Is it appropriate to tell a farang tourist that their behavior is inappropriate?

[MantisMan]

OP didn't say whether any Thais were actually offended or complained.

If the restaurant owner wishes to apply a dress code in her establishment the OP could help her write an appropriate sign to that effect.

Non sense. Common sense is common sense and NOBODY should go shirtless in Tesco, Makro, BigC or any restaurant like that, period, although I have witnessed it.

You don't need a sign to tell you something you WOULD NOT DO in your own country.

The only reason why they do it is because they can get away with it and that's the shame in this whole affair.

[Sigurris]

The OP is fortunate he does not live down on Pattaya. When the Russians hit town he would have a heart attack. It would be a full time occupation telling tourists here that their behaviour is inappropriate. But between hospital visits he could help clean up the streets. I am so glad I do not expect every tourist to know all the customs of every country they visit. My live and let live attitude allows me to glide through this life with a smile on my face.

There is so much to get angry about but it never helps so I let it go. Mai ben rai.

To the op: you say that you hold Thais and their customs in high opinion. So try these two. Mai ben rai and Sanook. See how that works out for you.

[Pii Kate]

It's not so much what you tell them as how you tell them. If you want to educate them to Thai culture be respectful and helpful. e.g, " I remember when I first came here and thought it was fine to...."

[chickenslegs]

OP didn't say whether any Thais were actually offended or complained.

If the restaurant owner wishes to apply a dress code in her establishment the OP could help her write an appropriate sign to that effect.

Non sense. Common sense is common sense and NOBODY should go shirtless in Tesco, Makro, BigC or any restaurant like that, period, although I have witnessed it.

You don't need a sign to tell you something you WOULD NOT DO in your own country.

The only reason why they do it is because they can get away with it and that's the shame in this whole affair.

Nevertheless people DO go shirtless in all these places and people DO do things that they would not do in their own country.

So, clearly, some people DO need a sign.

[Thaiberius]

In my years here I have always minded my own business, and have never said a thing. I do live and let live. More of the story why I posted: I have been a regular customer in this very nice restaurant for two years now. I was sitting there again minding my own business. The Thai woman owner is very sweet and would never say anything to offend anyone. She knows I'm a respectful gentleman. But she did look over at me when she stood in front of those shirtless guys, with her Thai eyes - like she wanted to say, "You're the elder here - can't you monitor your own people?"

I mostly have Thai friends, not many farang friends at all. In Pattaya the Thai's would tell me how much they don't like the Russians. In Chiang Mai they tell me how much they don't like the Chinese. But they have never told me how much they don't like the Aussies, Brits and Americans - I think because they unconsciously lump me with them, and don't want to offend me. I appreciate CivilWars , Dave's and Makkam's remarks. Thanks.

I have an extremely high opinion and respect for the Thai people. Most the time they're more tolerant than I am. I'm not a person who fights or pushes my opinion. I love going shirtless, I'm open-minded, liberated and FREE! but I live here, I'm still a visitor in this land, and I wai to their customs. How do these obnoxious tourist know they are in essence saying f u to the Thai people if nobody says a bloody thing?

Self-righteous bore, give it a rest.

[Old Stud]

OP didn't say whether any Thais were actually offended or complained.

If the restaurant owner wishes to apply a dress code in her establishment the OP could help her write an appropriate sign to that effect.

Yeah must have been a shitty restaurant if they let people in with no shirts on. Sure it wasn't some noodle emporium full of Thai laborers knockin' back whisky?

Actually it was a really nice restaurant. I go there all the time and the ambiance is wonderful. I'm anything but a prude, and I only mentioned this because I felt it was inappropriate, and the sweet owner was put in an obvious uncomfortable position. I didn't say anything because I felt it wasn't my place to. I posed the question to see whether or not I am alone in my "mind your own business" stance. To tell the truth, and I'm not the tourist cop and never will be, but I thought they both needed a "wake up! you're in a nice Thailand restaurant and you're obviously offending the owner and staff" ZEN slap.

[Phoenix1312]

Yes it is okay. Makes me wonder why Thai women find farangs so irresistible . Could it be money?

