Work permit as a sole employee

[Adeeos]

I'm a car/bike fabricator from the USA,,,, I MISS building the stuff,, I'd like to do custom bikes here, part time,, Do I need a WP?,,, if so,, how do I go about it, as I'm the ONLY person working?,,

[ubonjoe]

In order to get a work permit you need to be working for a registered company or business.

You could form you own company and do it, But you will need 4 Thai employees.

[tomyumchai]

i miss building stuff too, i modify my bikes as far as i can with the basic tools available but i wish we could just get on and do stuff.

[PoorSucker]

If you build a custom bike for yourself you don't need a WP.

If you intend to open a shop you need.

[recycler]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

[Phuketboy]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

If you build a bike for yourself and sell it then build another and do the same thing, you are not building them for yourself then are you? The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums? You can't get a work permit as a sole operator, you must be employed by a Thai company either your own set up with at least 4 Thai employees or for an already established Thai company. It's not that hard to set up and there are benefits in opening a company.

[joshstiles]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

If you build a bike for yourself and sell it then build another and do the same thing, you are not building them for yourself then are you? The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums? You can't get a work permit as a sole operator, you must be employed by a Thai company either your own set up with at least 4 Thai employees or for an already established Thai company. It's not that hard to set up and there are benefits in opening a company.

what could the benefit be if you have to employ 4 thai employees?

[Adeeos]

Ya,, I knew the 4 Thai per farlang thing,, but,, I'd be THE only employee,, like, mentioned,,,,build a bike for myself,,, ride it for several months,, whatever,, sell,, do another,,,

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Edited May 9, 2014 by Adeeos

[FredNL]

A mechanic for cars, motorcycles and bicycles is a reserved job for Thai Nationals only. I used to have a Honda (motorcycle) dealership in Bangkok.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

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[Runamile]

Something I've yet to discover, but, potentially very pertinent, is how many hours must each of those Thai employees work. Additionally, what is the position relative to vacancies?

[Spoonman]

The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums?

Well thats the first time I have heard it said.

In actual reality if you are working you need a work permit no matter if making money is involved or not.

[Skint]

A mechanic for cars, motorcycles and bicycles is a reserved job for Thai Nationals only. I used to have a Honda (motorcycle) dealership in Bangkok.

Are you Thai?

[unanimosity]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

If you build a bike for yourself and sell it then build another and do the same thing, you are not building them for yourself then are you? The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums? You can't get a work permit as a sole operator, you must be employed by a Thai company either your own set up with at least 4 Thai employees or for an already established Thai company. It's not that hard to set up and there are benefits in opening a company.

what could the benefit be if you have to employ 4 thai employees?

Use your imagination, lad.

[Mario2008]

A mechanic for cars, motorcycles and bicycles is a reserved job for Thai Nationals only. I used to have a Honda (motorcycle) dealership in Bangkok.

Are you Thai?

Being a business owner is something else than being a mechanic, they have different job discriptions.

[unanimosity]

Something I've yet to discover, but, potentially very pertinent, is how many hours must each of those Thai employees work. Additionally, what is the position relative to vacancies?

Gadai, mate. Missionary?

[Runamile]

@ Stoli

I take your point; and agree that this type of question is so often to do with someone searching for the answer they want - the "nobody will ever notice" type answer.

Surely, though, it's reasonable to investigate whether the law is an ass - often it is. Does the law simply require 4 Thai names. Maybe they only work an hour a week each, or does the law say 4 full-time employees? That's a big difference. What of vacancies? Never mind trying to search out weaknesses in the law, it's actually the case that, sometimes the 4 would be 3 .... or less!

[dao16]

ํYou say "building" bikes....or do you mean customizing? I don't think it would be a big deal to customize a bike at home, drive it for a while and then sell it with the papers and all. I know lots of people who do that.

However, from what I understand, it is illegal to "build" a bike due to taxes. Dunno. This is what I was told when my BIL was building one in his garage.

