Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[LivinLOS]

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The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Someone settled with lots of property isn't technically a tourist though......

Which is why they havent been getting tourist visas..

People need to get the understanding that there is a section of the visitors here who are high earning professionals who have become based here over the last 10 years, own all kinds of stuff and spend millions here, who use this as a hub and are never here for 30 days at a time.

[Pralaad]

The take away I get from a lot of the posts on this topic is one of a gang of whinging little babies with a sense of self entitlement..."I am a western foreigner with a few bob in my pocket, I demand to be treated better than this by the natives"

, nailed i

On so many threads, you have so many Thai experts, who know all about REAL Thailand, married to hi-so lawyers, own latest vehicles, build houses etc etc etc

Yet, once 15/30 visa runs are no longer an option, all those experts whine and cry, pages and pages of cries.

One would assume so many with so much knowledge and money would have proper visa's of some sort.

Oh, so you kept count and statistics about who posted what and when, to relate to the posting in this thread? Hard to believe, but if you did that's just kid of sad.

Other than that there is nothing to see in the arrogant posting you've quoted but an high dose of contempt for anyone that doesn't do or think alike Suddenly, they become all the same fuzzy bunch.

Do not need to keep the count, its pretty clear and obvious, is it not?

I do not see anything arrogant in his post.

Thailand should not be bending over just because some people want to live here.

As i said, so many claiming to be so well off, can not afford a visa??

So many married to hi so, can not afford a visa??

Any reason why so many think its ok to scam the system?

[ukrules]

Next to no countries allow people to live there and hop across the border every month.

Apart from all of Europe for other Europeans.

[Soutpeel]

SP....sorry for the confusion. I use to have a WP when I was based in our BKK office, I no longer have one as I am on rotation work from another district. When I got my WP I had to relinquish my married visa (not sure why?)..So ever since I been coming in a on a tourist visa every 40 days or so..

Sounds like you were sold a bad one - no reason you can't have a WP on a non-imm O for marriage visa or extension.

Sounds like you were sold a bad one as well - If you apply for a work permit as a journalist and have a non-imm-O for marriage, you do have to switch to a non-imm M and give up your marriage-visa.

That is incorrect. Some immigration guy may tell you that, but it is legally allowable to hold a WP under an No-Imm O for marriage (not OA or ED). Fact.

Although it is perfectly legal to get an WP on a Non-imm O (not O-A or ED) its not immigration who determines what is required, its the Department of Labour, immigration don't issue work permits, and some Labour departments require someone on an "O" to go and get a Non-imm B prior to issuing the WP or in this case a Non -imm M...

So whether this is right or wrong depends on the labour office your dealing with

[wolf5370]

Sounds like you were sold a bad one as well - If you apply for a work permit as a journalist and have a non-imm-O for marriage, you do have to switch to a non-imm M and give up your marriage-visa.

That is incorrect. Some immigration guy may tell you that, but it is legally allowable to hold a WP under an No-Imm O for marriage (not OA or ED). Fact.

But as he correctly points out the only visa class for a freelance journalist is the M media visa.. So if his work permit was as indicated for freelance journalism.. He would need to change.

For regular working I agree.. But I think you missed that it was an M visa ??

Yes missed the journalist specifics - but can't see the context match of his post - he says I was sold a bad one when saying, correctly, that you can have a WP on a Non-Imm O Marriage Visa/Extension. The fact that there are very specific visas for certain professions - monk/priest also I believe - is not relevant as the guy was forced to go on to a 'B' visa, and NOT an 'M' visa.

[Tomtomtom69]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

That should be OK. However 6 days is a bit short for Myanmar...why not spend like 3-4 weeks there?

[Jiu-Jitsu]

If what this guy says is true then this is going to be the end of long term tourism before retirement option which many people choose, even with multiple entry tourist visas. I'd give it a year and it will all be over if he sticks to it.

I think this is what so many people are missing..

In the young professionals set, many many of my friends and associates are legally working outside of Thailand on contract work, hopping in and out of the country constantly. Sometimes coming back just for the weekend, sometimes staying as much as a couple of weeks up to a month. Add in the oil guys on rotation and you have masses of people, the kind of people who spend well north of a million a year, some of them 2 or 3 mil a year, but who are not tourists, cant study language due to time away, dont have the time to go to a 3rd country each trip for a new tourist visa as the visit itself is only for days.

These younger professional people are big spenders in Thailand, they spend like a 'quality tourist' but do so maybe 100 days per year not 10.. They rent the villas, buy the ducatis and bmws, pour money into hotels and trips.. etc etc.. Many lease land and villas, many employ servants and maids, etc etc.. These are not barflys, penny pinchers, or whatever a few on retirement visas want to categorize them as. They probably outspend those 'full time resident' expats by a factor or 3 or 5 to 1.

Sure some may be married.. And now will have to chase that option.. But many are not.

These guys are now being told theres no way their high spending lifestyle is compatible with Thai visa regulations. Thats very strange.

A few questions would allow the officer to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The kind of people whom you describe are not making same days runs to Poipet.

It is should clear to any reasonable person as to who these measures are aimed.

No need to panic.

[Pattaya Pat]

Far too much to read through here so can somebody possibly tell me that if I am coming back in from Cambodia with a double entry visa issued in Laos will I still get my 60 days? It will be the second entry.

Thanks.

[Soutpeel]

Far too much to read through here so can somebody possibly tell me that if I am coming back in from Cambodia with a double entry visa issued in Laos will I still get my 60 days? It will be the second entry.

Thanks.

Yes you have a visa....

[ovenman]

Far too much to read through here so can somebody possibly tell me that if I am coming back in from Cambodia with a double entry visa issued in Laos will I still get my 60 days? It will be the second entry.

Yes. No problems for you.

[hanno]

Next to no countries allow people to live there and hop across the border every month.

Apart from all of Europe for other Europeans.

That is a little different though. Shengen and all that. And even then there are some restrictions on citizens from countries that only joined the EU recently.

[gbswales]

"“Out-in visa runs will still be possible but they have to show a credible tourism plan and give details of their accommodation to the officials." so, nothing change.

Just curious, as it is not practical for me because of health issues which need the NHS, but would it be possible for a retired person with a modest income (modest in UK but enough to live reasonably well in Thailand say £20k a year inflation protected) and a younger Thai partner (currently settled with me in UK) who could work in Thailand, to get a visa that would be sure enough to justify disposing of UK property etc. It is complicated as well by our being gay which would probably mean our civil partnership not being recognised in Thailand.

My reason for asking this is - if such a thing were possible then I can see that visa runs are not really necessary if you have a modest income from abroad and do not intend to work. If it would be possible could a younger person with enough income also choose to live out their life in Thailand as long as they didn't contravene any laws?

I don't understand why any country would turn away people who will not take anything out of economy and who will contribute a modest amount to the economy?

[star kicker]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

---------------

Blacklisting and forever banning some of the out-and-out criminals can only be a good thing.

I see several people bleating about being "respectable", owning property, etc -- If they are such pillars of society they will have no problem in getting a triple-entry tourist visa from their home country, which can be made valid for over a year using the immigration office in Thailand to get the extensions, etc.

But what happens if u r respectable, owning property etc., with a triple entry tourist Visa, which I use, to come every Winter? If they now start asking questions on re-entry at the border and u tell the truth about staying at property u own or rent with your 'girlfriend', or even renting a property alone, can they legitimately say: "Well that means u r not a tourist then", and refuse re-entry. Is it legal for a 'tourist' to rent a property in Thailand.? Are we, to be safe, going to have to be dishonest and give a false itinery or hotel address?

i would assume as you have paid for a triple entry visa then you have 'a visa' and it will work as currently.

stopping repeated visa exemptions will force people to buy single/double/triple entry tourist visas if they want to stay here for longer than 30 days and as this will generate income - this may be one reason they have stopped the visa runs.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Surely the countries that have a bi-lateral arrangement for visa free entry will be unaffected and will continue to be allowed unlimited 30-day entry?

Where does it say 'unlimited'? It has a set period of time, then you should leave and perhaps organise another type of visa if you wish to stay longer.

[Tomtomtom69]

Also, just a correction - foreign students studying in America can only work ON CAMPUS during semesters for up to 20 hours per week. They are NOT allowed to work off campus except under exceptional circumstances, for which permission is generally not granted.

Studying Thai, while having a visa based on that is not a loophole.

In the same way that retiring in Thailand and getting a visa based on that isn't, or getting a job in Thailand (God forbid. ) and getting a visa based on that isn't a loophole.

Seems there's a lot of people hating on a rich, successful person making money with their business here.

Probably because they haven't the ability to.

For a Person to get an ED Visa in Thailand requires 4 hours per week of study. For a Thai to get an ED Visa in USA requires 18 hours per week of classroom study

I believe a student in the US is also permitted to work the rest of the time with no restriction on the type of work he can do as long as it is legal.

And foreigners on ED visas in Australia can work 20 hours per week, and during school holidays they can work full time.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Tomtomtom69

[arnestockholm]

Have a question and don't know if any one could help me about this. Staying since about 8 month via border runs by air. Had before 2 non immigration b visa and two tourist visa. Don't work legal or illegal in Thailand and would never do. Living from money I earn when is sell my company some years ago. The issue is my 30 day stamp will run out on Saturday. I already booked a flight and one night in Singapore and would fly back to get another visa. At the same time I request the documents from my lawyer to get a new non immigration b visa but this will take some time so never been finished by end if this week. How likely I will get issues when I arrive back in Bangkok? Do I have a chance that they let me in one more time? Have already a ticket back to Europe for the 9th of June to get the visa there. Only other option would be to overstay but don't want to do this.