[abhaya]

In my experience Thais only get really cheesed off at a foreigner's behaviour if it is insulting to the monarchy or or bad behaviour in a temple, and then they'll usually let them know. If it personally offends you then I guess you have a right to say something, but getting offended on someone else's behalf seems pointless.

[LingLek]

Tourists are not expected to know all the mores and customs of every country they visit. Nor do they feel they need to conform to them. Thais understand this in the main and are pretty tolerant. There is no Sharia law here yet.

So why not put it down to people relaxing and letting their hair down while they are on holiday. After all thats what holidays are for.

If you find it so offensive try telling them and see how offended you are with the responses you get.

The mark of a gentleman is how he treats people who can do him no good. Samuel Johnson

You overlooked the rest of the Johnson quote: 'He gives them a horse-whipping.' In fact that's the best solution. Thrash these ethnocentric swine within an inch of their lives.

[cgphuket]

You can ignore them and "live and let live" like I do, then when you read of a tourist assaulted, killed robbed or somehow encountering tragedy, you dont have to write "oh my god, RIP, the poor man, we must do something!!!" posts. I call is social darwinsim.

[Old Stud]

In my years here I have always minded my own business, and have never said a thing. I do live and let live. More of the story why I posted: I have been a regular customer in this very nice restaurant for two years now. I was sitting there again minding my own business. The Thai woman owner is very sweet and would never say anything to offend anyone. She knows I'm a respectful gentleman. But she did look over at me when she stood in front of those shirtless guys, with her Thai eyes - like she wanted to say, "You're the elder here - can't you monitor your own people?"

I mostly have Thai friends, not many farang friends at all. In Pattaya the Thai's would tell me how much they don't like the Russians. In Chiang Mai they tell me how much they don't like the Chinese. But they have never told me how much they don't like the Aussies, Brits and Americans - I think because they unconsciously lump me with them, and don't want to offend me. I appreciate CivilWars , Dave's and Makkam's remarks. Thanks.

I have an extremely high opinion and respect for the Thai people. Most the time they're more tolerant than I am. I'm not a person who fights or pushes my opinion. I love going shirtless, I'm open-minded, liberated and FREE! but I live here, I'm still a visitor in this land, and I wai to their customs. How do these obnoxious tourist know they are in essence saying f u to the Thai people if nobody says a bloody thing?

Self-righteous bore, give it a rest.

I posed a question for discussion. No big deal. My opinion was that it was inappropriate. I am sharing a story of what I see, and you don't have to live here very long to witness some pretty obnoxious behavior - yes I know Pattaya - more so there. I admitted that Thai people are more tolerant than me - I never said I was a perfect example of a human being and . . . I didn't say that my opinion was right. It was never my intention to prove I was right. So self-righteous doesn't fit. I consider someone a bore who has no opinions about anything, and would never speak up no matter what. I am hardly a bore - but I will accept your opinion. I could give it all a rest, but I'm having too much fun.

I will offer this to you: Hawaiian ho'oponopono - I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you . . . . Thaiberius

[LingLek]

Probably the most offensive behaviour tourists get up is photographing their bikini-clad squeezes draped over a Buddha image. Ethnocentrism is a fact of life sadly, especially amongst the narrow-minded and clannish, i.e. the vast majority who take their home values with them wherever they go, like a loaded shotgun. On the other hand, Thailand's beach culture, with its pizza restaurants, happy hours and club scene, doesn't exactly discourage Nottingham City Centre on a Saturday night from emerging like a silicon-inflated phoenix from the ashes of Thai culture. Ibiza is now global in scope. Full moon parties, viagra and vomit are the way to go, dude. Still, I enjoyed reading that comment about the colonialist Chiang Mai veteran. Malapropism or cunning irony? Who are my fellow readers of Thai Visa?

[Mudcrab]

yes it is but only if you want a fist in your mouth

Reminds me of the sign I saw once "Please do not ask for credit as a smack in the mouth often offends"

[razer]

Many tourist would never behave in their home country as they do here. And yes, they reflect badly on the rest of the foreigners here who are normal, decent people.

[Mudcrab]

Feel free to inform them of the local customs and that in the view of the local Thais they are likely seen as disrespectful pigs with a smile and a decidiely un-aggressive attitude. You are simly sharing info, "just some FYI mates" ,have a nice day" and walk away. It is up to them what they do with the info.

Could go one of two ways - a nod , a knowing smile of understanding or a punch in the mouth (or a lot,lot worse) with a have a nice day attached.

Mind your own business. If the locals are upset they will let them know, if they aren't they won't. Mind your own damn business!

[Mudcrab]

If that was the case I would spend most of my time time telling farang tourists and long term"expat visitors" to get them bloody socks off when you are wearing sandals!

[chrisinth]

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I have even seen some smoking and drinking without shirts on.

Now that's TOO much! Shoot them!

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One wonders if they had proper walking shorts on and sensible shoes ?

Sandals & socks could present another dilemma....................

[Fullstop]

The OP is fortunate he does not live down on Pattaya. When the Russians hit town he would have a heart attack. It would be a full time occupation telling tourists here that their behaviour is inappropriate.

On the contrary .. it IS "appropriate" Let's face the truth. Pattaya is a whore town. It was built on whoring ... and the Thai local bigwigs can deny it till they're red in the face (from too much Chang), but the fact still remains.

The only recently acquired Western morals by the Thais can't really be applied in Pattaya. (in pre farang contact days, nakedness was commonplace)

They want the money? They've got to tolerate the rampant "inappropriateness" ... along with anyone else who goes there.

[Asia2000]

It was inappropriate, and I think most agree with OP that is was. However, consider possible outcome:

* Be totally ignored by them.

* F... OFF and more graphic language towards you.

* A FIST in your face.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Asia2000

[YipYipYa123]

The OP is fortunate he does not live down on Pattaya. When the Russians hit town he would have a heart attack. It would be a full time occupation telling tourists here that their behaviour is inappropriate.

On the contrary .. it IS "appropriate" Let's face the truth. Pattaya is a whore town. It was built on whoring ... and the Thai local bigwigs can deny it till they're red in the face (from too much Chang), but the fact still remains.

The only recently acquired Western morals by the Thais can't really be applied in Pattaya. (in pre farang contact days, nakedness was commonplace)

They want the money? They've got to tolerate the rampant "inappropriateness" ... along with anyone else who goes there.

cheap beer and cheaper pussy is never going to attract the hi status tourist that TAT would love to get to pattaya etc

its just not that kind of town ..............

50 thb beers and 500 thb girls will continue to attract the trash they are trying to keep out

[marko kok prong]

There is a lot of bs being posted here,in many western countries you would be refused entry to a restaurant without a shirt,okay maybe in holiday destinations by /on the beach it would be okay,but we are talking Chiang Mai here,the op has already stated it was a decent sort of a restaurant,never in my life and i am not that old would i consider going shirtless into a restaurant,maybe some of the posters here were not taught good manners,and to start banging on about it is not Sharia law here is plain dumb, i for one fully support the op's stance on this ,tourists must realise they are ambassadors for there country and observe local customs,unless of course your are Russian,where the normal rules of civilized behaviour, do not apply.

[puukao]

Who knows, maybe they had a few beers and dressed that like HOPING someone would instigate a fight. I don't like it, since I wonder if I am now in some trash destination with inbreds, but this is generally a lose-lose situation. so, pick your battles. the only time i said anything to anyone was some fat guy smoking in a clear non-smoking section of a restaurant. he did put it out, but i was simply tired from the heat and looked for a nice outlet. it was a cigar in 40 F and he was sitting right under a non-smoking sign.

i also remember a guy who got really beat up after he tried to help a girl getting beat up. if there is karma, they both got some. if not, all he got was beat up.

[Old Stud]

The OP is fortunate he does not live down on Pattaya. When the Russians hit town he would have a heart attack. It would be a full time occupation telling tourists here that their behaviour is inappropriate.

On the contrary .. it IS "appropriate" Let's face the truth. Pattaya is a whore town. It was built on whoring ... and the Thai local bigwigs can deny it till they're red in the face (from too much Chang), but the fact still remains.

The only recently acquired Western morals by the Thais can't really be applied in Pattaya. (in pre farang contact days, nakedness was commonplace)

They want the money? They've got to tolerate the rampant "inappropriateness" ... along with anyone else who goes there.

cheap beer and cheaper pussy is never going to attract the hi status tourist that TAT would love to get to pattaya etc

its just not that kind of town ..............

50 thb beers and 500 thb girls will continue to attract the trash they are trying to keep out

You just get over an off-subject squabble with CNX37 in one forum and come over here and get off-subject again. I think you should turn off your computer, go out, pony up your 500baht and have fun.

[marko kok prong]

Of course you could always try Arjunadawn's approach,dangle crystals over their heads and mumble a load of incoherent new age nonsense,come to think of it that would clear me out of anywhere,shirt or no shirt.

[YipYipYa123]

The OP is fortunate he does not live down on Pattaya. When the Russians hit town he would have a heart attack. It would be a full time occupation telling tourists here that their behaviour is inappropriate.

On the contrary .. it IS "appropriate" Let's face the truth. Pattaya is a whore town. It was built on whoring ... and the Thai local bigwigs can deny it till they're red in the face (from too much Chang), but the fact still remains.

The only recently acquired Western morals by the Thais can't really be applied in Pattaya. (in pre farang contact days, nakedness was commonplace)

They want the money? They've got to tolerate the rampant "inappropriateness" ... along with anyone else who goes there.

cheap beer and cheaper pussy is never going to attract the hi status tourist that TAT would love to get to pattaya etc

its just not that kind of town ..............

50 thb beers and 500 thb girls will continue to attract the trash they are trying to keep out

You just get over an off-subject squabble with CNX37 in one forum and come over here and get off-subject again. I think you should turn off your computer, go out, pony up your 500baht and have fun.

ill let you into a little secret friend .........some of us dont have to pay for it

[DavidInSiam]

Every guide book on Thailand has a section of "do's and don'ts," and this is mentioned every time. I live in Chiang Mai and often go up to the young men and tell them how to get to a market. When they ask why I am telling tjem that, I reply "So you can buy shirts for 99 Baht and show some respect for Thai culture."

[Procrastinator]

In Oz, there is a long running advertising campaign about the wearing of bathers.... The gist being that they are for beaches (or pools), and elsewhere it is inappropriate.

No question though, with regards the OPs post and position.... The tourists are out of line, and would be almost anywhere in the world, i would think.

That said, the restaurant has the right to refuse service, for any number of reasons, and if they choose to put their profit margin above social norms, thats their decision, and you should accept that, as the restaurant needs to make an income to support itself and a myriad of others (staff, suppliers etc)

When i encounter this, which I'm sure is more common in Phuket, than Chiang Mia (really, Chiang. Mai?), i usually react by ensuring that the staff know that i disapprove of the practice, that it embarrasses me personally and i generally apologize for the behavior, in some way

To confront the offenders would be a bad result all around, i would think, causing further embarrassment for all concerned, and perhaps even a physical confrontation. I very much doubt that the offenders would calmly agree and peaceably leave the bar, restaurant, chemist, hospital, mall or where ever

But.... There should really be enforced laws about fat, shirtless scooter riders.... They are way out there beyond rude and disrespectful, and obviously don't own mirrors, unless they are carnival mirrors with a concave surface

[johninbkk71]

95% of Thai men wear long pants?

[Old Stud]

Every guide book on Thailand has a section of "do's and don'ts," and this is mentioned every time. I live in Chiang Mai and often go up to the young men and tell them how to get to a market. When they ask why I am telling tjem that, I reply "So you can buy shirts for 99 Baht and show some respect for Thai culture."

Good for you David. I could have used that one in the restaurant. Thailand is such a diversified place. There are different allowances in different places. Pattaya is a whole lot different than Chiang Mai, and you can get away with a lot more clothing-wise on the islands, whether Thai or farang. Contrary to what one guy said, I just don't see Thai men without their shirts on in Chiang Mai, unless they are young farang. In Pattaya it seems to be some sort of badge of honor for old fat farangs to go around without shirts on. But the locals there have seen it all, like in Patong, have learned to shake their heads. But I know from talking to a lot of local gals in Pattaya, they think its pretty rude. We know it's more rude in the north.

[hawker9000]

The debate here seems to be whether you think you should do something or get involved... A better, or more interesting, question might be: what do thais expect you to do about it, if anything? If the answer to that question is "nothing", then maybe you as a fellow farang really have no business taking it upon yourself to say something.