Thai Immigration is determined to prevent abuse of visa exceptions

[Tomtomtom69]

If Thai immigration wants to find people in Thailand without valid Visas and Work Permits... and if they will pay my way back to Koh Samui and Ao Nang, Krabi (from where I just returned) - I will walk with them down the streets and point out several thousands of such criminals in both of those resort areas. Let's see who will they find with no valid papers? Well - they will find lots and lots of guys from Myanmar (who often say they are from Nepal - as is that makes any difference), plus quite a number from India and even some Mid East Countries. And the Thai immigration folks will also find many Europeans, Americans and Aussies working the travel shops. Hmmmm? How did all these people get Work Permits and the supporting Visas which allow the WP's? Oh - you mean they likely do not have either - HOW SHOCKING!!! Why are these people there? Well it seems the common denominator is that to a great or lesser degree they can speak English to the tourists. What would happen if all these folks were removed or prevented from entering? Big Economic problems for the resorts that is what would happen --- and that is why it will not happen either. If the great majority of these people I just observed in Koh Samui and Ao Nang are here in Thailand legally and working legally - then someone please correct me -- I will stand corrected if believable information is presented.

Being from Myanmar is better than from Nepal, because Myanmar workers in Thailand can more easily be hired to work in industries where there is a labour shortage - Nepalese obviously can't be and are treated like any other foreigner and thus require a non-B visa and work permit.

That's right - I was surprised by the number of "Italian" restaurants in Ao Nang, Krabi on a recent trip, but not a single Italian in sight! The vast majority of these so-called Italian restaurants had Indian or Indian-looking servers, managers etc. standing outside hassling people to come inside, very few even had any Thai servers and an Italian restaurant that doesn't have at least an Italian manager obviously can't be called authentic, not to mention that I've never seen an Italian restaurant anywhere that hustles outside and tries to entice customers inside! I mean what's going on, are the Italians running the Indian restaurants now? Obviously not.

In a country with few visible minorities like Thailand and the strict workplace rules imposed, something can't be right if you go inside a restaurant and find there are no Thai looking people working inside. Thailand's Indian community is small, mostly centered around Bangkok and they work as tailors, or even high up in business - they aren't suddenly all down in Ao Nang running of all things, Italian restaurants! Clearly then, these people, who I overheard speaking some Indian dialect can't be Thai.

Anyone for a Palak Paneer pizza?

[Concerned expat]

As Russian, I can confirm, a lot of illegal workers here. We, who are really expats, hate our own nationality illegals - they work for rice, not have any responsibility and so on. They ruined quality of services offered to tourists.

But... When I was tourist, I come here then visit countries nearby, sometimes returned to Thailand 2-3 times in 1 month. Do all of this easy, because of visa exempt in Lao, Malaysia, Hong Kong.

I also know, a lot of people just fill gaps between legal jobs with border run.

So, this is a problem for a good people too.

IMO answer is simple. Every border runner - -1000 thb. Every visa holder - +1000 thb. Until you have money, you will never had problems like this.

Seen it myself too many times in Thailand and also in Bali. May be a reasonable size bank account in Thailand would be harder to falsify for extending Thai Visitor Visa. Working in Thailand is not worth wasting the time for many, but for a youngster from poor area even "work for rice" looks OK.

[LivinLOS]

as the other thread was closed, I'd like to continue the convo on non-B visa/BOI... So, from what I understood, you pay them some money (I'm guessing some larger investment + a monthly fee for accounting), you get a non-B + your own work permit and that it might be an option for freelancers, is that right? Now, the problem is that as a freelancer, you don't always have a steady income, so that might be a problem? Or it's no big deal unless you can pay the fee? Hope it's not too OT

BOI is very expensive, much more than most online digital nomads will pay..

I suspect people are confusing information I listed, which is that there is a BOI registered company (so isnt limited to how many Thai employees for work permit extensions) that will employ digital nomads and make them legal. They then pay all your taxes social security etc.

You work for them, not alone. Doing what you wish.

[Briggsy]

How to prove a negative.

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

Imm. Off. : "You have 7 double-entry tourist visas in 4 years."

Foreigner : "Yes."

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

Imm. Off. : "How do you make a salary?"

Foreigner : "I am independently wealthy."

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

and round and round.

[LivinLOS]

How to prove a negative.

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

Imm. Off. : "You have 7 double-entry tourist visas in 4 years."

Foreigner : "Yes."

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

Imm. Off. : "How do you make a salary?"

Foreigner : "I am independently wealthy."

Imm. Off. : "You are working in Thailand."

Foreigner : "No I am not."

and round and round.

