What's up at Gymkhana?

[JohnLee]

Talk of racism, a couple of fisticuffs on the tee boxes, public accusations by a member of corruption involving the committee, leaking of members personal financial details by office staff, the Golf Committee resigns, Webmaster quits, Golf Handicapping system collapses, regular golf competitions aborted and now a bunch of Thai members are calling for an EGM (details not yet confirmed). In the latest minutes, of a rare committee meeting, it was stated "General atmosphere has become weird between Thai and foreign members as if they do not talk to each other". Has the committee lost the plot? Apparently not, it seems that once the new loos are complete all will be forgotten...and forgiven? "Roll-on the annual election" a member told me, "maybe the new committee can sort the mess out and put this historical club back in the limelight for all the good reasons it deserves and not for the horror stories of late".

JL

[PostmanPat]

I have played golf at Gymkhana on and off for ten years and underneath the apparently tranquil setting there has always been a seething mess of politics going on. I believe the latest mess was to do with the course being very busy in high season and certain people ( I am told predominantly Japanese and Thai) behaving very selfishly by not wanting to allow new starters onto the course at the first tee box (this is a nine hole course so new starters have to be filtered in with those who have already played nine holes).

Concepts such as allegations of corruption, the refusal of various committees to accept any form of modernisation/ new ideas to improve the place, etc etc etc, are almost like a microcosm of current Thai politics.....on and on and on and on, with little sign of change or improvement!

[gypsyrodeo]

they have also raised their prices 25 percent AGAIN for non members and the caddies they force on you aren't trained like they were years ago..these new ones don't know the difference between a driver and a putter..Never bother to ask which way the ball will roll on a green..they are uncanny in their ability to be wrong…also NEVER let them keep score for you if scoring means anything…scoring shouldn't mean anything at gymkhana because the cricket games in fairways etc. leaves too many ball placement issues in the hands of the incompetent caddies…the golf course should only be played with the frame of mind that you are getting practice for the day you play a real golf course..its just a huge expensive driving range with a horrible menu

[Thailand]

For the above,and other reasons, gave up playing there 3 years ago, I know I am not alone in that but doubt if I was missed!

[JohnLee]

they have also raised their prices 25 percent AGAIN for non members and the caddies they force on you aren't trained like they were years ago..these new ones don't know the difference between a driver and a putter..Never bother to ask which way the ball will roll on a green..they are uncanny in their ability to be wrong…also NEVER let them keep score for you if scoring means anything…scoring shouldn't mean anything at gymkhana because the cricket games in fairways etc. leaves too many ball placement issues in the hands of the incompetent caddies…the golf course should only be played with the frame of mind that you are getting practice for the day you play a real golf course..its just a huge expensive driving range with a horrible menu

Yes, I hear that is the concern of the 'rebels' who have requested an EGM. The substantial raise in the monthly subscriptions without any appreciative improvement in the facilities. The upgrading of the driving range and toilets etc are considered as popularity and vote catching maneuvers as part of the committees plan to secure re election and thereafter extend their tenure from 1 year to 2 years, with the main objective of building a hotel in the grounds. This idea was proposed the last time the main protagonists sat on the committee and was rejected by the members in a previous EGM.

JL

[Mapguy]

Fore!

OP, I find your posts quite one-sided and not reflective of the whole scene, let alone the progress that has been made at the club under the current committee. Actually, your post speaks for itself.

Over a period of several years, Gymkhana has become a place for golfers who don't have the wherewithal, sometimes the social graces, to join a more (usually much more) expensive club. It isn't what it used to be, and a reluctance to pay what is really necessary to maintain it properly has limited progress significantly.

Otherwise, there have recently been some unfortunate instances in which contending parties, both Thai and foreign, were unable to reach a gentlemanly solution on the course. That might actually reflect the cheap fees of the club and thus the type of individuals who are attracted to it by financial default. In any case, behavior among some has been unfortunately juvenile.

OP, you obviously have your knickers in a twist. Have you really reflected fully upon progress that has been made? No, you have not. You seem to be more intent on exacerbating some sort of pissing contest.

"What's up at Gymkhana?" Rather, you reflect what has been "down and difficult" to improve because of your attitude. And you, unfortunately, are certainly not the only one!

[Chiengmaijoe]

they have also raised their prices 25 percent AGAIN for non members and the caddies they force on you aren't trained like they were years ago..these new ones don't know the difference between a driver and a putter..Never bother to ask which way the ball will roll on a green..they are uncanny in their ability to be wrongalso NEVER let them keep score for you if scoring means anythingscoring shouldn't mean anything at gymkhana because the cricket games in fairways etc. leaves too many ball placement issues in the hands of the incompetent caddiesthe golf course should only be played with the frame of mind that you are getting practice for the day you play a real golf course..its just a huge expensive driving range with a horrible menu

Yes, I hear that is the concern of the 'rebels' who have requested an EGM. The substantial raise in the monthly subscriptions without any appreciative improvement in the facilities. The upgrading of the driving range and toilets etc are considered as popularity and vote catching maneuvers as part of the committees plan to secure re election and thereafter extend their tenure from 1 year to 2 years, with the main objective of building a hotel in the grounds. This idea was proposed the last time the main protagonists sat on the committee and was rejected by the members in a previous EGM.

JL

Monthly fees have been 600 baht for years so putting them up to 900 is not a big surprise. Since most members don't pay to play, 900 baht a month is a bargain. That's a big problem with the club, too many members that don't want to spend any money but expect too much.

[Loptr]

I assume something as simple as placing a starter on the 1st tee to assure everyone blends onto the course is out of the question.

[JohnLee]

Fore!

OP, I find your posts quite one-sided and not reflective of the whole scene, let alone the progress that has been made at the club under the current committee. Actually, your post speaks for itself.

Over a period of several years, Gymkhana has become a place for golfers who don't have the wherewithal, sometimes the social graces, to join a more (usually much more) expensive club. It isn't what it used to be, and a reluctance to pay what is really necessary to maintain it properly has limited progress significantly.

Otherwise, there have recently been some unfortunate instances in which contending parties, both Thai and foreign, were unable to reach a gentlemanly solution on the course. That might actually reflect the cheap fees of the club and thus the type of individuals who are attracted to it by financial default. In any case, behavior among some has been unfortunately juvenile.

OP, you obviously have your knickers in a twist. Have you really reflected fully upon progress that has been made? No, you have not. You seem to be more intent on exacerbating some sort of pissing contest.

"What's up at Gymkhana?" Rather, you reflect what has been "down and difficult" to improve because of your attitude. And you, unfortunately, are certainly not the only one!

If truth be told, I was expecting more fire and brimstone especially from you Mapguy! Maybe the lack and strength of counter arguments reflects the veracity of the comments above or maybe just an indication of the pissing against the wind syndrome so prevalent among the members. Nevertheless, appreciate your input.

[mesquite]

Fore!

OP, I find your posts quite one-sided and not reflective of the whole scene, let alone the progress that has been made at the club under the current committee. Actually, your post speaks for itself.

Over a period of several years, Gymkhana has become a place for golfers who don't have the wherewithal, sometimes the social graces, to join a more (usually much more) expensive club. It isn't what it used to be, and a reluctance to pay what is really necessary to maintain it properly has limited progress significantly.

Otherwise, there have recently been some unfortunate instances in which contending parties, both Thai and foreign, were unable to reach a gentlemanly solution on the course. That might actually reflect the cheap fees of the club and thus the type of individuals who are attracted to it by financial default. In any case, behavior among some has been unfortunately juvenile.

OP, you obviously have your knickers in a twist. Have you really reflected fully upon progress that has been made? No, you have not. You seem to be more intent on exacerbating some sort of pissing contest.

"What's up at Gymkhana?" Rather, you reflect what has been "down and difficult" to improve because of your attitude. And you, unfortunately, are certainly not the only one!

If truth be told, I was expecting more fire and brimstone especially from you Mapguy! Maybe the lack and strength of counter arguments reflects the veracity of the comments above or maybe just an indication of the pissing against the wind syndrome so prevalent among the members. Nevertheless, appreciate your input.

As you gain more experience, your trolls will attract more fire and brimstone.

[BillyBobThai]

As a non golf playing member, what is the course at Hang Dong like?

[Sparkles]

I have in the past taken visitors to the Gymkhana complex purely for its certain old world charm and its ambience ie the magnificent trees and feeling of an oasis amongst

the haphazard growth of the city. However the food is the restaurant is very ordinary and I seem to be constantly apologising for it to anyone I take there.

I know nothing of the politics and really don't wish to know but the Gymkhana Club ,in my opinion, has enormous potential if it can find its way out of its current predicament.

Leasing the restaurant out to a qualified ,innovative operator would be a start.

[MESmith]

Leasing the restaurant out to a qualified ,innovative operator would be a start.

How difficult is it to make cucumber sandwiches & mix a gin & tonic?

[ARISTIDE]

public accusations by a member of corruption involving the committee, leaking of members personal financial details by office staff, the Golf Committee resigns, Webmaster quits, Golf Handicapping system collapses,

Sounded more like characteristics of any Thai organization! I think it has nothing to do with the farangs involved! And don't let them play the racial card!

Edited May 9, 2014 by ARISTIDE

[beau thai]

As a non golf playing member, what is the course at Hang Dong like?

Similar to Gymkhana in my view but with less character.

In and around Chiang Mai you generally get what you pay for with golf. Alpine, Highlands, Royal and Mae Jo generally considered to be the best (in that order) and Lanna, Hang Dong and Gymkhana more cheap and cheerful. Oh, and some seem to prefer Green Valley to Mae Jo but I dont.

[PJcm]

I left the club in the early 90\s, that's when it was taken over by a group of lets say men with ulterior motives, Haven't been there over 20 years and my real hope is that one day in would be made into a public park, but sadly the writing is on the wall, Resort

[Mapguy]

Well, back to OP.

To be less polite than I was originally, I adamantly believe that his point of view is, well, just plain provocative in a childish way. I would not pick and choose, as he has, among items in the last minutes of the club, which really have no business being of general discussion on a public forum. I have all the minutes of this committee, and I have saved what sparse minutes there have been of previous committees.

The paucity of such minutes is understandable as they are produced in awkward English. If they were in Thai, would OP be able to read them? Why native-speaking English speakers on the committee haven't been able to deliver regular reports over the years is beyond me! They probably haven't cared very much.

The current committee of the club has been working quite effectively to sort out many problems which have plagued the club for years, and none of it has been in committee member self-interest. The committee has been working to solve many problems that should never have become problems in the first place, and they are doing a rather good job of it all told.

Yes, Gymkhana could be a much better club and the course could be much better, but the problems,which have festered over many years of inefficient committees, is a real challenge. The problems will not be sorted out easily. But what I have seen and continue to see is quite good progress --- including the solution of some really outrageous problems left unresolved by many previous committees.

OP's point of view, as expressed in his original post, is argumentative and juvenile. Just look at how he led off with a comment about racism. That's utterly absurd and certainly not constructive in any sense. Why do such complainants seem to crop up on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai? That doesn't solve anything. OPs point of view certainly doesn't.

I am not interested in arguing point-by-point in a public forum. I suggest that OP begin to be more helpful at the club.

[thaigolfer]

Well, back to OP.

To be less polite than I was originally, I adamantly believe that his point of view is, well, just plain provocative in a childish way. I would not pick and choose, as he has, among items in the last minutes of the club, which really have no business being of general discussion on a public forum. I have all the minutes of this committee, and I have saved what sparse minutes there have been of previous committees.

The paucity of such minutes is understandable as they are produced in awkward English. If they were in Thai, would OP be able to read them? Why native-speaking English speakers on the committee haven't been able to deliver regular reports over the years is beyond me! They probably haven't cared very much.

The current committee of the club has been working quite effectively to sort out many problems which have plagued the club for years, and none of it has been in committee member self-interest. The committee has been working to solve many problems that should never have become problems in the first place, and they are doing a rather good job of it all told.

Yes, Gymkhana could be a much better club and the course could be much better, but the problems,which have festered over many years of inefficient committees, is a real challenge. The problems will not be sorted out easily. But what I have seen and continue to see is quite good progress --- including the solution of some really outrageous problems left unresolved by many previous committees.

OP's point of view, as expressed in his original post, is argumentative and juvenile. Just look at how he led off with a comment about racism. That's utterly absurd and certainly not constructive in any sense. Why do such complainants seem to crop up on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai? That doesn't solve anything. OPs point of view certainly doesn't.

I am not interested in arguing point-by-point in a public forum. I suggest that OP begin to be more helpful at the club.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

Please be clear. We all want to know what's about.

[beau thai]

Well, back to OP.

To be less polite than I was originally, I adamantly believe that his point of view is, well, just plain provocative in a childish way. I would not pick and choose, as he has, among items in the last minutes of the club, which really have no business being of general discussion on a public forum. I have all the minutes of this committee, and I have saved what sparse minutes there have been of previous committees.

The paucity of such minutes is understandable as they are produced in awkward English. If they were in Thai, would OP be able to read them? Why native-speaking English speakers on the committee haven't been able to deliver regular reports over the years is beyond me! They probably haven't cared very much.

The current committee of the club has been working quite effectively to sort out many problems which have plagued the club for years, and none of it has been in committee member self-interest. The committee has been working to solve many problems that should never have become problems in the first place, and they are doing a rather good job of it all told.

