Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[LivinLOS]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

I would reckon that the few that have enough cash to have retired early are a pretty small minority and since they are retired, the Thai's don't see them as a sufficiently long term 'investment' to afford them any preferential visa status. Sure they may have a chunk of change and 'buy' a house in a gated community in Chiang Mai, Samui or Phuket but apart from their dining out at farang-oriented restaurants and checking the latest imported grub at Villa, they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand. They have retired and are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET.

Those on 28/28 work/rest rotations in the oil and gas or mining industries are another minority that don't really deserve any breaks. However, if they have already committed to living in Thailand while working FIFO and have bought property here or have relationships and children, then they may need to review THEIR commitments in Thailand rather than whine about getting shafted by any new immigration enforcement.

Maybe you dont come into contact with them, but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

And they are among the highest spenders and contributors far outweighing the kind of penny pinching retirement guys. I know guys who routinely drop 3 mil a year incountry.. Thats a lot of backpackers or pension allowances every month.

[Soutpeel]

but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

I actually do work O&G and I am calling BS on your statement.

I am talking real about O&G guys, not the ones who tell you they work or worked O&G, (bit like the Ex SAS/Navy Seals etc)....there are blagger's about

[TechnikaIII]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

"... especially if you are settled with lots of property here... "

Then presumably you will have the appropriate visa, and not be a 30day out/in runner.

[DrTuner]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

I would reckon that the few that have enough cash to have retired early are a pretty small minority and since they are retired, the Thai's don't see them as a sufficiently long term 'investment' to afford them any preferential visa status. Sure they may have a chunk of change and 'buy' a house in a gated community in Chiang Mai, Samui or Phuket but apart from their dining out at farang-oriented restaurants and checking the latest imported grub at Villa, they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand. They have retired and are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET.

I guess I'm one of these. Married with kids though, so I'm on the family extensions. Thailand benefits around 2M baht/y from me as I bring a part of that "chunk" here. I use very few resources I don't directly pay for, so ought to be a good deal to them. You might well be right with the under 50's with cash being too small a group to warrant any special rules. I'm the only one I personally know, every one else around here in the farang ghettos seem to be 50+.

One solution would be to have another "retirement" class without the 50y limit, but to require the 800k freshly transferred to Thailand every year and spent here. A cow that's willing to be milked shouldn't be left standing. The other would be pay-per-stay, xxx$/d. Easy enough to implement.

The immigration does have a point with visa exemptions being abused, as well as TR and ED visas. IMHO it would be easier for them to offer a couple of legit ways to cash in on the long term "tourists", after having an viable option nobody would bother with loopholes.

[Mosha]

Border-run businesses and mini-bus drivers soon out of work?

May make the roads a bit safer !!

Ranong will be quieter.

[NanLaew]

but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

I actually do work O&G and I am calling BS on your statement.

I am talking real about O&G guys, not the ones who tell you they work or worked O&G, (bit like the Ex SAS/Navy Seals etc)....there are blagger's about

LivinLOS, I don't need to meet them as I am one of them but you are way, way overstating the numbers and your significance in the grand scheme of things here.

I didn't realise that there's real oilfield trash and wannabe oilfield trash. Thanks Soutpeel!

[jaloochapurr]

Doing fingerprinting is a ways off.applying for budget. Then get equipment. Then program the system to take it.

Good or bad it will not happen overnight.

[mikebike]

The Thai Constitution is promulgated for Thai citizens. It has bugger all to do with any foreigners.

That would be my guess, but I'm open to find out otherwise...

[arch77778]

Of the countries mentioned that allows visa runs, is it on the basis of same day out and in.

[ovenman]

Of the countries mentioned that allows visa runs, is it on the basis of same day out and in.

Malaysia, Indonesia, México... sure.

India. Maybe, maybe not. Would depend on whether you have a long-term visa like the ten-year visa offered to US citozens (allowing a six-month stay upon each entry) or whether you need to go abroad for a new visa.

[vadimbz]

Border-run businesses and mini-bus drivers soon out of work?

They will retrain as Thai language teachers.

[RabC]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

I would reckon that the few that have enough cash to have retired early are a pretty small minority and since they are retired, the Thai's don't see them as a sufficiently long term 'investment' to afford them any preferential visa status. Sure they may have a chunk of change and 'buy' a house in a gated community in Chiang Mai, Samui or Phuket but apart from their dining out at farang-oriented restaurants and checking the latest imported grub at Villa, they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand. They have retired and are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET.

Those on 28/28 work/rest rotations in the oil and gas or mining industries are another minority that don't really deserve any breaks. However, if they have already committed to living in Thailand while working FIFO and have bought property here or have relationships and children, then they may need to review THEIR commitments in Thailand rather than whine about getting shafted by any new immigration enforcement.

I work in Oil/Gas and FIFO, have lived here with my partner for 13 years but as we are same sex can not get married (in Thai eyes) I am still under 50. should I not be able to live here because of my sexuality? My work means I sometimes have 2-3 months off at a time or have been working somewhere where there is no Embassy or Consulate to obtain a tourist visa. I would be more than happy to jump through any hoops to be allowed a long term visa.

[Aspic]

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Of the countries mentioned that allows visa runs, is it on the basis of same day out and in.

Malaysia, Indonesia, México... sure.

India. Maybe, maybe not. Would depend on whether you have a long-term visa like the ten-year visa offered to US citozens (allowing a six-month stay upon each entry) or whether you need to go abroad for a new visa.

As a matter of interest where would one do a "visa" run to from India ?

Pakistan?, Bangladesh? Nepal? Maybe Sri Lanka ?

Can entries to these countries be easily obtained at border crossings ?

[ovenman]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Of the countries mentioned that allows visa runs, is it on the basis of same day out and in.

Malaysia, Indonesia, México... sure.

India. Maybe, maybe not. Would depend on whether you have a long-term visa like the ten-year visa offered to US citozens (allowing a six-month stay upon each entry) or whether you need to go abroad for a new visa.

As a matter of interest where would one do a "visa" run to from India ?

Pakistan?, Bangladesh? Nepal? Maybe Sri Lanka ?

Can entries to these countries be easily obtained at border crossings ?

Bangladesh and Nepal both have a visa-on-arrival program.

Sri Lanka requires arranging an advance e-visa of sorts which is a simple online application.

Pakistan pretty much requires getting a visa in advance, as does India itself.

[hyperdimension]

I agree. However, I find that it helps if you speak Thai (fluently or almost fluently) in which case you could explain yourself better,

That would be funny - speaking fluent Thai to an immigration officer trying to convince him or her that you are a tourist.

[ExpatOilWorker]

A special O&G visa, I like your thinking. it should have a cool name also, like Non-O&G (trash) Visa.

Non "O" (Rig Pig) visa...

Sure, that will do. Of course this visa will hold special requirements, like tattoos (henna tattoos for junior personnel) and the ability to communicate complex problems in simple 2 word sentences.

[LivinLOS]

but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

I actually do work O&G and I am calling BS on your statement.

I am talking real about O&G guys, not the ones who tell you they work or worked O&G, (bit like the Ex SAS/Navy Seals etc)....there are blagger's about

Including diving, ROV, and all the ancillaries ??

I know loads of these guys, in fact they make up the bulk of the professional long stayers.. I knew probably over 100 on Phuket, I know a bunch in Hua Hin and assume the same in Patts.. I can only know a fraction of them.

[woli10]

I know in Bangladesh you can apply any Visa for Thailand at the Thaiembassy in Dhaka but you need at least a 6 Month Visa in Bangladesh (no way with "On Arrival Visa")

[LivinLOS]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

"... especially if you are settled with lots of property here... "

Then presumably you will have the appropriate visa, and not be a 30day out/in runner.

However for the professional working international contractor. That 'was' the correct class.

They dont work here, they dont break laws, they dont take a Thais jobs and they bring in lots of money. Its quality tourist with an year round appeal.

[ovenman]

They dont work here, they dont break laws, they dont take a Thais jobs and they bring in lots of money. Its quality tourist with an year round appeal.

Until the winds shift direction and they're suddenly not.

[ExpatOilWorker]

but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

I actually do work O&G and I am calling BS on your statement.

I am talking real about O&G guys, not the ones who tell you they work or worked O&G, (bit like the Ex SAS/Navy Seals etc)....there are blagger's about

Who in their right mind would lower themself to fake they work in the O&G industry?

This country sure attract some strange characters.

[hyperdimension]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

I would reckon that the few that have enough cash to have retired early are a pretty small minority and since they are retired, the Thai's don't see them as a sufficiently long term 'investment' to afford them any preferential visa status. Sure they may have a chunk of change and 'buy' a house in a gated community in Chiang Mai, Samui or Phuket but apart from their dining out at farang-oriented restaurants and checking the latest imported grub at Villa, they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand. They have retired and are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET.

I'm not sure how strong your financial skills are, but think about compound interest. The formula is A = P(1 + r)^n, where:

A = ending amount

P = principle, or starting capital

r = investment return rate as a percentage per period (e.g. year)

n = number of periods (e.g. years)

The young and wealthy have more time for their capital that they have parked in investments (such as properties, hedge funds) to grow exponentially. An extra 10 or 20 years of investment can make an enormous difference to wealth, much of which can be re-invested. Your assumptions that "they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand" and they "are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET." are wrong. Retirement doesn't necessarily mean an end to investment.

Starting investment early (e.g. at age 30) and with large capital can make a significant difference to one's net worth down the track. e.g. 100k USD invested for 40 years with 10% returns per year that are re-invested would end at over 4.5M USD. If you halve that investment duration (to 20 years) then the ending value would just be 673k USD.

So don't dismiss the young and wealthy, as they can become big investors and spenders as their wealth increases exponentially as they get older. Thailand should welcome such people to stay and spend their exponentially-growing wealth here. Removing the age requirement for the retirement visa would be a good way to do that.

Edited May 14, 2014 by hyperdimension

[LivinLOS]

but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

I actually do work O&G and I am calling BS on your statement.

I am talking real about O&G guys, not the ones who tell you they work or worked O&G, (bit like the Ex SAS/Navy Seals etc)....there are blagger's about

Who in their right mind would lower themself to fake they work in the O&G industry?

This country sure attract some strange characters.

I have run out of likes today.. So consider this a double like !!!

[ExpatOilWorker]

This is certainly going to impact the younger folks that work outside of Thailand but live here, and can't get a retirement visa or a mairrage visa. Is there any talk of new visa types?

I would reckon that the few that have enough cash to have retired early are a pretty small minority and since they are retired, the Thai's don't see them as a sufficiently long term 'investment' to afford them any preferential visa status. Sure they may have a chunk of change and 'buy' a house in a gated community in Chiang Mai, Samui or Phuket but apart from their dining out at farang-oriented restaurants and checking the latest imported grub at Villa, they aren't ever going to contribute significant income inside Thailand. They have retired and are not about to invest in any Thailand-based-and-revenue-earning business or the SET.

I guess I'm one of these. Married with kids though, so I'm on the family extensions. Thailand benefits around 2M baht/y from me as I bring a part of that "chunk" here. I use very few resources I don't directly pay for, so ought to be a good deal to them. You might well be right with the under 50's with cash being too small a group to warrant any special rules. I'm the only one I personally know, every one else around here in the farang ghettos seem to be 50+.

One solution would be to have another "retirement" class without the 50y limit, but to require the 800k freshly transferred to Thailand every year and spent here. A cow that's willing to be milked shouldn't be left standing. The other would be pay-per-stay, xxx$/d. Easy enough to implement.

The immigration does have a point with visa exemptions being abused, as well as TR and ED visas. IMHO it would be easier for them to offer a couple of legit ways to cash in on the long term "tourists", after having an viable option nobody would bother with loopholes.

In all seriousness, it is kind of the Thais own making and they are caught between a rock and a hard place. They want they large number of tourist and have for years achieved that by offering free visa exempt to a long list of nationalities. On the other hand, I doubt they can legally implement your suggestions with pay/stay, without risking similar retaliation against Thai's travelling abroad.

[TechnikaIII]

Within obvious practical limitations, I would choose travel by rail anywhere, anytime, rather than flying. But a train traveler is considered as a "walk in" which is a discrimination, being profiled as a bum, and thus a suspect.

[Soutpeel]

I didn't realise that there's real oilfield trash and wannabe oilfield trash. Thanks Soutpeel!

Yeap come across a few of them over the years in both BKK and Pattaya...I think wannabee's is the correct term and suspect they sit in bars listening to the genuine guys tell the stories and then they get all Walter Mitty and start repeating the same stories as if they were there, but eventually they slip up and you figure out that they are talking BS when you start asking them questions any "oil field trash" would know.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I didn't realise that there's real oilfield trash and wannabe oilfield trash. Thanks Soutpeel!

Yeap come across a few of them over the years in both BKK and Pattaya...I think wannabee's is the correct term and suspect they sit in bars listening to the genuine guys tell the stories and then they get all Walter Mitty and start repeating the same stories as if they were there, but eventually they slip up and you figure out that they are talking BS when you start asking them questions any "oil field trash" would know.

Have they found the key for the V-door?

I am still looking for it, but maybe the door is locked and the key is behind it.

[nidieunimaitre]

Another confusing article - many references to tourist visas rather than visa exempt arrivals. Are they now saying that even on a double entry tourist visa you are not allowed to do an 'in-out'?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If the general has it his way, that question would be irrelevant, since QUOTE 30 days is enough UNQUOTE - so no more tourist visas as they are 60 days or plus.

Ah, the general had his 5 minutes of glory.

[Soutpeel]

but theres 1000s, possibly 10's of 1000s of these guys..

I actually do work O&G and I am calling BS on your statement.

I am talking real about O&G guys, not the ones who tell you they work or worked O&G, (bit like the Ex SAS/Navy Seals etc)....there are blagger's about

Including diving, ROV, and all the ancillaries ??

I know loads of these guys, in fact they make up the bulk of the professional long stayers.. I knew probably over 100 on Phuket, I know a bunch in Hua Hin and assume the same in Patts.. I can only know a fraction of them.

Yes, mate if you had come back and said at best a couple of thousand at best, I wouldn't have said a word, but 1000's possibly 10's of 1000's...

Although the business is world wide in the scheme of things its quite a "small" business as regards the number of people involved in rotational work

and then factor how many who live or take their hitch breaks in Thailand, its not a very big number...

[Soutpeel]

A special O&G visa, I like your thinking. it should have a cool name also, like Non-O&G (trash) Visa.

Non "O" (Rig Pig) visa...

Sure, that will do. Of course this visa will hold special requirements, like tattoos (henna tattoos for junior personnel) and the ability to communicate complex problems in simple 2 word sentences.

You get a special 2 year extended visa if you have lost more than 2 fingers during any hitch....