Is it appropriate to tell a farang tourist that their behavior is inappropriate?

[Benmart]

If that was the case I would spend most of my time time telling farang tourists and long term"expat visitors" to get them bloody socks off when you are wearing sandals!

I wear dress socks with sandals occasionally. I also wear long pants, buttoned shirts and shoes daily unless going to the beach. Having the freedom to do so is wonderful.

I don't spend my day obsessing with what others are wearing.

I'm much happier minding my own business and enjoying the days that I have left in this life.

Easy Does It.

[connda]

In Oz, there is a long running advertising campaign about the wearing of bathers.... The gist being that they are for beaches (or pools), and elsewhere it is inappropriate.

No question though, with regards the OPs post and position.... The tourists are out of line, and would be almost anywhere in the world, i would think.

That said, the restaurant has the right to refuse service, for any number of reasons, and if they choose to put their profit margin above social norms, thats their decision, and you should accept that, as the restaurant needs to make an income to support itself and a myriad of others (staff, suppliers etc)

When i encounter this, which I'm sure is more common in Phuket, than Chiang Mia (really, Chiang. Mai?), i usually react by ensuring that the staff know that i disapprove of the practice, that it embarrasses me personally and i generally apologize for the behavior, in some way

To confront the offenders would be a bad result all around, i would think, causing further embarrassment for all concerned, and perhaps even a physical confrontation. I very much doubt that the offenders would calmly agree and peaceably leave the bar, restaurant, chemist, hospital, mall or where ever

But.... There should really be enforced laws about fat, shirtless scooter riders.... They are way out there beyond rude and disrespectful, and obviously don't own mirrors, unless they are carnival mirrors with a concave surface

I thinking that no one's been in a hotel restaurant in Cancun, Mexico during Spring Break. Money and patronage talks. Shirtless bodies abound. Rules go out the window. So when I hear, "No where in the world is this behavior tolerated", I just have to laugh.

I love it. "Civilized' Westerners come to a developing country and the first thing they want to do is impose 'rules'. Make things proper, and fitting, and organized. Punish non-compliance. Impose your own ethics. I left the West to get away from that suffocating clap-trap. Be a Coyote: Cast off your old tired ethics. More than likely ya'll will go back to your gated communities with their community rules and enforcement committees to make sure the grass is cut exactly 2 cm high, etc, etc, etc. Ya'll feel more at home like that, huh? lol

[thrilled]

To me the best thing to do is bite your tongue.I mean they are drinking alcohol,liquid courage.They could get physical.Think about A thai jail.Not pleasant.Go ahead and do what ya want.Me I'm in A different country,I'm going to ignore it.

[Procrastinator]

You must be the moron that wai's all the spirit houses and wears 10 tons of amulets around his neck.

You are so smart you brought your wife to Thailand. The OP didn't ask a moronic question. If the OP had mentioned Pattaya or Phuket I would laugh, but this behavior is not acceptable outside those areas. As other posters have said Thai's just think you are trailer trash walking around without a shirt on or even a sleeveless vest. Craig??? You must be an Aussie so I understand.

I don't understand this drivel.

Is this contributor saying that there is issues with people who bring their wife's to Thailand?

If so, why?

My wife and i have lived here for five years now. We came for the culture and climate, not to mention escaping the rat race of modern western life, and are immensely happy with the decision to move to Thailand, and believe it was a smart move.

I am not here to chase bar girls and cheap booze.... And nor do i look down on those that have come here for that.... To each his own

Per my earlier post, i agree that public nakedness, or part nakedness, is inappropriate in this country, away from a beach, and especially in a restaurant, so I agree with the OPs opinion.

And neither do i understand your attack on Australians.... Whats the story there? Beaten by one at the bar or gambling houses or muay thai or something, were you?

And yes.... My wife and i are Australian.

[connda]

If that was the case I would spend most of my time time telling farang tourists and long term"expat visitors" to get them bloody socks off when you are wearing sandals!