Please show bank account with remittances into Thailand marked.

Anyone living here on money not earned here will be able to show large lumps coming in fairly regularly.

Seems so simple to solve..

Edited May 17, 2014 by LivinLOS

[Soutpeel]

Hi everyone,

Reading this thread has made me a little concerned. Here's my scenario:

I was working in singapore on an EP up until last Friday. I have changed company and they have transferred over my singapore EP to my new company. This company is a Malaysian bank and they are going to seconder me to the thai office for 1 year with a 1 July start date. I was in Thailand for 1 day about 2 weeks ago and took down an apartment and the lease will commence 19th may. I am leaving singapore on 19th of may to move into my place with my wife and son (she is thai). I am flying back to singapore on 22nd may for a meeting then back to Thailand on the 23rd. I'm a bit worried as although I won't be working in Thailand until 1 July I will be going back and forth trying to get everything settled.

Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Simply make sure or demand the Thai office helps you to arrange the proper visa and the work permit for you.

Continually insist that they take care of those matters and do not budge on your position.

They will try to tell you: "Never Mind , Do not worry"..... and if an when you do have a problem I can assure you the Thais will make like they are innocent and put the blame on you.

The {onus} is on the Thai Company and the Thai management of that company to help you arrange the proper working visa ( Non immigrant "B" ) that allows you to apply for the work permit.

Do not ever allow them to tell you it is your responsibility when it is their responsibility to accommodate you and facilitate you with the necessary Corporate documents that allows you to obtain a "B" visa for the purpose of employment with that company.

It is a matter of gathering up all the required documents ( a lot of documents ) while they apply for a Non Immigrant "B" Visa on your behalf.

The problem usually lies with the Thai company workers or lets say the legal department of the company finding the time and making the effort to gather up all the documents and obtain the signatures or corporate stamps needed relative to the demands of the Immigration department so you can receive the proper Visa.

For most companies it is a big headache and everyone involved is very reluctant to comply with all the details and paper work and the effort involved...so commonly they just let you work without the proper Visa and or the work permit while telling you," Do not worry and nothing will happen"...and remember...do not worry..nah

The best way is to use a Visa agent who will receive the Thai Company documents, all in good order, with all the signatures needed and they will apply for your Non immigrant "B" visa.

In theory you are supposed to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and submit all the company related documents to the Thai Embassy while you apply for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" Visa that will allow you to come back into Thailand on that 90 day Non immigrant "B" Visa.

While you are on that 90 day visa you would then apply for a 1 year Non immigrant "B" visa, inside Thailand ( at Changwatana Immigration Center) requiring all the same documents as before ( and maybe a few more documents ) to receive the 1 year Non Immigrant "B" visa.

When you receive that 1 year "B" visa then you can apply for the work permit at the labor department and be subjected to their kind of bureaucracy also.

Often enough many people do this all by themselves but because it is such an effort and big hassle it is best to use a visa agent and MAKE the Thai Company pay for everything involved...even if it means leaving the country and going to any Thai Embassy to apply for the 90 non immigrant "B" visa and then come back to Thailand on that Visa.

Usually ..for a price..... the Visa agent will arrange everything ( inside ) Thailand and no need to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and chance being turned down...because of some minor or possibly major discrepancy in the paper work involved

You would not be the first to be turned down because some one did not include all the proper documentation or signatures while you believed everything is in order and off you go to say Singapore or Kuala Lumpur and show up at the Thai Embassy to learn some aspect of your documentation is not correct and they reject your application for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" visa

Meantime you can sill stay in Thailand on the tourist visa while the company arranges the proper ( Non Immigrant "B" ) visa for working purposes.

I suggest you give them a document that says you will not work in the office until all your visa arrangements and the work permit is taken care of by the Thai management.

If not, just stay at home and collect your wages but do not come to work and force your position upon the Thai management.

You would probably never get into any trouble if you did work without a proper visa and or the work permit.....but it is up to you and or how comfortable or uncomfortable you feel concerning working without the proper Visa or work permit.

All in all, they do not make it easy or streamlined to obtain a Non Immigrant "B" visa and or the work permit.

Does someone want to correct all the mis-information in this post, I cant be bothered...

Suffice to say there are numerous statements, terminology and procedure which are incorrect..

[gemguy]

Hi everyone,

Reading this thread has made me a little concerned. Here's my scenario:

I was working in singapore on an EP up until last Friday. I have changed company and they have transferred over my singapore EP to my new company. This company is a Malaysian bank and they are going to seconder me to the thai office for 1 year with a 1 July start date. I was in Thailand for 1 day about 2 weeks ago and took down an apartment and the lease will commence 19th may. I am leaving singapore on 19th of may to move into my place with my wife and son (she is thai). I am flying back to singapore on 22nd may for a meeting then back to Thailand on the 23rd. I'm a bit worried as although I won't be working in Thailand until 1 July I will be going back and forth trying to get everything settled.

Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Simply make sure or demand the Thai office helps you to arrange the proper visa and the work permit for you.

Continually insist that they take care of those matters and do not budge on your position.

They will try to tell you: "Never Mind , Do not worry"..... and if an when you do have a problem I can assure you the Thais will make like they are innocent and put the blame on you.

The {onus} is on the Thai Company and the Thai management of that company to help you arrange the proper working visa ( Non immigrant "B" ) that allows you to apply for the work permit.

Do not ever allow them to tell you it is your responsibility when it is their responsibility to accommodate you and facilitate you with the necessary Corporate documents that allows you to obtain a "B" visa for the purpose of employment with that company.

It is a matter of gathering up all the required documents ( a lot of documents ) while they apply for a Non Immigrant "B" Visa on your behalf.

The problem usually lies with the Thai company workers or lets say the legal department of the company finding the time and making the effort to gather up all the documents and obtain the signatures or corporate stamps needed relative to the demands of the Immigration department so you can receive the proper Visa.

For most companies it is a big headache and everyone involved is very reluctant to comply with all the details and paper work and the effort involved...so commonly they just let you work without the proper Visa and or the work permit while telling you," Do not worry and nothing will happen"...and remember...do not worry..nah

The best way is to use a Visa agent who will receive the Thai Company documents, all in good order, with all the signatures needed and they will apply for your Non immigrant "B" visa.

In theory you are supposed to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and submit all the company related documents to the Thai Embassy while you apply for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" Visa that will allow you to come back into Thailand on that 90 day Non immigrant "B" Visa.

While you are on that 90 day visa you would then apply for a 1 year Non immigrant "B" visa, inside Thailand ( at Changwatana Immigration Center) requiring all the same documents as before ( and maybe a few more documents ) to receive the 1 year Non Immigrant "B" visa.

When you receive that 1 year "B" visa then you can apply for the work permit at the labor department and be subjected to their kind of bureaucracy also.

Often enough many people do this all by themselves but because it is such an effort and big hassle it is best to use a visa agent and MAKE the Thai Company pay for everything involved...even if it means leaving the country and going to any Thai Embassy to apply for the 90 non immigrant "B" visa and then come back to Thailand on that Visa.

Usually ..for a price..... the Visa agent will arrange everything ( inside ) Thailand and no need to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and chance being turned down...because of some minor or possibly major discrepancy in the paper work involved

You would not be the first to be turned down because some one did not include all the proper documentation or signatures while you believed everything is in order and off you go to say Singapore or Kuala Lumpur and show up at the Thai Embassy to learn some aspect of your documentation is not correct and they reject your application for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" visa

Meantime you can sill stay in Thailand on the tourist visa while the company arranges the proper ( Non Immigrant "B" ) visa for working purposes.

I suggest you give them a document that says you will not work in the office until all your visa arrangements and the work permit is taken care of by the Thai management.

If not, just stay at home and collect your wages but do not come to work and force your position upon the Thai management.

You would probably never get into any trouble if you did work without a proper visa and or the work permit.....but it is up to you and or how comfortable or uncomfortable you feel concerning working without the proper Visa or work permit.

All in all, they do not make it easy or streamlined to obtain a Non Immigrant "B" visa and or the work permit.

Does someone want to correct all the mis-information in this post, I cant be bothered...

Suffice to say there are numerous statements, terminology and procedure which are incorrect..

Would you be so kind as to correct us where we are wrong.

I have been living here in Thailand for 27 years and I have been through it all concerning Thai immigration authorities rulings and changes in immigration status.

Please enlighten us with all your inside information concerning how exactly one goes about obtaining a Non Immigrant "B" visa for the purpose of working in Thailand...seeing as you so arrogantly imply you know everything.

That and I work with visa agents that can obtain "anything you want"...... for a price....... if you want to use their services .

That being the case I am well versed with the immigration laws and the ways and means of obtaining a non immigrant "B" visa ( or any kind of visa you want )

Edited May 17, 2014 by gemguy

[balo]

If you own a condo in Pattaya you should try to sell it asap. With all the russians and other foreigners with tourist visas staying long term in Thailand, there will be no buyers left when the new restrictions start. I have a condo for sale , it is hard enough to sell now,it will be a nightmare to sell later.

