Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[Pralaad]

So lets get this right.

You saying it is a breach of human rights to stop allowing people doing runs to avoid having to pay for a proper visa? and it is somehow an obligation for a country to provide some people with FREE entry stamps or allow them to remain in the country somewhat illegally?

I know it is hard for you to understand what I was saying. Perhaps repeated reading will help.Oof course the best approach would be getting over your bitter, judgmental, ill--wishing attitude, but we can't hope for that much.

So that's a yes . You are under the impression that Thailand owes you something because you have decided to bless Thailand with your presence .

Naturally making you have visa and paying for it is a human rights violation.

Even more so for Thailand to dare stop you from working illegally or scamming system.

[Genericnic]

After wading through the 18 pages of comments here (and numerous other threads that are similar), what I see in the comments of those that don't/can't get a visa/work permit/etc. is a sense of entitlement on their part.

"I am from (add the appropriate country) and I am entitled to be here." "I spend a lot of money while I am here so I am entitled to be here." "I have property here so I am entitle to be here." "I have a family here so I am entitled to be here." You can add more if you like.

Absent proper paperwork in the form of a visa/work permit/etc., you are not entitled to be here. Your entitlement to be in any country ends as soon as you leave your home country (or the EU as applicable). Your ability to spend time in Thailand in excess of what is allowed under visa exempt or VOA rules requires that you comply with the laws of the Kingdom just as Thais are required to comply with the laws of your home country if they go there. There is no entitlement for you to be here.

If you are not able to meet the requirements for staying here - well, life is tough. People are turned away daily from my home country who are not able to meet the requirements to stay there. It may not be "fair" but life is like that.

Just my $0.02 worth.

David

You didn t understand.

I have said-in my case- that I am entitled to be here as tourist and buy a condo in my name as tourist and not for this reason it means i work illegaly.

I never overstayed for more than 1 day. I get my tourist visa,sometimes i go to Thailand for just 1 month and i use the visa exempt.

There is no reason why i should be refused, for which grounds ? I have never broke any Thai law.

But if the immigration officier is in bad mood and thinks I have too many stamps, he can turn me away.

This is like a russian rulette, not clear rules, strict or not strict. I don't like to depend on the mood of the random guy who will check my passport.

Actually you misunderstood. Note the bolded word in your second sentence (I added the bold for reference). Where does your "entitlement" to be here, even as a tourist, come from?

David

[culicine]

I don't think this will be a heartbreaker to most foreigners. They will start to congregate in another SEA country and start to improve that place while leaving Thailand short of many much needed English teachers etc....

The main broken hearts will be Thai ladies who will now find it much harder to snare a foreign sponsor with enough time in the country to strip every last baht out of him.

Come on girls.... you got a month or two if you are lucky to get everything.

I've never met a teacher in 15 years here who has had to do repeated in-out border runs (might occur for language schools, not regular schools). There are penalties to both schools and teachers who work without work permits. Thailand is already short of native speaking english teachers. This new rule won't make much difference - if teachers have qualifications there is no problem getting a WP and correct visa. It will most likely affect long term 'drifter' tourists who have external income / working illegally. Immigration should pay particular attention to cities close to borders. I would think this is where many of these border runners like. I can't imagine many folks living in BKK and travelling to Cambodia/Laos every two weeks. That would get tiresome.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

But if the immigration officier is in bad mood and thinks I have too many stamps, he can turn me away.

This is like a russian rulette, not clear rules, strict or not strict. I don't like to depend on the mood of the random guy who will check my passport.

Indeed. In the absence of some kind of specific standard/limit (no more than so many visa exempt entries within a certain period of time, or, so many consecutive visa exempt entries), it would seem to leave open the possibility of widely varying enforcement.

If that's where this is headed, I agree, it's a poor approach. Only time will tell just what Immigration is going to do on this.

[paz]

So that's a yes . You are under the impression that Thailand owes you something because you have decided to bless Thailand with your presence .

Naturally making you have visa and paying for it is a human rights violation.

Even more so for Thailand to dare stop you from working illegally or scamming system.

You try to read into other's minds and lives without knowing a thing. Unfortunately your 2 Baht fortune teller approach comes trough biased by judgment, flawed by nonsense, and marred by pathetic accusations, like in a movie that exists in your head only. At the end your insisting blabbing just makes you more ridiculous each time. Welcome to my ignore list.

Edited May 13, 2014 by paz

[BanTamo]

Always seemed a ridiculous waste of time for both sides to me.