I wear dress socks with sandals occasionally. I also wear long pants, buttoned shirts and shoes daily unless going to the beach. Having the freedom to do so is wonderful.

I don't spend my day obsessing with what others are wearing.

I'm much happier minding my own business and enjoying the days that I have left in this life.

Easy Does It.

555 Good for you

I pull my socks up to the top of my calves when I wear shorts. I'm past the days of being fashionable, or maybe I'm on the cusp of a new fashion statement! (never know) Either way, I don't care about the opinions of others. I'm living my life without doing harm to other, unless dressing bad is a crime. Laugh behind by back, disparage me with your friends; I'm not here to be co-dependent on other's wore out sense of fashion and perceived ethics. And I mind my own business when I'm out and about.

[DrTuner]

I love it. "Civilized' Westerners come to a developing country and the first thing they want to do is impose 'rules'. Make things proper, and fitting, and organized. Punish non-compliance. Impose your own ethics. I left the West to get away from that suffocating clap-trap. Be a Coyote: Cast off your old tired ethics. More than likely ya'll will go back to your gated communities with their community rules and enforcement committees to make sure the grass is cut exactly 2 cm high, etc, etc, etc. Ya'll feel more at home like that, huh? lol

Most of the West is suffocating, yes. I chose Pattaya much because of it's utterly out of whack anything goes atmosphere. I'm sure there are ultra-conservative Thais (somehow the Thai-Chinese pop to mind), but the very nature of Pattaya repels them. Or so I hope. They seem to crawl here through my monitor, maybe I should close TVF before they materialize

Was it you who wrote about the tolerance of Thais being the one feature they have that's actually very desirable ? Anyway I do agree. Being tolerated is as close to freedom one can get without moving to the mountains and becoming a hermit.

[connda]

I love it. "Civilized' Westerners come to a developing country and the first thing they want to do is impose 'rules'. Make things proper, and fitting, and organized. Punish non-compliance. Impose your own ethics. I left the West to get away from that suffocating clap-trap. Be a Coyote: Cast off your old tired ethics. More than likely ya'll will go back to your gated communities with their community rules and enforcement committees to make sure the grass is cut exactly 2 cm high, etc, etc, etc. Ya'll feel more at home like that, huh? lol

Most of the West is suffocating, yes. I chose Pattaya much because of it's utterly out of whack anything goes atmosphere. I'm sure there are ultra-conservative Thais (somehow the Thai-Chinese pop to mind), but the very nature of Pattaya repels them. Or so I hope. They seem to crawl here through my monitor, maybe I should close TVF before they materialize

Was it you who wrote about the tolerance of Thais being the one feature they have that's actually very desirable ? Anyway I do agree. Being tolerated is as close to freedom one can get without moving to the mountains and becoming a hermit.

It wasn't me that wrote about Thais being tolerant, although they seen to be. But they are also non-confrontational (unless provoked) and will let a lot of things slide. To confront someone opens that person up to loss of face. Thai's are more likely to be indirect. So the restaurant owner 'tells' the OP (at least in his own mind) who then empowers himself with indigence (he's a 'gentleman') as he ponders giving the shirtless men a piece of mind. Just what the restaurant owner wants -- someone to express her thoughts though. She played him like a squeaky fiddle. Get results at no loss of face. Lol. And so, so subtle! That's so Thai.

Edited May 16, 2014 by connda

[NoshowJones]

I am in Pattaya just now and have already told three Farangs to put on a shirt and hide their fat ugly bodies and show some respect for the country they are visiting.

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[DrTuner]

I am in Pattaya just now and have already told three Farangs to put on a shirt and hide their fat ugly bodies and show some respect for the country they are visiting.

To counter that effect, I'm taking off my shirt right now. I urge all others in Pattaya reading this to do the same. Resistance!!

Edited May 16, 2014 by DrTuner

[NoshowJones]

Thais would need odds of about six to one.

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[connda]

I am in Pattaya just now and have already told three Farangs to put on a shirt and hide their fat ugly bodies and show some respect for the country they are visiting.

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Thank God!!! The Farang Morality Enforcement Unit has finally landed on Pattaya Beach.

Next up: Enforcing knee-length skirts and and one-piece bathing suits on men and women.

Down-the-road: Burkas for women and Pashtun-wear for men?

Pattaya? They have a beach there, huh? That could explain the shirtless men? Maybe?

[NoshowJones]

Live and let live. Is that what those ugly assh les displaying their fat ugly tattooed bodies are doing. They are just disgusting all and sundry.

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[DrTuner]

Well, enjoy Pattaya. Nice of you to have found a locale with tattooed, shirtless men. I would however like to point out, that there are also venues where you'll find tattooed, shirtless women. You might want to tell them to wear their shirts, too. Shameless, they are.

[connda]

Change of pace:

Should women be allow to wear bikinis if they have 'saddlebags', cellulite, and sagging boobs, or is it the duty of the moral elites to tell the women to 'cover it up'?

Isn't that like telling a 'fat farang' guy to put a shirt on? Just saying...

Edited May 16, 2014 by connda

[DrTuner]

Change of pace:

Should women be allow to wear bikinis if they have 'saddlebags', cellulite, and sagging boobs, or is it the duty of the moral elites to tell the women to 'cover it up'?

Isn't that like telling a 'fat farang' guy to put a shirt on? Just saying...

Your comment is about to make me change the side in this battle. Women I do look at, men not.

[NoshowJones]

It is just plain common sense not to display a shirtless body anywhere except on a beach or beside a swimming pool in any country.

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[Mitker]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Thais if you think they can't enforce their own rules or deal with offences themselves without a foreigner doing it for them.

I suggest you take you colonialist attitude and start packing

That is a strange reply.

He has some valid points.

He is asking his own kind where the line is in the sand, I don't consider it colonialism. I don't even know why you brought that up.

I actually feel the same as him actually, although i choose not to point it out, I prefer the Thais make up their own mind about a situation like that, and judge them as individuals rather than generalising, which if we were all honest we also generalise against Thais from time to time.... I see no difference, so I don't worry about it.

I personally always look at a country's social conventions and the 'dos and don'ts' before i visit a different country and culture... But that is just me, not everyone does it.

I never cross my gate without a shirt as i understand it is considered a bit vulgar yet not in a serious sense. More in a gossipy sort of way and more among the women.'

I like to be shirtless inside my air con house, and at worst would sit outside in the garden to have the odd ciggy back when I smoked, and sometimes a few Thais may walk past the house and stare at me... But I consider what I do on my property is my choice... But if the Thai family appear, I quickly go and grab a shirt.... Just out of respect.

I wouldn't personally go over and tell them to put a shirt on, but if I ended up being drawn into their company and a chat with them, I may think about dropping it discretely into the conversation if they knew about how 'some' of the Thais feel about being half naked in public places while at the same time stressing it is totally their own choice, but just sort of letting them know on the quiet, and then give a little smile.... I would be very surprised if it were met with abuse, they would probably thank you for sharing your local knowledge... I know I would.

I am totally with you.

A couple of years ago, I saw 2 Western backpackers waiting at the train station resting their feet (+ shoes) on the seats facing them. They were surrounded by around 20 local travelers including a few Monks sitting just a few meter from them.

I simply had to go straight to them and politely inform them of the rudeness of such an attitude in Thai culture. I didn't feel like a policeman, fighter, arrogant colonialist or whatever. Just felt like something had to be done about it.

I could see they were exhausted and hadn't realized at all the offense. I could also see that the locals didn't feel like going to tourists to show their discontent. They immediately adopted a correct attitude understanding the situation.

I just feel that we, in our position of foreigners with some insight into the local culture, can make a difference in such circumstances to fill the obvious cultural gap that leads only to a bad mutual perception with no intend to create it.

To call this colonialism is just stupid

[DrTuner]

It is just plain common sense not to display a shirtless body anywhere except on a beach or beside a swimming pool in any country.

Greetings from Helsinki, Finland:

Noup, the circled one is not me. Could've been, but I didn't live there at the time.

EDIT: Credit for the photo belongs to Spencer Tunick

Edited May 16, 2014 by DrTuner

[Thaiberius]

The funny thing for me is all of the posters here that clearly know nothing about Thai culture or the people.

Thais will unlikely tell someone that they are doing something wrong. They will just judge and criticize in Thai to all those that can here. In all of my years here, I have rarely ever heard a Thai refuse service or comment on when tourists do things that are innapropriate.

That being said, I typically ignore when tourists or even long stay foreigners say or do things that are not appropriate. However, going topless in public in a resturaunt is something that I would address. When people say mind or your own business. Well, in fact it is my business. If I am in there eating as well, it is my right to inform others when they are being blatantly rude.

Same goes if people are being too affectionate, swearing, talking about sex loudly.

I am always with my daughter and I don't want her looking at people without their clothes on. I would try to be as polite and unthreatening as I could.

Just becuase someone is here on their holiday doesn't give them the right not to respect others around them.

Seems like many leave their manners and common sense at the airport.

As soon as somebody starts taking the moral high ground regarding Thai culture I switch off. It's like saying every American, Brit or Aussie thinks alike. One thing is for certain, like 99.9% of farangs, the poster knows very little about Thai culture confirmed by the very fact they have made a nonsensical statement.

[connda]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Thais if you think they can't enforce their own rules or deal with offences themselves without a foreigner doing it for them.

I suggest you take you colonialist attitude and start packing

That is a strange reply.

He has some valid points.

He is asking his own kind where the line is in the sand, I don't consider it colonialism. I don't even know why you brought that up.

I actually feel the same as him actually, although i choose not to point it out, I prefer the Thais make up their own mind about a situation like that, and judge them as individuals rather than generalising, which if we were all honest we also generalise against Thais from time to time.... I see no difference, so I don't worry about it.

I personally always look at a country's social conventions and the 'dos and don'ts' before i visit a different country and culture... But that is just me, not everyone does it.

I never cross my gate without a shirt as i understand it is considered a bit vulgar yet not in a serious sense. More in a gossipy sort of way and more among the women.'

I like to be shirtless inside my air con house, and at worst would sit outside in the garden to have the odd ciggy back when I smoked, and sometimes a few Thais may walk past the house and stare at me... But I consider what I do on my property is my choice... But if the Thai family appear, I quickly go and grab a shirt.... Just out of respect.

I wouldn't personally go over and tell them to put a shirt on, but if I ended up being drawn into their company and a chat with them, I may think about dropping it discretely into the conversation if they knew about how 'some' of the Thais feel about being half naked in public places while at the same time stressing it is totally their own choice, but just sort of letting them know on the quiet, and then give a little smile.... I would be very surprised if it were met with abuse, they would probably thank you for sharing your local knowledge... I know I would.

I am totally with you.

A couple of years ago, I saw 2 Western backpackers waiting at the train station resting their feet (+ shoes) on the seats facing them. They were surrounded by around 20 local travelers including a few Monks sitting just a few meter from them.

I simply had to go straight to them and politely inform them of the rudeness of such an attitude in Thai culture. I didn't feel like a policeman, fighter, arrogant colonialist or whatever. Just felt like something had to be done about it.

I could see they were exhausted and hadn't realized at all the offense. I could also see that the locals didn't feel like going to tourists to show their discontent. They immediately adopted a correct attitude understanding the situation.

I just feel that we, in our position of foreigners with some insight into the local culture, can make a difference in such circumstances to fill the obvious cultural gap that leads only to a bad mutual perception with no intend to create it.

To call this colonialism is just stupid

I take the third class train between Chiang Mai and Lamphun province, and when I'm on the train, you're more likely than not to see Thais using the opposite seat as a foot stool. And the little Thai woman that always sits next to me is usually the first to pop her feet up on the bench.

What you do at the Wat is a whole lot different than what you do on the train.

I hear you dude, but my eye's and experience tell me different. Your comment, if made to a group of farang in a temple with their feet pointing toward a statue of Buddha would have been appropriate; on a train??? You probably got confused looks and compliance until they figure it out on their own.

Now really look deep into yourself. Why did you do that? Feet resting on the opposite side of an unused train bench is a non-issue even by Thai standard, but you made it an issue. What inside you moved you to do that?

Edited May 16, 2014 by connda

[marko kok prong]

Maybe people should just get over this you must wear a shirt thing. It is a hot tropical climate and not wearing a shirt is hardly an outrageous thug to do.

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You sir are a a prime example of what Atf,and the op has talked about,no respect for the local culture and zero respect for yourself,so it's hot,what next would you walk around in a thong,i suppose you live in Pattaya or Phuket,if you even live here at all,try coming to the real Thailand up country and see how you will be veiwed,i have not come across you before but you seem the typical 'up yours ' to where i live poster,in short sir your views show how really ignorant you are.

[NoshowJones]

I suppose you are one of the fat tattooed brigade.

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[ATF]

You must be the moron that wai's all the spirit houses and wears 10 tons of amulets around his neck.

You are so smart you brought your wife to Thailand. The OP didn't ask a moronic question. If the OP had mentioned Pattaya or Phuket I would laugh, but this behavior is not acceptable outside those areas. As other posters have said Thai's just think you are trailer trash walking around without a shirt on or even a sleeveless vest. Craig??? You must be an Aussie so I understand.

I don't understand this drivel.

Is this contributor saying that there is issues with people who bring their wife's to Thailand?

If so, why?

My wife and i have lived here for five years now. We came for the culture and climate, not to mention escaping the rat race of modern western life, and are immensely happy with the decision to move to Thailand, and believe it was a smart move.

I am not here to chase bar girls and cheap booze.... And nor do i look down on those that have come here for that.... To each his own

Per my earlier post, i agree that public nakedness, or part nakedness, is inappropriate in this country, away from a beach, and especially in a restaurant, so I agree with the OPs opinion.

And neither do i understand your attack on Australians.... Whats the story there? Beaten by one at the bar or gambling houses or muay thai or something, were you?

And yes.... My wife and i are Australian.

G'day, bringing a Sheila here mate is like taking sand to Saudi. You're not telling me you haven't sampled the local Sheilas in five years? Your Aussie mate was calling the OP a moron, that's probably a term of endearment down-under but not here. Refer to post #110 a Volunteer Policeman says you cobbers are the main shirtless offenders. Sorry you can't understand English.

[marko kok prong]

You must be the moron that wai's all the spirit houses and wears 10 tons of amulets around his neck.

You are so smart you brought your wife to Thailand. The OP didn't ask a moronic question. If the OP had mentioned Pattaya or Phuket I would laugh, but this behavior is not acceptable outside those areas. As other posters have said Thai's just think you are trailer trash walking around without a shirt on or even a sleeveless vest. Craig??? You must be an Aussie so I understand.

Agree 100% atf,by the way ,good to see you back,i was thinking you got a slap on the wrist as i did after are last 3 way with hardended soul,but lets not drift off topic,the op is correct in his post,ye gods,only trailer trash would walk in to a resturant shirtless.or Russians,but i guess that's the same thing.

[connda]

Everyone who is claiming moral superiority in the name of a culture that isn't even their own is trending out on the thin ice of the absurdly ignorant.

Edited May 16, 2014 by connda

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

An English family came in. Father, mother, teenage son and younger daughter. They appeared a bit full of themselves from the off, then they made their presence felt. "Where's the football then?" said dad in a loud voice.

The father continued to insist that "the football" should be switched to and he wouldn't give up. His son chipped in as well. On and on they grumbled, impervious to the situation. They were generally rude and aggressive, mother included.

Sounds like the characteristics of a typical northern monkey family.

[anotheruser]

Maybe people should just get over this you must wear a shirt thing. It is a hot tropical climate and not wearing a shirt is hardly an outrageous thug to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You sir are a a prime example of what Atf,and the op has talked about,no respect for the local culture and zero respect for yourself,so it's hot,what next would you walk around in a thong,i suppose you live in Pattaya or Phuket,if you even live here at all,try coming to the real Thailand up country and see how you will be veiwed,i have not come across you before but you seem the typical 'up yours ' to where i live poster,in short sir your views show how really ignorant you are.

Thankfully we live in a world where I am free to be utterly indifferent to your contempt. You Sir, are a prime example of why i said maybe people should lighten up a bit Mr. hard ass.

[Skint]

I live in Chaing Mai and pretty much mind my own business. Chiang Mai is Buddhist country and even during Songkran at 40 degrees you don't see a Thai man without a shirt on. 95% of the men wear long pants all the time. Today in the restaurant I frequent, two twenty something westerners came in to eat wearing bathing suits, no shirts. Even I thought it was pretty darn rude. These guys were totally unaware they were doing anything wrong. I bit my tongue. And kept thinking - mind your own business, you're not a farang cop. But I didn't like it. Same when I go to the Sunday market. There are no smoking signs around and a posted 2000baht fine, and you would never see Thai smoking a cigarette. But there they are - the dumb farangs smoking and drinking beer. I have even seen some smoking and drinking without shirts on. It's so hard not to say anything, because I live here and I think if the Thai's see these farangs as pigs, then it becomes easier to lump us all as pigs. Should I say something or just leave it alone?

It's not appropiate for you as a farang to open your rip on a tourist, leave it for the Thais, there is nothing worse than some farang telling you what to do in Thailand, if it were me I'd tell you to fark off

[marko kok prong]

Maybe people should just get over this you must wear a shirt thing. It is a hot tropical climate and not wearing a shirt is hardly an outrageous thug to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You sir are a a prime example of what Atf,and the op has talked about,no respect for the local culture and zero respect for yourself,so it's hot,what next would you walk around in a thong,i suppose you live in Pattaya or Phuket,if you even live here at all,try coming to the real Thailand up country and see how you will be veiwed,i have not come across you before but you seem the typical 'up yours ' to where i live poster,in short sir your views show how really ignorant you are.

Thankfully we live in a world where I am free to be utterly indifferent to your contempt. You Sir, are a prime example of why i said maybe people should lighten up a bit Mr. hard ass.

Utterly indifferent,yes ,to the place you call home,or maybe you don't,what pray tell is so hard about respecting the country you are a guest in,or is that to much of a challenge for some one who clearly does not give a rats arse about the people of the country he lives in,you are the worst example of expat/tourist,and exactly the kind of low life the op was talking about,and if you were so indifferent to my post why ,sir did you reply.

[ATF]

You must be the moron that wai's all the spirit houses and wears 10 tons of amulets around his neck.

You are so smart you brought your wife to Thailand. The OP didn't ask a moronic question. If the OP had mentioned Pattaya or Phuket I would laugh, but this behavior is not acceptable outside those areas. As other posters have said Thai's just think you are trailer trash walking around without a shirt on or even a sleeveless vest. Craig??? You must be an Aussie so I understand.

Agree 100% atf,by the way ,good to see you back,i was thinking you got a slap on the wrist as i did after are last 3 way with hardended soul,but lets not drift off topic,the op is correct in his post,ye gods,only trailer trash would walk in to a resturant shirtless.or Russians,but i guess that's the same thing.

Just put HS on your ignore list. Ex-Pats that have been here sometime are acclimatized to the heat. I don't have a problem with shorts if they are nice, not the 90 baht jobs at Tesco. Most of these clowns don't even use deodorant and aftershave let alone shirts. They stink! And they wonder why the Police and Immigration treat them like dog doo. The only class they have is low class. Mr. Owl I am not a moralist or have any intentions of inspecting the length of your grass, but what possible reason could I have for enjoying the company of semi-dressed males in a nice restaurant unless it was a beach bar? This freedom you are talking about is a two way street.