Is it appropriate to tell a farang tourist that their behavior is inappropriate?

[Greg Nixon]

When in Thailand do as the Thais do. If no Thai is informing them of conventions or regulations why should you ? You can bet these farangs are goofballs who are well aware of their behaviour. They may even be waiting for someone to say something.

[MAJIC]

This Topic has been up recently,and my reply is still the same: I don't wish to see shirtless men unless it's acceptable in certain situations like on the beach,neither d o I wish to see excessive female cleavage on display,to me both of which are embarassingly common,but call me a prude if you like!

I once had a holiday in Spain with my barely just teenager Son, in the Hotel swimming pool for most of the day was a European woman,who insisted on going topless,believe me it was a grusome sight! and we are not talking models here!

Edited May 16, 2014 by MAJIC

[ultimate weapon]

This is known as the farang thinks he's a big phuck syndrome especially prevalent when they go to "poorer" countries.

It's like this. Say farangs from western europe go to eastern europe or maybe russia. The big phuck syndrome isn't as big it's also the same when americans go to any european country. Citizens of the best country in the world think they are big phucks but they don't act that much. It becomes bigger when they go to countries that are not farang and the people are considered more "beta" like you know asians who aren't confrontational. Their big phuck syndrome shows up the most and they think they are like the emperors.

Their big phuck syndrome doesn't show up in countries where the locals are violent even though they are poor say like papua new guinea for example or some african nations. They then keep their big phuck syndrome online in the safety of the internet where they won't suffer physical violence.

Edited May 16, 2014 by ultimate weapon

[BillyBobThai]

Oh, what I would give for every female in Chaing Mai to go topless. I am willing to take the bad with the good.

[susan d]

Maybe Thais think they are rude, but don't know how to do. So only leave it.

[Seastallion]

Feel free to inform them of the local customs and that in the view of the local Thais they are likely seen as disrespectful pigs with a smile and a decidiely un-aggressive attitude. You are simly sharing info, "just some FYI mates" ,have a nice day" and walk away. It is up to them what they do with the info.

Could go one of two ways - a nod , a knowing smile of understanding or a punch in the mouth (or a lot,lot worse) with a have a nice day attached.

Mind your own business. If the locals are upset they will let them know, if they aren't they won't. Mind your own damn business!

I'm very suprised at the number of people that suggest that if the OP had said something he might be hit in return.

I can not imagine that a punch would be the response to a polite, "Excuse me, I don't mean to be rude but did you realise that your shirtlessness is illegal here and offensive to the locals? I just thought I should let you know."

Well, perhaps I can imagine it in an extreme case where the shirtless guy was actually a psychopath.

I can imagine a rude, "F@$k off, mind your own business!" from the not so rare, crass, low class, trailer trash/pikey types, but not a punch.

For those that said if it were them they would smack the OP.....Well, if the hat fits.....

[medisasean]

yes, you should tell them.

[dighambara]

Not much you can say, they don't realize that they are doing anything unusual, in fact they probably think that people are admiring their physique and would be upset if you pointed out that it was unacceptable. In olden days people didn't wear shirts, so 'shirtless' is probably more sensible than Western clothes. Why not see it as harking back to the old values and look forward to females following suit!

I have been in and out of this country for the last 48 years and I still ponder what is rude and what is acceptable - clothing and sexuality...

Examples:

Pattaya 1967 - Foreign women topless on the beach - even buying fruit from roadside vendors.

Tourists at the 'nude beach' - various locations.

Street kids selling picture postcards - YES, that kind...

Kids as old as 14 swimming nude - boys and girls together.

Hill women, Akha, in skirts & vests without underwear - why bother with the tiny bits of cloth..??

Women about the village topless - all age groups.

Teenage and preteen girls flashing and dancing on a hotel balcony - apparently for the construction workers across the way.

YEP, none of that is officially 'Thai'...

