Wreck off Haiti may be Columbus' flagship Santa Maria

[Emster23]

"This is the ship that changed the course of human history," Clifford said.

Without doubt, the world would have been totally different if Columbus hadn't discovered the part of the world that now wants to control the whole world.

Ah...... The Euroweenies complaining because THEIR attempts to control the whole world didn't work out as planned. Can't wait to hear what they have to say when Chinese are calling the shots......

[Emster23]

USA would not be USA without the French, which I would call more than just "help". Do not remember figures, but large percentage at Yorktown were French troops, French navy kept the Brit navy out, most of the gunpowder etc was French made. Without the French, the British could have easily crushed the rebels. I am an American, btw, but credit needs to be given where credit is due.

[Som wat]

America is named after Amerigo Vespucci, the Italian explorer who set forth the then revolutionary concept that the lands that Christopher Columbus sailed to in 1492 were part of a separate continent.

Well I would never have known that.

Maybe it's because Columbus thought he was in China and Japan.

Incorrect.

Him calling the natives 'Indians' might give you a clue to where he thought he was.

Yes, it is indeed a clue, but not for me, for you. He thought he was in The Indies.

Which then described Asia.

Incorrect.

The Indies was used to describe the land from present day India to South East Asia.

FYI the name itself comes from the River Indus and was used to describe the parts of Asia that came under Indian cultural influence.

At no point does it, or did it include China and Japan.

If there's anything else you need help with, let me know.

[Chicog]

If there's anything else you need help with, let me know.

Yes I need help working out how you know more than Sterling Professor the late Edmund S. Morgan.

During the decade before 1492, as Columbus nursed a growing urge to sail west to the Indies—as the lands of China, Japan and India were then known in Europe—he was studying the old writers to find out what the world and its people were like.

It's a nice read actually I recommend it.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/columbus-confusion-about-the-new-world-140132422/?no-ist

[Som wat]

You'll simply have to inform him that he is incorrect.

Perhaps you can get his book revised.

[RubbaJohnny]

USA would not be USA without the French, which I would call more than just "help". Do not remember figures, but large percentage at Yorktown were French troops, French navy kept the Brit navy out, most of the gunpowder etc was French made. Without the French, the British could have easily crushed the rebels. I am an American, btw, but credit needs to be given where credit is due.

The Nation's 'saviour' is recognised

The Lafayette Statue at Lafayette Park, located across from the White House in Washington, DC, is in honor of Marquis De Lafayette

In 1944 honour was repaid in blood in Normandy

[RubbaJohnny]

A lot of disappointment if it turns out to me another wreck or first discovery of

Welsh

Chinese

Africans

Phoenicians

Thuatha da Danna

Aleutians

Asians

Norwegians

who all seems to have tales of seeking a park in Mnahattan but giving up

A great writer Wilde said America was not discovered it was merely detected,most chose to turn round

Of course he book of moroni has a moronic explanation.

Fortunaely Xenu of the slantologisms claims precedence despite himself only being detected five decades ago

We can be almost vertain from human genome that long before TV,radio and even pyramids asian streetwalkers Berimg straights wandered towards Wassila Alaska.

Undocumented an old witch of the period one Shrew Pale knitted in her beard using Tbags

"You can See the Russians Coming from here"

Edited May 14, 2014 by RubbaJohnny

[attento]

Wow -- history certainly brings the worst out of some people

May I suggest, it is the lack of a modern understanding of history which causes such "amusing" reaction.

Edited May 15, 2014 by attento

[chuckd]

Something I have noticed on this forum since being a member from its inception.

Nothing will bring the Brits and Aussies together quicker than a US bashing thread.

Have fun.

[jpinx]

They came back in 1814 and marched an army through the heartland of the USA then defeated a larger army at Bladensberg in what became known as the Bladensberg Races for the manner in which the American army ran away. They then took Washington and all the government buildings including the Whitehouse in which they sat down and ate the meal that had been prepared for the US President before he too had to run away. Having filled their bellies they burned the Whitehouse and other government buildings in retribution for the American destruction of private property in Canada.

The British remained the number one power in the world until bled dry by two world wars with Germany, nothing to do with the war in the American colonies more than 150 years previously.

How was this possible ? How could the biggest and wealthiest empire that the world had ever seen be bled dry by two wars ?

Where did all the money go ?

Is it possible that the fat cats that are bleeding the West dry today, are the same type of fat cats that bled all the wealth from the British Empire to the detriment of it Citizens ?

Not only the British -- who didn't discover much, but colonised a lot. The Spanish and Portuguese had big empires, even the French, Dutch, and others "claimed" large territories as part of their "right". Now look at the mess they are all in. Colonisation always comes home to roost, as Russia and USA have also discovered.

There's one other aspect not to be overlooked. History's "official" version is invariably written by the victors. It takes a long time for the truth to come out.