Yes, Gymkhana could be a much better club and the course could be much better, but the problems,which have festered over many years of inefficient committees, is a real challenge. The problems will not be sorted out easily. But what I have seen and continue to see is quite good progress --- including the solution of some really outrageous problems left unresolved by many previous committees.

OP's point of view, as expressed in his original post, is argumentative and juvenile. Just look at how he led off with a comment about racism. That's utterly absurd and certainly not constructive in any sense. Why do such complainants seem to crop up on ThaiVisa Chiang Mai? That doesn't solve anything. OPs point of view certainly doesn't.

I am not interested in arguing point-by-point in a public forum. I suggest that OP begin to be more helpful at the club.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

Please be clear. We all want to know what's about.

Well, I for one dont want to know what it's all about.

It seems like the sort of stuff you could rehash about any condo committee meeting where, however good the committee, you can never please all of the people all of the time. And issues dont get resolved by dragging them through a public forum like thai visa, surely.

Even in committees in other countries, where people speak the same language, you get very similar problems in my experience, and where you add in language barriers, it gets worse inevitably. And sure, some committee members will have vested interests- the only reason many agree to stand for a voluntary job that attracts heavy criticism .

Seems to me that folks can either try to change from within, and if not, either go with the flow or play somewhere else.

[femi fan]

I would like to concur with mapguy's posts and comments.

Clearly thaivisa has a useful place in the farang community in this country, and of course for our own chiang mai forum. But sometimes it remains difficult sticking with it when so many people come here to display so much cynicism and negativity. It is just unbelievable how politically ruinous some posters are. All they want to do is carp and complain and project their own dour view of life onto the rest of us.

The committee in the last three years or so have made great strides to improve things. For many years before that the club just seemed to exist, bobble along. In the recent past many efforts have been made to improve the club and the experience of members here.

Luckily most who post here banging on about their negative experiences are very happy to tell us they will never go there again, so at least that helps those left who are doing their best to continue on this marvellous tradition that has lasted over a century.

One problem that exists is a perennial one: the language and therefore the cultural barrier between thais and non-thais. There are a handful of rather nasty thai individuals who make repeated attempts to polticise things and to snipe at those in the committee. There are some farang golfers who seem to have left any understanding they had of civility and politeness to others behind in the airport of their nation when they came here. They can be truly obnoxious towards thai people, both other golfers and workers. But i've seen that at other golf courses too.

The gymkhana is an oasis in the heart of the city. It is untouchable for the real estate agents, and remains a magnificent place for those in life who wish to enjoy life. Unsavoury incidents come and go, but that's life in general.

We get wonderful cricket there, we now seem to be home to the exhiliarating balloon festival each december, and the golf is excellent value for those who cannot afford the extortionate prices on the big courses. I call the course grade B golf, but you get what you pay for. But to walk those fairways whacking that little ball while surrounded by so many stunning trees is a pleasure in life. And then you can have a cold shower (and improvements on the way, yet more improvements) and eat some very acceptable and tasty food in top surroundings.

If you wanna be negative in life, it's so easy. But what a sad life to lead. Especially if you are living here in chiang mai in thailand. Blimey, if you can't find a positive life here then you'll not find it anywhere.

Yes the G has problems, but it's a democractic institution with laws and rules laid down from generations ago to protect its existence.

I expect to see some proactive efforts soon in improving the harmony between rules-obssessed western golfers and fun-obsessed thai golfers.

I hope the moaners stay away and leave the rest of us to wind our own way through the travails and joys of the Gymhkhana.

Stop mocking it. It comes up every few months here. Boring.

[femi fan]

Oh, and the increased monthly dues...

It was 600 baht a month when i joined in 2003 or so, i don't know how long before that. No increase for at least 11 years then. So about a 30% increase now, which is about 3% a year. Not a lot eh!

And it's not going into some company's coffers, or directors' pockets. The increase will help the committee to carry on with the momentum of the last few years in improving the course and the club. The club is owned by the members, something the committee have been keen to remind us of in the last several minutes of monthly meetings.

Even then, they said if we paid before the start of this year we could have the old price. So for me the new price doesn't even happen until january 2015. And how much do i pay for a round of golf? Nothing.

The value, even at the new price, is sensational.

[femi fan]

I left the club in the early 90\s, that's when it was taken over by a group of lets say men with ulterior motives, Haven't been there over 20 years and my real hope is that one day in would be made into a public park, but sadly the writing is on the wall, Resort

Were you not aware that the committee is voted into being every single year? One committee's tenancy is for just one year, then we can vote in or out anybody we wish, so long as there is a mix of thai and non-thai.

