Condo-Prices.

[swissie]

In a nutshell:

Friend of mine has been selling condos in Pattaya on a commission basis for the last 15 years. He claims "worst year ever!" I asked "Why is that so?"

His reply:

- Political unrest is a factor.

- Prices have reached the upper end of the envelope by all measures of yield/resale value. This with regard that the infrastructure of Pattaya (Roads-Traffic / Sewage disposal etc. etc). has not kept up with the massive construction boom

But the main "sales-killer" seems to be the Thai-Lady at the side of the Farang that declares something like "with the same money you can build very big house in my hometown". According to my friend, = major sales-killer, these days.

Question: Anyone working in this field for any length of time= Have you made same or similar experiences that would confirm this trend (or not)?

Thanks & cheers.

[KittenKong]

I think the main reason is that there are only so many idiots fresh off the banana boat who are prepared to "invest" in Thai property.

The sh*t-on-fan display will probably be quite spectacular when (if) all the new builds in town actually get built and all the people who signed up for multiple units off-plan realise that no one is interested in buying them from them, or renting them from them.

[MyTHaiMyKe]

They are way overpriced for the size you are getting! They want over 1 million for a shoebox! They should be selling for at least half of the asking price! They can keep their cheap furnishings, sometimes ugly furniture and just sell the unit! Same with private owners selling with their furniture, most don't want their old furniture! You have to pay extra to have their junk hauled away!!! The labor here is cheap and the workmanship is little to be desired! Maybe if they sit empty for a while, they will realize they will have to lower the price, or lose their shirts on them! I will wait until that day comes!!

[Asiantravel]

They are way overpriced for the size you are getting! They want over 1 million for a shoebox! They should be selling for at least half of the asking price! They can keep their cheap furnishings, sometimes ugly furniture and just sell the unit! Same with private owners selling with their furniture, most don't want their old furniture! You have to pay extra to have their junk hauled away!!! The labor here is cheap and the workmanship is little to be desired! Maybe if they sit empty for a while, they will realize they will have to lower the price, or lose their shirts on them! I will wait until that day comes!!

ha ha you obviously haven't been in Thailand very long because that's not how it works

if they have any difficulty selling the property they increase the price

[Swiss1960]

They are way overpriced for the size you are getting! They want over 1 million for a shoebox! They should be selling for at least half of the asking price! They can keep their cheap furnishings, sometimes ugly furniture and just sell the unit! Same with private owners selling with their furniture, most don't want their old furniture! You have to pay extra to have their junk hauled away!!! The labor here is cheap and the workmanship is little to be desired! Maybe if they sit empty for a while, they will realize they will have to lower the price, or lose their shirts on them! I will wait until that day comes!!

ha ha you obviously haven't been in Thailand very long because that's not how it works

if they have any difficulty selling the property they increase the price

yep... or keep the condo empty for years, because they would loose "face" if they would sell under the price they paid...

[KittenKong]

As opposed to the US or Europe where they try to give real estate away and lose everything that's been "invested" for years and years and leaving the mortgage holders (like Countrywide)to collapse under the weight of non-performing loans. Love it when people from the west have all the answers regarding the pricing of real estate.

People hang on to worthless condos here because it costs them virtually nothing to do so: no property ownership taxes and low maintenance costs, and mostly they didn't take out any loans to buy it.

People dump worthless property in the West because of high property taxes, high maintenance costs and high mortgage repayments. Thais would do exactly the same in the same situation.

[bartender100]

Pattaya condo construction seems to be booming more than ever before imho, from my condo window I can see 6 major buildings going up, are they being sold is anyone's guess, but its not stopping the developers.

[KittenKong]

Friend of mine has been selling condos in Pattaya on a commission basis for the last 15 years. He claims "worst year ever!" I asked "Why is that so?"

Another possible reason: there are nearly as many estate agents here as there are condos for sale. In some streets every other shop seems to be an estate agent.

[Skint]

Another reason could be that the buyers are now mostly Thai and they won't buy from a farang.

