Thai protesters launch 'final fight' as government clings on

[RubbaJohnny]

Adjacent to the cobbler's last is the cobbler's awls

[RubbaJohnny]

Does Suthep have a footwear sponsor?

Burk n Stock?

Poo Ma?

Kickers?

[Mrgk]

PDRC leader Suthep also said Friday night if the military still stay put and did not come out to do anything then he and protesters would act.

The military won't come out. The civilians behind the PDRC movement want a coup, but former military figures like Prawit Wongsuwan realize it'd play into PT's hands, which is probably true. Also Prayuth definitely doesn't want to stage a coup. Red shirt leaders are also against a coup, presumably realizing that if there was one, they'd be the first to be killed if they resisted or forced into exile or jailed if they didn't (hence Jatuporn's recent attempts to defuse tension). My guess though is that the govt thinks if it does go down, it might as well be from a coup. After all, that's what provides the most legitimacy when it comes to resistance and international condemnation. Of course, what's happening amounts to a coup whether by military force or otherwise. And once they lose power, I don't think they'll be getting it back so easily. If I had to say what Thaksin's chances of coming back to Thailand are now, I'd say zero or less than zero if that were possible. Still, I think most sane people would rather see compromise and a move to elections, even if it meant PT would stay in power.

Surely you aren't still hanging on to the silly notion that a Coup could possibly benefit Suthep ?

The only one who can gain anything from a coup is Thaksin.

He has been trying to goad the army into taking over with the shootings and grenade attacks and the statements from types like Ko Tee, Issan Rambo and others.

Once the army stepped in he could then say his legitimate Govt was once again ousted by the military.

He could then get international sympathy and form a Govt in exile.

His red army is now well organized to come out and terrorise the country putting the whole country in a similar situation to the south.

There are red leaders who have said as much, even detailing possible targets.

The army could never win in such a situation, as they cant handle the south now.

But fortunately the brass is on to him and isn't buying, so the next desperate move could well be to bring out the reds to goad the army some more.

Once the country was in such a state of turmoil and yes anarchy, then the savior (hero) could return and bring peace and unity to the country.

So your thesis is that Thaksin wants to trade having an actual PTP-controlled government in place for "a government in exile"? Really?

Edited May 9, 2014 by Mrgk

[Bill94]

Two PDRC leaders give interview which I find very interesting to say the least. I sure hope the election goes well.

http://www.vice.com/vice-news/driving-ferraris-with-thai-royalists

[peecee]

PDRC leader Suthep also said Friday night if the military still stay put and did not come out to do anything then he and protesters would act.

The military won't come out. The civilians behind the PDRC movement want a coup, but former military figures like Prawit Wongsuwan realize it'd play into PT's hands, which is probably true. Also Prayuth definitely doesn't want to stage a coup. Red shirt leaders are also against a coup, presumably realizing that if there was one, they'd be the first to be killed if they resisted or forced into exile or jailed if they didn't (hence Jatuporn's recent attempts to defuse tension). My guess though is that the govt thinks if it does go down, it might as well be from a coup. After all, that's what provides the most legitimacy when it comes to resistance and international condemnation. Of course, what's happening amounts to a coup whether by military force or otherwise. And once they lose power, I don't think they'll be getting it back so easily. If I had to say what Thaksin's chances of coming back to Thailand are now, I'd say zero or less than zero if that were possible. Still, I think most sane people would rather see compromise and a move to elections, even if it meant PT would stay in power.

The election road is one were the loosers fear to tread. Having seen so many of the military or judiciary lead coupes I have come to the conclussion that Thailand in it's present form is ungoverable. The development of the peasantry's political voice seems to outrage the old guard who seem to think only they have the wear-with-all to govern.

[Myshkin]

God! Please help Thailand and the good Thai people PLEASE! I never wish to see 2010.

You probably mean Buddha!

[shiok]

Sutheps final attempt to tear the country totally down !

Let's all hope he does not succeed .

oh just check yourself into the mental hospital or better still take a flight to Dubai to kiss arse!!!

[Loles]

This is really laughable already

Like the idiot communist internationale:

.... This fight will be the last .....

[peecee]

Sutheps final attempt to tear the country totally down !

Let's all hope he does not succeed .

Actually, he isn't trying to tear the country down, he's trying to tear the Shin Dynasty down and let's hope that he succeeds.

I hope someone, somewhere is asking the question: Who has Thaksin and Yingluck etc hacked off so badly to warrant such a savage response? Do you think the courts and Suthep are doing this for the "people" or something else? Why is that the army intervenes when the redshirts protest and not when the yellow shirts do the same and even take over an airport and large parts of the city? What is it that Thaksin/Yingluck/redshirts etc are doing that is really hacking the likes of the courts and the army off? Could it really be corruption, which lets be honest has been a part of Thai (and pretty much all Asian countries') history for decades? I don't think so. I think it is something else.

It's old money v new, old guard v elected upstarts, ditatorship v democracy and it's going to explode very soon.

[Mr Yim]

Sutheps final attempt to tear the country totally down !

Let's all hope he does not succeed .

Actually, he isn't trying to tear the country down, he's trying to tear the Shin Dynasty down and let's hope that he succeeds.

I hope someone, somewhere is asking the question: Who has Thaksin and Yingluck etc hacked off so badly to warrant such a savage response? Do you think the courts and Suthep are doing this for the "people" or something else? Why is that the army intervenes when the redshirts protest and not when the yellow shirts do the same and even take over an airport and large parts of the city? What is it that Thaksin/Yingluck/redshirts etc are doing that is really hacking the likes of the courts and the army off? Could it really be corruption, which lets be honest has been a part of Thai (and pretty much all Asian countries') history for decades? I don't think so. I think it is something else.

It's old money v new, old guard v elected upstarts, ditatorship v democracy and it's going to explode very soon.

You are right to ask those questions. It is nothing to do with Thaksin. He is the excuse. This is much bigger so far as some people are concerned. I cannot say more because I dont wish to risk 25 years in prison.

[JesseFrank]

You are right to ask those questions. It is nothing to do with Thaksin. He is the excuse. This is much bigger so far as some people are concerned. I cannot say more because I dont wish to risk 25 years in prison.

You're in the same position as me.

I know who killed JFK, but I can't say more because the FBI gonna come after me.

NEXT

[Smokemachine]

A benevolent leader is millions times better than a group of bandits who disguised as the protector of (red) Democracy.

I believe these people are coming out to fight what they believe.

Why do people need "democracy" when it is not helping the citizens?

Hmmmm........ *thinking

[outre99]

Sutheps final attempt to tear the country totally down !

Let's all hope he does not succeed .

Actually, he isn't trying to tear the country down, he's trying to tear the Shin Dynasty down and let's hope that he succeeds.

Yes let's hope that but if he does don't bother coming here whining about things didn't turn out as you wanted.

Ah, the will of the ignorant and the deluded.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Oh yes the ignorant and deluded poor red masses keep fighting and dying so a billionair and his cronies can rape the country and have a comfortable life in Dubai while they with the rest of the country are left holding an empty bag. I thought for sure that the rice sheme fiasco will hit them and their families where it hurst. But these people are too stupid to connect the dots, hence the succession of incompetent and corrupt governments.

[Trouble]

In the original newspaper article it states: "They hate the Shinawatras who they accuse of fostering massive corruption and draining the kingdom's coffers to sweeten Thaksin's rural electoral base in the poor but populous north and northeast."

First off I don't think the Shinawatras invented corruption in Thailand. That is an institution that is rife at all levels of public and private enterprise. Don't blame that family for corruption. What most of the people hate, including TV posters, is the fact that they family has amassed wealth. This wealth did not come from massive schemes to loot the public coffers. That being said surely they used power and influence to conduct business dealings and also tried to avoid taxes. So who hasn't taken deduction or some other scheme to avoid tax whether it is 5 million dollars or 5 dollars. Is what Thaksin did with regard to the land purchase of his wife disgraceful, you bet. My point is this type of use of position, power, and money is rampant in Thailand. The righteousness of some here is appalling.

Now for the accusation of draining the kindoms's coffers to sweeten the rural electoral base. Of course that has happened. Is that so unusual. It happens everywhere. That's what the tax system is about. Mostly what taxation does is take it from some and give it to others. Has not Obama done the same thing with his health care program. It is nothing more than a massive scheme to give health care to the poor at the expense of others. Welfare, foodstamps, etc are all the same. It is a massive redistribution of wealth. Some may argue that this is needed in modern societies but none the less you are taking from Peter to pay Paul. I know many who are relying on the 30 baht health care scheme, a Thaksin, program. Where are the complaints about that?

