Suthep and Jatuporn nowhere near backing down

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Suthep and Jatuporn nowhere near backing down
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- With firebrand politicians now leading the charge on both sides, chances of a compromise look slimmer than ever

The not-so-gracious exit of Yingluck Shinawatra has intensified the political spotlight on two men. Suthep Thaugsuban accuses Jatuporn Prompan of being a terrorist, and the latter accuses the former of being a mass murderer. Anyone who assumes that political peace is closer now should pause to consider the fact that these men are at the forefront of the ongoing showdown. Even if people around them or "above" them finally want peace or are simply tired of struggle, it doesn't necessarily mean the two men will call it a day and go home.

At the hallowed Royal Plaza a few weeks ago, Suthep swore an oath that he would not relent until the "Thaksin system" was eradicated. Jatuporn has meanwhile vowed to shed blood in defence of democracy, and by "democracy" he means the Thaksin system. If chances of a compromise were slim before, the situation hasn't changed much now.

Suthep's threat at the Royal Plaza carried a strong message, and so did Jatuporn's rise to the helm of the pro-government red-shirt movement. Jatuporn was the most important protest leader during the 2010 uprising, but after the Pheu Thai Party took power in 2011 he assumed a lower profile. His take-over of the red-shirt leadership from Thida Thavornseth several weeks ago served as a warning to enemies of Pheu Thai that the ruling party would not go down without a bloody fight.

The two sides have been taking turns staging mass rallies. Tension has risen since the day the Constitutional Court issued its ruling on the removal of Thawil Pliensri as head of the National Security Council. The ruling ousted Yingluck from office, and the Anti-Corruption Commission followed up with another blow by indicting her in connection with charges of corruption in the rice price-pledging scheme. The developments have turned the main focus of our political drama on Suthep and Jatuporn, whose next moves have everyone holding their breath.

Renewed tension is building against a backdrop of reported behind-the-scenes attempts by "senior figures", including military leaders, to defuse the national crisis. But what can be accomplished now that both Suthep and Jatuporn are adamant they won't budge? That these men are leading each side's charge can only mean one of two things. Either both camps are going for broke, or they want to force a compromise from the other. Both theories only heighten pessimism about the future, though to different degrees.

The dire consequences of the two camps going for broke are obvious. The latter theory - that drastic measures are being employed to force a compromise - brings fear that the "point of no return" is falling farther and farther behind us.

Mutual hatred is dangerously high, and more confrontation will only deepen the rift. The first theory foresees something bad happening really soon, but the second carries the prospect of a prolonged agony eating slowly into the national soul. Which is worse is not an easy question to answer.

Some reports suggest that Pheu Thai might accept a genuinely neutral figure as interim prime minister. From his rally stage Jatuporn has offered no clue he might be willing to compromise. On the other hand, even if Jatuporn does agree to accept a "neutral figure", it doesn't necessarily mean Suthep will play along. And, in the unlikely event that both men accept the same neutral figure, we will merely have taken a baby step towards a real settlement. The neutral prime minister would still have to oversee an acrimonious reform process for which proposals are extremely polarised.

Can reform take place under circumstances where hatred prevails and is being fed daily, while reason takes a back seat? That the people who matter keep avoiding this question is anything but cause for optimism.

-- The Nation 2014-05-17

[NongKhaiKid]

" I'll step back if you step back "

" OK but you step back first "

" Well since I'm right you do it first "

" OK then, final push and civil war. "

" Oh and i'm still right "

[BlueNoseCodger]

Go away with your tiresome fake "neutral PMs" and have elections.

[Cobragold]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

[Cobragold]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

As discussed yesterday this will be abused by the PTP ,back to vote buying, intimidation, no different to an election, so that the out come might not be the correct out come , this has already been thought of, why do you think the PTP support such an idea.

[ozvenison]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

As discussed yesterday this will be abused by the PTP ,back to vote buying, intimidation, no different to an election, so that the out come might not be the correct out come , this has already been thought of, why do you think the PTP support such an idea.

I think you should read up a bit more in the vote buying BS and the effects on recent Thai elections, plenty of references in Thai Visa on recent studies..

[ozvenison]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

As discussed yesterday this will be abused by the PTP ,back to vote buying, intimidation, no different to an election, so that the out come might not be the correct out come , this has already been thought of, why do you think the PTP support such an idea.

I think you should read up a bit more in the vote buying BS and the effects on recent Thai elections, plenty of references in Thai Visa on recent studies.. and both side do it

[thesetat2013]

Go away with your tiresome fake "neutral PMs" and have elections.

So you want another fake pm like YL. That is not the answer either simply because they will bring the country to ruin.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[thesetat2013]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP needs to give up their stronghold in the North and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ginjag]

Neither of these two should be involved, one should be in Surat--the other in jail, abusing bail conditions.

1, The PTP elected government failed miserably in ruling democratically, they abused power and tried to bend the law to suit Thaksin,( amnesty)

2, They got elected through the system, but with the flagrant abuse of Thai peoples money etc they find themselves in this situation.

3, No one in their right mind would consider elections to include any of the officials of PTP, why I said this is because you are in government as an MP you can still object to what your own government are doing, these MPs then are decent MPs.

4, Because of all the anger and demonstrations connected to a self destructed government, who think they are entitled to cling to power --and it's not for good conduct, It is for what ?? or better for who???

5 To put an end for any cheating party in the future, Mega laws have to be introduced to penalize any person, who is guilty of corruption.

6 Any MP who has any police record or a.n. other shall not be eligible for election.

7, This is the most important item. The police to be re-vamped to serve the pubic not themselves.

I still do expect to be shouted down from the Pro gov posters, as these 7 points will not suit their rhetoric.

[wabothai]

The problems thailand is facing are not political. The solutions lay in the core of thai culture.......attitude change from both sides is the only way to peace and prosperity.

[The stuttering parrot]

Has anyone noticed that the nation just keeps rewriting the same story over and over again!

Not just this story either.

The headlines might be different but the stories are basically rehashes of previous stories.

Then the posters get on here and just churn out the same lines day after day!

Come up with something different for change.

The nation just seems to like stoking the fires!

[ginjag]

Has anyone noticed that the nation just keeps rewriting the same story over and over again!

Not just this story either.

The headlines might be different but the stories are basically rehashes of previous stories.

Then the posters get on here and just churn out the same lines day after day!

Come up with something different for change.

The nation just seems to like stoking the fires!

This seems to sum up you to a tee. you are a joke man. fancy coming out with this (even if it was true) you are a photo copy of them.

My post #11 gives some points that are never answered by you in a direct way, hence the comments here.

[The stuttering parrot]

Hey Ginny get a life mate!

I think you have a crush on me!

Sorry not into stalkers!

But go ahead tell how bad yingluck is and how thaksin has everyone in his pockets.

You might as well blame the reds for the earthquake up north!

Having my fruitcake now very nutty!

[LivinLOS]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

As discussed yesterday this will be abused by the PTP ,back to vote buying, intimidation, no different to an election, so that the out come might not be the correct out come , this has already been thought of, why do you think the PTP support such an idea.

Because clearly they have the backing of the majority !!!

Why wouldnt anyone accept a reform proposal that was based on a referendum if they didnt fear the fact they are only a minority voice.

Suthep can say hes the voice of the mass of the people, OK then, lets see..

[LivinLOS]

Go away with your tiresome fake "neutral PMs" and have elections.

So you want another fake pm like YL. That is not the answer either simply because they will bring the country to ruin.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The people get to choose that or not.. That is the very essence of the process.

The ruin is brought about because one side cannot accept they no longer have enough power.. 5 elections in a row says it clearly.

[LivinLOS]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP needs to give up their stronghold in the North and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You mean like the yellow blockading a concert on Phuket because a red supporter might play there.. Or another time a Red leaning comedian..

The people of the north east genuinely want this government.. To change that the Dems need to come up with some campaign promises like free heathcare, farm subsidies, raised minimum wage, etc etc.. Instead they have fought those policies at every stage and supported the views of a minority urban population at the expense of the poor.