[shaurene]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

Last year the immigration in Phuket arrested 2 Falang for building their own boats on their home premises the accused them of building and then intending to sell them, accused them of working without a permit.

It could depend where you are busy tourist area could give you problems, but keep it quiet and pretty well hidden you should be ok, best of luck.]

[Runamile]

Wow, on the boatbuilders. So the Thai authorities assumed not only that the boats would be for sale, but for sale in Thailand.

My next question was going to be suppose the bikes (boats) were sold elsewhere than Thailand - to the extent that they were built/worked-on in Thailand would the authorities feel justified in making a claim against earnings realised through sale in another country?

[IMA_FARANG]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

Building a bike for your own use is a project.

Building one for sale to another person is a business.

The first doesn't need a Work Permit.

The second one does.

(Unless you are a Thai, of course, in which case you don't need a Work Permit anyhow).

[el jefe]

Wow, on the boatbuilders. So the Thai authorities assumed not only that the boats would be for sale, but for sale in Thailand.

My next question was going to be suppose the bikes (boats) were sold elsewhere than Thailand - to the extent that they were built/worked-on in Thailand would the authorities feel justified in making a claim against earnings realised through sale in another country?

It doesn't matter where you sell your product. You're working IN Thailand.

[innerspace]

Volunteer work requires a work permit (legally) so money is no factor. Selling overseas still does the work here so needs a work permit, plus an export license.

Even fixing your own bike could get you in trouble. Unlikely any cop would bother unless you pissed off the wrong person but it would hold up in court. Doing for yourself is taking a job away from a Thai.

Legal definition of "work" that requires a permit is "using knowledge or exerting effort". So looking right before crossing the road is illegal.

Lots of the above mentioned laws are often broken but it doesnt make them less of a law. Laws are broken from the top down over here but even primeministers are vunerable to prosecution.

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[Doc46]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

If you build a bike for yourself and sell it then build another and do the same thing, you are not building them for yourself then are you? The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums? You can't get a work permit as a sole operator, you must be employed by a Thai company either your own set up with at least 4 Thai employees or for an already established Thai company. It's not that hard to set up and there are benefits in opening a company.

what could the benefit be if you have to employ 4 thai employees?

There is no benefit ,you will be working at a loss.

[alant]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

If you build a bike for yourself and sell it then build another and do the same thing, you are not building them for yourself then are you? The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums? You can't get a work permit as a sole operator, you must be employed by a Thai company either your own set up with at least 4 Thai employees or for an already established Thai company. It's not that hard to set up and there are benefits in opening a company.

You say you cannot get a work permit as a sole operator, what about a musician? When there was a lot of trouble in Chiang Mai about jamming in bars the officials said musicians must get a work permit and they would grant them I think???

[shrimpythailand]

if you are here legally - I think you could buy and sell a bike with all the papers thru a thai GF or a thai friend you could trust... key word being trust...I am paying off a honda small 125cc bike in my wife's name to a big bike shop that sells a lot of bikes...pay every month at 7/11 counter service... i have 2 dirty bike shops on my street where the guys are always working on choppers of all sorts - harley's and copies - some real ones - some not so nice...but to buy and sell a good big bike you better have it in a thai's name even if you call it personal use and fix one up then sell it..... or go thru a big bike dealer store - again - paperwork in a thai name...again - all that being said you could be not legal doing it - but one at a time and not in your name... also you have all the rules and regs of illegal engine modifying if over the cc's.... Imet a brit out here one day - got his big 1100cc BMW touring bike up from Malaysia... cost him 70,000 bt for the license plate and he said it took 6 months to get it thru... then - every sunday he takes it out for a drive he gets stopped by cops that just want to have a look at it and also check out he has all the proper papers on it... so you have to be careful...

