CharlesHH Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I know about, and have held the Thailand permissions to work with the work permit and appropriate visa for that. HOWEVER, what if a person lives full time in Thailand and works only on the Internet, gets paid outside of Thailand, and never presents a threat of taking away a Thai job??? 1. Has a retirement visa? 2. Has some other visa? 3. Holds the Thailand Elite card membership?? An example would be a person living full time in Thailand legally and gets paid in America* for consulting only via the Internet and from companies totally outside Thailand. The consultation is created in Thailand but only in digital Internet form and is only delivered to clients outside Thailand??? Another example is a writer who lives in Thailand full time and legally and writes a book while in Thailand. Writer sells his book to an American publisher and gets paid* only in America???? Must such people have to have a Thailand work permit??? *Paid totally ONLY into an American bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post GinBoy2 Posted May 18, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted May 18, 2014 If you need to ask this, all I can say is I wouldn't want to be one of your consulting clients 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 The non-depriving any Thai citizen of a job is a straw man.The Thai government has a priority to strengthen its online services sector. If persons are allowed to setup shop on the fly regardless of where the client, server, or payment are located and work from within Thailand, it provides a dis-incentive to those who are otherwise willing to make the prescribed investments in similar ventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piccadilly Circus Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 One cannot afford to give up eating for fear of choking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 In fact, I have never found that statement of taking a job away from a Thai to be relevant. Don't tell me u can't find a manager in Thailand to do the farangs job if u really had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 (edited) Don't quote me, as I don't know, but it would appear to me that the work permit is relevant only to the country you are paying tax to. In the cases above, your taxes are paid to the US, so for all intents and purposes, your work/business was conducted in the US. A lawyer or tax consultant could probably correct me.....or a layman, for that matter. It may be seen as a Starbucks/Yahoo type tax dodge, and thus puts my argument in much doubt. Edited May 18, 2014 by Seastallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medisasean Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 You have to find a job to get a visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post CharlieH Posted May 19, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too. When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa ! It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials. You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor. YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD ! How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working! DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai. And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next ! Edited May 19, 2014 by CharlieH 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddWeston Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too. When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa ! It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials. You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor. YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD ! How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working! DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai. And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next ! CharlieH thank you I hope others appreciate your post as it's spot on. *Should probably be pinned and or save a copy for the next time the topic comes up, which it will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pkl Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 If you stay or live within the borders of Thailand and you work, you will need a work permit. It makes no difference if you work online or offline, you'll need a work permit. It makes no difference if you work for a client or employer who is outside of Thailand, you will need a work permit. It makes no difference what visa you have or where you are from, you need a work permit. If you work, you need a work permit. It's that simple. And btw, work has nothing to do with money, either. So even if you work without a pay, it is still work, and you will still need a work permit. For example, if you give out lessons in English or yoga for free, it is still work, and you will still need a work permit. If you are building yourself a sailboat in your private property, that can be (and has been) considered as working. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pxlgirl Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 but in order to get a work permit, you first need a business visa tied to it, which requires a company in Thailand that would employ you and meets all requirements to do so. So how would someone working "over the internet" be able even to obtain a business visa, much less a work permit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satcommlee Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 As long as the money comes from outside Thailand, you are unlikely to run into any problems.. There must be 1000's doing exactly the same thing, you never hear of anyone being caught.. I'd be more worried about where I pay Tax to be honest.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouniF Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 but in order to get a work permit, you first need a business visa tied to it, which requires a company in Thailand that would employ you and meets all requirements to do so. So how would someone working "over the internet" be able even to obtain a business visa, much less a work permit? You have basically two options. 1) Establish a company to Thailand or buy an empty company. Get it meet the requirements in order to use it to sponsor a business visa and work permit. Then use it to sponsor yourself a business visa and work permit. 