Sent from my SM-P601 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[brewsterbudgen]

I've been in Thailand since Sept 2012 with my common law spouse, she is a Lao National.We are both using Tourist visas and did some in/out runs. I currently have a Permanent resident application for Canada in progress in Singapore under the Common law family class sponsorship for my spouse. I am a Canadian citizen by birth. We have an interview letter from CIC but it may be another 20 months. We did not marry in Laos due the lengthy, expensive and difficult procedure. We prefer to marry in Canada. We do not work in Thailand but only wait for our interview from CIC. My spouse is now 3 months pregnant and we would like her to give birth at a private hospital in Thailand. So now if we return to Laos we both risk imprisonment and hefty fines and I may get deported should we return. It's a possibility! We are financially able to cover all our costs here in Thailand. Getting her a Education Visa is not guaranteed by MOE or the English school and we may lose the entire fee if we apply and are denied.

We are both very concerned about this Immigration crackdown as are many others. We wanted to share our story so please be kind with any responses you may have. It's difficult enough as it stands.

I'm sympathetic. My Lao girlfriend of nearly 5 years has been able to live in Thailand on monthly in/out border runs. I have an extension of stay for work, but she doesn't work. There are hundreds of Lao citizens living and working in Thailand on in/out border runs. If they're going to clamp down on the illegally working Laos, how will they differentiate between them and those Lao citizens who are partners/spouses of legal aliens/tourists?

[KonaRain]

Star Visa service..Chaing Mai, see who they can recommend if elsewhere..if offshore no problem..

I just remembered the name Tuna^..I know his sister..good enough English.. Alohz

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LivinLOS]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Quote

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

My experience is that a lot of the offshore O & G guys spend big between shifts and support (in your experience) "most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar".

Does that make them part of the conspiracy?

I don't understand why people are banging on about oil and gas workers. They aren't doing back to back exits and returns on the same day are they? They leave for up to a month. Come back for a similar period, just about always less that 30 days.

Or is it the people who are worried about oil and gas guys just can't count??

Because no one has said how many days in between marks you as only a tourist and not a resident.. Especially as most of these guy rent a permanent home and dont have the travel itinerary and hotels which is being used as an example of an OK.

If you think one night out makes this all clear because its not back to back your dreaming.. So what is it ?? One night, one week, one month.. No one knows.

[BWPattaya]

Do many people come to Thailand to find jobs? or are they equally concerned with people that live here and work remotely for a company in a different country?

I think the problem that triggered this was foreigners openly working in the tourist industry without the correct paperwork, such as tour agencies, dive shops, restaurants, real estate, etc. Locals got fed up.

The plethora of Russian staffed tour booths on Pattaya 2nd road always amazed me. I thought such jobs were protected and the Russians were clearly flouting the law openly. Next time I walk along there I'll see if they are still there.

Edited May 17, 2014 by BWPattaya

[Pattaya46]

Anyone living here on money not earned here will be able to show large lumps coming in fairly regularly.

Seems so simple to solve..

That may be simple, but it's completely false !

Many people - like myself - have transfer big amounts of money in Thailand a few years ago when the Baht was extremely low. Result is that I don't need now to make wires regularly to live here.

[LivinLOS]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

[LivinLOS]

They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

-----------------

Why can they not get a tourist visa?

Years ago, I worked on a oil survey ship offshore from Singapore.

I did a 6 week on ship, and 3 week off work cycle.

The company I worked for (Singaporean) staged us on and off shift through Singapore.

We were usually flown by helicopter from the ship to Singapore, where we were paid off for that work period.

It was easy enough to get a hotel in Singapore, and then apply at the Thai consulate in Singapore.

At the max two days in Singapore at a (relatively) cheap hotel.

(There was then a hotel with a lot of Thai "professional" girls that sat around in the hotel restaurant for 'entertainment" purposes.)

I would then come to Thailand on that tourist visa.

Why can't they do that today? (Even if the "professionals" are no longer there).

I made enough then in my 6 week stints working on that survey ship (free food and shared two man quarters on board) to pay for my 3 week binges in Thailand.

Because

1) the company fly them point to point.. so work to bangkok and back.. not a 3rd country..

2) they often are on 28 / 28.. Then add in a full day travelling, sometimes as much as 2.. So now from the precious 24 or so days you expect them to go to a 3rd country, sit and wait for 2 or 3 days, with all the correct paperwork, to beg for another tourist visa that they may or may not get due to 'too many' and then get home 3 or 4 days later ??

Another friend of mine is in and out near weekly.. He lives in bangkok 15 mins for the airport to cut down on his travel times its that often. Sometimes he comes here for 48 hours.

Simply unworkable..