[dighambara]

"This is the ship that changed the course of human history," Clifford said.

Without doubt, the world would have been totally different if Columbus hadn't discovered the part of the world that now wants to control the whole world.

The West Indies wants to control the world...???

If you were referring to the US - couldn't be farther from the truth.

The US was the only major power to escape WWII without damage, thus inherited the rebuilding process, management of former enemies, et.al.

As am isolationist nation, the US has been trying to get rid of that responsibility ever since

[Somtamnication]

The natives will have a lot to celebrate with this discovery.

[Scott]

A lot of posts and replies have been deleted. The topic is about Columbus' discovery (or re-discovery) of what turned out to be two continents. It's not about the Revolutionary War.

Please stick to the topic.

[boomerangutang]

Colonisation can be bad, but good things can come from it. Most countries in Africa would be better off now, if they hadn't become independent.

Columbus, known as 'Colon' in Spanish, was an interesting man. He wasn't a full-of-himself conqueror like Spanish and Portuguese fiends who soon followed him. Most of mankind wasn't enlightened then, and we aren't enlightened now, in terms of environmental husbandry and respect for cultures different than our own.

[EyesWideOpen]

There are a lot of people who seem somewhat devoid about history knowledge......For the record, Columbus NEVER EVER set foot in America proper. He basically discovered the Caribbean. I

have no idea why people keep yapping on about him discovering America.

Edited May 21, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[Credo]

He sort of debunked the idea that there was nothing there and that you would just fall off the edge of the earth.

[GentlemanJim]

<

Something I have noticed on this forum since being a member from its inception.

Nothing will bring the Brits and Aussies together quicker than a US bashing thread.

Have fun.

Point taken, but let's be honest, the first totally unnecessary 'bashing' post was the one below from the 'cusins'.

"This is the ship that changed the course of human history," Clifford said.

Without doubt, the world would have been totally different if Columbus hadn't discovered the part of the world that now wants to control the whole world.

UH, that was England before it got too puny to do anything at all. England was the King of Colonizers and World Controllers.

The first damn thing England did to the new colonies established after Columbus was to send the British Army and take control and make America its colony, and start putting heavy taxes for the King on imports. Remember the Boston Tea Party?

The Americans had their own guns and went after that king's army, and with the help of France ran him off.

Britain went home with its tail between its legs and hasn't amounted to a shit since. All it can do is sit and whine.

So, master historian, who do you think those 'Americans' were? Have you got caught up in watching Mel Gibson's 'Patriot' a bit too much. Those 'Americans' did not as you imagine speak with a New York drawl or in fact any hint of an American accent. Those 'Americans' were mostly rogue British and French folks, many were ex British Army and Navy who, in search of a better life, had fled from the stupidity of the Kings campaign. The only way to ensure that they did not dangle on the end of the hangman's noose was to help ensure the 'British' were driven out. Americans simply did not exist at that time as you would have us believe.

As for Britain 'not amounting to shit since', it went on to control an empire the likes of which not even the US does today. The mistake we made was stopping at Waterloo

From a historical perspective, I find it very exciting that this wreck has been found. It could answer many questions that so far have been left to mere supposition, who knows what historic gems may still lie in the sands below the wreck. I hope the recovery is as exciting and rewarding as the finders deserve.

Edited May 21, 2014 by GentlemanJim

[chuckd]

As for Britain 'not amounting to shit since', it went on to control an empire the likes of which not even the US does today. The mistake we made was stopping at Waterloo

The US has never tried to build an empire and has never claimed to have one.

All we have ever asked for is enough land for a cemetary to bury our dead.

[folium]

As for Britain 'not amounting to shit since', it went on to control an empire the likes of which not even the US does today. The mistake we made was stopping at Waterloo

The US has never tried to build an empire and has never claimed to have one.

All we have ever asked for is enough land for a cemetary to bury our dead.

Sorry..quick historical factcheck. Not bashing just adding context.

The 1898 Spanish-American War and the subsequent colonization (actually formal annexation, rather like Putin and Crimea) of Guam, Puerto Rico and the Philippines (and briefly Cuba) were all part of McKinley's imperialist agenda to put the US on the map in imperial terms. While vigorously opposed by various US elements (see Mark Twain's War Prayer) the policy carried the day politically and enjoyed majority support. Hearst and Pulitzer with their "yellow journalism" also contributed to US domestic support for the imperialist agenda. This policy led directly to the Philippine-American War of 1899-1902, a sorry tale of colonial imperialism going sour with unfortunate consequences for the local inhabitants, and also the Platt Amendment of 1901 that laid the basis for a second occupation of Cuba and the creation of Gitmo as a US colony.

Thus not wildly dissimilar to Cristobal Colon and his mission in the Santa Maria.

Edited May 21, 2014 by folium

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted.