Step down for sake of the country, senators urge govt

[Prbkk]

Thugs.

[h90]

why don't the appointed senators 'step down for the sake of the country' and allow the people to choose their senators. why is it just the caretaker cabinet-which already resigned, that should resign again..

I agree with you. It cannot be that one man is threatening and pushing the whole country. Not even to make proposals of reforms. And also: who will be nominated for interim PM? NO NAMES. All hidden. No truths, all lies.

Yes luckily a huge amount of protesters try to stop one man pushing the whole country. Thank you Suthep for trying to end Thaksin pushing Thailand.

[srsv1238]

why don't the appointed senators 'step down for the sake of the country' and allow the people to choose their senators. why is it just the caretaker cabinet-which already resigned, that should resign again..

You don't seem to understand.

Your first point is unconstitutional

Your second is incorrect. They have not resigned

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. Why was the senate split in half between appointed and elected senators? It was all elected previously. Why it is unconstitutional to change it back to what it was before, but it was constitutional to change it into what it is today?

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[Morch]

This Government has lost all credibility,which has not improved since Yingluck has been forced out of office,they are dead in the water,clinging to power will achieve nothing!

The Senate has no credibility. Despite an attempt to massage the numbers, this story refers to 70 senators who attended a meeting. A minority of those senators, consisting primarily of the Democrat aligned senators, many of whom form the core 40 senators opposed to the election came out with their standard attack statement.

Nothing new there. They've been opposed to the people's elected government ever since the PTP took office.

I'd say both Senate and government are currently not very credible. So are most institutions and relevant bodies - judiciary, independent (yes, yes...say it if you have to) agencies, security forces, media, you name it.

And they keep trying to make unilateral moves to assert their lost credibility, which end up in naught, or serve to aggreviate

the situation. Alternatively, compromise offers are made, often including conditions which will obviously be unacceptable to

the opposing side.

And the bickering over who's got the right to do what, the tit-for-tat talk and aggressive rhetoric goes on, adding more fuel

to the fires.

The country seems to lack a leadership able to see beyond short term partisan gains, and caught up in a win-lose mentality

which makes even a temporary patch to the current mess seem unattainable, let alone a real long term attempt at reaching

a solution.

[h90]

How unelected senators can ask people chosen by the Thais to step down....What kind of world are we??? are we in 2014 or not????

New in Thailand (6 postings)?

When exactly did the Thais choose Niwatthamrong Bunsongphaisan?

[srsv1238]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

yes. you are missing the point

without reform to kick out criminals, cheaters, puppets and cronies and with rats reds threatening and intimidating

making it impossible for other parties to canvass

and without undoing brainwashing

fair, open democratic elections are impossible

how do you propose doing any of these? Are you just going to ban people from running because you don't like them or suspect them of wrong doing? Do they get a trial?

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[billd766]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

You are totally right but the farangs who post on this thread are obsessively anti-democratic. They are similar to the people who in February and March 1933 argued that now the time called for emergency measures and the suspension of democratic rights and rules of governance - we all know the result of that was Hitler usurping power and heaping misery on Germany and the world for the subsequent 12 years.

The TV farangs have learnt no lessons from history. They are hopelessly shaped by a "neo-colonialist" outlook where they basically see Thais as second-class citizens and themselves as vastly superior. That is why expat farangs hate Thai democracy - nothing is more repellant to them than to see Thais run their own country. They would much rather see the country run by a small elite and the vast majority of Thais told to stay "in their place". In the mindset of the TV farang who continually posts here in defense of Suthep and his gang of fascist thugs the destruction of Thai democracy would benefit his selfish expat existence more than if Thailand as a whole becomes more equal and fair.

Sadly, yout opinion like mine and every other farang who posts here isn't worth a bucket of warm spit.

Every farang can pontificate to their hearts content on why their side is right and the other side is wrong until the cows come home, but to ALL the Thai people, we have nothing to do with it at all.

It is not a farang problem, it is a Thai problem and ONLY Thais can work it out.

Granted we all want our side to win and the other side to lose but if you spend a year pushing your sides agenda against the other sides agenda it will make NO difference to the outcome.

[billd766]

This Government has lost all credibility,which has not improved since Yingluck has been forced out of office,they are dead in the water,clinging to power will achieve nothing!

The Senate has no credibility. Despite an attempt to massage the numbers, this story refers to 70 senators who attended a meeting. A minority of those senators, consisting primarily of the Democrat aligned senators, many of whom form the core 40 senators opposed to the election came out with their standard attack statement.

Nothing new there. They've been opposed to the people's elected government ever since the PTP took office.

Who says the Senate has no credibility?