[slipperylobster]

Anyways.....over 55 and got the income... so it is six of one or half a dozen of the other. Whatever they want....i just bought a car so I got to go along with it. Got the double entry one month ago....so next time I will get the appropriate (have to look it up but whatever they do call...the retirement extension on an non immigrant OA or whatever).. I got the info stashed away somewhere. Arrived from Farangland 8 months ago and had a few back to backs....and one tourist visa. Was not sure if I would be leaving or staying.

[metisdead]

A post using all caps has been removed, turn off your Caps Lock key when posting:

Posting in all capitals or in all bold, and using large or unusual fonts and colors is bad netiquette.

[Pattaya Pat]

Far too much to read through here so can somebody possibly tell me that if I am coming back in from Cambodia with a double entry visa issued in Laos will I still get my 60 days? It will be the second entry.

Thanks.

Yes you have a visa....

Ok thanks.

I wonder if they will soon stop the double entriesa t Vientianne, really wouldn't suprise me at all..

And maybe even the triple entries from the UK?

Looks like I'm gonna have to get married soon.

[inthepink]

I'm not privy to the workings behind the scenes, neither are you. If you can't see the funny side of asking who the head of Thai immigration thinks he is, deciding how long tourists can spend in Thailand, then I can't help you.

Let me help you understand then, he is an non-elected cop with (relatively) limited power, exploiting a power gap to introduce regulations not officially published in any body of law, at the time someone above him will think different he will be quietly back at his desk polishing his medals and working the best posts bids paid by his subordinates.

I'm sorry but you have no more idea than I do whether your version of events is the truth or not. They could have been deliberating policy for months....the timing is rather odd I admit but it doesn't mean that your short story is anything other than a product of your imagination.

Edited May 13, 2014 by inthepink

[uptheos]

Far too much to read through here so can somebody possibly tell me that if I am coming back in from Cambodia with a double entry visa issued in Laos will I still get my 60 days? It will be the second entry.

Thanks.

Yes you have a visa....

Ok thanks.

I wonder if they will soon stop the double entriesa t Vientianne, really wouldn't suprise me at all..

And maybe even the triple entries from the UK?

Looks like I'm gonna have to get married soon.

Gawd help her

[Pattaya Pat]

Have a question and don't know if any one could help me about this. Staying since about 8 month via border runs by air. Had before 2 non immigration b visa and two tourist visa. Don't work legal or illegal in Thailand and would never do. Living from money I earn when is sell my company some years ago. The issue is my 30 day stamp will run out on Saturday. I already booked a flight and one night in Singapore and would fly back to get another visa. At the same time I request the documents from my lawyer to get a new non immigration b visa but this will take some time so never been finished by end if this week. How likely I will get issues when I arrive back in Bangkok? Do I have a chance that they let me in one more time? Have already a ticket back to Europe for the 9th of June to get the visa there. Only other option would be to overstay but don't want to do this.

I stand corrected but I think this is only a clampdown at the borders, NOT airports?

[Tomtomtom69]

Another confusing article - many references to tourist visas rather than visa exempt arrivals. Are they now saying that even on a double entry tourist visa you are not allowed to do an 'in-out'?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Does this quote from the OP help you understand ?

“Out-in visa runs will still be possible but they have to show a credible tourism plan and give details of their accommodation to the officials.

“Thirty days should be enough for a normal tourist. If they really want to travel around the country for more than 30 days, then they must show us a plausible plan. If officers are suspicious, then they will carry out checks."

It's rubbish. Backpackers make it up as they go along, and the cheap accommodation they use is found when they get to a place. Often, cheap places aren't on the internet at all. Not all tourists are wealthy enough to be able to book places on the internet, and how else would you be able to book if you had never been to a place before and didn't know where to stay?

The official obviously doesn't understand that the backpacker of today is the flashpacker of tomorrow. Anyway, who does he think he is to judge what is or isn't long enough?

< If officers are suspicious, then they will carry out checks.> Where are they going to check up on a gap year student- Interpol??????? The mind boggles.

I agree. I would also think that despite some claims by tourists or visa runners that officials were rude or arrogant etc. for the most part, if you are friendly and can show a plausible plan, you will gain entry. For example, there was some controversy about Vietnamese travelers being forced to show 20,000 Baht in CASH and also have their picture taken with the money. The Thai authorities have softened their stance slightly such that credit cards etc. are also acceptable in lieu of cash. However, Vietnamese and travelers from certain other countries will still be targeted, but perhaps not by forcing them to have their picture taken with money flashing in front of their faces.

If you are a backpacker you can simply show the officials how you will have access to money to fund your stay (cash, ATM and credit cards, etc.) Additionally, an onward or return airline ticket and an itinerary without actual hotel bookings, but details of where you plan to go and stay etc. should be enough.