So for those of you so vehemently opposed to the Shinawatra clan, get over your indignation and open your eyes. Corruption in Thailand is all around you. It is one both sided of the political spectrum. Suthep's past is as dirty as it can get and you are supporting his ridding the nation of the Shinawatras mostly for the reason that Thaksin amassed vast wealth. If you have read about his business, you will see that this wealth was amassed through business dealings, not looting the public coffers. There is no doubt that Thaksin has probably used what would be considered unethical means to conduct business but he is no better or worse that people like Suthep. Do you really believe that Suthep is seen the light now and will not seek to profit in the future from his connections in government IF he should be successful in his revolt. He will stack the government with his people who will be beholden to him.

The only reason I have been against this PDRC "revolt" and court actions against Yingluck is that I see it as corruption on an even larger scale. It takes a public election and completely voids things through the actions of a few. Let the electorate decide what the results of the elections should be and who should be running the country. To me what Suthep did in blocking the elections is nothing more that obstruction of the will of the people. His crimes are, at least to me, much worse than anything Yingluck did in office. She is being blamed for allowing corruption in the rice pledging scheme and I would bet she never received a baht from such corruption or would have allowed it if she had the power to stop it. It is all a farce. You might blame her for being weak and inefficient but I really don't think after what happened to her brother she is a crook. Was the rice pledging scheme an attempt to help the farmers, you bet. Was it a failure, you bet. Did she profit from it monetarily, probably not. This scheme surely was an attempt to help the farmer and win votes. But so is Obamacare, and all the other schemes cooked up by governments around the world to appease the poor masses and maintain a voter base.

[fish fingers]

The election road is one were the loosers fear to tread.

This is just great.

[outre99]

In the original newspaper article it states: "They hate the Shinawatras who they accuse of fostering massive corruption and draining the kingdom's coffers to sweeten Thaksin's rural electoral base in the poor but populous north and northeast."

First off I don't think the Shinawatras invented corruption in Thailand. That is an institution that is rife at all levels of public and private enterprise. Don't blame that family for corruption. What most of the people hate, including TV posters, is the fact that they family has amassed wealth. This wealth did not come from massive schemes to loot the public coffers. That being said surely they used power and influence to conduct business dealings and also tried to avoid taxes. So who hasn't taken deduction or some other scheme to avoid tax whether it is 5 million dollars or 5 dollars. Is what Thaksin did with regard to the land purchase of his wife disgraceful, you bet. My point is this type of use of position, power, and money is rampant in Thailand. The righteousness of some here is appalling.

Now for the accusation of draining the kindoms's coffers to sweeten the rural electoral base. Of course that has happened. Is that so unusual. It happens everywhere. That's what the tax system is about. Mostly what taxation does is take it from some and give it to others. Has not Obama done the same thing with his health care program. It is nothing more than a massive scheme to give health care to the poor at the expense of others. Welfare, foodstamps, etc are all the same. It is a massive redistribution of wealth. Some may argue that this is needed in modern societies but none the less you are taking from Peter to pay Paul. I know many who are relying on the 30 baht health care scheme, a Thaksin, program. Where are the complaints about that?

So for those of you so vehemently opposed to the Shinawatra clan, get over your indignation and open your eyes. Corruption in Thailand is all around you. It is one both sided of the political spectrum. Suthep's past is as dirty as it can get and you are supporting his ridding the nation of the Shinawatras mostly for the reason that Thaksin amassed vast wealth. If you have read about his business, you will see that this wealth was amassed through business dealings, not looting the public coffers. There is no doubt that Thaksin has probably used what would be considered unethical means to conduct business but he is no better or worse that people like Suthep. Do you really believe that Suthep is seen the light now and will not seek to profit in the future from his connections in government IF he should be successful in his revolt. He will stack the government with his people who will be beholden to him.

The only reason I have been against this PDRC "revolt" and court actions against Yingluck is that I see it as corruption on an even larger scale. It takes a public election and completely voids things through the actions of a few. Let the electorate decide what the results of the elections should be and who should be running the country. To me what Suthep did in blocking the elections is nothing more that obstruction of the will of the people. His crimes are, at least to me, much worse than anything Yingluck did in office. She is being blamed for allowing corruption in the rice pledging scheme and I would bet she never received a baht from such corruption or would have allowed it if she had the power to stop it. It is all a farce. You might blame her for being weak and inefficient but I really don't think after what happened to her brother she is a crook. Was the rice pledging scheme an attempt to help the farmers, you bet. Was it a failure, you bet. Did she profit from it monetarily, probably not. This scheme surely was an attempt to help the farmer and win votes. But so is Obamacare, and all the other schemes cooked up by governments around the world to appease the poor masses and maintain a voter base.