[srsv1238]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

were you ? sleeping in Feb - there was an election and it failed another one will also fail, the simple truth is that there is a huge portion of the Thai people want reforms first - very possibly more than 50% but even if it was 40% an election is still not going to work - all of the voting public need to be on-board

The main point here is that those that want reforms are not saying no to an election - they are saying they want it delayed so reforms can take place first - so contrary to what the red spammers here are saying - everyone wants an election - nobody is advocating not to have an election which is a very important point -

What the reds stand to lose is power and money - these red leaders are getting paid huge amounts - PTP stand to lose huge amounts and possibly jail if an investigation is launched into government finance to find the missing stolen upwards of 800billion baht - PTP and the reds have a lot to lose which is why they are refusing to compromise

Reforms

Referendum

Election

It's as simple as that

what are these reforms that I keep hearing about? Can you list them?

nobody knows what the reforms would be exactly but they will be primarily designed to do a few important things -

- Shore up anti corruption laws and plug the gaps that Thaksin/PTP/reds tried to expose/exploit or in the case of the rice scheme - did exploit to the tune of billions and billions of baht

- Force transparency for all government finance and projects - they can not longer keep things hidden from the public and withhold the details

- Implement measures to stop vote buying and intimidation during elections

- Controls over election populist policies - perhaps a branch of the EC

- Rules governing candidates similar to Senators excluding those previously convicted of criminal offences - parlimentry abuse and corruption

- Banning those convicted for life and not just 5 years from taking office

- reform of the police

the list goes on but you get the idea

IMO the one thing That PTP and Thaksin have shown in the last 10 years is that there is a need for reform - the abuse of power and corruption has been unpresidented - some argue that corruption the last two years has decreased in Thailand - it is still to be investigated uncovered and exposed

a lot of these are quite reasonable. I am a bit suspicious of the banning populist election promises bit. That seems extremely difficult to enforce and infringes on the right to express one self and their ideas. Would a proposal to expand education, public works, health care spending be considered populist? Further, this reform platform should be fought and debated during an election. Just look at India. They just elected a PM promising to bring reforms to the country. That is really the most legit way for these reforms to be embraced and take root in society.

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[Morch]

This Government has lost all credibility,which has not improved since Yingluck has been forced out of office,they are dead in the water,clinging to power will achieve nothing!

The Senate has no credibility. Despite an attempt to massage the numbers, this story refers to 70 senators who attended a meeting. A minority of those senators, consisting primarily of the Democrat aligned senators, many of whom form the core 40 senators opposed to the election came out with their standard attack statement.

Nothing new there. They've been opposed to the people's elected government ever since the PTP took office.

Who says the Senate has no credibility?

Seeing as only 70 senators attended, with most of them being associated with one faction, and the meetings being informal -

it is quite dubious to call what they say credible. Some could probably raise other issues, such as the speaker's election etc.

[Mark Thaiford]

Before you go too far down the road with your Hitler talk maybe you can read this, about a new book explaining Hitler's rise. When you are done, I can introduce you to Lenin, the man who introduced democracy to Russia, by defeating the royals....

Reform, dictatorship, democracy - all words in common discussion in Thailand today, interestingly enough. "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" might well send the odd chill of uncomfortable familiarity up the spines of readers here. "Hitler and the Nazis, von Papen reasoned, had the popular support, whilst he and his friends had the intelligence to manage them," Rees writes, referring to Hitler's predecessor as chancellor of Germany.

Your attempt to draw an analogy between Thaksin and Hitler is very poor. Why not draw a parallel between David Cameron and Hitler, or Barack Obama and Hitler? Or for that matter any other Democratically elected leader around the World? It would be just as good an analogy to make as the one you are trying to make against Thaksin.

There is no basis for comparison between Thaksin and Hitler. At every election and at every political meeting leading up to Hitler becoming chancellor in 1933, Hitler declared that he wanted to abolish democracy. Democracy was an abomination to Hitler. At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to ablosih Thai democracy - but we know who has ... Suthep and his fascist thugs.

Also the constant attempts to demonise Thaksin and anyone associated with him is straight out of Goebbels propaganda handbook - demonise your enemy, repeat a lie enough times and people will end up believing it. The biggest weapon the pro-fascists on this forum use is constant myth-making about Thaksin - choosing to refer to him as "the criminal from Dubai" when in actual fact those "criminal" charges only relate back to trivialities.

The "real" criminals in Thai society walk free because the courts are very biased in their favour. Similarly, after Hitler staged an armed insurrection in 1923 that led to several deaths he was given a lenient sentence by a sympathetic court. In Thailand it is even worse as the criminal Suthep still walks around freely and has meetings with high ranking senators without being arrested and put on trial as he should be.

[Just1Voice]

#1 on my list of "reforms" is to completely do away with "Parliamentary Immunity". That is pure B.S of the highest degree.

[ShannonT]

The same can be said of Suthep.

Go home for the sake of the country,

Does he care about the country? No.

At least Puea Thai was elected. Did anyone elect Suthep to dictate the country what to do? No.