[ATF]

It is possible to reply to your post without any real concern of your feelings on this. As I said I will do what I want whatever you say. Luckily you do not run the world. Just for you I will run around with no shirt tomorrow. Different cultures respect or view things differently. If I go to the mid east and it isn't against the law to do so, I will drink alcohol, have sex with women or men, treat women as equals and a whole variety of things that the locals don't do (at least openly) Just because Thailand has some hang ups about nudity and sex in general does not compel me to share them. Some cultural taboos are nothing more then just silly nonsense and can be treated as such.

FWIW it is worth I live in rural Laos and go shirtless all the time. The locals seem to understand it is hot out and believe it or not many of them go shirtless too, and maybe wrapped in only a sarong. So do not lecture me about what goes on out in the sticks.

Keep your shirt on!!!! Time to see a psychologist buddy or try Papua New Guinea. Have you stopped taking your meds?

[coconutbar]

dob on the falang, falang give money police for fine we share money .

falang money too much ( this is what thai is thinking).

[Keesters]

I don't see them as clueless. Stupid, yes. Clueless, no. If they cannot see that but a small fraction of a percent is behaving as they do and that they have been on the receiving end of some nasty stares and not work it out that it is inappropriate then they must be blind as well as stupid. If it offends you, as it would me, tell them. Don't do it for Thai people, do it for yourself. If Thai people are offended let them stand up and say something. I would say something just as I do when somebody smokes in a restaurant, or cuts ahead of me in a line. Normally they don't like it but generally comply. Just make sure your request is polite, without anger and that you have witnesses in case they get nasty.

[AshRegister]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Thais if you think they can't enforce their own rules or deal with offences themselves without a foreigner doing it for them.

I suggest you take you colonialist attitude and start packing

What a cheap nasty shot.

The OP is asking a reasonable question. And one I'm sure Thai's or any nationality would contemplate if they themselves were in another country and faced with boorish behavior of their own.

[JDGRUEN]

Attire or the lack of it can be seen as inappropriate to the surroundings and circumstance. My pet peeve is in America when younger guys are in restaurants - nice places - not fast food and just have to wear their ball caps backwards while eating and otherwise looking like slobs. I don't say anything - just try to ignore it ... but I do have to wonder why the girl with him - who is often wearing a nice dress or blouse and skirt puts up with it...

Anyway... I can understand OP's dislike -- but OP - there is nothing much that can be done - or perhaps should be done.

And - about the lack of long pants on men in Thailand... Geeze some of you guys just need to get over it. Not sure where you come from but in North Texas where I am from - men very often wear shorts - more often that not in summer. Men who wear shorts in Texas are young men - grown men - middle age men - old men. Why? because just like most of Thailand - most of the time - in a North Texas summer it is HOT as HELL and those who choose to always wear long pants in 40C humid weather have something missing between the ears or are so much a slave to convention of their orIgins that they just love sweat running down their covered legs. Few Thais seem to take notice of my wearing of shorts... Fewer Thai women seem to care at all. I wear long pants when the occasion demands it... but going to the market or to a small restaurant to have a bite to eat and a beer, or taking an exercise walk is not that occasion. Also - I have taken note that more and more Thai men are wearing the over the knee 'cargo pants' -- or what I call 'man-prees' - Capri pants for men... Eventually Thai men will wear real shorts more and more as time goes on. (And no the short pants wearers are not all ladyboys)...

[spidermike007]

It is ALWAYS appropriate to ask someone to put their cigarette out, in an area that has no smoking signs posted. Always. And to ask a fareng to show some respect by putting their shirts on is just fine. Some people do not have a clue, and it is ok to remind them they are dropping the ball. Sometimes I ask people on restaurants to keep it down, if they are really carrying on and disturbing a lot of people. I had a Russian guy who literally wanted to tear my head off for saying so. Did I care one iota? No. Even the owner of the restaurant was furious with this fool. I said something. Be bold. Be courageous. Be polite, but feel free to speak your mind with fools.

