Showdown looming

[Morch]

"The red shirts cannot accept the undemocratic and unconstitutional appointment of a prime minister. It would be the beginning of a disaster for the country that will lead to civil war,"

The only language the red shirts know we get what we want or we will kill you.

To both sides how about lets talk and find a solution that we all can live with.

The red-shirt's stance isn't all that different from the PDRC's:

"The people hope there will be a new prime minister of the people by Monday. If not, we will have no choice but to take action by ourselves. We can't allow the country to continue like this anymore," Suthep said.

Basically, both say "my way or the highway".

Neither Jatuporn nor Suthep is capable of reaching an agreement or have the mandate to do so.

Except that Suthep is a lunatic barking on the street while the PTP government actually has the power and means to do something constructive... it would be a first, but they could if they really wanted.

Thought the current thinking of the anti-government side was that there is no proper government as such.

Suthep got a lot to do with this, refusing negotiations and talks, rather issuing ultimatums.

The problem is that Suthep, for most intents and purposes, holds the key to the Democrat Party apparatus in the South, so while he claims to be independent, that's probably true in regards to himself, not so sure about the Democrats.

Someone needs to talk with someone, that's for sure. Probably not any of the front stage and center faces.

[BlueNoseCodger]

Their judicial coup has failed. They failed to remove the government, the PM jobs were simply allocated to the deputy PMs and the Constitution says they stay in power till the next Cabinet takes over (which must be formed from the elected house).

The coup lot, broke their Senate special session decree limits when appointing their guy as Speaker of the Senate. They were in special session, and needed a royal decree to meet, that decree limited them to the house keeping jobs. It did not include choosing a new Senate Speaker, so they broke the law in choosing a new Senate Speaker. Impeachable.

The man appointed as Speaker, was the man who called on the Senate to ignore their Royal Decree limits. A direct conflict of interests. Impeachable.

They can't hold a senate meeting without the government writing another decree and submitting it for approval. Since the elected house is not in session till after an election, any meeting would be a special session. So the government has to write the law that permits their special meeting. Not going to happen.

Legally any PM must be elected, from the House of Representatives and not a Senator and not anyone else. The name must be submitted from the Leader of the House of Representatives. So the idea that they can choose a Suthep crony and simply appoint him using the Senate is just a comedy legal fiction.

The international press is not fooled, and so the coup by legal trickery has failed, the world would sanction them. Block free travel, refuse student visas for their rich brats, seize their assets and so on.

Most likely the government will refuse to cooperate with their legal trickery as the Election Commission is refusing to run an election. So their coup groups remaining real power here is the Election Commissioners refusing to run the election.

So what options are open:

1) Elections. EC suddenly decides to do its legal duty and hold an election. We elect a new PM, we all go on happy. Well except the coup lot, who see their power diminished.

The big obstacle to that is Suthep blocking the votes in the South. The South is supposed to be his stronghold, but enough voters want rid of him, that if he permits the vote in the South, they will vote someone else into power instead of his cronies. So he will try to block voting in the south no matter what. Plus Military has agreed to assist in the elections, which would make that blocking impossible.

2) Military arrests Suthep. Matter ends, we head for elections and stability, like before this failed coup attempt. We all blame Suthep, it's all Sutheps fault, and move on from this.

3) Military has successful coup? And pigs will fly! Prayuth has no single military target to grab that can signal the others of the victory. Grab government house? It's already held by the military. Grab Yingluk? She's already been removed as PM. He'd run his tanks around Bangkok without anything to capture and yet still not control the people!

And then what? They don't have a leader to appoint. They proposed the geriatrics. He'd have to run elections, but rigged ones, and how are elections even more rigged than the rigged senate ones suppose to win the people over?!

Not a win scenario I think.

No 2) seem to be the best option. The coup lot keep their power mostly intact. Face is saved. Democracy continues. We have a scape goat to point at in Suthep.

Edited May 11, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[daveAustin]

Its worse than a Thai Soap and getting more stupid by the minute

Indeed, while there needs to be change in government, a big change is needed in society. Thailand, sadly, is heading for failed state status.

[belg]

with all those hotheads and their toys & guns, i am surprised to see this not being a massive scale clash yet

[dude123]

with all those hotheads and their toys & guns, i am surprised to see this not being a massive scale clash yet

Me too but that's a good thing. As long as both sides don't drag Thailand into a mini civil war, things could calm down again.