He initially said his plan was to get rid of the amnesty bill and he would go home. The amnesty bill was removed and he kept going. Then he said when Yingluck steps down, he will go home. Yingluck stepped down and he is still pushing for yet more.

He is a power hungry liar, who will not stop until he holds absolute power, nothing more.

Edited May 17, 2014 by ShannonT

[Mot Leei]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

Yes you are missing something, 2 words.

FREE and FAIR.

I really think this free and fair thing is being used incorrectly. I doubt greatly that any amount of reform, legislation, police cooperation, or the like will make it any easier for elect-hopeful politicians to give speeches in areas that are clearly of an opposite political persuasion .... that is a very unrealistic expectation for Thailand at this time, and quite frankly the last 6 months of protests trying to force people has made things even more polarised.

Thai people are not good at compromise. They have an opinion and then that's it ... no discussion, no thinking. As is fairly clear here in TVF its like a disease and is spreading to us farangs. You can write all the rules you like about being nice to each other but people will continue to insult, demean, and criticise anything that doesn't fit their agenda. So those here are proud in itself that the alleged "free and fair" election reforms will simply be ignored and the people will continue to hate those that don't match their beliefs ... its the Thai way ... accept it and move on already.

Fair will only come when politicians treat each othet with respect. When they show leadership, care for the country and each other. When they accept the validity of each others opinions and beliefs. And mostly when the people of the country see them doing this.

For example, if you think it's unrealistic for a red shirt to walk past a PDRC protest and have a polite conversation about the path forward without getting beaten to within an inch of his life then you are being equally unrealistic when you believe that Thailand is politically mature enough for the sort of free and fair being thrown around here.

At this point in Thailands political maturity, free and fair will only go as far as everyone being able to go to vote and without fear of reprisal from some thug outside.

It will take change in the politicians behaviours, not in their laws, that will see things move forward. Mind you, a freer press would help in this matter. While thai politicians and figure heads are spotting off somewhat intimidating rhetoric, the people will copy. Politicians need to show each other politeness and respect if they wish it from the people .... not fake double talk.

Until then ... the only way for the country to function is by holding elections with proper security ... and harsh penalty for those trying to prevent people from exercising a voice.

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[Morch]

Before you go too far down the road with your Hitler talk maybe you can read this, about a new book explaining Hitler's rise. When you are done, I can introduce you to Lenin, the man who introduced democracy to Russia, by defeating the royals....

Reform, dictatorship, democracy - all words in common discussion in Thailand today, interestingly enough. "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" might well send the odd chill of uncomfortable familiarity up the spines of readers here. "Hitler and the Nazis, von Papen reasoned, had the popular support, whilst he and his friends had the intelligence to manage them," Rees writes, referring to Hitler's predecessor as chancellor of Germany.

Your attempt to draw an analogy between Thaksin and Hitler is very poor. Why not draw a parallel between David Cameron and Hitler, or Barack Obama and Hitler? Or for that matter any other Democratically elected leader around the World? It would be just as good an analogy to make as the one you are trying to make against Thaksin.

There is no basis for comparison between Thaksin and Hitler. At every election and at every political meeting leading up to Hitler becoming chancellor in 1933, Hitler declared that he wanted to abolish democracy. Democracy was an abomination to Hitler. At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to ablosih Thai democracy - but we know who has ... Suthep and his fascist thugs.

Also the constant attempts to demonise Thaksin and anyone associated with him is straight out of Goebbels propaganda handbook - demonise your enemy, repeat a lie enough times and people will end up believing it. The biggest weapon the pro-fascists on this forum use is constant myth-making about Thaksin - choosing to refer to him as "the criminal from Dubai" when in actual fact those "criminal" charges only relate back to trivialities.

The "real" criminals in Thai society walk free because the courts are very biased in their favour. Similarly, after Hitler staged an armed insurrection in 1923 that led to several deaths he was given a lenient sentence by a sympathetic court. In Thailand it is even worse as the criminal Suthep still walks around freely and has meetings with high ranking senators without being arrested and put on trial as he should be.

"At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to abolish Thai democracy".

Indeed, he did not declare any such thing.

He did however say:

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."...

..."Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices."...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PMS-DECLARATIONDemocracy-is-not-my-goal-90316.html

As for demonizing, quite a bit of it in your own posts, maybe better to set an example first, before calling others to behave.

