact check. The red shirts started public demonstrators in March of 2010 and were gunned down that May. They were protesting for new elections and against the judicial coup by this same CC. Compare that to the fascist Suthep and his mob taking over Bangkok beginning last November till today, closing government offices, barricading streets, denying people to exercise their right to vote.

Whatever the above is, it isn't a fact check. The demonstrators organised by Arisman and the red leadership came to Bangkok to burn it down. Arisman announced it publicly. The whole strategy was persistent ratcheting up of violence punctuated by the men in black, M79 grenade attacks and culminating in the setting fire of buildings. Please don't insult us with the demand for an election canard. An election was sheduled and negotiations had reached an agreement to push it forward to November, but that wasn't good enough for Thaksin who didn't expect an agreement to be made and unleashed his favourite renegade army leader who got a bullet in the head for his troubles. What Thaksin and Arisman wanted was to bring down the government and set terms according to Thaksin. The government in power was formed from the DP and renegades from the Thaksin alliance and MPs were as elected as the MPs who formed the PT governments following the coup. As usual here never ever expect a red supporter to tell any version of the truth. They don't know the meaning of the word. Check. Edited May 9, 2014 by SheungWan

[srsv1238]

Such grace, Thailand had never seen. Farewell, but this is not good bye. We expect to see more of her soon.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[doctorproc156]

There is a difference between 'unseen source' and 'unknown source', the reason I said that was to highlight how brazen the Abhisit administration was on eradicating the protesters compared to the Reds who only resorted to surprise grenade attacks and the 'black shirt' hidden soldiers. This really shows which side is more powerful even though the majority of the population voted for PTP. And although Thaksin would probably like to gain full state power, I think he is smart enough to realize that it is a suicide mission as long as the privy council has control over the military and the judiciary. Most of the talk about Thaksin wanting to create a republic is pure fear mongering from the PDRC in order to demonize him as being against the monarchy. The infrastructure bill is absolutely critical for Thailand to progress into the next stage of development. Even if borrowing 2.2 trillion at a single time was too much and outside the boundaries of the constitution, the PDRC should at the very least provide a solution on how they are going to implement the infrastructure upgrades year by year and how they are going to solve the crisis. They are doing absolutely nothing except going on a lese majeste witch hunt and calling for absolute monarchy.

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

Yes I agree I should have said majority of those who voted and not population. Regardless, who asked the PDRC supporters not to vote? Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP? Isn't that what a democracy is all about? Winning the hearts of the majority so they vote for your party. Is it the PTP supporters fault that the others didn't vote and instead want an un-elected council to be put into place through their influence over the military and Privy council? And anyway the government in power is a coalition government which consists of Pheu Thai Party (265 seats), Chartthaipattana Party (19 seats), Chart Pattana Puea Pandin Party (7 seats), Phalang Chon Party (7 seats), Mahachon Party (1 seat) and New Democrat Party (1 seat). This means that 54% of the voters in 2011 voted for the PTP led coalition government and they control 60% of parliament.

Edited May 9, 2014 by anantha92

[SheungWan]

Such grace, Thailand had never seen. Farewell, but this is not good bye. We expect to see more of her soon.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

'Grace' as in the lipstick on Thaksin's pig.

[AleG]

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

You have got to be kidding me... Who asked the PDRC supporters not to vote? Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP? Isn't that what a democracy is all about? Winning the hearts of the majority so they vote for your party. Is it the PTP supporters fault that the others didn't vote and instead want an un-elected council to be put into place through their influence over the military and Privy council? And anyway the government in power is a coalition government which consists of Pheu Thai Party (265 seats), Chartthaipattana Party (19 seats), Chart Pattana Puea Pandin Party (7 seats), Phalang Chon Party (7 seats), Mahachon Party (1 seat) and New Democrat Party (1 seat). This means that 54% of the voters in 2011 voted for the PTP led coalition government and they control 60% of parliament.

Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP?

That would be the Red Shirts, always ready to intimidate and outright attack those that dare to exercise their right to free speech, like this:

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPAdhYMHXVY

or this:

Do you see a pattern? Is it possible to have free and fair elections like that?

[Bung]

Anyone remember those campaign stickers / decals of an animated, cute, smiling Yingluck that were everywhere?

I would love to see another one now, maybe with her walking along with her bags packed with money heading for a plane or something?

[doctorproc156]

Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP?

That would be the Red Shirts, always ready to intimidate and outright attack those that dare to exercise their right to free speech, like this:

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPAdhYMHXVY

or this:

Do you see a pattern? Is it possible to have free and fair elections like that?

Thank you for posting these videos, there could not have been a better answer to my question. No rambling, just pure hard and solid video evidence.

[Thaddeus]

Such grace, Thailand had never seen. Farewell, but this is not good bye. We expect to see more of her soon.

In a court room hopefully, but she will think its a shopping trip, so her first words will be "How much?"

A bit like her brother.

[DrDweeb]

Fact check. The red shirts started violent public demonstrations in July of 2007

Yes, in 2007 they were protesting against the military government

Indeed, the red shirts held violent demonstrations against the government in 2007 and again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2009 and once again held violent demonstrations against the government in 2010.

They are the undisputed champions of violence.