[max72]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

If someone settles in a country and buys lot of property without having the right to stay in that country they are being very stupid. Who in their right mind would buy lots of property based on doing visa runs?

Perhaps a rich guy with lots of money to spend. I am not in that category, but I am far away from 50 and I have enough money to live. I have never done any wrongdoing in Thailand. I own a property and I could have bought one more if it wasn't for those rules always skeptical and on defensive against foreigners. I think there are lots of people in my situation: not old but with enough money to live (and spend !) in Thailand with a clean record in and outside Thailand. Why not give them an opportunity to a retirement visa even if they are not 50 ?

Just ask for a criminal record from the police of their countries of origin , keep an eye on them every year and that's it.

I think 99% of farangs in Thailand don't do any harm and instead they are helping this country by creating jobs for locals.

I would be curious to see if these proposals were put into a referendum what result comes out

[LivinLOS]

If what this guy says is true then this is going to be the end of long term tourism before retirement option which many people choose, even with multiple entry tourist visas. I'd give it a year and it will all be over if he sticks to it.

I think this is what so many people are missing..

In the young professionals set, many many of my friends and associates are legally working outside of Thailand on contract work, hopping in and out of the country constantly. Sometimes coming back just for the weekend, sometimes staying as much as a couple of weeks up to a month. Add in the oil guys on rotation and you have masses of people, the kind of people who spend well north of a million a year, some of them 2 or 3 mil a year, but who are not tourists, cant study language due to time away, dont have the time to go to a 3rd country each trip for a new tourist visa as the visit itself is only for days.

These younger professional people are big spenders in Thailand, they spend like a 'quality tourist' but do so maybe 100 days per year not 10.. They rent the villas, buy the ducatis and bmws, pour money into hotels and trips.. etc etc.. Many lease land and villas, many employ servants and maids, etc etc.. These are not barflys, penny pinchers, or whatever a few on retirement visas want to categorize them as. They probably outspend those 'full time resident' expats by a factor or 3 or 5 to 1.

Sure some may be married.. And now will have to chase that option.. But many are not.

These guys are now being told theres no way their high spending lifestyle is compatible with Thai visa regulations. Thats very strange.

A few questions would allow the officer to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The kind of people whom you describe are not making same days runs to Poipet.

It is should clear to any reasonable person as to who these measures are aimed.

No need to panic.

I disagree 100%.. These guys go through passports every year or two because they fill with Thai stamps.

If you think immigration are going to see 50x visa exempt entries, ask them about their hotel and they say no they have a house.. His response is "your not a tourist"

Plain as day these guys will be caught up in it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

If he wants to do the right thing then start punishing the businesses that hire foreignets w/o work permits

Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[vesse]

I've read through this thread but didn't find an answer, should it exist.

Yesterday we read that one will be allowed to enter on three consecutive walk in visas until Aug 12th, and after that, depending on the interpretation, one or no re-entries. Does this latest news change this? Or can one hop in and out given they have a valid enough travel plan to present should it be asked? Will something change in August according to the latest? Are there any recent reports from border from those trying to do a visa run?

I have no personal interest in this (I have non-B and WP, family has non-O's) but I'd like to have Thailand's WikiTravel page to contain accurate information. As mentioned by someone backpackers can rarely present travel plans and this could be problematic for them as travel plan may be required also for Tourist Visa.

[Pattaya Pat]

Far too much to read through here so can somebody possibly tell me that if I am coming back in from Cambodia with a double entry visa issued in Laos will I still get my 60 days? It will be the second entry.

Thanks.

Yes you have a visa....

Ok thanks.

I wonder if they will soon stop the double entriesa t Vientianne, really wouldn't suprise me at all..

And maybe even the triple entries from the UK?

Looks like I'm gonna have to get married soon.

Gawd help her

Agreed.

[LivinLOS]

Next to no countries allow people to live there and hop across the border every month.

Apart from all of Europe for other Europeans.

That is a little different though. Shengen and all that. And even then there are some restrictions on citizens from countries that only joined the EU recently.

A better question is where is the world is there not a visa class for rich people to come there and spend money indefinitely ??

Show you have assets and everywhere is open.. But not here for under 50s.

[Ianatlarge]

Perhaps Thai immig could take a chill pill? Any western tourist, working in Thailand without a work permit, is not doing the kingdom any harm. Most of these guys are teaching Eng, some sort of internet biz, or just selling a few items on ebay. Nothing that would cause the country to collapse into a black hole. If you do want to see what the real problems of Thailand are, just take a look at the reds and yellows screwing the country over.

The entire immig/visa thing is a slow and inefficient waste of time. People want to stay in Thailand for a few months. Big deal. Let them. 90% of Thais love the idea. Chill.