[Scamper]

The Senate is taking a decidedly moderate path, and that is good, because they want a resolution that is acceptable by all sides, or at least to whatever degree such a thing would be possible. They haven't lost hope. Surachai in his three point statement does not rule out the nomination of a new prime minister through the Senate, but instead regards it as a last resort - as he should. But if the situation where an administration absent a parliament and in a state of perpetual legislative paralysis were to remain indefinitely with increased political strive on the streets - then at some point it becomes much more likely that such a provision would be considered. Surachai again makes an appeal for all parties to engage in the dialogue. Much would be facilitated if the Pheu Thai administration were to step down, of course, but no one expects that to happen. And yet, they must find themselves increasingly asking themselves what is the end result of not doing so - as they have no legislative power or any feasible pathway to obtaining it. The Pheu Thai strategy could change, but what it has been up until now is - avoid discussion, veer away from any plan that includes reform, take trips up to the North whenever possible, encourage the army to impose martial law nationwide to facilitate an entire election, and use the power of CAPO to threaten the courts, the Senate, the NACC, and all who they regard as problematic to their cause. And that strategy has intensified rather considerably, not decreased. There is no indication that Pheu Thai have any intention other than to bulldoze ahead with all autocratic perseverance. As they have no actual power, autocratic perseverance is all that is left.

The Senate is eager that the constitutional institutions that are still functioning, continue to function. They are - the Senate, the Constitutional Court and others courts, and the National Anti-Corruption Commission and other independent agencies. All these are currently functioning. So if any solution is to be found - it will be through the existing constitution institutions that are currently functioning, and not from the Pheu Thai administration, that has not the backing of a parliament.

[Mot Leei]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

You are totally right but the farangs who post on this thread are obsessively anti-democratic. They are similar to the people who in February and March 1933 argued that now the time called for emergency measures and the suspension of democratic rights and rules of governance - we all know the result of that was Hitler usurping power and heaping misery on Germany and the world for the subsequent 12 years.

The TV farangs have learnt no lessons from history. They are hopelessly shaped by a "neo-colonialist" outlook where they basically see Thais as second-class citizens and themselves as vastly superior. That is why expat farangs hate Thai democracy - nothing is more repellant to them than to see Thais run their own country. They would much rather see the country run by a small elite and the vast majority of Thais told to stay "in their place". In the mindset of the TV farang who continually posts here in defense of Suthep and his gang of fascist thugs the destruction of Thai democracy would benefit his selfish expat existence more than if Thailand as a whole becomes more equal and fair.

Steady on there. I'm farang and totally 100% pro democratic election. I take great exception to everything you say. Clearly you are somewhat upset, but please try not to lump everyone into your single minded generalisations ... please.

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[Robby nz]

Really out of this world how the reds rant on about appointed senators as if its some sort of a crime.

The senate is made up according to law so get used to it.

The present acting president of the senate was voted into the job in a democratic election of all senators and if memory serves me correctly with a majority of over 80%, that he has as yet not received royal endorsement is a detail, it will happen for his majesty will not turn down the choice of the senate.

The senate could by now have been fully elected for there was a bill before the house to change section 190 of the constitution to allow just that and all parties agreed to the proposal.

However at the last minute extra clauses were added to allow friends and family of sitting MP's to stand for senate positions and to abolish the 6 year term.

This would have allowed the party in power to stack the senate with their own people who could have stayed in the senate for life virtually abolishing the checks and balances role of the senate.

These clauses and the fact that the altered bill was sneaked through in an unlawful manner meant it was taken to the CC who found to be unconstitutional.

So you can blame PT for the fact that there are still appointed senators for if they had not tried to subvert the law the bill in its agreed form would have been law by now.

What is holding up any progress to a democratic solution within the law are 26 caretaker cabinet ministers who refuse to step aside for the good of the country.

Tell me, how many of those 26 are in fact elected ?

That is, were actual MP"s in the previous PT administration who have faced the people at the ballot box ?

And how many were appointed during the many cabinet reshuffles ?

If you want to go on about the legitimacy of elected versus appointed the answer to that would have a big bearing on your argument .

The senate is in fact at present the only fully functional part of Government this country has.

The status of the 26 as an arm of Government is in doubt and will probably have to be taken to the CC, this has been highlighted by the EC in respect of the signing of a royal decree to hold an election.

The senate has every right to make decisions and is going about things in a democratic manner by consulting with everyone who will meet with them.

[Mark Thaiford]

Before you go too far down the road with your Hitler talk maybe you can read this, about a new book explaining Hitler's rise. When you are done, I can introduce you to Lenin, the man who introduced democracy to Russia, by defeating the royals....

Reform, dictatorship, democracy - all words in common discussion in Thailand today, interestingly enough. "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" might well send the odd chill of uncomfortable familiarity up the spines of readers here. "Hitler and the Nazis, von Papen reasoned, had the popular support, whilst he and his friends had the intelligence to manage them," Rees writes, referring to Hitler's predecessor as chancellor of Germany.

Your attempt to draw an analogy between Thaksin and Hitler is very poor. Why not draw a parallel between David Cameron and Hitler, or Barack Obama and Hitler? Or for that matter any other Democratically elected leader around the World? It would be just as good an analogy to make as the one you are trying to make against Thaksin.