[Keesters]

When in Thailand do as the Thais do. If no Thai is informing them of conventions or regulations why should you ? You can bet these farangs are goofballs who are well aware of their behaviour. They may even be waiting for someone to say something.

Why should he shut up just because he is not Thai? If he is offended then he should say something on his own behalf. Got nothing to do with the Thai people or Thailand.

[Old Stud]

OP here. Thank you Spider Mike - and my feelings exactly ATF. I appreciated the feedback, although it did slide into troll-land after about 100 posts. I think my personal conclusion is - if my gut tells me to say something, then say it. I've learned that more often than not I get a good response when I tell a woman I don't know that she is beautiful - when I have the impulse to say it, I do. Never been slapped. Khun suuai mak mak. Why not tell a guy he's looking and acting like a pig? My ironic chuckle goes out to all those posters who say "mind your own business" (don't offer your opinion) - why are they posting their opinion on TV? They're certainly not minding their own business. Being alive and active in the world also includes being responsive. I've come here to live my life in the fullest way possible - and maybe that includes responding to my gut feelings, taking the risk of telling some kid to please put your shirt on in a restaurant.

[captspectre]

Tourists are not expected to know all the mores and customs of every country they visit. Nor do they feel they need to conform to them. Thais understand this in the main and are pretty tolerant. There is no Sharia law here yet.

So why not put it down to people relaxing and letting their hair down while they are on holiday. After all thats what holidays are for.

If you find it so offensive try telling them and see how offended you are with the responses you get.

The mark of a gentleman is how he treats people who can do him no good. Samuel Johnson

I disagree, a pig is a pig no matter where he goes! they have no self respect and probably do that in their own country, (the clowns who walk around with their pants so low you can see the crack in their ass!) if you pull that crap in singapore, it won't be long before the boys in blue will want to see your passport! I do agree that is you want to say anything to the losers be ready to whip their usless asses because they will take offense. and "let your hair down while on holiday?" what does that mean? do you really think they do n't behave that way at home?

[ghazel53]

Mind your own business...If you can not tolerate .. then leave...

If they will not let you leave... smile politely and gut them....

[captspectre]

Feel free to inform them of the local customs and that in the view of the local Thais they are likely seen as disrespectful pigs with a smile and a decidiely un-aggressive attitude. You are simly sharing info, "just some FYI mates" ,have a nice day" and walk away. It is up to them what they do with the info.

Could go one of two ways - a nod , a knowing smile of understanding or a punch in the mouth (or a lot,lot worse) with a have a nice day attached.

Mind your own business. If the locals are upset they will let them know, if they aren't they won't. Mind your own damn business!

I'm very suprised at the number of people that suggest that if the OP had said something he might be hit in return.

I can not imagine that a punch would be the response to a polite, "Excuse me, I don't mean to be rude but did you realise that your shirtlessness is illegal here and offensive to the locals? I just thought I should let you know."

Well, perhaps I can imagine it in an extreme case where the shirtless guy was actually a psychopath.

I can imagine a rude, "F@$k off, mind your own business!" from the not so rare, crass, low class, trailer trash/pikey types, but not a punch.

For those that said if it were them they would smack the OP.....Well, if the hat fits.....

you must be talking about the scum bags from austrailia and britain, maybe the U.S. I see them walking arouns on soi four all the time hals boozed!

[ghazel53]

When "other members" ask sensible questions, I will give "my take" on the subject...

As for your attacks on other's comments, it only shows your "racist and self importance" attitude...

"Good Day" to you....

[Old Stud]

When "other members" ask sensible questions, I will give "my take" on the subject...

As for your attacks on other's comments, it only shows your "racist and self importance" attitude...

"Good Day" to you....

Hummm . . . . You're not getting off to a very good start newbie. I had an original post: Is it appropriate to tell a farang tourist that their behavior is inappropriate? OK, I'm telling you #53. The answers would be - I think its appropriate or I don't think its appropriate. All responses are part (or should be) of the appropriate or not appropriate dialogue. This is why we have forums, to discuss certain subjects. I wrote that I was from Chiang Mai. Writing about fat shirtless farangs in Pattaya may be funny, but going off on a tangent. The guy who writes f the Thai culture, I'll do as I please, will only find out sooner or later that Thai people think he's a pig and farangs consider him a total looser. You're already chocking up points in the loser category.

Starting with: I don't know how you define "gutting" someone who doesn't wear a shirt, but it "sounds like" recommending murder. Which is Troll talk and not funny, and brings attention to YOU and not the subject at hand. That is exactly what trolls do. You say you're not a troll, but you were acting exactly like one. Pay attention. ATF asked a fair question, met with a pissy answer.

Something you should know . . . the old timers on TV do keep score. They will label people like you trolls and blackball you as not worth responding to. Maybe you don't care, but you will be disregarded if you keep this up. Keep this in mind: If two months from now I start a new posting and write: I'm 100% heterosexual. Would I be considered gay if I had sex with a beautiful ladyboy? (being silly here) You know what kind of answers I would get, It's appropriate as long as s/he wears a shirt in a restaurant.

There's some very bright people who contribute to TV. You can either be one of them, or another idiot with num-nuts for brains. Up to you. I recommend you tone it down.

[NoshowJones]

I am in Pattaya just now and have already told three Farangs to put on a shirt and hide their fat ugly bodies and show some respect for the country they are visiting.

To counter that effect, I'm taking off my shirt right now. I urge all others in Pattaya reading this to do the same. Resistance!!

All I can say is I hope you are proud of yourself having no respect for the vast majority of decent Thai people. Thailand can do without the likes of you.

[somchaismith]

The op sounds like a right barrel of lauhgs.

[Mitker]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Thais if you think they can't enforce their own rules or deal with offences themselves without a foreigner doing it for them.

I suggest you take you colonialist attitude and start packing

That is a strange reply.

He has some valid points.

He is asking his own kind where the line is in the sand, I don't consider it colonialism. I don't even know why you brought that up.

I actually feel the same as him actually, although i choose not to point it out, I prefer the Thais make up their own mind about a situation like that, and judge them as individuals rather than generalising, which if we were all honest we also generalise against Thais from time to time.... I see no difference, so I don't worry about it.

I personally always look at a country's social conventions and the 'dos and don'ts' before i visit a different country and culture... But that is just me, not everyone does it.

I never cross my gate without a shirt as i understand it is considered a bit vulgar yet not in a serious sense. More in a gossipy sort of way and more among the women.'

I like to be shirtless inside my air con house, and at worst would sit outside in the garden to have the odd ciggy back when I smoked, and sometimes a few Thais may walk past the house and stare at me... But I consider what I do on my property is my choice... But if the Thai family appear, I quickly go and grab a shirt.... Just out of respect.

I wouldn't personally go over and tell them to put a shirt on, but if I ended up being drawn into their company and a chat with them, I may think about dropping it discretely into the conversation if they knew about how 'some' of the Thais feel about being half naked in public places while at the same time stressing it is totally their own choice, but just sort of letting them know on the quiet, and then give a little smile.... I would be very surprised if it were met with abuse, they would probably thank you for sharing your local knowledge... I know I would.

I am totally with you.

A couple of years ago, I saw 2 Western backpackers waiting at the train station resting their feet (+ shoes) on the seats facing them. They were surrounded by around 20 local travelers including a few Monks sitting just a few meter from them.

I simply had to go straight to them and politely inform them of the rudeness of such an attitude in Thai culture. I didn't feel like a policeman, fighter, arrogant colonialist or whatever. Just felt like something had to be done about it.

I could see they were exhausted and hadn't realized at all the offense. I could also see that the locals didn't feel like going to tourists to show their discontent. They immediately adopted a correct attitude understanding the situation.

I just feel that we, in our position of foreigners with some insight into the local culture, can make a difference in such circumstances to fill the obvious cultural gap that leads only to a bad mutual perception with no intend to create it.