[JSixpack]

It's time for the ol' CONDO GLUT thread again! Been wondering where the Glutters had gone, so quiet as of late.

But a totally new factor has entered into the GLUT equation: Thai women. Unlike in all the previous years, this year they've inexplicably announced a preference for a house in their villages over a condo in PTY! This comes a shock.

It's quite a big issue if newly-built condos in PTY that our forum members don't own--and never will own--just sit there being owned by developers or speculators. It means that developers or speculators are owning them. Ergo, the long-prophesied total collapse of the Pattaya economy.

[KittenKong]

It's quite a big issue if newly-built condos in PTY that our forum members don't own--and never will own--just sit there being owned by developers or speculators. It means that developers or speculators are owning them. Ergo, the long-prophesied total collapse of the Pattaya economy.

I know several people who have signed contracts on off-plan condos with no intention of still being around to buy them when the build completes, and who so far are unable to sell them on at a profit. One of them is actually an estate agent here.

Whilst the Pattaya economy may not fail if the condo bubbles bursts it may make quite a difference to those who have "invested" in it. Any global drop in prices would also make a difference to those who have merely bought a condo to live in themselves, without any attempt to invest or speculate.

[Langsuan Man]

The developers keep building because the world is awash in cash

Banks and governments are not paying much in interest so people with money have to do something with it and putting it into buildings and property appears to be the way to get rid of this excess liquidity

[PattayaPhom]

Your friend is a fool and obviously hasnt learned anything in his 15 years. That objection can easily be overcome by explaining ownership leglislation and also its possible to puchase a house in Pattaya, Bang Saray, Sattahip or Rayong...no need to move to the boonies with the buffaloes. Plenty of houses priced just over 1 mil.

Reasonably priced and over 32sqm in a good location are still selling like hotcakes. Have a waiting list of clients with funds in place. Your friend seems to only deal with developers that are selling 24sqm cells.....advise him to go on a training course and broaden his horizons.

Edited May 14, 2014 by PattayaPhom

[luk AJ]

I also think the condo market is heading for a real estate bubble. Only in the very high-end market you could consider the risk. I had a condo at Portofino (only yacht port in Pataya Jomtien) and even there I had difficulties to re-sell without profit. Condos in that building maybe sold 50 % but they keep it very well maintained with a low common fee of 25thb/m2.

[Rupert2]

I've owned a vacation " shoebox " = less than a new car. If I put 35,000 into a car it wouldn't be worth half the price after 5 years. Also selling condos and getting 5% of 35,000 might not make a lot.

I've paid 200 bucks a year for maitainace fees - per year - no taxes.

As said - little motivation to sell. Paid cash - little yearly costs.

Now might be a good time to buy - as the baht will probably just get stronger again.

Just a place to keep your stuff and a small investment - and a cool swimming pool to boot.

[Pattaya46]

Any global drop in prices would also make a difference to those who have merely bought a condo to live in themselves, without any attempt to invest or speculate.

Why that?

If they bought to live in, they don't intendend to sell

and don't care too much about their condo price.

[shirtless]

The condo market is ready to spike, yes spike more buyers than condos available, Condo prices look likely to double over the next year yes thats correct.So rush out now and buy as many as you can afford and you will be rich i mean we will be rich..

Written by condo developer

[guzzi850m2]

And yet they are building condos all over the place and some of them are huge, I think Russians are the biggest buyers now.

[craigt3365]

I've got a friend in one of the more popular buildings in town. He's been playing around with selling for a few years. He figures the price has dropped some 15% over the past 2-3 years. Too much competition from the newer buildings. And too many units on the market. If he does sell, it will be below what he paid for it 6-7 years ago.

[Rupert2]

The condo market is ready to spike, yes spike more buyers than condos available, Condo prices look likely to double over the next year yes thats correct.So rush out now and buy as many as you can afford and you will be rich i mean we will be rich..

Written by condo developer

I've never bought a property to make money - not my business.

If your making a home - or part time home - you might like to have a place to keep your stuff at - or even to rent out.

Some people just can't be carrying all their things from place to place. some people might buy for plans in the future - like retirement.