[Scamper]

Although this editorial centers on two men, it is actually about neither. It has always been about Thaksin. Thaksin has been the focus of this great political divide. Jatuporn wants Thaksin, Suthep doesn't - that is true. But to be sure, the common denominator is Thaksin. Without Thaksin, the UDD would never have formed, and without Thaksin the UDD would crumple, or at least splinter into factions controlled by various competing " leaders ". Without Thaksin, the PDRC would never have been formed either. Thaksin has been the glue that has held the PDRC together. Thaksin is what brings them to the streets. So this entire drama - that has gone on for years - really and truly is predicated on whether Thaksin can be eased out of process or not. The area that this editorial concentrates on is - what if neither side prevails - what then ? What then is actually what is happening now - a stalemate.

The courts and their cases, the NACC and its investigation, the Senate and its responsibilities, and all those who are actively engaged in discussions and consensus-building - all those should continue. The path to change is achieved through talking. That door must always be open.

[noitom]

And the Thai press continues to beat Suthep's drum and divert its readership from the real issue.

[thesetat2013]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP needs to give up their stronghold in the North and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You mean like the yellow blockading a concert on Phuket because a red supporter might play there.. Or another time a Red leaning comedian..

The people of the north east genuinely want this government.. To change that the Dems need to come up with some campaign promises like free heathcare, farm subsidies, raised minimum wage, etc etc.. Instead they have fought those policies at every stage and supported the views of a minority urban population at the expense of the poor.

Yes and the singers in the north being forced to cancel and the PDRC rally and Reds chasing away politicians who want to talk to their people but are not with the PTP. If the people dont hear what others have to offer to help all the people then no election is free and fair

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Dr Bruce]

Neither of these two should be involved, one should be in Surat--the other in jail, abusing bail conditions.

1, The PTP elected government failed miserably in ruling democratically, they abused power and tried to bend the law to suit Thaksin,( amnesty) The amnesty bill had more support before it was changed to include one man, the level of hate foccused on Taksin is extreme to say the least.

2, They got elected through the system, but with the flagrant abuse of Thai peoples money etc they find themselves in this situation. They got elected for the 5th time, people know there is some corruption but they keep on voting for Taksin parties.

3, No one in their right mind would consider elections to include any of the officials of PTP, why I said this is because you are in government as an MP you can still object to what your own government are doing, these MPs then are decent MPs. I do not understand this point, are you saying that anybody who has been associated with the PTP cannot be voted for or are you saying that some MPs are good and should be allowed to stand?

4, Because of all the anger and demonstrations connected to a self destructed government, who think they are entitled to cling to power --and it's not for good conduct, It is for what ?? or better for who??? It is for the better of Thai democracy that the elected government be allowed to stand. If they are really not good for the Thai people they will be voted out in favour of a better government.

5 To put an end for any cheating party in the future, Mega laws have to be introduced to penalize any person, who is guilty of corruption. I agree completely, corruption is a cancer that is holding thailand back. But we have the problem that there does not seem to be a method in place to deal with the decades of corruption that are clogging up the (very slow) court system. I feel that we need to draw a line at some past date and then go after any new corruption quickely and fairly. but choosing that date will cause all sorts of problems.

6 Any MP who has any police record or a.n. other shall not be eligible for election. This could be a problem unless you take my previous point, if the people feel that the courts are biased or if the courts are really biased you could have many people who cannot stand because of spurious charges laid before the courts just to limit the opposition.

7, This is the most important item. The police to be re-vamped to serve the pubic not themselves. Agreed

I still do expect to be shouted down from the Pro gov posters, as these 7 points will not suit their rhetoric.

[thesetat2013]

Go away with your tiresome fake "neutral PMs" and have elections.

So you want another fake pm like YL. That is not the answer either simply because they will bring the country to ruin.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The people get to choose that or not.. That is the very essence of the process.

The ruin is brought about because one side cannot accept they no longer have enough power.. 5 elections in a row says it clearly.

You are so wrong it is not even funny anymore. The ruin is brought by corrupt elections by corrupt politicians trying to look good with their populist corrupt schemes. Also elections are only the beginning to democracy with which does not apply here when you have strongholds that deny other parties access to their people. Also it doesnt apply when you have politicians who ignore and abuse the laws made for everyone

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ikke]

Has anyone noticed that the nation just keeps rewriting the same story over and over again!

Not just this story either.

The headlines might be different but the stories are basically rehashes of previous stories.

Then the posters get on here and just churn out the same lines day after day!

Come up with something different for change.

The nation just seems to like stoking the fires!

This seems to sum up you to a tee. you are a joke man. fancy coming out with this (even if it was true) you are a photo copy of them.

My post #11 gives some points that are never answered by you in a direct way, hence the comments here.

3 Posts later and you get already desperate that no one is answering your ridiculous 7 points.

You might try not to post BS and come with something different as TSP post here

[Just1Voice]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP needs to give up their stronghold in the North and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP DEMS needs to give up their stronghold in the North South and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[billd766]

Has anyone noticed that the nation just keeps rewriting the same story over and over again!

Not just this story either.

The headlines might be different but the stories are basically rehashes of previous stories.

Then the posters get on here and just churn out the same lines day after day!

Come up with something different for change.

The nation just seems to like stoking the fires!

Easy answer for you then would be not to read the Nation newspaper.

[billd766]

Go away with your tiresome fake "neutral PMs" and have elections.

So you want another fake pm like YL. That is not the answer either simply because they will bring the country to ruin.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The people get to choose that or not.. That is the very essence of the process.

The ruin is brought about because one side cannot accept they no longer have enough power.. 5 elections in a row says it clearly.

3 elections where the PM has been banned.

2 electionswhere the party has been disbanded and who knows about the PTP yet.

No transparency

Large number of civilians murdered and few arrests.

Yes, that says it clearly enough to me.

[billd766]

I believe the easier path is to have a national referendum as suggested by the reds, see what the Thai public wants and then move towards that. All parties must agree with what the majority wants as there will be no end to this if it continues. There is no winner but the ordinary workers are the biggest losers as tourist will get less and foreign countries start to pull out from thailand

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP needs to give up their stronghold in the North and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Before a national referendem is implemented and before an election is started the PTP DEMS needs to give up their stronghold in the North South and allow other parties to talk to the people there. Until this is done no election will be free and fair.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Actualy nobody has stopped the PTP from campaigning in the South, ever.

[Dogmatix]

Jatuporn has meanwhile vowed to shed blood in defence of democracy,...

So why are Jatuporn and his paymasters so afraid of allowing elected provincial governors and scrapping the kamnans and village headmen appointed by the Interior Ministry in Bangkok in favour of giving power to the elected tambon councils that have existed since the 90s? There is huge wastage from running the two parallel system and nothing gets done for the benefit of villagers.

If these people really love democracy, as they claim, they would be all for that type of reform and should be leading the way on it. But they just want to cling to centralised power and grab as much as they can from the huge central budget and stuff the villagers. Well, why should they care about them? They are just doltish peasants and not even Chinese.

[Dogmatix]

Although this editorial centers on two men, it is actually about neither. It has always been about Thaksin. Thaksin has been the focus of this great political divide. Jatuporn wants Thaksin, Suthep doesn't - that is true. But to be sure, the common denominator is Thaksin. Without Thaksin, the UDD would never have formed, and without Thaksin the UDD would crumple, or at least splinter into factions controlled by various competing " leaders ". Without Thaksin, the PDRC would never have been formed either. Thaksin has been the glue that has held the PDRC together. Thaksin is what brings them to the streets. So this entire drama - that has gone on for years - really and truly is predicated on whether Thaksin can be eased out of process or not. The area that this editorial concentrates on is - what if neither side prevails - what then ? What then is actually what is happening now - a stalemate.

The courts and their cases, the NACC and its investigation, the Senate and its responsibilities, and all those who are actively engaged in discussions and consensus-building - all those should continue. The path to change is achieved through talking. That door must always be open.

Thaksin will never give up while he is still alive and compus mentis. By continuing the fight he has only upside and no downside. By giving up he would lose the massive income stream he gets from controlling the government and would have to accept never going home. His downside is limited because he doesn't even care enough about the risk of family members like Yingluck in Thailand to avoid putting her in great danger - now she will most probably have to join him in Dubai. He certainly doesn't care if he destroys the economy or pushes worthless Thai peasants to suicide.

That is why weakling Thai compromise solutions don't work, e.g. not removing Yingluck's entire cabinet as was proscribed by the Constitution, or only confiscating half his wealth which meant he was not punished, just lost proceeds of his theft. Compromises just ensure he stays in the game and comes back more rabid than before. The only way to deal with him is to always take the strongest approach possible and give him no quarter at all. Then he might show some respect.