To call this colonialism is just stupid

I take the third class train between Chiang Mai and Lamphun province, and when I'm on the train, you're more likely than not to see Thais using the opposite seat as a foot stool. And the little Thai woman that always sits next to me is usually the first to pop her feet up on the bench.

What you do at the Wat is a whole lot different than what you do on the train.

I hear you dude, but my eye's and experience tell me different. Your comment, if made to a group of farang in a temple with their feet pointing toward a statue of Buddha would have been appropriate; on a train??? You probably got confused looks and compliance until they figure it out on their own.

Now really look deep into yourself. Why did you do that? Feet resting on the opposite side of an unused train bench is a non-issue even by Thai standard, but you made it an issue. What inside you moved you to do that?

I do agree with your statement about some locals resting their feet on the opposite benches. However, they usually remove their shoes first.

I think there are several reasons why I did that

Firstly, the proximity of the Monks

Second, I consider resting shoes on seats not just rude but mostly dirty, whatever the place, considering what they have been probably stepping on before

(but even without shoes, I think most people will find it an unpleasant close company)

Third, there were few available seats left in that waiting area, feet should come second on the queue imho

So what moved me to do that was not some dark desire to make it an issue. Like said before, it's rather that I considered the behavior inappropriate in such circumstances. It made me feel uncomfortable toward the Thais.

And after all, they were free to listen or not

[DrTuner]

I am in Pattaya just now and have already told three Farangs to put on a shirt and hide their fat ugly bodies and show some respect for the country they are visiting.

To counter that effect, I'm taking off my shirt right now. I urge all others in Pattaya reading this to do the same. Resistance!!

All I can say is I hope you are proud of yourself having no respect for the vast majority of decent Thai people. Thailand can do without the likes of you.

Here's a thought for you, while sitting in the largest open air whorehouse in the world respecting the local customs together with your tattooed, newly found shirtless friends: Thailand can do without us all. But I reckon if they start purging, it'll be the boring old <deleted> that get thrown out first.

I might just take my shorts off too, the thought of some puritan swallowing his tongue thinking about that is so tempting.

[NoshowJones]

I am in Pattaya just now and have already told three Farangs to put on a shirt and hide their fat ugly bodies and show some respect for the country they are visiting.

To counter that effect, I'm taking off my shirt right now. I urge all others in Pattaya reading this to do the same. Resistance!!

All I can say is I hope you are proud of yourself having no respect for the vast majority of decent Thai people. Thailand can do without the likes of you.

Here's a thought for you, while sitting in the largest open air whorehouse in the world respecting the local customs together with your tattooed, newly found shirtless friends: Thailand can do without us all. But I reckon if they start purging, it'll be the boring old <deleted> that get thrown out first.

I might just take my shorts off too, the thought of some puritan swallowing his tongue thinking about that is so tempting.

As a non drinker, I do not frequent the bars.

[DrTuner]

As a non drinker, I do not frequent the bars.

Don't tell me you specifically came to a crusade for wearing shirts. If so, I have your work cut out for you: there's a lot of fellas in yellow and orange robes who seem to go shirtless pretty much anywhere. Go tell them to wear one.

Of course it might be that they present the actual culture of Siam, not the mandates shoved down the throats of the locals by an ousted military dictator.

[NoshowJones]

As a non drinker, I do not frequent the bars.

Don't tell me you specifically came to a crusade for wearing shirts. If so, I have your work cut out for you: there's a lot of fellas in yellow and orange robes who seem to go shirtless pretty much anywhere. Go tell them to wear one.

Of course it might be that they present the actual culture of Siam, not the mandates shoved down the throats of the locals by an ousted military dictator.

Orange and yellow robes? Are you referring to monks? Bare chested? What about the ones in white robes?

[Rooo]

racist,bickering, insulting posts removed.

Very close to closing this topic, way off course.

[Donnie Brasco]

racist,bickering, insulting posts removed.

Very close to closing this topic, way off course.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "