Phra Buddha Isara injured by water canon, teargas

[wolf5370]

ah yes Bluesky - because they are not biased

Sad day for Thailand.

... and neither are the other sources of information, of course...

If the PDRC have it their way Bluesky will be the only source of news evidenced by todays protests at various other TV stations who in their opinion do not support their side of politics. Yes, very democratic that is.

This is true of both sides' media outlets - the press here is biased to one party or another and some to the extent of really twisting the given facts. It is what makes it so hard to pick the real facts from the BS. The best way I find is to see how other agencies are reporting the same events, if at all - and discount anything that is not or is reported out of kilter. It can be sport sometimes to look at sites like Aljazeera and guess which news agency they got the info from - it really is quite easy to do!

[Fat Haggis]

Fact

If there were no protests there wouldn't have been any deaths!!

Fact

More people have been killed in road accidents than at these protests

Fact

More people have died through non political acts of violence than at protests

What's your point Mr. I only deal and talk facts ???

[Baerboxer]

Does anyone else feel that it's slightly absurd that, when one of the protagonists (and a monk, to boot !) wishes to enter the 'Centre for the Administration of peace and order', to talk with representatives of that supposedly neutral & peaceful organisation, he is greeted by police using tear-gas and water-cannon, rather than escorted inside to meet Chalerm or whoever ?

Shades of Burma & SLORC, or perhaps eternal friends Cambodia & Hun Sen, or what !

No. It's shades of kid gloves for way too long. This 'monk' was trying to take over the office, as indicated in the satements by Suthep. He needs to be in a prison cell...really soon.

So do many others - on both sides, including the one on the run. Won't happen though.

No one really believes CAPO to be neutral and peaceful and there to protect all members of society do they?

So if you are a caretaker cabinet member removed from office for an illegal act can you still carry on as if nothing has happened? Ignoring reality and carrying on regardless is a PTP trait though.

[rubl]

Been watching Al Jazeera, BBC and CNA and they are all saying the same thing...its not about corruption. its about being in control when.......... to control........... 3 reputable news Channels telling it as it is. Not how the Suthep cronies on here want you to believe

Clearly Al-Yazeera manages to be somewhat impartial.

Interesting though they quote another "the world mourns" person.

""The credibility of the justice system has vaporized," said Thongchain Winichakul, a professor of Southeast Asian history at the University of Wisconsin. ``The royalist conservatives may celebrate this judicial coup. But the world will mourn over the death of another democracy.""

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/05/thai-pm-found-guilty-abuse-power-20145763848681647.html

[Soutpeel]

Could your bangkok friend be messing with you?

Or of course "city" could just be making it up

[ggt]

Just another day in paradise...!

[Baerboxer]

Now that Yingluck is not at the helm I hope the police can finally use the necessary force required to put an end to illegal occupation of Changwantana. Water and tear gas is too nice for these people. Enough break-ins to the government buildings already, let the citizens and gov. workers get back to use these streets and buildings for what they are intended for!

That would be a fair point if the police were professional, impartial, and actually enforced all the law equally and without favor. Do you really think Yingluck has ever been at the helm? On the bridge in her Burberry wellies steering "the ship" through the terrible storms like a diligent captain?

[wolf5370]

Prove it!

he has broken Thai Buddhist rules for Thai Monks

A bhikkhu's wrong mode of livelihood also includes:

"running messages and errands for kings, ministers of state, householders, etc. A modern example would be participating in political campaigns." (BMC p.152)

... Or in the fake yellow shirt monks case, leading gun toting thugs in a political protest.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/ariyesako/layguide.html#fn-116

By the same logic YL was a fake PM as it has been proved she broke the rules governing her position. She was not fake, just in contravention of the rules, and so is he. Until he is thrown out, like she was, then he still is a monk just as she still was (caretaker) PM. There is reason for him to be disrobed, as you point out, but that does not make him fake - just not very obedient of his vows. Does he deserve less respect for such? Did YL before she was sacked?

[rubl]

No. It's shades of kid gloves for way too long. This 'monk' was trying to take over the office, as indicated in the satements by Suthep. He needs to be in a prison cell...really soon.

They said the same in Myanmar when monks led anti-government protests.

It's an insult to make the comparison. This 'monk' is a self-serving sleazebag not a freedom fighter.

Please keep it civil, will you.

Also please provide info to prove Buddha Issara is

- self-serving

- a sleazebag

- your definition of a sleazebag

Thank you,

uncle rubl

[wolf5370]

Clearly it killed his appetite for lunch...I can only see 6 dishes plus rice.

Yes a nice little 6 course meal

Assuming he still acts like a monk in other ways, he would have to accept offerings given and also allow what he does not eat to be consumed by others.

[moonao]

Prove it!

he has broken Thai Buddhist rules for Thai Monks

A bhikkhu's wrong mode of livelihood also includes:

"running messages and errands for kings, ministers of state, householders, etc. A modern example would be participating in political campaigns." (BMC p.152)

... Or in the fake yellow shirt monks case, leading gun toting thugs in a political protest.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/ariyesako/layguide.html#fn-116

By the same logic YL was a fake PM as it has been proved she broke the rules governing her position. She was not fake, just in contravention of the rules, and so is he. Until he is thrown out, like she was, then he still is a monk just as she still was (caretaker) PM. There is reason for him to be disrobed, as you point out, but that does not make him fake - just not very obedient of his vows. Does he deserve less respect for such? Did YL before she was sacked?

Actually their ordained status is forfeit after committing certain transgressions, and depending on the severity of the transgression. To take an extreme example, a monk is no longer a monk immediately after he commits murder, the disrobing is just a formality

[Baerboxer]

Been watching Al Jazeera, BBC and CNA and they are all saying the same thing...its not about corruption. its about being in control when.......... to control........... 3 reputable news Channels telling it as it is. Not how the Suthep cronies on here want you to believe

Clearly Al-Yazeera manages to be somewhat impartial.

Interesting though they quote another "the world mourns" person.

""The credibility of the justice system has vaporized," said Thongchain Winichakul, a professor of Southeast Asian history at the University of Wisconsin. ``The royalist conservatives may celebrate this judicial coup. But the world will mourn over the death of another democracy.""

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2014/05/thai-pm-found-guilty-abuse-power-20145763848681647.html

The BBC (Head) and FT (Peel) had articles that were very 'economic" with the facts. Saying Yingluck was dismissed for transferring a civil servant but neglecting to mention the bit about moving a crony and relative into a key position. Comparing it to a "Thai PM being dismissed for being on a TV cooking program" without mentioning the minor fact he perjured himself in court, and chose to resign.

The pro Thaksin aligned PR seems to permeate with this type of favorable journalism that doesn't quite tell the full story. Like AFP, others still portray PTP has having massive support in rural areas and fuel the idea this is a class war. Thaksin and his PR machine are certainly effective.

[Baerboxer]

No. It's shades of kid gloves for way too long. This 'monk' was trying to take over the office, as indicated in the satements by Suthep. He needs to be in a prison cell...really soon.

They said the same in Myanmar when monks led anti-government protests.

It's an insult to make the comparison. This 'monk' is a self-serving sleazebag not a freedom fighter.

Please keep it civil, will you.

Also please provide info to prove Buddha Issara is

- self-serving

- a sleazebag

- your definition of a sleazebag

Thank you,

uncle rubl

Interesting Prbkk and some other posters see anyone disagreeing with Thaksin, PTP, UDD as fit for attack with all manner of insults. Those serving their master are beyond reproach.

Presumably Prbkk thinks all the ousted former cabinet members are freedom fighters fighting for justice and democracy, ready to sacrifice themselves and honest as the day is long.

[wolf5370]

Teargas...had my share of it....

Not so bad if you keep your hands away from your face, especially your eyes.

Best thing is to wish for a good breeze, take off your shirt and hat, face the breeze and blow out the mucous.

The stuff remains in your clothing, thus remove as much as possible.

There are different grades of tear gas. The police were criticised earlier for using level 4 tear gas (military grade). Police usually use pepper spray or lower grade tear gas to disperse crowds. Look at the number of hospitalised last time to see the difference.

An old army test (Brit) was to sit in a wooden shed with a gas mask. Tear gas is pumped in and then you have to last 30 seconds without the tear gas. It is excruciating and lasts for hours after, not seconds. It does stay in the clothes - but pepper spray does more so - so I wonder if it was not that that you have had experience with.