[Scamper]

The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative is that a prime minister can be appointed outside the provisions of the constitution - through half a caretaker cabinet, while the constitution allows only for the nomination of a prime minister through a quorum-filled parliament, or through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative therefore is false and unconstitutional. And Jatuporn - to the surprise of no one outside his rabid supporters - is full of hot air. Pheu Thai is now focusing their remaining energies on preventing the Senate from opening, even though the Senate is now constitutionally obligated to initiate impeachment hearings concerning Yingluck, as a result of a formal recommendation from the National Anti-Corruption Commission - which is an agency also empowered by the constitution. Pheu Thai's reasoning is - just prevent the Senate from opening. As simple as that. Phue Thai therefore is willfully impeding the constitutional process. Pheu Thai, the UDD, and their supporters' position is therefore untenable and indefensible - from every legal and constitutional standpoint.

[Asiantravel]

“ The PDRC threatened to do "what is necessary" to bring about an appointed "people's government" if the caretaker administration does not resign within 72 hours. “

There you go…………….. A clear statement from a “ would be” fascist leader

you wouldn't know a fascist leader if it jumped out of a tree hooting "I'm a fascist leader> you only know what is passed down the buffalo line from `dubai

" Fascism is very much a mob movement "

P. J. O'Rourke

[Just1Voice]

Suthep is the biggest hypocrite on this planet because of all people should be aware of the legal validity of the caretaker government.

He and his Democrat Party conveniently used to the brief period of Chavarat Charnvirakul's caretaker role after Somchai Wongsawat was ousted

and promising the Thai people all the things that they would do and then ripping them off

Is called What ?

How about we just say we need new reforms and start a new

would that satisfy you ?

Bring it on!

Lets see the full extent of the proposed reforms now (with no room to add any more or change them later), let's see a full list of the members of the proposed People's Council with their backgrounds and let's have a firm date for the next general election now......

deathly silence

are you for real

who do you want to bring it all on ?

The reform has to be put together by all parties, or you think only Suthep or PTP has the rights to make reforms

The basic idea starts with

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

then each party to present his own ideas

then a full set to be made and put to the people

well that is the idea that I am led to believe

or do you believe it should all be done in back rooms like PTP always does

some would think that "We need to reform the way that many TVF members think "

While I basically agree with you, it is NOT the way, according to Suthep. In his delusional world, only HE gets to say what reforms there are. Only HE get's to pick a "neutral government". How many times has he basically said: "It's MY way or the highway"? More than I can count.

[Thait Spot]

All this "judicial coup" nonsense has been polluting the airwaves for months.

The beast is not dead. It is polycephalic like some hideous hydra but the beast lives nonetheless.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[fab4]

The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative is that a prime minister can be appointed outside the provisions of the constitution - through half a caretaker cabinet, while the constitution allows only for the nomination of a prime minister through a quorum-filled parliament, or through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative therefore is false and unconstitutional. And Jatuporn - to the surprise of no one outside his rabid supporters - is full of hot air. Pheu Thai is now focusing their remaining energies on preventing the Senate from opening, even though the Senate is now constitutionally obligated to initiate impeachment hearings concerning Yingluck, as a result of a formal recommendation from the National Anti-Corruption Commission - which is an agency also empowered by the constitution. Pheu Thai's reasoning is - just prevent the Senate from opening. As simple as that. Phue Thai therefore is willfully impeding the constitutional process. Pheu Thai, the UDD, and their supporters' position is therefore untenable and indefensible - from every legal and constitutional standpoint.

Jatuporn is full of hot air.

For someone full of hot air he has more of a handle on the political situation than you have, scamper. The reality:

The election for President of the Senate is illegal as the Senate meeting was called to endorse Supa Piyajutti as a new member of the NACC and the appointing of Administration Court specialists only, the election for Senate President was not on the Agenda, until Surachai made it so.

Notwithstanding that legal question mark, there is also the little problem that Surachai needs to receive Royal endorsement before his Presidency is legal. The only person that can put forward that endorsement request is the PM.

Now if, as suthep declares, the PM is not legally in the job, he cannot forward the endorsement for Senate President, therefore the Senate President is not legally able to do anything until he receives that endorsement, so he (and the Senate) cannot put forward a new PM. Therefore the current PM and his cabinet stay on as caretaker government until the EC finally gives up and organises a new Election.

It's not rocket science.

I believe that the PTP's position is perfectly reasonable and defensible from every legal and constitutional standpoint - as far as this justice system will allow it to be that is.

[Dr Bruce]

Suthep and Jatuporn exchanging blows. Bad for Thailand.

Neither thinks of 'the people'.

Time for elected (no matter how crooked those elections were) people, both government and opposition, to sit down and find a way out.

Abhisit graciously has said not to join new elections, to take the sting out of things. If the Shins do the same. A business government agreed upon by BOTH sides can be established. Change some laws and get on with elections that all will abide by.

Thailand needs a way out. Be responsible.

we all want new elections, but they have to be democratic and constitutional

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

Ah come on Tezz, if section 102 was enforced about three quarters of PT would be out on their ear.

But seriously, section 102 needs to be expanded to cover anyone with a criminal conviction.

And anyone on bail or waiting for a criminal case to be heard against them should be suspended until such time they are found not guilty, if guilty the above applies.

That would cover the other quarter of PT, many of the smaller parties and a few of the Dems.

Then and only then could this country get a Government that would be suitable for role models for the kids.

This would cover anybody that the Ammart does not want in power.

If Thailand had truly independant courts your suggestion would work, but until that day it would just add to the problems and divisivness that is ruining this country.

[Morch]

The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative is that a prime minister can be appointed outside the provisions of the constitution - through half a caretaker cabinet, while the constitution allows only for the nomination of a prime minister through a quorum-filled parliament, or through the Senate in the event of a quorum-less parliament. The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative therefore is false and unconstitutional. And Jatuporn - to the surprise of no one outside his rabid supporters - is full of hot air. Pheu Thai is now focusing their remaining energies on preventing the Senate from opening, even though the Senate is now constitutionally obligated to initiate impeachment hearings concerning Yingluck, as a result of a formal recommendation from the National Anti-Corruption Commission - which is an agency also empowered by the constitution. Pheu Thai's reasoning is - just prevent the Senate from opening. As simple as that. Phue Thai therefore is willfully impeding the constitutional process. Pheu Thai, the UDD, and their supporters' position is therefore untenable and indefensible - from every legal and constitutional standpoint.

How does Suthep's ultimatum to sort things until Monday seat with the constitution?

And just in case I missed something, is "The Pheu Thai/UDD narrative" the new catchphrase?

[MaxLee]

A country ruled by lunatics on both sides, no matter Pro- or Anti-government,... god mercy on the Thai Nation...

[BlueNoseCodger]

Their judicial coup has failed. They failed to remove the government, the PM jobs were simply allocated to the deputy PMs and the Constitution says they stay in power till the next Cabinet takes over (which must be formed from the elected house).

The coup lot, broke their Senate special session decree limits when appointing their guy as Speaker of the Senate. They were in special session, and needed a royal decree to meet, that decree limited them to the house keeping jobs. It did not include choosing a new Senate Speaker, so they broke the law in choosing a new Senate Speaker. Impeachable.

The man appointed as Speaker, was the man who called on the Senate to ignore their Royal Decree limits. A direct conflict of interests. Impeachable.

They can't hold a senate meeting without the government writing another decree and submitting it for approval. Since the elected house is not in session till after an election, any meeting would be a special session. So the government has to write the law that permits their special meeting. Not going to happen.

Legally any PM must be elected, from the House of Representatives and not a Senator and not anyone else. The name must be submitted from the Leader of the House of Representatives. So the idea that they can choose a Suthep crony and simply appoint him using the Senate is just a comedy legal fiction.

The international press is not fooled, and so the coup by legal trickery has failed, the world would sanction them. Block free travel, refuse student visas for their rich brats, seize their assets and so on.

Most likely the government will refuse to cooperate with their legal trickery as the Election Commission is refusing to run an election. So their coup groups remaining real power here is the Election Commissioners refusing to run the election.

So what options are open:

1) Elections. EC suddenly decides to do its legal duty and hold an election. We elect a new PM, we all go on happy. Well except the coup lot, who see their power diminished.

The big obstacle to that is Suthep blocking the votes in the South. The South is supposed to be his stronghold, but enough voters want rid of him, that if he permits the vote in the South, they will vote someone else into power instead of his cronies. So he will try to block voting in the south no matter what. Plus Military has agreed to assist in the elections, which would make that blocking impossible.

2) Military arrests Suthep. Matter ends, we head for elections and stability, like before this failed coup attempt. We all blame Suthep, it's all Sutheps fault, and move on from this.

3) Military has successful coup? And pigs will fly! Prayuth has no single military target to grab that can signal the others of the victory. Grab government house? It's already held by the military. Grab Yingluk? She's already been removed as PM. He'd run his tanks around Bangkok without anything to capture and yet still not control the people!

And then what? They don't have a leader to appoint. They proposed the geriatrics. He'd have to run elections, but rigged ones, and how are elections even more rigged than the rigged senate ones suppose to win the people over?!

Not a win scenario I think.

No 2) seem to be the best option. The coup lot keep their power mostly intact. Face is saved. Democracy continues. We have a scape goat to point at in Suthep.

Under 2) What does Abhisit do?

IMHO, Abhisit should go with Suthep. Throw both of them to the wolves. Both are charged with murder for setting the army on the people in 2010. He's aligned himself with Suthep and he's not going to un-align himself so he has to go too. The murder charge would be a nice way of wrapping this up. It would also let the army have a face saving scape goat for 2010. Another big plus for Prayuth and the military.

Otherwise Abhisit will just run around trying to talk down elections undermining the yellow vote, and dividing it.

Edited May 11, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[bigbamboo]

Their judicial coup has failed. They failed to remove the government, the PM jobs were simply allocated to the deputy PMs and the Constitution says they stay in power till the next Cabinet takes over (which must be formed from the elected house).

The coup lot, broke their Senate special session decree limits when appointing their guy as Speaker of the Senate. They were in special session, and needed a royal decree to meet, that decree limited them to the house keeping jobs. It did not include choosing a new Senate Speaker, so they broke the law in choosing a new Senate Speaker. Impeachable.

The man appointed as Speaker, was the man who called on the Senate to ignore their Royal Decree limits. A direct conflict of interests. Impeachable.

They can't hold a senate meeting without the government writing another decree and submitting it for approval. Since the elected house is not in session till after an election, any meeting would be a special session. So the government has to write the law that permits their special meeting. Not going to happen.

Legally any PM must be elected, from the House of Representatives and not a Senator and not anyone else. The name must be submitted from the Leader of the House of Representatives. So the idea that they can choose a Suthep crony and simply appoint him using the Senate is just a comedy legal fiction.

The international press is not fooled, and so the coup by legal trickery has failed, the world would sanction them. Block free travel, refuse student visas for their rich brats, seize their assets and so on.

Most likely the government will refuse to cooperate with their legal trickery as the Election Commission is refusing to run an election. So their coup groups remaining real power here is the Election Commissioners refusing to run the election.

So what options are open:

1) Elections. EC suddenly decides to do its legal duty and hold an election. We elect a new PM, we all go on happy. Well except the coup lot, who see their power diminished.

The big obstacle to that is Suthep blocking the votes in the South. The South is supposed to be his stronghold, but enough voters want rid of him, that if he permits the vote in the South, they will vote someone else into power instead of his cronies. So he will try to block voting in the south no matter what. Plus Military has agreed to assist in the elections, which would make that blocking impossible.

2) Military arrests Suthep. Matter ends, we head for elections and stability, like before this failed coup attempt. We all blame Suthep, it's all Sutheps fault, and move on from this.

3) Military has successful coup? And pigs will fly! Prayuth has no single military target to grab that can signal the others of the victory. Grab government house? It's already held by the military. Grab Yingluk? She's already been removed as PM. He'd run his tanks around Bangkok without anything to capture and yet still not control the people!

And then what? They don't have a leader to appoint. They proposed the geriatrics. He'd have to run elections, but rigged ones, and how are elections even more rigged than the rigged senate ones suppose to win the people over?!

Not a win scenario I think.

No 2) seem to be the best option. The coup lot keep their power mostly intact. Face is saved. Democracy continues. We have a scape goat to point at in Suthep.

There was no judicial coup. The caretaker PM and some of her ministers were found guilty of an abuse of power and removed from their positions. The rest of the government who were not involved stay.

The best they can do is plead is the 'Nuremburg Defence' i.e. that they were only following orders.

[Robby nz]

Suthep and Jatuporn exchanging blows. Bad for Thailand.

Neither thinks of 'the people'.