Can i ask you why you would like it turned into a park? Is that not an incredibly selfish wish? By all means tell me my assumption is wrong.

[Mousehound]

Went there five years ago with a visitor. Hired clubs - very poor quality - hired caddies - older, and not too bad. For 9 holes and a very average course I thought that paying as a visitor it was pretty expensive. About $60 each for the whole deal if I recall correctly. There was virtually no one on the course at the time, other than ourselves. Place seemed a bit run down. Pity, as it obviously has potential. Position for me is good and it has (too?) cheap membership. Disappointed to hear about the political infighting.

[alfieconn]

Went there five years ago with a visitor. Hired clubs - very poor quality - hired caddies - older, and not too bad. For 9 holes and a very average course I thought that paying as a visitor it was pretty expensive. About $60 each for the whole deal if I recall correctly. There was virtually no one on the course at the time, other than ourselves. Place seemed a bit run down. Pity, as it obviously has potential. Position for me is good and it has (too?) cheap membership. Disappointed to hear about the political infighting.

Your talking about your experience from 5 years ago .

[habfan]

Went there five years ago with a visitor. Hired clubs - very poor quality - hired caddies - older, and not too bad. For 9 holes and a very average course I thought that paying as a visitor it was pretty expensive. About $60 each for the whole deal if I recall correctly. There was virtually no one on the course at the time, other than ourselves. Place seemed a bit run down. Pity, as it obviously has potential. Position for me is good and it has (too?) cheap membership. Disappointed to hear about the political infighting.

You must have either the course or the price confused. At todays prices the whole deal you're talking about would be only $35.00. Five years ago even less.

[femi fan]

Come on then johnlee, you're not looking after your thread. Come back and support all your points you set out. One or two are true, but most of them are pure hearsay.

The next golf comp is on the 31st of this month, so not aborted at all.

A 'rare' committee meeting? They take place every month because i get minutes every month, if a bit late sometimes. The general content of the minutes backs up my own experience and feeling that progress for the Gymkhana is the default situation, and has been for a couple of years or so now.

EGMs can be called any time by members, so long as they adhere to the rules set out for such meetings. Nothing unusual in clubs having EGMs.

The club doesn't need to be in the limelight at all, it exists for its members and their guests, and of course visitors. However you clearly are trying to put it in the limelight by so denigrating it. Unless you can back up your claims of racism you should backtrack.

New loos? No, wrong. Improved changing rooms with newer showers and more lockers and presumably a more comfortable place to change in.

Has the handicap system collapsed? Can you elaborate and show us how?

Politics will occur anywhere where there is a collection of human beings. It's nothing new at all.

The only 'mess' at this club is the one in your own fanciful mind. You come here, give us a load of crappy gossip and unsubstantiated claims and then run away. Come back and tell the forum more about why you say what you say.

[eyecatcher]

I don't play golf at all, but what a stellar defence of the club by femifan.

After reading her posts I am almost encouraged to go buy a set of clubs and wave my niblick at her!

Ignorant question but is it possible to have foreigners on the committee, or a sub committee.

Such as femifan to bridge the divide?

[Ulysses G.]

After reading her posts I am almost encouraged to go buy a set of clubs and wave my niblick at her!

Is femifan a man or a woman? I've never been sure. Maybe a fan of fems?

Edited May 11, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[nivram4491]

Ignorant question but is it possible to have foreigners on the committee, or a sub committee.

Such as femifan to bridge the divide?

There are usually two non Thais on the committee.

I am not a member any longer but from what I've seen the current committee has done a fantastic job by clearing up some very long standing problems.

[femi fan]

I don't play golf at all, but what a stellar defence of the club by femifan.

After reading her posts I am almost encouraged to go buy a set of clubs and wave my niblick at her!

Ignorant question but is it possible to have foreigners on the committee, or a sub committee.

Such as femifan to bridge the divide?

Thanks, but how did i become a female?!

The committee must have both thais and non-thais on it. It is voted in or out annually.

I'm not old enough yet to be on the committee!

I don't really see my posts as a defence of the club, rather i felt it important to counter the kind of negative appeal-to-the-emotions-masquerading-as-fact stuff coming from the OP. It's not the first time this club has got it in the neck on this forum. I really don't know what some farangs living here want from life. All they seem to do is find something to complain about. I had heaps to complain about when i lived in my home country. So i moved.

Incidentally the club is literally owned by its members, and the committee is simply a body of people who have effectively volunteered to continue shepherding the club through the ages. Clearly it's doing well because it's over 100 years old. The club i mean, not the current committee.