Work Permit: What about living in Thailand but working via Internet elsewhere?

[GAZZPA]

If you are working in Thailand, paid or unpaid you need a work permit absolutely no doubt.

Also, if you are setting up your company in Thailand you need to go through the process of company set up (which means employing Thai people and capital)

My advice is don't even think about doing anything outside of the law, the consequences are severe, it's just not worth it.

So, clearly write out your business model, how it works, how you will be paid, where your taxes will be paid and go and see someone to get the correct advice on what you need in Thailand to operate legally.

Anything else will be foolish and you will only have yourself to blame when / if you face the wraith of the Thai legal system.

[YeaBiGgiEs]

My suggestion (NOT ADVICE), don't tell your business to anyone. Nobody needs to know what you do, how you do it because that just opens more doors and governments to want a piece of YOUR pie.

Honesty is NOT always the best policy.

If Thailand is the paradise that you want to live in then YES, find another form of visa like an ED visa or something, kick back and enjoy life.

I'm in the SAME SITUATION AS YOU!

Whether its openning a bank account, getting post pay mobile contract or whatever, they all want/require a work permit/visa and recite it like robots without ever stopping for a minute and thinking that maybe there are some people that fall outside the norm. Maybe I'm a young guy, trust fund baby, filthy rich and will never work a day in my life, yet too young for retirement visa so what do we do? We become one of these dishonest people doing visa runs, lieing or what not. OH unless we succumb to the ELITE CARD which was created why? Status? Delusions of Grandeur? OR is it that Thailand also recognizes that WE exist and figured well if they don't need to work and we don't have a legitimate visa that they can get to remain in Thailand, lets capitalize off those people and create this CARD so they can bypass the inconveniences of our immigration system we created.

You know, I read these forums, various news sources, watch other news/media outlets and if I were to sum it all up basically it al comes down to this:

MONEY!

Hell if you just watch the CI Channel (44) you will see shows like AUSTRALIA CUSTOMS/IMMIGRATION, PARKING WARS etc. From parking tickets to Immigration, governments have created such an immaculate system that it functions and generates revenue through the creation of "laws" that we truly don't need in the first place. However we are convinced that such has been created for the overal "safety" and "security". Governments instill fear and practically brainwash all of us to believe their cause.

Bottom Line is:

They don't want you to have money.

What money you do have, they want to know about it.

If you transfer, move, carry more than a certain amount ($10k), they want to know about it by requiring you or financial institutions to document it.

They don't want you to work, without knowing about it because they want their taxes.

They limit what you can bring into a country (alcohol, cigarettes) because they don't want you to profit through sales and they won't get their taxes.

If you don't declare something, you are fined.

The list goes on and all of those I mentioned have some "plausible" reason as to why the law/regulation was created; whether it be to monitor money laundering or possible funding of terrorirsts for the purpose of our safety or not taking a job away from a local Thai citizen or bringing in an illness/disease from an animal or restricted foods....

WHATEVER. Its all because of MONEY and the governments WANTS IT hand over fist every way they can get it from you. Get this, they consider it a loss/theft by assessing the value of what they COULD HAVE collected or feel entitled too and have created more laws/regulations to instill fear and aid in their justification and entitlement to YOUR MONEY

[ironbark]

If you are on a retirement visa you are not allowed to work, but you are required to have an income from your home country, as far as I am aware there are no conditions about how that income is derived ..... is this a contradiction in the rules Hmmmm!!!!!

BTW ,,, even if the same question or answer is raised by newbies multiple times I dont think it is necessary to criticise them or be condescending, We are all newbies at sometime and their questions are sincere and should be treated with respect.

Edited May 19, 2014 by ironbark

[JouniF]

You have basically two options.

1) Establish a company to Thailand or buy an empty company. Get it meet the requirements in order to use it to sponsor a business visa and work permit. Then use it to sponsor yourself a business visa and work permit.

2) Find a Thai company that offers a service in which they hire you and sponsor your visa and work permit, in exchange of you paying them money. In other words, you'll sign a work contract with the company in which the company hires you for one year at a pay of 50.000 baht (which is the minimum for farang workers), and you'll sign another contract with the company in which you agree to pay the company 50.000 baht + their fee for this service every month.