[arisaje]

After wading through the 18 pages of comments here (and numerous other threads that are similar), what I see in the comments of those that don't/can't get a visa/work permit/etc. is a sense of entitlement on their part.

"I am from (add the appropriate country) and I am entitled to be here." "I spend a lot of money while I am here so I am entitled to be here." "I have property here so I am entitle to be here." "I have a family here so I am entitled to be here." You can add more if you like.

Absent proper paperwork in the form of a visa/work permit/etc., you are not entitled to be here. Your entitlement to be in any country ends as soon as you leave your home country (or the EU as applicable). Your ability to spend time in Thailand in excess of what is allowed under visa exempt or VOA rules requires that you comply with the laws of the Kingdom just as Thais are required to comply with the laws of your home country if they go there. There is no entitlement for you to be here.

If you are not able to meet the requirements for staying here - well, life is tough. People are turned away daily from my home country who are not able to meet the requirements to stay there. It may not be "fair" but life is like that.

Just my $0.02 worth.

David

You didn t understand.

I have said-in my case- that I am entitled to be here as tourist and buy a condo in my name as tourist and not for this reason it means i work illegaly.

I never overstayed for more than 1 day. I get my tourist visa,sometimes i go to Thailand for just 1 month and i use the visa exempt.

There is no reason why i should be refused, for which grounds ? I have never broke any Thai law.

But if the immigration officier is in bad mood and thinks I have too many stamps, he can turn me away.

This is like a russian rulette, not clear rules, strict or not strict. I don't like to depend on the mood of the random guy who will check my passport.

Max, if you come as a tourist you are on vacation, if you come to buy a condo and it is a genuine investment with title deeds in your name, you are still a tourist but should not have any issues in going to the nearest embassy in Singapore or Hong Kong and getting a new tourist visas back to Thailand where you can stay in your apartment.

I very much doubt you would be refused entry if you invest and own property here, but you would need to go out and obtain a correct visa to come back.

They just want to stop undesirable people making multiple visa runs to remote borders, where they cannot monitor them. I am pleased they are doing this and finally have a way to prevent all the criminals from staying here. If they are seriously going to have fingerprint scanners at airports too…..then its just Thailand a whole lot safer.

[AYJAYDEE]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

get a triple entry tourist visa

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This from the OP article quoting the Immigration commander:

“Out-in visa runs will still be possible but they have to show a credible tourism plan and give details of their accommodation to the officials.

“Thirty days should be enough for a normal tourist. If they really want to travel around the country for more than 30 days, then they must show us a plausible plan. If officers are suspicious, then they will carry out checks.

I'm going to go back to a point a made much earlier in the thread that didn't seem to get much focus.

From the general's quoted comments, it does indeed sound like the status of one's intended accommodation is going to be an important factor in visa-exempt consideration.

He seems to be saying, if you can show you've got hotel reservations that can be verified, we'll tend to believe that you're a tourist. But if you have no hotel reservations because you have your own condo or apartment, then we're not going to consider you as a tourist.

If that notion is correct, it's obviously going to bode ill for all the off-shore types arriving on visa exempt entries who have "permanent" homes here and other similar folks.

Read the quotes from the general. It seems pretty clear that's what he's saying.

[woli10]

Get the right visa!!!

Whats the right Visa for me?

work offshore, EU, under 50, no criminal record,

Am I not a tourist?

I entered Thailand about 50 times the last 3 years with 30 days visa exemption stamp.

about 15-18 entries a year, with 2 to 28days max stay, about 100days a year.

I rent a house, have a car and a ducati

I act and feel as a Tourist,

i applied the documents (resident certificate) for car, motorbike, driving licence,... at the Immigration many times and never ever anybody say thats ilegal to apply with visa exemption stamp.

What is the defination "tourist purpose"

[arisaje]

Studying Thai, while having a visa based on that is not a loophole.

In the same way that retiring in Thailand and getting a visa based on that isn't, or getting a job in Thailand (God forbid. ) and getting a visa based on that isn't a loophole.

Seems there's a lot of people hating on a rich, successful person making money with their business here.

Probably because they haven't the ability to.

Your thread doesn't really make sense……..but i am interested in what this has to do with 'rich' people here, making money with a successful business?

Surely there foreigners with successful businesses you talk about can get themselves genuine visas to be here legitimately?

If they don't have visas, or cannot get them, then they are probably here working illegally which again takes you back to the whole point of this exercise……weed out the undesirables.