I bought for about the price of a new car. Just saying - so far so good.

I wouldn't buy trying to make money - unless I was in the business.

At VT 1 I've been very happy for years. The money I put in is about the same. If I bought an extra car - well we know about cars.

Actually I bought because of the low maintenance fees per year ( 200 bucks a year ). There is no yearly taxes. Seems like sales prices are alright. 500 units - very cool swimming pool and security.

I lived at VT 1 for several weeks before I bought one. YMMV

It seems like money in the bank - or at least better than any car I've purchased.

[chris2004]

Pattaya condo construction seems to be booming more than ever before imho, from my condo window I can see 6 major buildings going up, are they being sold is anyone's guess, but its not stopping the developers.

Me too, there must be 2-3,000 units being built within a km or so. Who is buying. I often pass the new Axis development, 400 units but only 1 or 2 lights on.

[ThaiBob]

The condo market might be in for a temporary slowdown if Putin implements the rumored restrictions on Russian travel that will only have a negative impact. The political unrest is another story, I would suspend any buying plans until the big picture is clearly in focus.

[PattayaPhom]

Pattaya condo construction seems to be booming more than ever before imho, from my condo window I can see 6 major buildings going up, are they being sold is anyone's guess, but its not stopping the developers.

Me too, there must be 2-3,000 units being built within a km or so. Who is buying. I often pass the new Axis development, 400 units but only 1 or 2 lights on.

Lights on at night is no way way how to judge. Most people are out at night. Look at the lights on in Rimhad, hardly any, yet these blocks are almost full all year round.

[JSixpack]

Pattaya condo construction seems to be booming more than ever before imho, from my condo window I can see 6 major buildings going up, are they being sold is anyone's guess, but its not stopping the developers.

Me too, there must be 2-3,000 units being built within a km or so. Who is buying. I often pass the new Axis development, 400 units but only 1 or 2 lights on.

Lights on at night is no way way how to judge. Most people are out at night. Look at the lights on in Rimhad, hardly any, yet these blocks are almost full all year round.

+1. Was waiting for the inevitable invocation of the barstool "lights on" measure. I almost pre-empted it in my post.

[JSixpack]

I've got a friend in one of the more popular buildings in town. He's been playing around with selling for a few years. He figures the price has dropped some 15% over the past 2-3 years. Too much competition from the newer buildings. And too many units on the market. If he does sell, it will be below what he paid for it 6-7 years ago.

Has the baht strengthened compared to his home currency in the 6-7 years? Just wondering.

[PattayaPhom]

Pattaya condo construction seems to be booming more than ever before imho, from my condo window I can see 6 major buildings going up, are they being sold is anyone's guess, but its not stopping the developers.

Me too, there must be 2-3,000 units being built within a km or so. Who is buying. I often pass the new Axis development, 400 units but only 1 or 2 lights on.

Lights on at night is no way way how to judge. Most people are out at night. Look at the lights on in Rimhad, hardly any, yet these blocks are almost full all year round.

+1. Was waiting for the inevitable invocation of the barstool "lights on" measure. I almost pre-empted it in my post.

Yep, the poster was out at night himselfe to notice there are not many lights on

[Rupert2]

I've got a friend in one of the more popular buildings in town. He's been playing around with selling for a few years. He figures the price has dropped some 15% over the past 2-3 years. Too much competition from the newer buildings. And too many units on the market. If he does sell, it will be below what he paid for it 6-7 years ago.

Has the baht strengthened compared to his home currency in the 6-7 years? Just wondering.

Right - where is the baht - also ( for me at least ) I wouldn't put my life savings Now might be a good time. 6- 7 years seems now might be a good time.

for me it was a price of a car. Condo with pool seems not a bad deal.

Maintenance fees of 200 bucks a year was the main thing.

Even if I lost money on a sale - it couldn't be as bad as a used car.

Take a look at VT 1 and prices over the past 7 years. Pretty much even or better.

Buy a car - we all know.