The difference is in the magnitude, accountability, and intent. And on all those scales the red governments have been much much worse than anything else.

The shere magnitude, shamelesness and impunity of Taksin's corruption knows no equal. Saying that everybody takes a tax deduction in defence of what Taksin did during the sale of his telecom business is naive at best. No he didn't just make use of an existing tax deduction. He used his power over the rubber stamp house to pass that deduction into law and then he made use of it. It that's not an abuse of power i don't know what is. Taksin did not create corruption, but he took it into stratasphere.

Corruption existed before Taksin but it was moderated by society. You could skim of the top but you had to share. Taksin did away with any kind of moderation or accountability. By leveraging his populist cult of personality and easily manipulated/paid voters he managed to climb to the top of the power pyramid and challenge complacent rulling class. Many great figures in history have done that. But the reason we now call them great is because they've accomplished great things with that power. They built empires, discovered new lands, encouraged science, technology, and architecture. The modern day business tycoons who are universally admired are the likes of Gates and Buffet who are spending their enormous fortunes to improve the world and help others. Taksin is lusting after power and wealth for their own sake. He's not a great leader of the downtroden masses, he's a ruthless demagogue using the masses for his own ends. Thinking people see that and that is why he is hated, not because he was a successful businessman.

Now let's talk about wealth redistribution. You are correct that citizens pay taxes to the governments, which in turn spend that money on programs that should benefit the society at large. That's the way of the world. The biggest difference is that it seems the successive red governments have a peculiar approach to spending tax baht. Except for the 30 baht medical program, which incidently is the only successful populist program and which seems to be the basis of the undying devotion of the red masses to Mr. T, the rest of the schemes went down in flames at a huge expense to the taxpayer and a handsome profit to the government connected cronies. The biggest difference between government programs in the US and other western countries and in Thailand is accountability. If even a fraction of the funds that the red governments lost over the last 10 years were found out the responsible officials would be out of a job and probably under legal enditements. US congress would drag the responsible parties and the white house offcials into multiple hearings, subpoenas would be issued, records collected, etc. etc. That's accountability, and it doesn't exist here. The anti-government protesters on the streets want that to change.

A few words about the rice sheme. Any thinking person would and have looked at it and questioned its motives from day one. If the original intent was to help the poor why were the poorest hundreds of thousands farmers excluded from it. Why try to corner the rice stocks in this contrived way instead of just giving farmers subsidies and let them sell their products through the normal channels. Most of the money would go to the farmers and the administration and logistics costs would have been minimal. Incedently that was exacly what Democrats did. The latest sheme's final form begins to make more sense when you find out that it was concieved by the Taksin's inner circle as an attempt to corner the world's rice market, drive up the prices and then make huge amount of money. At the time Thailand was the top rice producer in the world, so their logic might have made sense to a 5th grader. But what happened was quite predictable by anybody familiar with the supply elasticity. Once Thai rice was pulled from the world markets other suppliers stepped up to satisfy the demand and the red government found itself paying above the market price for rice that they could not sell. Over time the quality deteriorated, the money ran out, and the rest is history. They have tried to sell this fiasco as a populist program. And the uneducated and uninformed farmers actually bought that. What's your excuse?

You are correct in pointing out that Suthep's past is a blamished one. But using that as the defence for the Shin clan and their proxies sounds like a school yard retort: "But he started it". Suthep is not the embodiment of the anti-Taksin sentiment, he is simply an accidental conduit. Taksin is a product of the shameless, ruthless, greedy corporate culture. He's been a member of the Carlyle group for many years rubbing shoulders with the global moneyed elites. His loyalties lie not with Thailand and its people but with his own self-interest and the interests of his corporate supporters. That is another reason why he is opposed by the traditional Thai elites, because they know that if he prevails Thailand will be fed to multi-nationals like a nice tropical snack.

Lastly i'd like to address the "let electorate decide" nonsense. Elections are not the same as democracy. A true democracy requires informed citizenry participating in the selection of their leaders who openly compeete for votes on the merit of their record and their ideas, while independent agencies ensure fair elections, keep the citizenry informed, and hold the government responsible. Thailand does not have a functional democracy. It's similar to the US in that respect.

The warring political camps have transformed into an ideological-mlitant complex focused on the ritual of elections while corrupting the spirit of democracy by indimidating opposition candidates and voters, buying votes with impunity, and spewing propaganda that would make Goebels and Stalin proud. After seeing the continuous disasters that all of the recent red governments created an observant person would question the validity and viability of the current democratic process. Now i don't necessarily agree with all of the PDRC proposals but the fact that current system must change is indisputable. All levels of society should be involved, it should be discussed and debated, and ultimately adopted for the sake of all Thais.

[chotthee]

Please come out in the (six) millions like you this the last time.

The is the real last and final fight.

I promise.

Just this time and it is all over.

Thails can live in a corrupt free society forever, under the guardianship of Suthep the great and almighty.

[connda]

Folks see two sides of the same coin, and think they're different coins. Lol

[ozvenison]

Ok.. I still want to see ONE POLICY DOCUMENT from PDRC on REFORM ???

Just one, Thai or English..

I'm no fan of either side but I can't believe supporters of Suthep haven't demanded this ???

Have you ever seen one from PT ?

Or doesn't that matter ?

yes I have actually.. and from the Democrats.. some good, some bad..

just NONE from Suthep..

Surely you must know why you are following him? PDRC policies, in WRITING ???

Then you had better post a link to the PT reform policy so we can all see.

Incidentally Suthep has been holding reform meetings with various sectors to get expert opinions on each different reform.

But perhaps you missed those.

yes they were held at queen sirakit building, the first one was on 'how to help the poor'..

And still nothing released on 'reforms'..

I do believe the PDRC's platform is 'reform' not PT or Democrats.. or perhaps you missed that?

[RubbaJohnny]

A benevolent leader is millions times better than a group of bandits who disguised as the protector of (red) Democracy.

I believe these people are coming out to fight what they believe.

Why do people need "democracy" when it is not helping the citizens?

Hmmmm........ *thinking

Cling-ons struggle with cognitive dissonance

[Roadman]

In the original newspaper article it states: "They hate the Shinawatras who they accuse of fostering massive corruption and draining the kingdom's coffers to sweeten Thaksin's rural electoral base in the poor but populous north and northeast."

First off I don't think the Shinawatras invented corruption in Thailand. That is an institution that is rife at all levels of public and private enterprise. Don't blame that family for corruption. What most of the people hate, including TV posters, is the fact that they family has amassed wealth. This wealth did not come from massive schemes to loot the public coffers. That being said surely they used power and influence to conduct business dealings and also tried to avoid taxes. So who hasn't taken deduction or some other scheme to avoid tax whether it is 5 million dollars or 5 dollars. Is what Thaksin did with regard to the land purchase of his wife disgraceful, you bet. My point is this type of use of position, power, and money is rampant in Thailand. The righteousness of some here is appalling.

Now for the accusation of draining the kindoms's coffers to sweeten the rural electoral base. Of course that has happened. Is that so unusual. It happens everywhere. That's what the tax system is about. Mostly what taxation does is take it from some and give it to others. Has not Obama done the same thing with his health care program. It is nothing more than a massive scheme to give health care to the poor at the expense of others. Welfare, foodstamps, etc are all the same. It is a massive redistribution of wealth. Some may argue that this is needed in modern societies but none the less you are taking from Peter to pay Paul. I know many who are relying on the 30 baht health care scheme, a Thaksin, program. Where are the complaints about that?

So for those of you so vehemently opposed to the Shinawatra clan, get over your indignation and open your eyes. Corruption in Thailand is all around you. It is one both sided of the political spectrum. Suthep's past is as dirty as it can get and you are supporting his ridding the nation of the Shinawatras mostly for the reason that Thaksin amassed vast wealth. If you have read about his business, you will see that this wealth was amassed through business dealings, not looting the public coffers. There is no doubt that Thaksin has probably used what would be considered unethical means to conduct business but he is no better or worse that people like Suthep. Do you really believe that Suthep is seen the light now and will not seek to profit in the future from his connections in government IF he should be successful in his revolt. He will stack the government with his people who will be beholden to him.

The only reason I have been against this PDRC "revolt" and court actions against Yingluck is that I see it as corruption on an even larger scale. It takes a public election and completely voids things through the actions of a few. Let the electorate decide what the results of the elections should be and who should be running the country. To me what Suthep did in blocking the elections is nothing more that obstruction of the will of the people. His crimes are, at least to me, much worse than anything Yingluck did in office. She is being blamed for allowing corruption in the rice pledging scheme and I would bet she never received a baht from such corruption or would have allowed it if she had the power to stop it. It is all a farce. You might blame her for being weak and inefficient but I really don't think after what happened to her brother she is a crook. Was the rice pledging scheme an attempt to help the farmers, you bet. Was it a failure, you bet. Did she profit from it monetarily, probably not. This scheme surely was an attempt to help the farmer and win votes. But so is Obamacare, and all the other schemes cooked up by governments around the world to appease the poor masses and maintain a voter base.

The difference is in the magnitude, accountability, and intent. And on all those scales the red governments have been much much worse than anything else.

The shere magnitude, shamelesness and impunity of Taksin's corruption knows no equal. Saying that everybody takes a tax deduction in defence of what Taksin did during the sale of his telecom business is naive at best. No he didn't just make use of an existing tax deduction. He used his power over the rubber stamp house to pass that deduction into law and then he made use of it. It that's not an abuse of power i don't know what is. Taksin did not create corruption, but he took it into stratasphere.

Corruption existed before Taksin but it was moderated by society. You could skim of the top but you had to share. Taksin did away with any kind of moderation or accountability. By leveraging his populist cult of personality and easily manipulated/paid voters he managed to climb to the top of the power pyramid and challenge complacent rulling class. Many great figures in history have done that. But the reason we now call them great is because they've accomplished great things with that power. They built empires, discovered new lands, encouraged science, technology, and architecture. The modern day business tycoons who are universally admired are the likes of Gates and Buffet who are spending their enormous fortunes to improve the world and help others. Taksin is lusting after power and wealth for their own sake. He's not a great leader of the downtroden masses, he's a ruthless demagogue using the masses for his own ends. Thinking people see that and that is why he is hated, not because he was a successful businessman.

Now let's talk about wealth redistribution. You are correct that citizens pay taxes to the governments, which in turn spend that money on programs that should benefit the society at large. That's the way of the world. The biggest difference is that it seems the successive red governments have a peculiar approach to spending tax baht. Except for the 30 baht medical program, which incidently is the only successful populist program and which seems to be the basis of the undying devotion of the red masses to Mr. T, the rest of the schemes went down in flames at a huge expense to the taxpayer and a handsome profit to the government connected cronies. The biggest difference between government programs in the US and other western countries and in Thailand is accountability. If even a fraction of the funds that the red governments lost over the last 10 years were found out the responsible officials would be out of a job and probably under legal enditements. US congress would drag the responsible parties and the white house offcials into multiple hearings, subpoenas would be issued, records collected, etc. etc. That's accountability, and it doesn't exist here. The anti-government protesters on the streets want that to change.

A few words about the rice sheme. Any thinking person would and have looked at it and questioned its motives from day one. If the original intent was to help the poor why were the poorest hundreds of thousands farmers excluded from it. Why try to corner the rice stocks in this contrived way instead of just giving farmers subsidies and let them sell their products through the normal channels. Most of the money would go to the farmers and the administration and logistics costs would have been minimal. Incedently that was exacly what Democrats did. The latest sheme's final form begins to make more sense when you find out that it was concieved by the Taksin's inner circle as an attempt to corner the world's rice market, drive up the prices and then make huge amount of money. At the time Thailand was the top rice producer in the world, so their logic might have made sense to a 5th grader. But what happened was quite predictable by anybody familiar with the supply elasticity. Once Thai rice was pulled from the world markets other suppliers stepped up to satisfy the demand and the red government found itself paying above the market price for rice that they could not sell. Over time the quality deteriorated, the money ran out, and the rest is history. They have tried to sell this fiasco as a populist program. And the uneducated and uninformed farmers actually bought that. What's your excuse?

You are correct in pointing out that Suthep's past is a blamished one. But using that as the defence for the Shin clan and their proxies sounds like a school yard retort: "But he started it". Suthep is not the embodiment of the anti-Taksin sentiment, he is simply an accidental conduit. Taksin is a product of the shameless, ruthless, greedy corporate culture. He's been a member of the Carlyle group for many years rubbing shoulders with the global moneyed elites. His loyalties lie not with Thailand and its people but with his own self-interest and the interests of his corporate supporters. That is another reason why he is opposed by the traditional Thai elites, because they know that if he prevails Thailand will be fed to multi-nationals like a nice tropical snack.

Lastly i'd like to address the "let electorate decide" nonsense. Elections are not the same as democracy. A true democracy requires informed citizenry participating in the selection of their leaders who openly compeete for votes on the merit of their record and their ideas, while independent agencies ensure fair elections, keep the citizenry informed, and hold the government responsible. Thailand does not have a functional democracy. It's similar to the US in that respect.

The warring political camps have transformed into an ideological-mlitant complex focused on the ritual of elections while corrupting the spirit of democracy by indimidating opposition candidates and voters, buying votes with impunity, and spewing propaganda that would make Goebels and Stalin proud. After seeing the continuous disasters that all of the recent red governments created an observant person would question the validity and viability of the current democratic process. Now i don't necessarily agree with all of the PDRC proposals but the fact that current system must change is indisputable. All levels of society should be involved, it should be discussed and debated, and ultimately adopted for the sake of all Thais.

Rather than just hitting the like button for your post well done for a very well written and very correct reply.

[Saan]

Suthep sounds more and more like another madmen who ranted before the misled masses at Nuremberg.

[graham66]

Two PDRC leaders give interview which I find very interesting to say the least. I sure hope the election goes well.

http://www.vice.com/vice-news/driving-ferraris-with-thai-royalists

Quote: "It takes a lot of guts for you not to get a red Ferrari". No seat belts either, so it is a toss up whether they get their faces splattered when driving at 200 kph on Sukhumvit, or when they are first against the wall.

[RJJ]

obviously a typo but 'only the empty heads of the people would be used' Suthep says,ha had to laugh at that one.

No typo; he will just use the yellow empty heads against the red empty heads.

Hmm, I feel like going bowling now.

[binnsy1]

LIVE on Bluesky TV which has no preference

[Saan]

US congress would drag the responsible parties and the white house offcials into multiple hearings, subpoenas would be issued, records collected, etc. etc. That's accountability, and it doesn't exist here. The anti-government protesters on the streets want that to change.

Where was the accountability following the US sub prime crisis that rocked the world economy? The bankers that should have been jailed were left untouched or appointed to government posts. Thaksin was an amateur compared with that lot.

[Wombat6]

Sutheps final attempt to tear the country totally down !

Let's all hope he does not succeed .

Speak for yourself. Whilst Suthep has his faults, he did instigate the removal of the worst PM Thailand has had. You would have to be Brain dead to not see what damage Yingluck and her self centred and greedy Brother have done to this country. If you believe the PTP Government are so great , perhaps you could enlighten everyone on any successful achievment they have completed.

[Wombat6]

The govt is playing a winning hand, they have the high moral ground, playing with a straight bat and all the while making Suthep look like an hysterical fool. Keep it up!

Yoo Hoo !! Time to wake up......you have been dreaming..!!

[Wombat6]

Going well it seems : No sight of Mr Capo to the rescue..

Has the caretaker government fallen yet? Wake me up if it does

People who are Brain dead can't be woken.

[NCFC]

As the courts have their say, and as the reformist movement have their say, the perpetual caretaker administration of Pheu Thai struggles to stay afloat. Pheu Thai rejects the courts. The fact that Surapong still considers himself deputy prime minister is proof positive of that. He spent a sleepless night wondering if the Constitutional Court really meant what they said when they said he had to go. But this morning, he's certain they made a mistake. So onward he goes. No court in the land is going to hold that man down. He's already planning to go to the ASEAN summit to " explain " the situation. Chalerm leaving ? Not a bit of it. No court in the land is going to hold him down, either. It's off to CAPO for him. The man who wrestles with the courts as many times as most other people shave has now a lot of catching up to do by issuing summons and slapping new charges on people. His enthusiasm and zeal for the law is only surpassed by his insistence that the law doesn't actually apply to him. Yingluck has a decision to make. Whether to claim her defense ministry portfolio - as some of the nuttier aspects of Pheu Thai are insisting is hers, or join the Jatuporn/ Thida zealots on the UDD stage tomorrow and criticize the courts and checks and balances of the judicial system. Decisions, decisions. And the new prime minister - or rather the one Pheu Thai is insisting be called as such - what is he doing ? Well, he has half a cabinet, no legislative power, no parliament, and no public mandate. And oh yes, he can't call an election because as he was neither elected through a quorum-filled parliament or the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament, he is not recognized by the constitution as having that authority.

Mr post-and-run with his usual patronising rhetoric. Seems like that final push lacked the support of the people, eh Scampi?

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