[Mango Bob]

The monk was given a bath about 12;20 PM and then he is seen eating food in the afternoon. I maybe wrong here but would a real monk be eating in the afternoon? Of course that is if he was a real monk.

[Eric Loh]

The mad monk is angry and have filed a attempt murder report. Angry because he been sprayed? He should asked those who have been hurt and killed by his own guards.

[marinediscoking]

Now that Yingluck is not at the helm I hope the police can finally use the necessary force required to put an end to illegal occupation of Changwantana. Water and tear gas is too nice for these people. Enough break-ins to the government buildings already, let the citizens and gov. workers get back to use these streets and buildings for what they are intended for!

That would be a fair point if the police were professional, impartial, and actually enforced all the law equally and without favor. Do you really think Yingluck has ever been at the helm? On the bridge in her Burberry wellies steering "the ship" through the terrible storms like a diligent captain?

By that logic if she wasn't at the helm she should have been held responsible for the transfer and not removed as caretaker PM.

Most of the police before were not allowed to have bullets. The police should use the same force that Abhisit and Suthep ordered back in 2010.

[diehard60]

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Nickymaster, on 09 May 2014 - 14:27, said:

The monk is injured and all the reds here are celebrating. It doesn't take much for peanut brains to be happy.

Now that think about it, they were also celebrating when children where killed.

Yesterday you were celebrating the German reporter being attack, now the table have changed and your crying fowl. Also stop hiding behind children. No prove who did it except your lies that it was red shirts.

Thanks for that - I never understood this stupid argument anyway exploiting the sad death of children to somehow gain sympathy for one side without having a shred of evidence who did it!

Also for me it really does not make a difference who has died - a child or a grown up - both are innocent victims it is almost as if the death of an innocent bystander who is an adult somehow counts less for some people - a life is a life young or old woman or man!

Theres total proof that red shirt cowards killed children - namely the policeman that was standing next to them telling them where to fire - stop being a lying red shirt sympathiser and a troll!!!

You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to sleep.

[love1012]

He shouldn't be afraid to die - because if he was really and honestly fighting for a higher cause, he will be reborn is a state of grace or he might even reach that state of enlightenment many Buddhists aspire for.. or are the temptations of Earthly desires too tempting?

If people really wanted to murder the fake monk, I doubt they would use a water cannon... Just a thought and not a suggestion...

Most people I have talked to , in Temples and outside of Temples, believe this monk is fake and will be reborn as a dog, or a buffalo, due to the bad karma he has generated and the damage he has done to Buddhism

Many monks I know believe red shirt sympathisers on TV will be reborn as cockroaches or rats for the insults they've made to normal peoples intelligence!!!!!!

Edited May 9, 2014 by love1012

[Soutpeel]

Interesting Prbkk and some other posters see anyone disagreeing with Thaksin, PTP, UDD as fit for attack with all manner of insults. Those serving their master are beyond reproach.

Presumably Prbkk thinks all the ousted former cabinet members are freedom fighters fighting for justice and democracy, ready to sacrifice themselves and honest as the day is long.

One suspects the posters mentioned would be hurling M-79 grenades at the other TV members who disagreed with them, if they could...

Maybe someone could come up with a M-79 "smilely" for the rabid reds TV posters so they can feel more at one with their "redness"...

or how about a "burn Bangkok" smiley or a Jataporn/Thaksin/Yingluck Smiley.....we already have a drunken smilely which can be used for the esteemed minister for ear medicine...

[Mango Bob]

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love1012, on 09 May 2014 - 17:06, said:

moonao, on 09 May 2014 - 15:59, said:

toybits, on 09 May 2014 - 15:30, said:

He shouldn't be afraid to die - because if he was really and honestly fighting for a higher cause, he will be reborn is a state of grace or he might even reach that state of enlightenment many Buddhists aspire for.. or are the temptations of Earthly desires too tempting?

If people really wanted to murder the fake monk, I doubt they would use a water cannon... Just a thought and not a suggestion...

Most people I have talked to , in Temples and outside of Temples, believe this monk is fake and will be reborn as a dog, or a buffalo, due to the bad karma he has generated and the damage he has done to Buddhism

Many monks I know believe red shirt sympathisers on TV will be reborn as cockroaches or rats for the insults they've made to normal peoples intelligence!!!!!!

Many monks I know believe red shirt Suthep supporters sympathizers on TV will be reborn as cockroaches or rates for the insults they've made to normal peoples intelligences

Edited May 9, 2014 by Mango Bob

[rubl]

Interesting Prbkk and some other posters see anyone disagreeing with Thaksin, PTP, UDD as fit for attack with all manner of insults. Those serving their master are beyond reproach.

Presumably Prbkk thinks all the ousted former cabinet members are freedom fighters fighting for justice and democracy, ready to sacrifice themselves and honest as the day is long.

One suspects the posters mentioned would be hurling M-79 grenades at the other TV members who disagreed with them, if they could...

Maybe someone could come up with a M-79 "smilely" for the rabid reds TV posters so they can feel more at one with their "redness"...

or how about a "burn Bangkok" smiley or a Jataporn/Thaksin/Yingluck Smiley.....we already have a drunken smilely which can be used for the esteemed minister for ear medicine...

To be fair we'd also need an Abhisit, Suthep and Buddha Issara smiley and although no longer PM or involved a Yingluck smiley.

ADD: on specific request also a cockroach smiley to make reborn members feel at home here on TV

Edited May 9, 2014 by rubl

[Just1Voice]

Putting on orange robes and shaving your head does not a monk make! This clown is about as much of a monk as I am.

Prove it!

Very simple. Monks are supposed to be non-violent, yet his "bodyguards" have numerous accounts of beating, shooting and killing people, which he condones, citing his own safety as justifiable reasons. Monks are forbidden to take part in politics, yet here he is leading one of the biggest, and most violent in regards to "guards", protest groups. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Do you have evidence of his condoning such action? Not saying it does not exist, but that would certainly be cause for disrobing. He is a monk because he was ordained as such; however, he is breaking his vows by participating in politics, and maybe should not be a monk any longer. That does not make him a fake however, not yet at least.

If you condone and support violence by your followers, violate the law, and partake in activities that are against the Buddhist beliefs and governing body, then you are no longer a monk in spirit, only in clothing. That makes you a fake.

[Soutpeel]

Interesting Prbkk and some other posters see anyone disagreeing with Thaksin, PTP, UDD as fit for attack with all manner of insults. Those serving their master are beyond reproach.

Presumably Prbkk thinks all the ousted former cabinet members are freedom fighters fighting for justice and democracy, ready to sacrifice themselves and honest as the day is long.

One suspects the posters mentioned would be hurling M-79 grenades at the other TV members who disagreed with them, if they could...

Maybe someone could come up with a M-79 "smilely" for the rabid reds TV posters so they can feel more at one with their "redness"...

or how about a "burn Bangkok" smiley or a Jataporn/Thaksin/Yingluck Smiley.....we already have a drunken smilely which can be used for the esteemed minister for ear medicine...

To be fair we'd also need an Abhisit, Suthep and Buddha Issara smiley and although no longer PM or involved a Yingluck smiley.

of course we have a democracy on TV...could I suggest the no longer ex PM Yingie smilely be designed by Burberry ?

[love1012]

Thanks for that - I never understood this stupid argument anyway exploiting the sad death of children to somehow gain sympathy for one side without having a shred of evidence who did it!

Also for me it really does not make a difference who has died - a child or a grown up - both are innocent victims it is almost as if the death of an innocent bystander who is an adult somehow counts less for some people - a life is a life young or old woman or man!

Theres total proof that red shirt cowards killed children - namely the policeman that was standing next to them telling them where to fire - stop being a lying red shirt sympathiser and a troll!!!

You have no idea what you are talking about. Go back to sleep.

I can post better in my sleep than you can with a year to think about it.................now stop boring us all and go back to the bar...........your seats getting cold and you haven't paid your bill!!!

[rubl]

Very simple. Monks are supposed to be non-violent, yet his "bodyguards" have numerous accounts of beating, shooting and killing people, which he condones, citing his own safety as justifiable reasons. Monks are forbidden to take part in politics, yet here he is leading one of the biggest, and most violent in regards to "guards", protest groups. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

Do you have evidence of his condoning such action? Not saying it does not exist, but that would certainly be cause for disrobing. He is a monk because he was ordained as such; however, he is breaking his vows by participating in politics, and maybe should not be a monk any longer. That does not make him a fake however, not yet at least.

If you condone and support violence by your followers, violate the law, and partake in activities that are against the Buddhist beliefs and governing body, then you are no longer a monk in spirit, only in clothing. That makes you a fake.

The Myanmar government from a while ago would totally agree with you. They also stated monks should stay in their temple and not meddle in politics.

[love1012]

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love1012, on 09 May 2014 - 17:06, said:

moonao, on 09 May 2014 - 15:59, said:

toybits, on 09 May 2014 - 15:30, said:

He shouldn't be afraid to die - because if he was really and honestly fighting for a higher cause, he will be reborn is a state of grace or he might even reach that state of enlightenment many Buddhists aspire for.. or are the temptations of Earthly desires too tempting?

If people really wanted to murder the fake monk, I doubt they would use a water cannon... Just a thought and not a suggestion...

Most people I have talked to , in Temples and outside of Temples, believe this monk is fake and will be reborn as a dog, or a buffalo, due to the bad karma he has generated and the damage he has done to Buddhism

Many monks I know believe red shirt sympathisers on TV will be reborn as cockroaches or rats for the insults they've made to normal peoples intelligence!!!!!!

Many monks I know believe red shirt Suthep supporters sympathizers on TV will be reborn as cockroaches or rates for the insults they've made to normal peoples intelligences

You have the lack of wit and creativity of a true red shirt!!!! By the way - whats a rate? and how do you get "intelligences"!!

Edited May 9, 2014 by love1012

[wolf5370]

By the same logic YL was a fake PM as it has been proved she broke the rules governing her position. She was not fake, just in contravention of the rules, and so is he. Until he is thrown out, like she was, then he still is a monk just as she still was (caretaker) PM. There is reason for him to be disrobed, as you point out, but that does not make him fake - just not very obedient of his vows. Does he deserve less respect for such? Did YL before she was sacked?

Actually their ordained status is forfeit after committing certain transgressions, and depending on the severity of the transgression. To take an extreme example, a monk is no longer a monk immediately after he commits murder, the disrobing is just a formality

Interesting I was unaware of that - thanks for the info. I guess if he has condoned violence then that would be one such transgression, not sure protesting (or "acting as a laymen") would be construed as severe enough??? Personally I would like to either see him go back to his temple and stay out of it, or take his robes off - I think whatever side you are on (or none - like me) it would be hard not to agree that he is using his position as a monk overtly and thus bringing it into disrepute.

[love1012]

By the same logic YL was a fake PM as it has been proved she broke the rules governing her position. She was not fake, just in contravention of the rules, and so is he. Until he is thrown out, like she was, then he still is a monk just as she still was (caretaker) PM. There is reason for him to be disrobed, as you point out, but that does not make him fake - just not very obedient of his vows. Does he deserve less respect for such? Did YL before she was sacked?

Actually their ordained status is forfeit after committing certain transgressions, and depending on the severity of the transgression. To take an extreme example, a monk is no longer a monk immediately after he commits murder, the disrobing is just a formality

Interesting I was unaware of that - thanks for the info. I guess if he has condoned violence then that would be one such transgression, not sure protesting (or "acting as a laymen") would be construed as severe enough??? Personally I would like to either see him go back to his temple and stay out of it, or take his robes off - I think whatever side you are on (or none - like me) it would be hard not to agree that he is using his position as a monk overtly and thus bringing it into disrepute.

does that go for red shirt monks spraying blood round abhisits house or are they exempt?

[ratcatcher]

Putting on orange robes and shaving your head does not a monk make! This clown is about as much of a monk as I am.

Prove it!

Very simple. Monks are supposed to be non-violent, yet his "bodyguards" have numerous accounts of beating, shooting and killing people, which he condones, citing his own safety as justifiable reasons. Monks are forbidden to take part in politics, yet here he is leading one of the biggest, and most violent in regards to "guards", protest groups. Is that simple enough for you to understand?

"Monks are forbidden to take part in politics,................."

Quite true and to prove it here are some pictures of non-political monks.

Starting with this character.