I think the best way would be to get to a big custom thai bike dealer and try to get them to do a work permit... but then you are on the payroll and would be working full time...

seriously tho - if I work on my car and fix it up and sell it in my wife's name in my spare time i cannot see a problem...but if they grabbed the guys building a boat in their own yard then yes could be trouble...

[Spoonman]

What a load of scaremongering <deleted> Shrimpy.

To the OP. buy the bike and get the book put into your name. if this process goes smoothly you will never have an issue to re-sell it at a later date. even if you have modified it.

Understand there are restrictions on modification's that can technically render the bike illegal to be ridden on public roads though and the primary one is loud exhausts, they attract un wanted attention.

Also if you paint the bike a different colour get the book up-dated as this too can create hassles when the police have you pulled over.

[Phuketboy]

What if you build a bike for yourself, sell it and build anther one for yourself, when would this be a business?

If you build a bike for yourself and sell it then build another and do the same thing, you are not building them for yourself then are you? The fact is if you make money in Thailand you need a work permit...... how many times does this have to be said in these forums? You can't get a work permit as a sole operator, you must be employed by a Thai company either your own set up with at least 4 Thai employees or for an already established Thai company. It's not that hard to set up and there are benefits in opening a company.

what could the benefit be if you have to employ 4 thai employees?

There is no benefit ,you will be working at a loss.

Do you know anything about company structures or business? Yes you need to employ 4 Thai's, this will give you a work permit, it also means you can get a 1 year visa. You list as many job descriptions as you can on your work permit because it's your company, which also means if you list training staff and managing staff work, you can basically do any job you want as long as you have a Thai person standing next to you (if questioned, you are showing them and training them). Having a company also allows you open other businesses under the company umbrella, to purchase property in the company name (a little protection for you), this also includes land. These are just some of the benefits. Use your imagination and learn how to use a company structure (in any country) for your benefit. I am doing this and yes I am very profitable, much more profitable here than my company in Australia, with much less hassle and red tape, taxes and expenses as well.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Phuketboy

[waxon]

Since you are from the US, you can open a Thai company under the Thai-US Amity agreement. That means you can own 100%. If you open a Thai company, 51% must be owned by Thai directors. You will need multiple Thai directors (3?). Then, you need to deal with the work permit. An Amity company only requires one Thai employee for each non-Thai.

You must pay at least the Thai minimum wage. No matter how you try to calculate it, it is 9,000THB. This salary must be reported to both the Revenue Dept and Social Welfare. Both of these place require that you make a monthly payment to them based on a percentage of the salary. Plus, as the business owner, you must make at least 50,000THB per month (US owner, lower for some other nationalities). That salary is also reported to Revenue and Social Welfare. So, as a sole proprietor you will be paying about 2,500THB per month in taxes and welfare based on you and one Thai making minimum salaries. Less than a Thai company where you are paying for multiple employees and possibly directors. You best not miss any payments either as getting back on track is a nightmare due to abysmal record keeping at these departments.

Now that you have your company established, you will need to become really familiar with the Land Transport guys who inspect bikes/cars and the ladies who issue the books. I had a bike that I changed the tank, seat and exhaust. I also changed the color. I was naive. The inspector pulled up a picture of my bike model (factory original) on his computer and told me my bike was illegally modified. It did not look the same. Getting receipts and supporting documents became a huge mess. I went to a local shop who did mods to bikes and they told me they could handle the book for a fee. They took my bike (along with some of theirs) to DLT and the guy remembered my bike and told them no. I should have used them first and never attempted to do the registration myself. Every time there was some issue that needed to be "resolved".

Something as simple and easy to do as mod a car/bike or build a custom in the US is extremely difficult here. Not that it can't be done, but you need to know the "process". If I was to attempt this business again, my one employee would be a Thai guy who knew his way around DLT. That alone would be worth it.

The difficult part about the company is setting it up initially. Then, just make sure you make your monthy payments and keep records. Revenue can demand to see your audited books at any time so a good Thai bookkeeper/lawyer is also necessary.

Good luck!