Do not necessarily agree with your wording but it is difficult to defend violence of any kind even if seemingly justified. I do not defend red shirt violence as I do not defend yellow shirt (PAD) violence as in 2008-9 with the seizure of the Government House and the forced closure and siege of airports throughout the country with the disruption of tourism and businesses. Of course, this orchestrated yellow shirt violence brought down another elected government, the PPP.

Speaking as someone who was physically in the airport at the time, I can assure you that there was no violence, and the atmosphere was jovial rather than tense, and for the departing passengers somewhat confusing. There was a severe shortage of reliable information after the airport and airline staff decamped.

I won't go into the tedious details, but suggesting (as you have done) that violence was involved in the occupation of the airport is inaccurate, it is an untruth - I know, because I was there!

You are a dissembler and a liar.

[DrDweeb]

The reds only resorted (only resorted!) to surprise greanade attacks and black shirt hidden soldiers! This has to be the most piss-poor excuse of the red violence I think I have read on this forum. Ludicrous red supporters just queuing up now. And as for the mealy-mouthed defence of Thaksin, it beggars belief. Re the infrastructure bill and everything else, all relegated to window-dressing for the Amnesty Bill which has been the sole focus of the past failed government. Fell on its sword. Voluntarily. Thaksin style.

You are looking at it in the wrong way, there is no right or wrong on both sides. Both are wrong and run by elites who are equally as corrupt and equally as power hungry. There is absolutely no excuse for grenade attacks and violence and I am not making any excuses for it. It is also quite disturbing that you can be so quick to discard the votes of the poor and rural populations as useless votes because you see these people as not knowing any better. The amnesty bill and rice subsidy bill were ridiculous but at least PTP had a plan to transfer the wealth from the Privy elites to the people, they did it in a way that is probably wrong and populist, but none the less at least they had the idea of supporting the poorest people. People have to wake up and realize that both sides are run by elites that plans to eventually screw the people in the end anyway. For over 30 years the poorest people in Thailand were robbed by the Privy council associated elites with the rice tax and it is about time someone started caring about the bottom 50% again. Of course I think that they should have spent the money to develop more technical schools and colleges and so on. The majority of the population voted for PTP and even though their policies may be populist, they had a strong and well thought out plan for Thailand's future infrastructure which I believe is the most important thing in this whole fiasco. More people voted for PTP and PTP deserves a chance to rule the government, call it a flaw in democracy or whatever but it is a fact. If the PDRC care so damn much about the Thai people, why don't they start with going to these rural areas and educating the people on why their administration would be a better choice and how they would implement the infrastructure bill within the bounds of the constitution. Instead they are calling for the Privy council to instigate a coup and install an un-elected council? If you truly believe PDRC is in the right then you really need to re-evaluate your views on how to fix Thailand's problems.

Thailand desperately needs a strong 3rd party, to end the clown show by both the PTP and the PDRC.

"he majority of the population voted for PTP"

This statement is provably false.

A majority of the population who voted, voted for PTP.

This is a very different thing, and misrepresenting the facts does nothing to add credibility to your post.

The figures are available and were osted previously.

About 34% of registered voters cast their vote Red in the previous election. The Reds do not have anything like a popular majority, and repetition of untruths will not alter the arithmetic.

Yes I agree I should have said majority of those who voted and not population. Regardless, who asked the PDRC supporters not to vote? Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP? Isn't that what a democracy is all about? Winning the hearts of the majority so they vote for your party. Is it the PTP supporters fault that the others didn't vote and instead want an un-elected council to be put into place through their influence over the military and Privy council? And anyway the government in power is a coalition government which consists of Pheu Thai Party (265 seats), Chartthaipattana Party (19 seats), Chart Pattana Puea Pandin Party (7 seats), Phalang Chon Party (7 seats), Mahachon Party (1 seat) and New Democrat Party (1 seat). This means that 54% of the voters in 2011 voted for the PTP led coalition government and they control 60% of parliament.

Conflation. Look it up. You would be crucified in formal debate.

Clearly, you are unable to recognise this, and I doubt explaining it to you would help.You could use some remedial math as well.

.

[doctorproc156]

Conflation. Look it up. You would be crucified in formal debate.

Clearly, you are unable to recognise this, and I doubt explaining it to you would help.You could use some remedial math as well.

.

Instead of trying to pigeonhole my comment with my apparent lack of debating ability, why don't you please try and argue with solid facts instead? What part of my math was wrong? Please enlighten me, I have an open mind and I love to be proven wrong and learn something new.

Edited May 10, 2014 by anantha92

[AleG]

Who told them they couldn't go to the rural areas and educate them on how the democrats would improve their infrastructure and livelihood and why they should vote for them instead of PTP?

That would be the Red Shirts, always ready to intimidate and outright attack those that dare to exercise their right to free speech, like this:

or this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPAdhYMHXVY

or this:

Do you see a pattern? Is it possible to have free and fair elections like that?

Thank you for posting these videos, there could not have been a better answer to my question. No rambling, just pure hard and solid video evidence.

Thanks; to add to that post, this actions are official UDD policy as outlined here:

UDD Proposals and Objectives from the Sounding of the Battle Drum Congress in Korat

...

7. Set up rally and gathering in metropolitan regions of Bangkok to pressure PDRC from protesting freely

UDD Proposals and Objectives from the Sounding of the Battle Drum Congress in Korat - See more at: http://thairedshirts.org/2014/02/25/udd-proposals-and-objectives-from-the-sounding-of-the-battle-drum-congress-in-korat/#comment-43052