[LivinLOS]

Anyone living here on money not earned here will be able to show large lumps coming in fairly regularly.

Seems so simple to solve..

That may be simple, but it's completely false !

Many people - like myself - have transfer big amounts of money in Thailand a few years ago when the Baht was extremely low. Result is that I don't need now to make wires regularly to live here.

Then you can show the fat bank account being drained with cost of living..

Same thing..

But it has to be the gradual reduction and spending.. A fat bank account static doesnt show your using it.

[Soutpeel]

Hi everyone,

Reading this thread has made me a little concerned. Here's my scenario:

I was working in singapore on an EP up until last Friday. I have changed company and they have transferred over my singapore EP to my new company. This company is a Malaysian bank and they are going to seconder me to the thai office for 1 year with a 1 July start date. I was in Thailand for 1 day about 2 weeks ago and took down an apartment and the lease will commence 19th may. I am leaving singapore on 19th of may to move into my place with my wife and son (she is thai). I am flying back to singapore on 22nd may for a meeting then back to Thailand on the 23rd. I'm a bit worried as although I won't be working in Thailand until 1 July I will be going back and forth trying to get everything settled.

Any thoughts?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Simply make sure or demand the Thai office helps you to arrange the proper visa and the work permit for you.

Continually insist that they take care of those matters and do not budge on your position.

They will try to tell you: "Never Mind , Do not worry"..... and if an when you do have a problem I can assure you the Thais will make like they are innocent and put the blame on you.

The {onus} is on the Thai Company and the Thai management of that company to help you arrange the proper working visa ( Non immigrant "B" ) that allows you to apply for the work permit.

Do not ever allow them to tell you it is your responsibility when it is their responsibility to accommodate you and facilitate you with the necessary Corporate documents that allows you to obtain a "B" visa for the purpose of employment with that company.

It is a matter of gathering up all the required documents ( a lot of documents ) while they apply for a Non Immigrant "B" Visa on your behalf.

The problem usually lies with the Thai company workers or lets say the legal department of the company finding the time and making the effort to gather up all the documents and obtain the signatures or corporate stamps needed relative to the demands of the Immigration department so you can receive the proper Visa.

For most companies it is a big headache and everyone involved is very reluctant to comply with all the details and paper work and the effort involved...so commonly they just let you work without the proper Visa and or the work permit while telling you," Do not worry and nothing will happen"...and remember...do not worry..nah

The best way is to use a Visa agent who will receive the Thai Company documents, all in good order, with all the signatures needed and they will apply for your Non immigrant "B" visa.

In theory you are supposed to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and submit all the company related documents to the Thai Embassy while you apply for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" Visa that will allow you to come back into Thailand on that 90 day Non immigrant "B" Visa.

While you are on that 90 day visa you would then apply for a 1 year Non immigrant "B" visa, inside Thailand ( at Changwatana Immigration Center) requiring all the same documents as before ( and maybe a few more documents ) to receive the 1 year Non Immigrant "B" visa.

When you receive that 1 year "B" visa then you can apply for the work permit at the labor department and be subjected to their kind of bureaucracy also.

Often enough many people do this all by themselves but because it is such an effort and big hassle it is best to use a visa agent and MAKE the Thai Company pay for everything involved...even if it means leaving the country and going to any Thai Embassy to apply for the 90 non immigrant "B" visa and then come back to Thailand on that Visa.

Usually ..for a price..... the Visa agent will arrange everything ( inside ) Thailand and no need to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and chance being turned down...because of some minor or possibly major discrepancy in the paper work involved

You would not be the first to be turned down because some one did not include all the proper documentation or signatures while you believed everything is in order and off you go to say Singapore or Kuala Lumpur and show up at the Thai Embassy to learn some aspect of your documentation is not correct and they reject your application for a 90 day Non Immigrant "B" visa

Meantime you can sill stay in Thailand on the tourist visa while the company arranges the proper ( Non Immigrant "B" ) visa for working purposes.

I suggest you give them a document that says you will not work in the office until all your visa arrangements and the work permit is taken care of by the Thai management.

If not, just stay at home and collect your wages but do not come to work and force your position upon the Thai management.

You would probably never get into any trouble if you did work without a proper visa and or the work permit.....but it is up to you and or how comfortable or uncomfortable you feel concerning working without the proper Visa or work permit.

All in all, they do not make it easy or streamlined to obtain a Non Immigrant "B" visa and or the work permit.

Does someone want to correct all the mis-information in this post, I cant be bothered...

Suffice to say there are numerous statements, terminology and procedure which are incorrect..

Would you be so kind as to correct us where we are wrong.

I have been living here in Thailand for 27 years and I have been through it all concerning Thai immigration authorities rulings and changes in immigration status.

Please enlighten us with all your inside information concerning how exactly one goes about obtaining a Non Immigrant "B" visa for the purpose of working in Thailand...seeing as you so arrogantly imply you know everything.

That and I work with visa agents that can obtain "anything you want"...... for a price....... if you want to use their services .

That being the case I am well versed with the immigration laws and the ways and means of obtaining a non immigrant "B" visa ( or any kind of visa you want )

ah the old chestnut...I have been in Thailand XX number of years, don't question me...

Just a few then to humour you:

the proper working visa ( Non immigrant "B" ) - Non-imm B is not a work visa, further Work permits can be issued on other classes of Non-imm visa's such a some "O" visa's

While you are on that 90 day visa you would then apply for a 1 year Non immigrant "B" visa, inside Thailand - you don't apply for visa's in country, visa's are issued by embassies/consulates, one presumes you mean extension of stay for the basis of work, this is not a visa

When you receive that 1 year "B" visa then you can apply for the work permit at the labor department - Nope you can apply for a WP even on tourist visa or visa waiver, you cant be issued the WP until you have the required B or O, further, at most embassies/consulates they want to see the WP has been applied for, before they issue any Non-imm B visa.

the Visa agent will arrange everything ( inside ) Thailand and no need to leave the country and go to a Thai Embassy and chance being turned down...because of some minor or possibly major discrepancy in the paper work involved... No idea what your talking about ???

There we go...

[ParadiseLost]

After reading most of the posts in this topic, I feel the need to add my penny's worth...

Having lived here since 2005, mostly on non-o (married) I have experienced hostility at all borders I have travelled through, but I never take it personally, instead I arrive prepared (as an African passport holder I enjoy special attention! This means never standing in queus, but reporting directly to the office, where I am 'interrogated' - usually only until I show all supporting docs and, most importantly GBP1,000 travellers cheques I have carried for years.)

There are many posts from oil & gas workers - and other people who live in Thailand 'while not working' - there are two things I fail to see mentioned; firstly "what harm does this do" - well for one, property prices are certailnly driven up, out of the reach of locals... Secondly, are people working online aware that upon spending more than 180 days in Thailand (in a year) they become "Tax Resident", meaning their worldwide income is subject to Thai taxation...

The bottom line is the Thai immigration department has been way too lax for many years now - it took an invasion of Russians to wake them up to this; the problem most likely became more obvious as most other nation's tourists stayed away - a never-ending stream of in-outers must have flipped a light switch on. Either that, or the colonial nature of the Russian 'visitors'. It's a good time to empty out the closet...

Next, if they are really clever they will start to weed out overstayers; a good place to start is with the motorbike rental shops who hold passports - easy for them to tip off immigration for a small reward...

Please note I take no pleasure from anyone else's misfortune, but I find it hard to feel sympathy as these rules have been in place a long time, just hanging there like an executioner's blade. Ignored at your own peril; when you are bitten don't whine to everyone else - put it down to experience and make sure you know the rules before setting up your life in a foreign country again. Try the USA, EU or UK on an African passport - I have, and Thailand is a doddle even if you are not married or 50+, just do it legally. No legal route = you are a tourist, visit and go home. Come again next year.

[TPI]

So they have to look out in particular for Vietnamese (among others)? Are these the same Vietnamese who in 2015 when the AEC opens up, will have the right of abode and right to work in Thailand anyway?

Or does Thailand only see the opening of the AEC as the ability for its citizens to go and work in Singapore/Malaysia?

Dunno where you got the idea that the AEC is about free movement of peoples. It isn't.

In my experience that's the way it works now! You front up to the new ASEAN country they stamp your passport with a 3 month visa on arrival and if you find work they give you a 6 month visa extension! If that's not a virtual "free movement" then, pray tell, what is??

[Thai at Heart]

I'm all for the Thai Immigration enforcing whatever rules they have in place concerning their own entery/exit requirements. I just do not see the need to complain about it - it's their country for pete's sake!

I've only been to Thailand 2 times in the last 10 years (once for a week/once for a month) on 30 day exempt entries (both times in 2013). However, am a bit concerned coming back in December of this year (by air from PI where I am retired). I planned to come over and enter on a 30 day exempt, change to an O-Visa, followed by the 12 month extension based on retirement. What guarantee do I have that I will be allowed in in the first place? I've made my "one exempt entry by air" end of last year.

Only issue I have with this whole topic is that the rules in place are open to too much interpretation. Now maybe that is what they intended to happen I don't know. I think determining wether a person is a genuine tourist or not takes a little more than checking bank statements, hotel reservations, etc. By the way - what is wrong with renting a condo for your stay as a tourist? They're cheaper than many hotels for the same amount of time. I fail to see how that plays into their 'adjuticating' anyone's status as well.

Don't know. Its their rules. Stop complaining.

Duh.

Ahhh thanks for explaining it so succinctly. You've been a big help.

I'm all for the Thai Immigration enforcing whatever rules they have in place concerning their own entery/exit requirements. I just do not see the need to complain about it - it's their country for pete's sake!

Well you did rather walk into that one. At the end of the day, it appears as though there is an enormous amount of power being vested in the individual officer. You will probably not have a problem, but no guarantees.

So, its their country, I just don't see the need to complain about it.

I mean after all, it is only going to inconvenience hundreds if not thousands of people who aren't causing anyone any problems and most certainly aren't working.

I am sure if you have a problem, you will simply put it down to bad luck a shrug your shoulders and say "it's your country, I understand completely your arbitrary judgement that I am a shonky tourist", and get back on the plane and go home.

[samran]

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They have got this all wrong.

They are doing it to stop illegal workers but from my experience most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar.

A lot of guys work offshore and fly into Thailand spending big on their break between shifts. These people do not have the ability to get visas and they are true frequent holidaymakers.

Immigration says these people will not be affected but my gut feeling is they will.

My experience is that a lot of the offshore O & G guys spend big between shifts and support (in your experience) "most of the illegal workers are retired expats who are a bit short on pension funds and as such are helping their income with a small profit from a restaurant or bar".

Does that make them part of the conspiracy?

I don't understand why people are banging on about oil and gas workers. They aren't doing back to back exits and returns on the same day are they? They leave for up to a month. Come back for a similar period, just about always less that 30 days.

Or is it the people who are worried about oil and gas guys just can't count??

Because no one has said how many days in between marks you as only a tourist and not a resident.. Especially as most of these guy rent a permanent home and dont have the travel itinerary and hotels which is being used as an example of an OK.

If you think one night out makes this all clear because its not back to back your dreaming.. So what is it ?? One night, one week, one month.. No one knows.

The onus then if the question arises is to show you aren't intending to work or stay. Just like every time in have to go to England or the us.

Would have thought with a legitimate employment contract offshore it wouldn't be difficult to prove.

[Thai at Heart]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

Is apparently now not in existence.

[LivinLOS]

precisely..

[samran]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

Is apparently now not in existence.

Why should there be one? Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

[John1thru10]

You want facts , I'll give you facts .And this is mainly directed at the ones who posted that this is a great system without a hitch.

I'm 55 yrs.old .Never been to thailand in my life but had thought about retiring there. (Yes I am presently retired.)Anyway before making the leap I naturally wanted to see the country . So about four months ago I applied for a double entry visa from my home in the U.S. I received it and off I went. Now from what I understood is that I would enter, and before sixty days were up I would apply for a thirty day extension. Then before the extension ended ,a few days or so ,I would leave the country and reenter because I had a tourist visa. A dble entry tourist visa. That's,,, tourist , visa .

Well I received my extension with no problem.

Now to keep you up to speed I really liked thailand and decided that it would make a good retirement location and was planning to reenter on the dble entry and apply for the ''retirement'' visa.Get my affadavit from the consulate, proof of income, fill out the documents etc.

After three months I had seen enough and felt content.

On this past Tuesday a week before my extension ended I crossed the border to reenter.I had left all my luggage and personal belongings at my room I had been renting and only took the nec. documents along to present to the fine ,honest, intelligent, uncorrupt immigration officials.

(By the way not that it should make a difference, but I 've been staying in Chiang Mai.)

Now what do you think happened??? They refused to let me back in.

I was dressed well, clean shaven , very presentable and polite.My papers were in order . But regardless ,the interrogation began. And it was'nt pleasant .They accused me of working illegally and/or attempting to seek employment. They wanted to see my itinerary. Why I was in thailand to begin with, where I was staying, who did i know there, how much money I had.(I had about 6000 bht with me). ,etc.etc., This #$^% went on for an hour. They ultimately said ...no.Partly because I opted to rent a studio apartment rather than stay at a hotel ! Renting a studio apt. evidently removes one from''tourist'' status!!

Oh they wanted to see money, alot of money! And I got the feeling that a bribe was being suggested, more than once.

Now at that point I was livid. but I 've read enough to know you don't get angry. So I politely asked to speak to someone in charge. Which i finally did. And to tell you the truth I would have said fine and the hel with thailand, but all my belongings were at the room I was renting. The guy finally allowed me to enter ,this took oh about 5 hrs total.

Now I'm in this sewer of a country and will not be staying. I am completely disgusted with the place . I'm not a deadbeat . I am a retired police officer with a very nice pension. But this whole thing transpired because some idiot at immigration ''suspected'' I was working. did you get that..................... ''s u s p e c t e d''. Regardless of my tourist visa that I had been issued, by his Embassy.

And that is the entire problem, all they have to do is suspect someone .And a few intelligent posters get that here. Some jerk at immigration has a bug up his or her behind and that clown decides not to let you enter ,because they use the ''suspect'' card and accuse you to be working illegally or whatever reason..they ''feel''.at the time .It does'nt matter what visa you have. Way too much power to give to immigration ''officers'' with regards to enforcing a very vague rule.

The lunatic asylum has handed the keys over to the patients and it's going to be bad for everyone ,honest and dishonest forieghners alike.

Strange that, I've been in Thailand since 1990 and never had a problem.

I crossed the road once with my eyes closed and didn't get run over. Does that mean everybody else will be so lucky? You're just one person. Hardly reasonable to draw any conclusions from one person's experiences.

I experienced this also recently. You're going to see more and more of these stories, becasue it's not the letter of the law on paper that is the problem, it is the spirit of the law which blindly targets anyone a border agent doesn't like at first glance with a new anti-foreigner zeitgeist. One doesn't have to look like a stoner or a back-packer to bring on this wrath, only be someone they don't 'trust' for whatever emotionally driven reasons.

[LivinLOS]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

Is apparently now not in existence.

Why should there be one? Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Because Thailand spend billions marketing itself as a place for people to come and spend money..

so logically...

[samran]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

Is apparently now not in existence.

Why should there be one? Why does having a bit of cash entitle one to stay?

Because Thailand spend billions marketing itself as a place for people to come and spend money..

so logically...

For a holiday and then to nick off. Not some sort of decfacto resident unless you front the big $$$ for either a Thailand elite whatsit or an investment visa.

Otherwise you contribute via working here.

[JB300]

It seems to me that those who are making all the noise are the ones being targeted. I have my retirement visa multi entry atamp affixed I do the 90 day report like clock work I work with the system not around the system. Never had an issue. I travel often so alot of Immigration officers seem to know me by sight. A few times when check in lines were long I was taken over to the shorter Thai line and one to diplomat line. But then again I'm always polite to them. A couple of them even sat with me and chatted over coffee about How I liked Thailand. So want to stay use correct visa want to work again correct visa and work permit for work your doing Not Useing tourist VOA and border runs. If correct visa is used just need to check in is all short cab ride.

And the 'correct visa' for those under 50 who simply spend money here and dont break any laws is ??

There to work? - A work visa

There to run a Business? - A business visa

There to study? - an Education Visa

There on holiday/as a tourist for less than 30 days? - Visa Exempt

There on holiday/as a tourist for longer than 30 days? - a tourist Visa

There to rest between jobs? - (IMHO, one of the 2 previous options depending on how much downtime you have though obviously carries the risk of refused entry for the Visa Exempt & hassle of having to try to go to another country for the Tourist Visa)

There to work "online"? - I don't believe there's a visa that covers this short of joining a BOI company as suggested above

There to "Live" (to all intents & purposes retire) - there is no visa unless your 50+

Would be great to have:-

- Clear standards for use of Visa Exempt (e.g must have x days between stamps)

- a way (proven/recognized) that FIFO workers can get permission to stay for the duration of their downtime (certified by their employers)

- a way for digital/online workers to get permission to stay & pay taxes (subject to them not having paid tax somewhere else under a DTA)

- a way that people under 50 who have sufficient savings/passive income can get a retirement visa

But I'll keep dreaming...

Edited May 17, 2014 by JB300

[Soutpeel]

Because Thailand spend billions marketing itself as a place for people to come and spend money..

so logically...

yes your correct...but have never seen any marketing from TAT saying "we want you to come here, spend money and we want you to live here as long as you want "

I think the thrust of TAT marketing is come here as a tourist , spend money, you have earned in another country, and go home again...

Edited May 17, 2014 by Soutpeel

[samran]

Because Thailand spend billions marketing itself as a place for people to come and spend money..

so logically...

yes your correct...but have never seen any marketing from TAT saying "we want you to come here, spend money and we want you to live here as long as you want "

I think the thrust of TAT marketing is come here as a tourist , spend money and go home again...

Indeed. I believe the reliance on the 'TAT told me so' line is essentially grasping at straws. Next we will be getting 'if it wasn't for us Thailand would fall into a heap economically' Edited May 17, 2014 by samran