Time for elected (no matter how crooked those elections were) people, both government and opposition, to sit down and find a way out.

Abhisit graciously has said not to join new elections, to take the sting out of things. If the Shins do the same. A business government agreed upon by BOTH sides can be established. Change some laws and get on with elections that all will abide by.

Thailand needs a way out. Be responsible.

we all want new elections, but they have to be democratic and constitutional

No 1) we need freedom of speech by all parties in all areas

No 2) Section 102 Enforced

A person under any of the following prohibitions shall have no right to be a candidate in an election of members of the House of Representatives:

(6) having been expelled, dismissed or removed from the official service, a State agency or a State enterprise on the ground of dishonest performance of duties or corruption;

3) All parties yellow and red to abide by the rule of law

Ah come on Tezz, if section 102 was enforced about three quarters of PT would be out on their ear.

But seriously, section 102 needs to be expanded to cover anyone with a criminal conviction.

And anyone on bail or waiting for a criminal case to be heard against them should be suspended until such time they are found not guilty, if guilty the above applies.

That would cover the other quarter of PT, many of the smaller parties and a few of the Dems.

Then and only then could this country get a Government that would be suitable for role models for the kids.

so this is your interpretation of the Law

it can not be used because

"three quarters of PT would be out on their ear."

Only on TVF does a law only need to be enforced if it is accepted by the people who break it

Do not do the crime if your not ready to do the time, is a simple answer

and now you want people on bail to face the same

so not innocent till found guilty has no place in you home

if this LAW is upheld then we both agree

Then and only then could this country get a Government that would be suitable for role models for the kids.

I suspect you are misunderstanding my post just a little.

Try reading the first sentence again then the next 2 words.

Innocent till found guilty sure, however we are talking here about parliamentary representatives of the people and wanting good and honest people as MP's and senators.

I would have thought the word 'suspended' rather than banned, would in the case of someone on bail waiting appeal, or someone waiting to have a serious charge against them would cover the possibility of them being found not guilty.

To explain farther; should a person suspended as per the previous sentence be found guilty then they are banned.

If found not guilty they are free of the suspension and could then stand for office.

Then and only then could this country get a Government that would be suitable for role models for the kids.

To add, there would have to be a cut off point as to what was a conviction serious enough to warrant a ban, for instance ; speeding, not wearing a helmet on a motorcy 20 years ago or something similar would not count.

Don't know about Thailand but elsewhere things are divided into crime and misdemeanor so that could be a cut off point.

[hbullinger]

Wrong colour shirt for the Nazi salute. Change to brown!

[Gweiloman]

Suthep is the biggest hypocrite on this planet because of all people should be aware of the legal validity of the caretaker government.

He and his Democrat Party conveniently used to the brief period of Chavarat Charnvirakul's caretaker role after Somchai Wongsawat was ousted

and promising the Thai people all the things that they would do and then ripping them off

Is called What ?

How about we just say we need new reforms and start a new

would that satisfy you ?

Bring it on!

Lets see the full extent of the proposed reforms now (with no room to add any more or change them later), let's see a full list of the members of the proposed People's Council with their backgrounds and let's have a firm date for the next general election now......

deathly silence

The biggest problem with Free Speech is that it allows a fool to talk

and then show every body that he is a fool

Don't be so harsh on yourself Tezz.

[Gweiloman]

I remember not so long ago that things were hunky dory in the Land of Smiles. We had great weather, sitting outside in the evenings in beer gardens, good food, good drink. Economy was doing well, everyone was at peace with each other, regardless of ideology. Soi Cowboi was rocking every night, tourist numbers were up and most were planning their Christmas and New Year holidays.

Then along came Suthep and the PDRC to rock the boat. They wanted to challenge the amnesty bill. While I personally believed that the bill was a necessary evil in order for Thailand to move forward, I accept that it rubbed against the grain for a lot of people and had to be overturned which (I believe) it was.

That should have been the end of the matter. Instead the anti-govt protesters were emboldened and decided to push their luck further. They had great turnouts on the issues of corruption - understandably so as most Thais would love to see their country "less" corrupted. However, the fight against corruption should have taken place in the courts, not on the streets.

At the same time, the protesters decided that they also wanted the Shins out (of politics, of the country?). Things were starting to get personal here.

To cut a long story short, the situation that Thailand finds itself in today is a direct consequence of those actions of Suthep and his merry men back in November. Does anybody think that this is a good place for Thailand to be in? No government,farmers unpaid (?), talks of violence and even civil war and no resolution in sight.

Does anybody think that there could have been better means adopted to justify the end?

[h90]

I remember not so long ago that things were hunky dory in the Land of Smiles. We had great weather, sitting outside in the evenings in beer gardens, good food, good drink. Economy was doing well, everyone was at peace with each other, regardless of ideology. Soi Cowboi was rocking every night, tourist numbers were up and most were planning their Christmas and New Year holidays.

Then along came Suthep and the PDRC to rock the boat. They wanted to challenge the amnesty bill. While I personally believed that the bill was a necessary evil in order for Thailand to move forward, I accept that it rubbed against the grain for a lot of people and had to be overturned which (I believe) it was.

That should have been the end of the matter. Instead the anti-govt protesters were emboldened and decided to push their luck further. They had great turnouts on the issues of corruption - understandably so as most Thais would love to see their country "less" corrupted. However, the fight against corruption should have taken place in the courts, not on the streets.

At the same time, the protesters decided that they also wanted the Shins out (of politics, of the country?). Things were starting to get personal here.

To cut a long story short, the situation that Thailand finds itself in today is a direct consequence of those actions of Suthep and his merry men back in November. Does anybody think that this is a good place for Thailand to be in? No government,farmers unpaid (?), talks of violence and even civil war and no resolution in sight.

Does anybody think that there could have been better means adopted to justify the end?

But you noticed that there were last minute changes in the amnesty bill that would have pardoned 25.000 cases of corruption. That it time frame was made longer so it also covered this government and it would have gave back Thaksin his stolen money.

If it would have been a "normal" amnesty bill for political things and maybe even allow Thaksin to come back, I would agree. But they want just everything and the future on the amnesty. That triggered it and every moderate person saw that such people can't rule the country.

That on the election were 5 Shinawatras on safe places to ensure they'll be in parliament is another detail

[plachon]

I note a certain similarity in appearance (and politics ?), between Jatuporn & Kim Jong Un, could they possibly be related ?

It confirms they share a similar taste in haircuts and taste for eating; but in terms of dynastic ties, intellectual limitations and tastes for the bizarre, I always imagine Nong Oak being Thailand's Kim Jong Un in waiting......

Edited May 12, 2014 by plachon

[Gweiloman]

I remember not so long ago that things were hunky dory in the Land of Smiles. We had great weather, sitting outside in the evenings in beer gardens, good food, good drink. Economy was doing well, everyone was at peace with each other, regardless of ideology. Soi Cowboi was rocking every night, tourist numbers were up and most were planning their Christmas and New Year holidays.

Then along came Suthep and the PDRC to rock the boat. They wanted to challenge the amnesty bill. While I personally believed that the bill was a necessary evil in order for Thailand to move forward, I accept that it rubbed against the grain for a lot of people and had to be overturned which (I believe) it was.

That should have been the end of the matter. Instead the anti-govt protesters were emboldened and decided to push their luck further. They had great turnouts on the issues of corruption - understandably so as most Thais would love to see their country "less" corrupted. However, the fight against corruption should have taken place in the courts, not on the streets.

At the same time, the protesters decided that they also wanted the Shins out (of politics, of the country?). Things were starting to get personal here.

To cut a long story short, the situation that Thailand finds itself in today is a direct consequence of those actions of Suthep and his merry men back in November. Does anybody think that this is a good place for Thailand to be in? No government,farmers unpaid (?), talks of violence and even civil war and no resolution in sight.

Does anybody think that there could have been better means adopted to justify the end?

But you noticed that there were last minute changes in the amnesty bill that would have pardoned 25.000 cases of corruption. That it time frame was made longer so it also covered this government and it would have gave back Thaksin his stolen money.

If it would have been a "normal" amnesty bill for political things and maybe even allow Thaksin to come back, I would agree. But they want just everything and the future on the amnesty. That triggered it and every moderate person saw that such people can't rule the country.

That on the election were 5 Shinawatras on safe places to ensure they'll be in parliament is another detail

As I said in my post, the amnesty bill was overturned. That was Suthep's victory and he should have been satisfied with that. However, you know the adage about giving a man an inch? Well, he wanted more and as a result, has brought Thailand to the brink of total chaos.