2) Find a Thai company that offers a service in which they hire you and sponsor your visa and work permit, in exchange of you paying them money. In other words, you'll sign a work contract with the company in which the company hires you for one year at a pay of 50.000 baht (which is the minimum for farang workers), and you'll sign another contract with the company in which you agree to pay the company 50.000 baht + their fee for this service every month. So the question is really whether you want to save money or time. If you want to save money, you go with the first option and spend a lot of time figuring out how the visa and work permit systems work. If you want to save time, you go with option two and pay. I personally spent too much time with the option number one and after realizing I have better things to do with my time, I went with the second option. Smooth as silk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouniF Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 As long as the money comes from outside Thailand, you are unlikely to run into any problems.. There must be 1000's doing exactly the same thing, you never hear of anyone being caught.. I'd be more worried about where I pay Tax to be honest.. Yeah, and there was no problems in living in Thailand with tourist visas and border runs. 1000's of people were doing that and no problem. Until all that changed just like that. Same thing will most likely happen about all these 'digital nomads' who live in Thailand to work online without any work permits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 As long as the money comes from outside Thailand, you are unlikely to run into any problems.. There must be 1000's doing exactly the same thing, you never hear of anyone being caught.. I'd be more worried about where I pay Tax to be honest.. If you do as above and are in Thailand via a Tourist Visa you have signed a declaration that purpose of visit is solely for pleasure and that you will not engage in any profession or occupation which declaration then be would be false. If you are to be 'caught' it would be more likely in questioning to the declaration at a point of entry rather than a raid on your shared workspace with the espresso bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pxlgirl Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 1) Establish a company to Thailand or buy an empty company. Get it meet the requirements in order to use it to sponsor a business visa and work permit. Then use it to sponsor yourself a business visa and work permit. to meed those requirements might be a hard one. Apart from red tape, the ownership has to be shared with a Thai national (as we know such things can go wrong), and you will need to hire a minimum of 4 thai workers in order to get a work permit. Many of those who work in IT related fields mostly work on their own, they neither need an office nor staff. Also, the income isn't always steady. It would be really good if there was a work permit for freelancers, ofc they have to have a degree in the field they work and some amount of investment money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 1) Establish a company to Thailand or buy an empty company. Get it meet the requirements in order to use it to sponsor a business visa and work permit. Then use it to sponsor yourself a business visa and work permit. to meed those requirements might be a hard one. Apart from red tape, the ownership has to be shared with a Thai national (as we know such things can go wrong), and you will need to hire a minimum of 4 thai workers in order to get a work permit. Many of those who work in IT related fields mostly work on their own, they neither need an office nor staff. Also, the income isn't always steady. It would be really good if there was a work permit for freelancers, ofc they have to have a degree in the field they work and some amount of investment money. So how does having a freelancers permit contribute to the Thailand policy goals of enhancing the computer and computer services sector -- it may actually serve as disincentive to those who might be otherwise willing to make such investment. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pxlgirl Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 So how does having a freelancers permit contribute to the Thailand policy goals of enhancing the computer and computer services sector -- it may actually serve as disincentive to those who might be otherwise willing to make such investment. Well, with a freelancers work permit, one would pay taxes in Thailand, that would be a valid contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) So how does having a freelancers permit contribute to the Thailand policy goals of enhancing the computer and computer services sector -- it may actually serve as disincentive to those who might be otherwise willing to make such investment. Well, with a freelancers work permit, one would pay taxes in Thailand, that would be a valid contribution. Pay taxes on what if all monies are paid and received ex-Thailand as in the OP. Still it does not address the issue that a freelancer does nothing to increase the industry in Thailand and may discourage those who might be making investment in a similar venue -- kinda like in the USA with those who invest in restaurants and those who park a meal truck in the parking lot next to the restaurant. Edited May 19, 2014 by JLCrab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouniF Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 1) Establish a company to Thailand or buy an empty company. Get it meet the requirements in order to use it to sponsor a business visa and work permit. Then use it to sponsor yourself a business visa and work permit. to meed those requirements might be a hard one. Apart from red tape, the ownership has to be shared with a Thai national (as we know such things can go wrong), and you will need to hire a minimum of 4 thai workers in order to get a work permit. Many of those who work in IT related fields mostly work on their own, they neither need an office nor staff. Also, the income isn't always steady. It would be really good if there was a work permit for freelancers, ofc they have to have a degree in the field they work and some amount of investment money. I know. But these are the rules and if you want to play by the rules, this is it. Of course, some kind of work permit system for freelance workers could happen but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that. In the meantime, you can either do as most others seem to do (i.e. work illegally) and wait when the big busts comes, or put in the effort to obtain the correct visa and work permit and do things the right way. Everything you do in life comes with a risk and possible reward, it's up to you to think what you want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadJoe Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 What Chalie H said. It 100% qualifies as working in Thailand, but many people ignore this fact and work at home here and stay on whatever visa they can get. This is dangerous though because one call to immigration or labour and you can get a surprise visit at home, be arrested and deported. Internet working I am a commodity trader and use the Internet for my work. My financial dealings are conducted in Australia. I am thinking of coming to Thailand to stay for short time – about three months. My question is, can I still do my trading via the Internet in Thailand without breaking any laws? Theoretically, I shan't be working in Thailand. -Travelling Trader, Perth, Western Australia “To do any work in Thailand you must either set up a company or partnership and apply for a work prmit, or find someone willing to employ you and to apply for a work permit for you. Otherwise you will be working illegally.We suggest that you do not work during your three-month stay in Phuket.” Phuket Provincial Employment Services Office - Surce: http://legacy.