There is no basis for comparison between Thaksin and Hitler. At every election and at every political meeting leading up to Hitler becoming chancellor in 1933, Hitler declared that he wanted to abolish democracy. Democracy was an abomination to Hitler. At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to ablosih Thai democracy - but we know who has ... Suthep and his fascist thugs.

Also the constant attempts to demonise Thaksin and anyone associated with him is straight out of Goebbels propaganda handbook - demonise your enemy, repeat a lie enough times and people will end up believing it. The biggest weapon the pro-fascists on this forum use is constant myth-making about Thaksin - choosing to refer to him as "the criminal from Dubai" when in actual fact those "criminal" charges only relate back to trivialities.

The "real" criminals in Thai society walk free because the courts are very biased in their favour. Similarly, after Hitler staged an armed insurrection in 1923 that led to several deaths he was given a lenient sentence by a sympathetic court. In Thailand it is even worse as the criminal Suthep still walks around freely and has meetings with high ranking senators without being arrested and put on trial as he should be.

"At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to abolish Thai democracy".

Indeed, he did not declare any such thing.

He did however say:

"Democracy is a good and beautiful thing, but it's not the ultimate goal as far as administering the country is concerned," he said. "Democracy is just a tool, not our goal. The goal is to give people a good lifestyle, happiness and national progress."...

..."Democracy is a vehicle," Thaksin said. "We can't drive a Rolls-Royce to a rural village and solve people's problems. A pickup truck or good off-road car will do. We just need to think carefully and make the right choices."...

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/PMS-DECLARATIONDemocracy-is-not-my-goal-90316.html

As for demonizing, quite a bit of it in your own posts, maybe better to set an example first, before calling others to behave.

Just saying that democracy is a tool rather than an end in itself is something that many democrats may agree with - there is nothing intrinsically un-democratic about that. If you were a purist in terms of democracy you could easily end up with an unworkable system. There needs to be a balance between democratic accountability and being able to actually lead. There is nothing in the quote you show to support that Thaksin does not want democracy to continue in Thailand.

As for me demonising the regular posters here who are obsessively anti-Thaksin. Well, we all reach a point were the hypocrisy gets to be too much. I regularly read TV for updates on the situation in Thailand but constantly have to wade through the same old propaganda from the same posters. These posters cloak themselves in the same old cliches and verbal attacks against Thaksin every time we hear news about the Thai judiciary and other appointed agencies proceeding to carry out their "putsch" against the democratically elected government. They cheer on the abolition of democracy so they should just come out and say it plainly - as some have - they don't want democracy for Thailand because they fear the people of Thailand.

[Mot Leei]

Free and fair Thai style:

Thaksin: "I want free and fair, here's 1000 bhat, go vote for me"

Suthep: "I want free and fair, but if you try and vote we'll stop you."

Abbisit: "I want free and fair, so im not going to play with you unless I can win."

Thai leadership at its best .... just hold an election already and let's see if we can't find a new child to ruin the country

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Edited May 17, 2014 by Mot Leei

[djjamie]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

Yes you are missing something, 2 words.

FREE and FAIR.

How were the last elections in February neither free nor fair?

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Here is the "official" counting of ballots in Chanthaburi in February.

Excuse the Thai writing. It is the picture that makes the point.

Even when the PTP have an absolute majority and can abide by free and fair voting….It is still not free or fair.

Voter fraud by the PTP in parliament when voting on the loan bill.

Voter fraud by PTP in parliament when voting on senate make up.

Respect my vote? In the words of a Pattaya ladyboy….Respect my ass!!

[Lite Beer]

Senate dashes Suthep’s hopes for interim PM

BANGKOK: An informal Senate session has failed to come up with any concrete way to install an interim prime minister, dashing the hopes of the anti-government People’s Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) that a so-called “neutral” premier would be appointed by their deadline of yesterday (May 16).

PDRC leader Suthep Thaugsuban was disappointed with the result of the Senate meeting and announced that his movement will now find a way to have an interim prime minister on its own.

A frustrated Mr Suthep called the Senate leaders “gutless”.

The demonstrators appear to be running out of options after six months of civil disobedience that has failed to fully unseat the government.

Mr Suthep also asked the PDRC’s provincial branches nationwide, government officials and other organisations which are aligned with the PDRC, to send their representatives to a meeting today (May 17) at Government House to discuss plans to “seize control of sovereign power”.

The announcement came as the rival red-shirt United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) is scheduled to ramp up its protest in the capital Saturday.

UDD chairman Jatuporn Prompan later said the Senate meeting had frustrated Mr Suthep’s hopes that an interim prime minister would have been installed by yesterday.

However, the session of the Upper House agreed that the Senate will meet again to consider feedback from various sectors to find a new prime minister.