[paz]

Get the right visa!!! Whats the right Visa for me? work offshore, EU, under 50, no criminal record, Am I not a tourist? I entered Thailand about 50 times the last 3 years with 30 days visa exemption stamp. about 15-18 entries a year, with 2 to 28days max stay, about 100days a year. I rent a house, have a car and a ducati I act and feel as a Tourist, i applied the documents (resident certificate) for car, motorbike, driving licence,... at the Immigration many times and never ever anybody say thats ilegal to apply with visa exemption stamp. What is the defination "tourist purpose"

You are the exact definition of someone that (according to serial haters here) that "doesn't have any entitlement to stay", "thinks that everything is owed to him", and "it's not a true contributor to the country". Now that you said how you play it (and it seems a pretty damn good way to me), your entire true life will be under forum judgement and may even drift to investigating your sexual behavior, or if you occasionally use low priced public hospitals, etc.

Anyway, sad trolls madness aside, my personal take is that Thailand just found a new way to squeeze money out of you, in the form of a tourist visa that you will pay even if just for the peace of mind. Even if the written law says otherwise.

Edited May 13, 2014 by paz

[paz]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

get a triple entry tourist visa

You will pay for the trip and stay to Bali, where it's only issued? And the tickets out-in for each exist?

get real. if you can't, stay quiet.

[JSixpack]

Get the right visa!!! Whats the right Visa for me? work offshore, EU, under 50, no criminal record,

Marriage, ED, Investment, business (work permit), regular tourist visa maybe

Am I not a tourist?

Nope. Because you're renting a house, have a car and a ducati .

You're living in Thailand, part-time.

I act and feel as a Tourist, i applied the documents (resident certificate) for car, motorbike, driving licence,... at the Immigration many times and never ever anybody say thats ilegal to apply with visa exemption stamp.

It's not a "resident certificate" but merely a verification of your address.

Immigration, not you, determines if you're acting like a tourist. How you feel is irrelevant.

What is the defination "tourist purpose"

Traveling around on an itinerary, staying in a hotel, living out of suitcase or backpack, renting transportation, coming over maybe once a year from your base in your home country. That kind of thing.

Edited May 13, 2014 by JSixpack

[arisaje]

Nevermind. Just stay illegally and pay 20k on the way out. Save a ton of dough and wasted effort and time in the end.

Oh--brilliant.

and with comments like "happysanook's" people wonder why immigration are cracking down on things...

One suspects the next phase in Immigration's crack down will be punishing over stayers to the fullest extent of the law

...no more days of paying 20k, a slap on the wrist and come back to Thailand tomorrow...

It will be 20k, slap on the wrist, blacklisted via your fingerprints and biometrics…….and thats that.

There sure will be less idiots on the streets and in the bars if the Thai Immigration actually do this and make it work.

I hear its pretty cold and wet back in Europe…..never mind

[paz]

will be 20k, slap on the wrist, blacklisted via your fingerprints and biometrics…….and thats that.

There sure will be less idiots on the streets and in the bars if the Thai Immigration actually do this and make it work.

I hear its pretty cold and wet back in Europe…..never mind

We may reconvene here in one year to see how things went in the end.

You may find that is yourself the one that had to take the bus back and the idiots are still out there having a great idiots time.. one never knows

In the meanwhile your bitter disposition and attitude will reward you greatly.

[woli10]

Get the right visa!!! Whats the right Visa for me? work offshore, EU, under 50, no criminal record,

Marriage, ED, Investment, business (work permit), regular tourist visa maybe

Am I not a tourist?

Nope. Because you're renting a house, have a car and a ducati .

You're living in Thailand, part-time.

I act and feel as a Tourist, i applied the documents (resident certificate) for car, motorbike, driving licence,... at the Immigration many times and never ever anybody say thats ilegal to apply with visa exemption stamp.

It's not a "resident certificate" but merely a verification of your address.

Immigration, not you, determines if you're acting like a tourist. How you feel is irrelevant.

What is the defination "tourist purpose"

Traveling around on an itinerary, staying in a hotel, living out of suitcase or backpack, renting transportation, coming over maybe once a year from your base in your home country. That kind of thing.

1.

Marriage: no way

ED: how if i am tourist for vacation and not stay all the time in thailand to be at classroom

bussines: i already have a job (offshore)

tourist visa: you say Im not a tourist

2.

Because I renting: who say that, where`s this written? the last 50 trips to thailand i always say (if asked) "I rent a house" fill out the arrival form at the backside with full adress and purpouse of trip

3.

Its not a resident certificate: sorry i mean residance certificate as tittled on the official document from the Immigration Office

4.

Tourist defination: is it your defination? do you have a source?

[arisaje]

will be 20k, slap on the wrist, blacklisted via your fingerprints and biometrics…….and thats that.

There sure will be less idiots on the streets and in the bars if the Thai Immigration actually do this and make it work.

I hear its pretty cold and wet back in Europe…..never mind

We may reconvene here in one year to see how things went in the end.

You may find that is yourself the one that had to take the bus back and the idiots are still out there having a great idiots time.. one never knows

In the meanwhile your bitter disposition and attitude will reward you greatly.

Well i already left from a residency point of view…..living in Singapore now but still have a small business in Thailand.

I loved Thailand for a long time, but you must admit it has been slipping badly year on year and while i know there are a lot of Thai criminals they cannot do much about….. there are increasing numbers of foreign criminals and people hanging around indefinitely for an easy life…

I think their immigration plans are great, maybe its just the correction in the system that they needed, filter out all the dead beats….leaving all the genuine expats and tourists to enjoy the country like they did before.

Singapore has very strict visa, entry, work permit rules. It works and is a model for all of asia…..not many idiots around here, the law just doesn't put up with them.

[philw]

Nevermind. Just stay illegally and pay 20k on the way out. Save a ton of dough and wasted effort and time in the end.

Oh--brilliant.

and with comments like "happysanook's" people wonder why immigration are cracking down on things...

One suspects the next phase in Immigration's crack down will be punishing over stayers to the fullest extent of the law

...no more days of paying 20k, a slap on the wrist and come back to Thailand tomorrow...

It will be 20k, slap on the wrist, blacklisted via your fingerprints and biometrics…….and thats that.

There sure will be less idiots on the streets and in the bars if the Thai Immigration actually do this and make it work.

I hear its pretty cold and wet back in Europe…..never mind

Think you are right, this is coming and soon.

Get in the system or get out of the country is the message.

Pay your taxes, get the appropriate visa and stay within the law.

( None is difficult )

Some bars will lose their regulars, who can't pay their bills anyway.......

[paz]

Think you are right, this is coming and soon.

Get in the system or get out of the country is the message.

Pay your taxes, get the appropriate visa and stay within the law.

( None is difficult )

Some bars will lose their regulars, who can't pay their bills anyway.......

Another assuming and judgmental posting, that is, or course, false in the end.

How one can pay taxes if has no income in Thailand? What about "no taxation without representation" ?

"appropriate visa" ? You don;t even know what is there exect your personal situation, of course.

Anyway, there is no message in that except the one that some stuck ups desperately want to see, out of envy and desperation and that need to say "bar" every other sentence.

Again, see you here in one year, and we'll see what happened..

In the meanwhile, don't choke on you bile

[baboon]

Nevermind. Just stay illegally and pay 20k on the way out. Save a ton of dough and wasted effort and time in the end.

Oh--brilliant.

and with comments like "happysanook's" people wonder why immigration are cracking down on things...

One suspects the next phase in Immigration's crack down will be punishing over stayers to the fullest extent of the law

...no more days of paying 20k, a slap on the wrist and come back to Thailand tomorrow...

It will be 20k, slap on the wrist, blacklisted via your fingerprints and biometrics.and thats that.

There sure will be less idiots on the streets and in the bars if the Thai Immigration actually do this and make it work.

I hear its pretty cold and wet back in Europe..never mind

1. There may be fewer idiots in the streets and bars indeed. Fewer, not less idiots.

2. No, Europe is not cold and wet at the moment. Sorry about that.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

I suspect the real problems will surface in August and a clearer picture of what's really going on won't emerge until around September.

I predict there will be lots of problems and this will affect way more people than it's originally intended. I don't trust the tourist visa option at all now and will be actively looking into moving elsewhere in Asia.

I suspect the real problems will surface when entry to Thailand by air becomes an issue on 13 August. I can't picture that a check-in agent to BA in Birmingham is going to be all that happy trying to foresee what some Thai immigrations official halfway around the world is going to make of some passenger's passport that contains a number of Thai entry stamps. Or how about a new passport, a situation in which the passenger's "Thailand history" is all on the Thai immigrations computer and cannot be sussed out in advance.

You'll be arriving from your country, not doing a visa run. So no problems there. But once you start trying to do border runs...a possible problem.

There is a lot of unnecessary panic taking place here.

[brubakertx]

I this just bullshit. This could spell trouble for some people.

I just flew into BKK last night at 12:30 at night. I was going through immigration, and the immigration officer is giving me a hard time. I have a re-entry work permit Visa for one year. It's good till October 2014. He was looking at my passport and noticed I had about 4 walk across visa runs from 4 years in Burma, plus others re-renters to Vientiane for my work permit. If took about 25 minutes with other immigration officers to check it out. I'm like,,,what the

( xxxx )

All my document were in order. plus my work permit, with tons of past documents, pay slips showing that I work for Chulalongkorn University.

Finally the guy let me pass through. I think he tired of all my documents I was producing for him to read. This could have easily turned out badly! Just glad he was not in some angry mood or something.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Rooo
profanity

[arisaje]

Think you are right, this is coming and soon.

Get in the system or get out of the country is the message.

Pay your taxes, get the appropriate visa and stay within the law.

( None is difficult )

Some bars will lose their regulars, who can't pay their bills anyway.......

Another assuming and judgmental posting, that is, or course, false in the end.

How one can pay taxes if has no income in Thailand? What about "no taxation without representation" ?

"appropriate visa" ? You don;t even know what is there exect your personal situation, of course.

Anyway, there is no message in that except the one that some stuck ups desperately want to see, out of envy and desperation and that need to say "bar" every other sentence.

Again, see you here in one year, and we'll see what happened..

In the meanwhile, don't choke on you bile

Paz i think you are overlooking the bigger picture here and seem a little concerned about your own position…..…people are going to require legitimate tourist visas, a 30 day exempt will do for the initial stay

But if you want to stay longer you need to go out and apply at an embassy, where they will charge you for a visa which is a tax, airport 'tax' on your flight tickets, proof of accommodation which is taxed and probably proof of funds etc. the list could go on, who knows.

If you work offshore or overseas but repeatedly enter Thailand on 30 day exempts, i imagine at some point after a few more entries they might start asking questions….like you are not actually a tourist but you are basically trying to live in Thailand and work overseas…if they start with the new immigration laws like other countries you might only be allowed in the country for up to 60 days in any 180 day period...

I am not sure who 'Stuck-ups' are but i am sure as hell they are not 'Envious' of people hanging around Thailands streets….i can think of a lot nicer places where some stuck ups would be envious of people.

[kerrysum]

The bottom line is immigration are tightening things up and it really is about time. They are putting an end to people abusing the system. If you have a valid reason to be here you will have the correct visa. People who dont meet the criteria for visas have no valid reason - this is very common throughout the world.

Kind of far fetched don't you think, here in USA they enter on a visa and never leave.... they buy property, which in other countries we can not do....

How about a level playing field without politics? Here in the USA, they come across the border illegally and never leave... So ya don't think it is about human trafficking? Reality is reality............

Just a thought.....

kilosierra

[Sd12]

I go to Thailand in july for a month and then for 4 months over Christmas period. I have a wife and a two year old daughter. I am self employed in the UK. I transfer money over to cover me for the 4 months in Thailand. I always have a return flight booked and never overstay. I used to use a marriage non o visa, but then the rules changed where i applied in the UK that for a non o marriage visa i had to have proof of £1400 per month all year round. The amount is not a problem but i take it as i have to earn this even when i am not in the UK. As a result i had to use a double entry tourist last time. Not on the subject of visa exempt i know, but just my experience of having to use the wrong visa for my stay.

[attento]

What is the connection between recording finger prints and any other aspect of the story ?

[Trevstar]

£1400 a month, isn't it 40,000b which is about £800 for the marriage extension? Or are you talking about the £18600 yearly salary to stay in the UK?

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[kjhbigv]

"Investment visa"?

Do you honestly think I want to "invest" 10m baht to get an "investment visa" when the rules on that "investment visa" could change at any time?

Think I will leave my cash with the bank crooks in the UK!

Any other bright ideas for the under 50 brigade?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[neverdie]

"Investment visa"?

Do you honestly think I want to "invest" 10m baht to get an "investment visa" when the rules on that "investment visa" could change at any time?

Think I will leave my cash with the bank crooks in the UK!

Any other bright ideas for the under 50 brigade?

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Cashed up under 50ies could always go the Thailand elite card 5 year, 500,000 baht option. Basically 100,000 baht per year, you get a couple of limo rides and a few buzz trips along Suvarnabhumi in the electric cart as well, just for laughs. Would prevent the needs to run to the border or buy expensive plan tickets out of the country for a few years. Maybe give them times to grow up and get old.

chicken feed 500,000.

Program might still go belly up, tho, but much better than dropping 10mil baht into low return investments......perhaps