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp Another topic where it is pretty well covered. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/458760-work-permit-for-online-working/ Mods will be along soon to move this to the visa/WP section and the experts there will say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too. When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa ! It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials. You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor. YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD ! How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working! DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai. And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next ! Very well said, CharlieH. The OP should read this. And then read it again. And again. And if he has any questions, shut the <deleted> up and read it again. But mark my words, some knob will come up with even more hypothetical situations when he knows darn well what the answer is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB87 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 How could anyone possibly find out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadJoe Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 How could anyone possibly find out? Loose lips sink ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 How could anyone possibly find out? Loose lips sink ships. Immigration could start asking more questions on tourist visas at entry point as to how you are supporting yourself as you declared on your tourist visa entry that the purpose of your visit to the Kingdom is for pleasure and not to engage in any profession or occupation -- and stamp your passport that on your next entry better have some real proof to the former and not the latter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JouniF Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 How could anyone possibly find out? All it takes it to ask what is the source of the funds people use to live in Thailand. Oh, you are getting money outside of Thailand? Well why would someone send you money if they are not your relatives and the money is not from your government (pension etc)? Or you are not getting money to Thailand but you are using your non-Thai ATM card to withdraw cash here, so where does the money come to your overseas bank account then? Sure, some people have savings they can use to really stay in another country for a long time without any work, but my gut feeling is that these people are very few and far between, and the day the immigration starts to ask these questions, it's pretty much game over for the freelancers who live and work in this country without a work permit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChopperRay Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 Do you need a work permit to grow plants by Hydroponces as a Hobby Not for Resale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefan Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 You do not need a work permit to trade your OWN stocks and investments. You do also not need one as a member of an investment club (people share ideas agreeing on trades and even have common account) or if you are doing hobby plants, painting or what not. That said: the law is clear: no work. That CAN be interpreted so strict that putting a plaster on yourself (or God forbid, somebody else!) could be considered "work" as could building a fence at your house (or God forbid, helping your friend doing so!), growing own veggies, watering your flowers or what not. I just realized that by breathing I am technically working....stealing the work of a (Thai!) nurse and a respirator.... Am holding my breath typing this... But wait; is typing this not giving advise and information which surely must be considered work!? (Moderator please delete - but only if you have a WP as obviously otherwise you can not!). Cheers! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishJohn Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 This is just another one of those many Thai laws which is designed so that they can pretty much get you for anything if they ever decide to enforce it. Just reading an email from a work colleague would make you guilty. If they made a work permit easier to get, I'm sure a lot more people would be happy do it and Thailand would get the tax. I constantly get the impression they don't actually want any foreigners to stay here once the holiday money has been spent ... Does anyone know of any examples where someone actually got done for this ?. I mean where someone worked purely on a computer inside their home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 19, 2014 Share Posted May 19, 2014 but in order to get a work permit, you first need a business visa tied to it, which requires a company in Thailand that would employ you and meets all requirements to do so. So how would someone working "over the internet" be able even to obtain a business visa, much less a work permit? You have basically two options. 1) Establish a company to Thailand or buy an empty company. Get it meet the requirements in order to use it to sponsor a business visa and work permit. Then use it to sponsor yourself a business visa and work permit. 2) Find a Thai company that offers a service in which they hire you and sponsor your visa and work permit, in exchange of you paying them money. In other words, you'll sign a work contract with the company in which the company hires you for one year at a pay of 50.000 baht (which is the minimum for farang workers), and you'll sign another contract with the company in which you agree to pay the company 50.000 baht + their fee for this service every month. So the question is really whether you want to save money or time. If you want to save money, you go with the first option and spend a lot of time figuring out how the visa and work permit systems work. If you want to save time, you go with option two and pay. I personally spent too much time with the option number one and after realizing I have better things to do with my time, I went with the second option. Smooth as silk. That would still be illegal, if company x gets paid to make a work permit it will state the reason and type of work and address it is to be carried out A work permit is specific to the job so buying a work permit and then working at your own business will still be illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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