Speaking after the session, acting Senate Speaker Surachai Liangboonlertchai said it had been agreed that efforts must be made to complete national reforms swiftly to restore peace to the country and that a prime minister and government invested with full authority to run the country is needed to implement reforms.

The Senate session discussed various views and suggestions a Senate coordinating committee had gathered from representatives of the military, government officials and sectors of society over the past week to try to break the political deadlock.

Sen Surachai said the meeting wanted the acting caretaker prime minister, the caretaker government and political parties to engage in talks with the Senate to find a way out of the political deadlock.

Sen Jate Siratharanont said the Senate will consider feedback gathered from all sectors of society in a special Senate session, which would be held to find an interim premier in accordance with the constitution — a process that would involve all sectors of society.

Sen Surachai pleaded with the people to trust the Senate to solve the country’s political problems.

The Senate has assured that it will try its best to restore peace and harmony to the country as soon as possible.

Sen Jate revealed that a majority of the informal Senate session agreed yesterday that two provisions of the constitution may be used to appoint an interim government invested with full authority to run the country.

He said participants at the meeting agreed that sections 180 and 7 of the constitution can be applied to install an interim prime minister and government.

Section 180 deals with the entire cabinet vacating office en masse while Section 7 is a measure to deal with any problem that is not covered by any other provisions in the charter.

However, this was only the meeting’s suggestion and it was not binding on other organisations, Sen Jate said, adding that the meeting had not yet nominated anybody to become interim prime minister.

Acting caretaker Prime Minister Niwattumrong Boonsongpaisan also denied a report that he will meet a Senate committee today to discuss ways to end the political crisis.

He issued his denial after a member of a coordinating committee set up by Sen Surachai told reporters on Thursday that Mr Niwattumrong had agreed to meet for talks today with the Senate panel.

Mr Niwattumrong said he was not aware of any invitation to the talks, adding that he had other engagements in the North over the weekend.

Chusak Sirinil, a member of the Pheu Thai Party’s legal team, said the law does not authorise the Senate to appoint an interim premier.

The Senate’s tasks only cover screening legislation, and appointing and removing other political-officer holders from office, he said, adding that the caretaker cabinet is required by the constitution to remain in office until a new elected cabinet is chosen to replace it.

The PDRC was dismayed yesterday by the outcome of the Senate meeting.

The group gathered outside parliament to express its support for the Senate’s efforts to install an interim premier while awaiting the result of the informal session.

After learning the results of the meeting, Mr Suthep then led demonstrators to return to their rally site on Ratchadamnoen Avenue.

Before the Senate meeting’s outcome was announced, Mr Suthep said the Senate was the only hope remaining to bring an end to the country’s months-long political crisis.

-- Phuket News 2014-05-17

[smedly]

were you ? sleeping in Feb - there was an election and it failed another one will also fail, the simple truth is that there is a huge portion of the Thai people want reforms first - very possibly more than 50% but even if it was 40% an election is still not going to work - all of the voting public need to be on-board

The main point here is that those that want reforms are not saying no to an election - they are saying they want it delayed so reforms can take place first - so contrary to what the red spammers here are saying - everyone wants an election - nobody is advocating not to have an election which is a very important point -

What the reds stand to lose is power and money - these red leaders are getting paid huge amounts - PTP stand to lose huge amounts and possibly jail if an investigation is launched into government finance to find the missing stolen upwards of 800billion baht - PTP and the reds have a lot to lose which is why they are refusing to compromise

Reforms

Referendum

Election

It's as simple as that

what are these reforms that I keep hearing about? Can you list them?

nobody knows what the reforms would be exactly but they will be primarily designed to do a few important things -

- Shore up anti corruption laws and plug the gaps that Thaksin/PTP/reds tried to expose/exploit or in the case of the rice scheme - did exploit to the tune of billions and billions of baht

- Force transparency for all government finance and projects - they can not longer keep things hidden from the public and withhold the details

- Implement measures to stop vote buying and intimidation during elections

- Controls over election populist policies - perhaps a branch of the EC

- Rules governing candidates similar to Senators excluding those previously convicted of criminal offences - parlimentry abuse and corruption

- Banning those convicted for life and not just 5 years from taking office

- reform of the police

the list goes on but you get the idea

IMO the one thing That PTP and Thaksin have shown in the last 10 years is that there is a need for reform - the abuse of power and corruption has been unpresidented - some argue that corruption the last two years has decreased in Thailand - it is still to be investigated uncovered and exposed

a lot of these are quite reasonable. I am a bit suspicious of the banning populist election promises bit. That seems extremely difficult to enforce and infringes on the right to express one self and their ideas. Would a proposal to expand education, public works, health care spending be considered populist? Further, this reform platform should be fought and debated during an election. Just look at India. They just elected a PM promising to bring reforms to the country. That is really the most legit way for these reforms to be embraced and take root in society.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

yes I agree that some election populist policies would be difficult to judge or administer but PTP were clearly way out there with the 4 main ones that have now faultered