[JSixpack]

It's quite a big issue if newly-built condos in PTY that our forum members don't own--and never will own--just sit there being owned by developers or speculators. It means that developers or speculators are owning them. Ergo, the long-prophesied total collapse of the Pattaya economy.

I know several people who have signed contracts on off-plan condos with no intention of still being around to buy them when the build completes, and who so far are unable to sell them on at a profit. One of them is actually an estate agent here.

So? All speculation has its risks, which speculators factor in from the beginning. Only an idiot doesn't understand that. I agree that idiots shouldn't be speculating, but, after all, they're free to do so. Similarly the mentally ill have a right to live on the streets. We're talking about a very small number.

Whilst the Pattaya economy may not fail if the condo bubbles bursts it may make quite a difference to those who have "invested" in it. Any global drop in prices would also make a difference to those who have merely bought a condo to live in themselves, without any attempt to invest or speculate.

What difference is that for present owners, exactly? Actually a drop in condo prices could have a stimulative effect as more buyers would buy. If accompanied by a currency depreciation, more so. Fact, it'd be a good time for a present owner to pick up another unit or two.

That's what happened in the '97 crash when Chicken Littles ran rampant on the forum. Previous to that, the Glutters had been pounding their tom-toms as usual. Those with half a brain took advantage of the golden opp'y.

The "investors" know that investments carry risks and that values rise and fall. They've taken those into account. Otherwise, they're not investors.

[KittenKong]

Any global drop in prices would also make a difference to those who have merely bought a condo to live in themselves, without any attempt to invest or speculate.

Why that?

If they bought to live in, they don't intendend to sell

and don't care too much about their condo price.

It wont make an immediate difference in their wallet, true.

But many may intend to sell one day before going home, even if it's not planned for the near future. Or they may be thinking of some inheritance value they may be passing on one day. That loss may not be felt physically but it is still there.

Everyone knows that if you buy a car or a TV etc it will lose nearly all its value in 10 years or so, but few people like to find out that a property asset they have bought has dropped significantly in value as that generally just means they would have been a lot better off renting for x years and buying later, if at all.

[JSixpack]

It wont make an immediate difference in their wallet, true.

Good progress. Now, it may not make any future difference either or even a positive difference. All you have is just some "what if" hot air.

But many may intend to sell one day before going home, even if it's not planned for the near future. Or they may be thinking of some inheritance value they may be passing on one day. That loss may not be felt physically but it is still there.

No. That "loss" isn't there, if ever, until the sale. Trying to imply a non-existent loss is a loss simply reflects a personal bias and shouldn't be taken seriously. What IS felt, generally, is the satisfaction of having your own place and not throwing away money on rent.

Everyone knows that if you buy a car or a TV etc it will lose nearly all its value in 10 years or so, but few people like to find out that a property asset they have bought has dropped significantly in value as that generally just means they would have been a lot better off renting for x years and buying later, if at all.

The value of any property asset anywhere can of course rise and fall. One thing good about here is that condos are cheap enough so that farangs can afford to pay cash, hence avoiding an underwater mortgage as in the UK or USA. You can as well fear-monger in those countries.

No, that generally doesn't mean they would have been better off renting, as even in the worst case they've had the advantages & satisfaction of ownership over the duration; and so what if they might gained a few more baht by having left their money in a bank account. That possibility had already been considered and factored in; it's manageable and insignificant, except to some miserable bean counter. There's just more to life than wanking over your bankbook.

Your next predictable but invalid niggle will be that not every last owner is perfectly happy with his purchase. But that's true of everything. Go look at product reviews at amazon.com or newegg.com.

Incredibly, the many thousands of farang owners aren't flooding in here w/ complaints, though you do hear the occasional complaint, mostly from idiots who bought off-plan. The hardcore complainers, the HATE CONDOS brigade and the Glutters, are almost always--merely renters. I've yet to understand why renters are complaining about condos they don't own, never have owned, and never will own, but such is the forum.

And so we've repeated the same posts from the last CONDO GLUT thread. Please try to remember that your arguments have been answered and refuted--again. Till the next one . . . .

Edited May 14, 2014 by JSixpack