Minimum wage ( or if worded differently ) give everybody a 30% payrise - this is now costing the country dear - inflation is rampant - businesses going out of business etc etc - it was an election promise that was flawed from the start - PTP should have been challenged on the merits of such a promise - it was outlandish foolish careless and flawed

Rice Pledge Scheme - not going to go there about how stupid that was not the mention the corruption involved and how it has destroyed Thailands Rice Industry

Tablet computers - more like a Christmas gift than a tool to enhance education - what a waste of money - Thai education - most money spent in Asia with least improvement and quite possibly the worst performance

First Car Scheme - resulting in a flood of cars on the roads that people didn't need the roads didn't need- personal debt defaults of people that didn't do the sums, government now unable to pay - were is the money

All outlandish populist policies that should have been challenged and weren't - have the people learned from it - you would like to think so but probably not

Where the Dems allowed to campaign in the North and tell the people there how foolish these schemes were - no

Parents out pawning off their valuables to pay for school and kids running around with useless and/or faulty tablets while the education system falls to pieces

There is an awful lot wrong with the political landscape in Thailand and it needs fixed - now

[AleG]

why don't the appointed senators 'step down for the sake of the country' and allow the people to choose their senators. why is it just the caretaker cabinet-which already resigned, that should resign again..

Because the PTP government has proven itself unable or unwilling to act in the best interests of the country after their Amnesty Bill debacle, that's why they should resign, six months ago would had been a better time though.

[rabas]

Before you go too far down the road with your Hitler talk maybe you can read this, about a new book explaining Hitler's rise. When you are done, I can introduce you to Lenin, the man who introduced democracy to Russia, by defeating the royals....

Reform, dictatorship, democracy - all words in common discussion in Thailand today, interestingly enough. "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" might well send the odd chill of uncomfortable familiarity up the spines of readers here. "Hitler and the Nazis, von Papen reasoned, had the popular support, whilst he and his friends had the intelligence to manage them," Rees writes, referring to Hitler's predecessor as chancellor of Germany.

Your attempt to draw an analogy between Thaksin and Hitler is very poor. Why not draw a parallel between David Cameron and Hitler, or Barack Obama and Hitler? Or for that matter any other Democratically elected leader around the World? It would be just as good an analogy to make as the one you are trying to make against Thaksin.

There is no basis for comparison between Thaksin and Hitler. At every election and at every political meeting leading up to Hitler becoming chancellor in 1933, Hitler declared that he wanted to abolish democracy. Democracy was an abomination to Hitler. At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to ablosih Thai democracy - but we know who has ... Suthep and his fascist thugs.

Also the constant attempts to demonise Thaksin and anyone associated with him is straight out of Goebbels propaganda handbook - demonise your enemy, repeat a lie enough times and people will end up believing it. The biggest weapon the pro-fascists on this forum use is constant myth-making about Thaksin - choosing to refer to him as "the criminal from Dubai" when in actual fact those "criminal" charges only relate back to trivialities.

The "real" criminals in Thai society walk free because the courts are very biased in their favour. Similarly, after Hitler staged an armed insurrection in 1923 that led to several deaths he was given a lenient sentence by a sympathetic court. In Thailand it is even worse as the criminal Suthep still walks around freely and has meetings with high ranking senators without being arrested and put on trial as he should be.

Sorry, I did not mention one single word about Mr. Thaksin, nor provide any preface for readers. The words are not even mine, they are from a review of a recent historical work about the rise of Hitler. Nor did the review's author mention Mr. Thaksin. Your leap to defend him seems incredibly telling. If you disagree with the historical facts please consult the author.

By the way, your removal of your own reference to Hitler, to which I was responding is against forum rules, as far as I know.

[realenglish1]

This is getting comical . Suthip you said you wanted to get rid of Yingluk You did but ever time an event takes place you move the marker. This is not democracy .

Be very aware of SUTHIP he is looking to grab power for himself He is not a former or a democrat. He reminds me of a child who does not get his way

I am beginning to believe Suthip is the problem not the solution

[Mark Thaiford]

Before you go too far down the road with your Hitler talk maybe you can read this, about a new book explaining Hitler's rise. When you are done, I can introduce you to Lenin, the man who introduced democracy to Russia, by defeating the royals....

Reform, dictatorship, democracy - all words in common discussion in Thailand today, interestingly enough. "The Dark Charisma of Adolf Hitler" might well send the odd chill of uncomfortable familiarity up the spines of readers here. "Hitler and the Nazis, von Papen reasoned, had the popular support, whilst he and his friends had the intelligence to manage them," Rees writes, referring to Hitler's predecessor as chancellor of Germany.

Your attempt to draw an analogy between Thaksin and Hitler is very poor. Why not draw a parallel between David Cameron and Hitler, or Barack Obama and Hitler? Or for that matter any other Democratically elected leader around the World? It would be just as good an analogy to make as the one you are trying to make against Thaksin.

There is no basis for comparison between Thaksin and Hitler. At every election and at every political meeting leading up to Hitler becoming chancellor in 1933, Hitler declared that he wanted to abolish democracy. Democracy was an abomination to Hitler. At no point has Thaksin declared that he wants to ablosih Thai democracy - but we know who has ... Suthep and his fascist thugs.

Also the constant attempts to demonise Thaksin and anyone associated with him is straight out of Goebbels propaganda handbook - demonise your enemy, repeat a lie enough times and people will end up believing it. The biggest weapon the pro-fascists on this forum use is constant myth-making about Thaksin - choosing to refer to him as "the criminal from Dubai" when in actual fact those "criminal" charges only relate back to trivialities.

The "real" criminals in Thai society walk free because the courts are very biased in their favour. Similarly, after Hitler staged an armed insurrection in 1923 that led to several deaths he was given a lenient sentence by a sympathetic court. In Thailand it is even worse as the criminal Suthep still walks around freely and has meetings with high ranking senators without being arrested and put on trial as he should be.

Sorry, I did not mention one single word about Mr. Thaksin, nor provide any preface for readers. The words are not even mine, they are from a review of a recent historical work about the rise of Hitler. Nor did the review's author mention Mr. Thaksin. Your leap to defend him seems incredibly telling. If you disagree with the historical facts please consult the author.

By the way, your removal of your own reference to Hitler, to which I was responding is against forum rules, as far as I know.

Again there with the hypocrisy. Of course, you were implying that Hitler and Thaksin were similar - who are you trying to kid?

[dukeandduke]

Suthep responded, "Is that your final answer?"

[arisaje]

Surely the best way to get a prime minister & cabinet with full authority would be to have an election or am I missing something?

Surely "full authority" must include the mandate of the people?

Well yes you are pretty accurate with your comments; but unlike most countries in the World…..it doesn't work in Thailand, they have elections and a party wins, then the rivals spit out their dummies and want to be back in power again regardless of the results.

The government were brought in to power in a free and fair election, just like they were before, and just like they would be again and again. Unfortunately for Suthep and his backers (under the guise of the paid PDRC followers) they are envious of the governments ability to hold power and make seemingly corrupt deals without them.

I do not doubt that if the PDRC did succeed, they would bring in sweeping reforms that prevent the majority of people in Northern Thailand from ever voting effectively again, because if they didn't we will be back in this situation again after the next election……..but that would really be pushing the country to the brink of civil war.

I moved on from Thailand and watch this whole mess from afar, but speaking to Thai friends on the ground there, they don't care who is in power now, they just want some peace and if need be for the PTP to finish their term. If their rivals spent as much time and effort putting together a 'decent' party with a 'great' leader then they could win the next election…….the reason they don't, is because they can't.

[pkspeaker]

same ol from the pad/pdrc tvposters--

* they insist that this 'reform' needs to take place but never explain why it wasn't done after the coup OR Abhists term a few years ago..like we must have these massive groundbreaking reforms and a new constitution every 2 years, or everytime the PhuaThai wins the election.

* They insist this 'reform' can only take place if a Democrat/pad/pdrc selected dictator is put in place with total powers, this week they're saying that this appointed senator surachai has the power to do this, he can 'select' a PM with full powers, even though the Senate is out of session-they site the vague section 7 as proof that he has this right. And of course the only reason we still have a(half) elected Senate, is because the reds didn't sabotage the Senate election like the PDRC did, so by their logic, the better you sabotage elections, the more you deserve to be in power.

* They insist that the Senate "is the only functioning part of the house (even though it is out of session until after the next election takes place and a new lower house is seated) It can function via 'informal' meetings. It can even 'informally' select a new PM and cabinet-with full powers.

* They insist that the elections here are not free and fair, even though the pro-establishment EC monitors it and so does any other international org thailand needs. Now they say it's not safe for democrats to canvass in the north-this after the democrats have repeatedly sabotaged elections and rioted so that a dictator is put in power.. for some reason people are pissed at them for that.

* They insist that there is this massive 'vote buying' suggesting that Thai People have no ethics, they are willing to sell their vote for a few hundred baht, and they are easily 'manipulated' (stupid) and that they 'dont understand the issues, even though the Thai population is overwhelmingly literate.

* They suggest that if the elections 'were free and fair' the democrats would win, even though they are loosing by a landslide.

* They insist that things like the rice subsidy program caused this massive ruination of the country, even though it's less than 5% of the budget, considering how much of the pledged rice is sold and a t what price.

* They insist that because 1 election was sabotaged, we can't just have another 1, elections are no longer possible-therefore this democrat guy gets the job.