So the question is really whether you want to save money or time. If you want to save money, you go with the first option and spend a lot of time figuring out how the visa and work permit systems work. If you want to save time, you go with option two and pay.

I personally spent too much time with the option number one and after realizing I have better things to do with my time, I went with the second option. Smooth as silk.

That would still be illegal, if company x gets paid to make a work permit it will state the reason and type of work and address it is to be carried out

A work permit is specific to the job so buying a work permit and then working at your own business will still be illegal

The work permit will, of course, be tied to what you actually do. For example, if you work as a freelance graphics designer, the Thai company who hires you, hires you as a graphic designer and your work permit will state that. These companies are not selling work permits. They are providing the service of helping you to get a work permit. There is a very clear difference between these two concepts, the first would be very much illegal, second is not.

Edited May 19, 2014 by JouniF

[Soutpeel]

but in order to get a work permit, you first need a business visa tied to it, which requires a company in Thailand that would employ you and meets all requirements to do so. So how would someone working "over the internet" be able even to obtain a business visa, much less a work permit?

nope, you can apply for a work permit on some classes of "O" visa as well e.g. if your on a married visa, one doesn't need a Non-imm B

But to answer the OP's question...your working you need a WP...its a very simple answer...

[Soutpeel]

This is just another one of those many Thai laws which is designed so that they can pretty much get you for anything if they ever decide to enforce it. Just reading an email from a work colleague would make you guilty.

If they made a work permit easier to get, I'm sure a lot more people would be happy do it and Thailand would get the tax. I constantly get the impression they don't actually want any foreigners to stay here once the holiday money has been spent ...

Does anyone know of any examples where someone actually got done for this ?. I mean where someone worked purely on a computer inside their home.

Actually one suspects the rules are written to provide a great deal of discretion on the part of the DOL, which in some respects is a smart thing to do.

Getting a Thai WP is not hard I can assure you, after working in many countries over the last 30 years, Thailand is one of the easiest and don't really understand how they could make easier and not turn into a free for all.

[robblok]

This is just another one of those many Thai laws which is designed so that they can pretty much get you for anything if they ever decide to enforce it. Just reading an email from a work colleague would make you guilty.

If they made a work permit easier to get, I'm sure a lot more people would be happy do it and Thailand would get the tax. I constantly get the impression they don't actually want any foreigners to stay here once the holiday money has been spent ...

Does anyone know of any examples where someone actually got done for this ?. I mean where someone worked purely on a computer inside their home.

Actually one suspects the rules are written to provide a great deal of discretion on the part of the DOL, which in some respects is a smart thing to do.

Getting a Thai WP is not hard I can assure you, after working in many countries over the last 30 years, Thailand is one of the easiest and don't really understand how they could make easier and not turn into a free for all.

It is hard for those people working on the internet. The problem is the 4 Thais you need to employ. Without that stupid rule Thailand would have a lot more tax income.

The 4 Thais you need to employ is where the I dont take work away from Thais.

Anyway its a personal choice if you want to risk it or not, better not make enemies of those who know what your doing or you are toast.

[TheRascal]

I'd be seriously interested in the 500thb version of the Elite Card, however there's a big difference between being able to afford it and to be able to accept throwing that money away should they choose to change the rules at a moment's notice. My guess is that there would be no refund or recourse should that happen.

[Toby Jugg]

How about the farang who serves on the committee of his or her condo building.

No reward. Damn hard work.

[mikecat]

The rule is clear, you cannot work in Thailand without a work permit, this includes volunteer work. If you are in Thailand and you log onto the internet for the purpose of conducting business for a company, whether it be in Thailand or outside, whether its for an income or as a volunteer, that constitutes work.

In regard to the earnings from that work if they are paid into an account outside of this country and stay their it is probably not regarded as taxable. However, if you then bring that income into the country to live, it could possibly be construed as taxable income. (Only guessing), who knows what would happen.

As far as never getting caught because you are working on the internet, they may even already know ( not likely but you never know). One day some bright spark will decide to launch a crackdown on internet work and if you are not highly protected you could well get caught in the net. Secondly, if you have upset someone who knows what you are doing they could spill the beans to the authorities. From my experience and from all I have read the Thais seem quite happy to let all sorts of scams and dodges go on and then all of a sudden they just decide enough is enough and have a crackdown.

Regarding the permit itself for online work, heaven knows what paperwork you would require.

[robblok]

The rule is clear, you cannot work in Thailand without a work permit, this includes volunteer work. If you are in Thailand and you log onto the internet for the purpose of conducting business for a company, whether it be in Thailand or outside, whether its for an income or as a volunteer, that constitutes work.

In regard to the earnings from that work if they are paid into an account outside of this country and stay their it is probably not regarded as taxable. However, if you then bring that income into the country to live, it could possibly be construed as taxable income. (Only guessing), who knows what would happen.

As far as never getting caught because you are working on the internet, they may even already know ( not likely but you never know). One day some bright spark will decide to launch a crackdown on internet work and if you are not highly protected you could well get caught in the net. Secondly, if you have upset someone who knows what you are doing they could spill the beans to the authorities. From my experience and from all I have read the Thais seem quite happy to let all sorts of scams and dodges go on and then all of a sudden they just decide enough is enough and have a crackdown.

Regarding the permit itself for online work, heaven knows what paperwork you would require.

Highly unlikely that people who work with a laptop at home and get paid into a paypal account and email in a language other as English get caught. If they cant get into your email or bank they cant get the proof that you have been working.

They can however deny you a visa next time and then your in a lot of trouble too, but making the work charge stick.. real hard unless they get into your email and bank account.. and that is easily preventable.

However if you been investigated it might well be that you loose your visa and cant get back in even if there was no proof.

[Soutpeel]

however there's a big difference between being able to afford it and to be able to accept throwing that money away should they choose to change the rules at a moment's notice. My guess is that there would be no refund or recourse should that happen.

the same thing could be said of marrying a Thai lady she takes all your money and divorces you....

One suspects the THB 500k TE card is would have been cheaper in most cases and less risk involved...

[TheRascal]

however there's a big difference between being able to afford it and to be able to accept throwing that money away should they choose to change the rules at a moment's notice. My guess is that there would be no refund or recourse should that happen.

the same thing could be said of marrying a Thai lady she takes all your money and divorces you....

One suspects the THB 500k TE card is would have been cheaper in most cases and less risk involved...

True that - but I won't be risking that one either

[Soutpeel]

This is just another one of those many Thai laws which is designed so that they can pretty much get you for anything if they ever decide to enforce it. Just reading an email from a work colleague would make you guilty.

If they made a work permit easier to get, I'm sure a lot more people would be happy do it and Thailand would get the tax. I constantly get the impression they don't actually want any foreigners to stay here once the holiday money has been spent ...

Does anyone know of any examples where someone actually got done for this ?. I mean where someone worked purely on a computer inside their home.

Actually one suspects the rules are written to provide a great deal of discretion on the part of the DOL, which in some respects is a smart thing to do.

Getting a Thai WP is not hard I can assure you, after working in many countries over the last 30 years, Thailand is one of the easiest and don't really understand how they could make easier and not turn into a free for all.

It is hard for those people working on the internet. The problem is the 4 Thais you need to employ. Without that stupid rule Thailand would have a lot more tax income.

The 4 Thais you need to employ is where the I dont take work away from Thais.

Anyway its a personal choice if you want to risk it or not, better not make enemies of those who know what your doing or you are toast.

A representative office of a foreign company doesn't need to employ 4 employee's I believe is can be sole employee and a WP can be issued, and your good for 5 years, but of course you need to remit THB 3.0 million in the first year and the balance of the THB 5.0 million that needs to come into country can be remitted over the balance of the years (if I remember the set process correctly)

[Soutpeel]

The rule is clear, you cannot work in Thailand without a work permit, this includes volunteer work. If you are in Thailand and you log onto the internet for the purpose of conducting business for a company, whether it be in Thailand or outside, whether its for an income or as a volunteer, that constitutes work.

In regard to the earnings from that work if they are paid into an account outside of this country and stay their it is probably not regarded as taxable. However, if you then bring that income into the country to live, it could possibly be construed as taxable income. (Only guessing), who knows what would happen.

As far as never getting caught because you are working on the internet, they may even already know ( not likely but you never know). One day some bright spark will decide to launch a crackdown on internet work and if you are not highly protected you could well get caught in the net. Secondly, if you have upset someone who knows what you are doing they could spill the beans to the authorities. From my experience and from all I have read the Thais seem quite happy to let all sorts of scams and dodges go on and then all of a sudden they just decide enough is enough and have a crackdown.

Regarding the permit itself for online work, heaven knows what paperwork you would require.

Highly unlikely that people who work with a laptop at home and get paid into a paypal account and email in a language other as English get caught. If they cant get into your email or bank they cant get the proof that you have been working.

They can however deny you a visa next time and then your in a lot of trouble too, but making the work charge stick.. real hard unless they get into your email and bank account.. and that is easily preventable.

However if you been investigated it might well be that you loose your visa and cant get back in even if there was no proof.

And one suspects this is the reason why they are focusing on the visa side of things at the border's...

[Beetlejuice]

The OP is trying to find yet another loop hole in the law to do business here without obtaining the correct permissions and work permits.

Here is the answer:

If the OP is resident in Thailand and operating his business from Thailand, whether online or otherwise, than he has to apply for a work permit. Having the income paid directly to an account abroad won`t wash I`m afraid.

.

[robblok]

The rule is clear, you cannot work in Thailand without a work permit, this includes volunteer work. If you are in Thailand and you log onto the internet for the purpose of conducting business for a company, whether it be in Thailand or outside, whether its for an income or as a volunteer, that constitutes work.

In regard to the earnings from that work if they are paid into an account outside of this country and stay their it is probably not regarded as taxable. However, if you then bring that income into the country to live, it could possibly be construed as taxable income. (Only guessing), who knows what would happen.

As far as never getting caught because you are working on the internet, they may even already know ( not likely but you never know). One day some bright spark will decide to launch a crackdown on internet work and if you are not highly protected you could well get caught in the net. Secondly, if you have upset someone who knows what you are doing they could spill the beans to the authorities. From my experience and from all I have read the Thais seem quite happy to let all sorts of scams and dodges go on and then all of a sudden they just decide enough is enough and have a crackdown.

Regarding the permit itself for online work, heaven knows what paperwork you would require.

Highly unlikely that people who work with a laptop at home and get paid into a paypal account and email in a language other as English get caught. If they cant get into your email or bank they cant get the proof that you have been working.

They can however deny you a visa next time and then your in a lot of trouble too, but making the work charge stick.. real hard unless they get into your email and bank account.. and that is easily preventable.

However if you been investigated it might well be that you loose your visa and cant get back in even if there was no proof.

And one suspects this is the reason why they are focusing on the visa side of things at the border's...

Quite possible as it would be real hard to prove the working part for those working online. Getting the proof they needed would be almost impossible. So they do it the other way around, quite smart actually.

[robblok]

This is just another one of those many Thai laws which is designed so that they can pretty much get you for anything if they ever decide to enforce it. Just reading an email from a work colleague would make you guilty.

If they made a work permit easier to get, I'm sure a lot more people would be happy do it and Thailand would get the tax. I constantly get the impression they don't actually want any foreigners to stay here once the holiday money has been spent ...

Does anyone know of any examples where someone actually got done for this ?. I mean where someone worked purely on a computer inside their home.

Actually one suspects the rules are written to provide a great deal of discretion on the part of the DOL, which in some respects is a smart thing to do.

Getting a Thai WP is not hard I can assure you, after working in many countries over the last 30 years, Thailand is one of the easiest and don't really understand how they could make easier and not turn into a free for all.

It is hard for those people working on the internet. The problem is the 4 Thais you need to employ. Without that stupid rule Thailand would have a lot more tax income.

The 4 Thais you need to employ is where the I dont take work away from Thais.

Anyway its a personal choice if you want to risk it or not, better not make enemies of those who know what your doing or you are toast.

A representative office of a foreign company doesn't need to employ 4 employee's I believe is can be sole employee and a WP can be issued, and your good for 5 years, but of course you need to remit THB 3.0 million in the first year and the balance of the THB 5.0 million that needs to come into country can be remitted over the balance of the years (if I remember the set process correctly)

That still leaves one big problem (especially with so much money on the balance sheet), would you put so much money in a company that you cant own 100% shares of. The 51% in Thai hands might liquidate the company of that money.

Not trying to be unhelpful here just showing some of the pitfalls. I know more then a few people working on the internet living here. Their problems are the amount of Thais for a work permit as its highly specialized work in often a foreign language so Thais can't even work there.

Then your option sounds quite nice (though 5 million is not peanuts in my book) and then not owning 100% shares makes it quite dangerous.

But anyway its the law.. and if you break it you must be ready to face the consequences if they appear.

[ggt]

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As long as the money comes from outside Thailand, you are unlikely to run into any problems.. There must be 1000's doing exactly the same thing, you never hear of anyone being caught.. I'd be more worried about where I pay Tax to be honest..

Did business online while living in Thailand...Internet only...no Thai transactions..."don't ask...don't tell"...do not talk about your business to friends and family...especially a Thai...only you...can keep from raising an issue with online commerce...

[Soutpeel]

The rule is clear, you cannot work in Thailand without a work permit, this includes volunteer work. If you are in Thailand and you log onto the internet for the purpose of conducting business for a company, whether it be in Thailand or outside, whether its for an income or as a volunteer, that constitutes work.

In regard to the earnings from that work if they are paid into an account outside of this country and stay their it is probably not regarded as taxable. However, if you then bring that income into the country to live, it could possibly be construed as taxable income. (Only guessing), who knows what would happen.

As far as never getting caught because you are working on the internet, they may even already know ( not likely but you never know). One day some bright spark will decide to launch a crackdown on internet work and if you are not highly protected you could well get caught in the net. Secondly, if you have upset someone who knows what you are doing they could spill the beans to the authorities. From my experience and from all I have read the Thais seem quite happy to let all sorts of scams and dodges go on and then all of a sudden they just decide enough is enough and have a crackdown.

Regarding the permit itself for online work, heaven knows what paperwork you would require.

Highly unlikely that people who work with a laptop at home and get paid into a paypal account and email in a language other as English get caught. If they cant get into your email or bank they cant get the proof that you have been working.

They can however deny you a visa next time and then your in a lot of trouble too, but making the work charge stick.. real hard unless they get into your email and bank account.. and that is easily preventable.

However if you been investigated it might well be that you loose your visa and cant get back in even if there was no proof.

And one suspects this is the reason why they are focusing on the visa side of things at the border's...

Quite possible as it would be real hard to prove the working part for those working online. Getting the proof they needed would be almost impossible. So they do it the other way around, quite smart actually.

Yeap....very hard to prove someone is actually working in this case to take the legal steps to get it into court, however at a border, they only need to suspect your working and not on the correct paperwork = denied entry to Thailand..=..result is same, they have stopped someone working illegally, actually it quite an elegant solution, don't need increased man power checking up on people in their "places of work" and investigating things and the guilty parties actually come to you...

[Stan7444]

These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too.

When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa !

It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials.

You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor.

YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD !

How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working!

DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai.

And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next !

The above is rant and rave and jiberish. If this were true, then anyone coming into Thailand thru the airport or elsewhere, who are contacting their offices and transacting business on their PCs from within the Kingdom, would all be guilty of Work Permit violations and be put in jail. Nonsense.

In truth, having checked with many attorneys in Thailand, since I have this same type of business, you can transact any type of business activity in this country "as long as your transaction is non-Thailand located and there is NO money being earned in Thailand". Period.

People "technically" cannot transact any business, nor have business related discussions, even if they are "non-paid" in Thailand, such as lecturing at a university (which I personally think would be a benefit to this country for someone to be able to so do), and even inclusive of attending Chamber of Commerce and other networking events, including speaking at conferences (which I do frequently for the benefit of the Thai people). So find me guilty of trying to help people, for free, with my knowledge. However, at the events I attend, we usually have an "umbrella" with many Thai officials present who will stop bad things from occuring.

[Doc46]

These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too.

When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa !

It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials.

You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor.

YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD !

How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working!

DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai.

And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next !

Hey who stepped on your bloody toes ,,This is about need to know,, Nobody needs to know that you do a bit on the net.

[Soutpeel]

In truth, having checked with many attorneys in Thailand, since I have this same type of business, you can transact any type of business activity in this country "as long as your transaction is non-Thailand located and there is NO money being earned in Thailand". Period.

People "technically" cannot transact any business, nor have business related discussions, even if they are "non-paid" in Thailand, such as lecturing at a university (which I personally think would be a benefit to this country for someone to be able to so do), and even inclusive of attending Chamber of Commerce and other networking events, including speaking at conferences (which I do frequently for the benefit of the Thai people). So find me guilty of trying to help people, for free, with my knowledge. However, at the events I attend, we usually have an "umbrella" with many Thai officials present who will stop bad things from occuring.

So one suspects said "many attorneys", gave you a letter on their official letterhead which states:

"Stan7444"...passport number XXXXXX can run his on-line business from Thailand without a WP provided the transaction is non-Thailand located and no money is being earned in Thailand.

So say we

Somchai

Attorney at Law

Baby A-Go-Go Legal Company

The Fact is lawyers can offer an opinion, and that's what they have told you AN OPINION, they THINK its ok...they are not stating fact of law, as the labour act makes no such statement.

From the Ministry of Labour website:

1. Definition

"Alien" means a natural person who is not of Thai nationality; " Work " means to engage in work by

exerting energy or using knowledge whether or not in consideration of wages or other benefits.

To quote another thread:

Internet working

I am a commodity trader and use the Internet for my work. My financial dealings are conducted in Australia. I am thinking of coming to Thailand to stay for short time – about three months. My question is, can I still do my trading via the Internet in Thailand without breaking any laws? Theoretically, I shan't be working in Thailand.

-Travelling Trader, Perth, Western Australia

“To do any work in Thailand you must either set up a company or partnership and apply for a work prmit, or find someone willing to employ you and to apply for a work permit for you. Otherwise you will be working illegally.

We suggest that you do not work during your three-month stay in Phuket.”

Phuket Provincial Employment Services Office -

So it seems "Phuket Provincial Employment Services Office at least ...disagrees with your "many attorneys"....

Edited May 19, 2014 by Soutpeel

[TheRascal]

These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too.

When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa !

It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials.

You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor.

YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD !

How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working!

DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai.

And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next !

The above is rant and rave and jiberish. If this were true, then anyone coming into Thailand thru the airport or elsewhere, who are contacting their offices and transacting business on their PCs from within the Kingdom, would all be guilty of Work Permit violations and be put in jail. Nonsense.

In truth, having checked with many attorneys in Thailand, since I have this same type of business, you can transact any type of business activity in this country "as long as your transaction is non-Thailand located and there is NO money being earned in Thailand". Period.

People "technically" cannot transact any business, nor have business related discussions, even if they are "non-paid" in Thailand, such as lecturing at a university (which I personally think would be a benefit to this country for someone to be able to so do), and even inclusive of attending Chamber of Commerce and other networking events, including speaking at conferences (which I do frequently for the benefit of the Thai people). So find me guilty of trying to help people, for free, with my knowledge. However, at the events I attend, we usually have an "umbrella" with many Thai officials present who will stop bad things from occuring.

This is interesting Stan - is this correct, not questioning your knowledge just heard so much to the contrary.

Shame if it's true as I've turned down some juicy and easy contracts I could have done remotely as I thought it was against the law.

[Soutpeel]

People "technically" cannot transact any business, nor have business related discussions, even if they are "non-paid" in Thailand, such as lecturing at a university (which I personally think would be a benefit to this country for someone to be able to so do), and even inclusive of attending Chamber of Commerce and other networking events, including speaking at conferences (which I do frequently for the benefit of the Thai people). So find me guilty of trying to help people, for free, with my knowledge. However, at the events I attend, we usually have an "umbrella" with many Thai officials present who will stop bad things from occuring.

what's stopping you getting a temporary WP organized then ?...ad hoc lecturing, speaking at conferences etc. are reasons a temp WP can be issued...

[Soutpeel]

These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too.

When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa !

It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials.

You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor.

YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD !

How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working!

DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai.

And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next !

The above is rant and rave and jiberish. If this were true, then anyone coming into Thailand thru the airport or elsewhere, who are contacting their offices and transacting business on their PCs from within the Kingdom, would all be guilty of Work Permit violations and be put in jail. Nonsense.

In truth, having checked with many attorneys in Thailand, since I have this same type of business, you can transact any type of business activity in this country "as long as your transaction is non-Thailand located and there is NO money being earned in Thailand". Period.

People "technically" cannot transact any business, nor have business related discussions, even if they are "non-paid" in Thailand, such as lecturing at a university (which I personally think would be a benefit to this country for someone to be able to so do), and even inclusive of attending Chamber of Commerce and other networking events, including speaking at conferences (which I do frequently for the benefit of the Thai people). So find me guilty of trying to help people, for free, with my knowledge. However, at the events I attend, we usually have an "umbrella" with many Thai officials present who will stop bad things from occuring.

This is interesting Stan - is this correct, not questioning your knowledge just heard so much to the contrary.

Shame if it's true as I've turned down some juicy and easy contracts I could have done remotely as I thought it was against the law.

Its not true...

[Water Buffalo]

When is the last time someone was refused entry because they were under investigation?

Edited May 19, 2014 by Water Buffalo

[mikecat]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The rule is clear, you cannot work in Thailand without a work permit, this includes volunteer work. If you are in Thailand and you log onto the internet for the purpose of conducting business for a company, whether it be in Thailand or outside, whether its for an income or as a volunteer, that constitutes work.

In regard to the earnings from that work if they are paid into an account outside of this country and stay their it is probably not regarded as taxable. However, if you then bring that income into the country to live, it could possibly be construed as taxable income. (Only guessing), who knows what would happen.

As far as never getting caught because you are working on the internet, they may even already know ( not likely but you never know). One day some bright spark will decide to launch a crackdown on internet work and if you are not highly protected you could well get caught in the net. Secondly, if you have upset someone who knows what you are doing they could spill the beans to the authorities. From my experience and from all I have read the Thais seem quite happy to let all sorts of scams and dodges go on and then all of a sudden they just decide enough is enough and have a crackdown.

Regarding the permit itself for online work, heaven knows what paperwork you would require.

Highly unlikely that people who work with a laptop at home and get paid into a paypal account and email in a language other as English get caught. If they cant get into your email or bank they cant get the proof that you have been working.

They can however deny you a visa next time and then your in a lot of trouble too, but making the work charge stick.. real hard unless they get into your email and bank account.. and that is easily preventable.

However if you been investigated it might well be that you loose your visa and cant get back in even if there was no proof.

And one suspects this is the reason why they are focusing on the visa side of things at the border's... alt=thumbsup.gif>

Quite possible as it would be real hard to prove the working part for those working online. Getting the proof they needed would be almost impossible. So they do it the other way around, quite smart actually.

Well yes I would have to agree with you both there, highly unlikely but not impossible. I just think people should put in a bit of work, get the right visa and have done with it. I understand that with some people finances are an issue in regard to getting long term visas but border hops and forever looking for loop holes is not a viable option in the long term either.

[jsflynn603]

In the meantime, you can either do as most others seem to do (i.e. work illegally) and wait when the big busts comes, or put in the effort to obtain the correct visa and work permit and do things the right way. Everything you do in life comes with a risk and possible reward, it's up to you to think what you want to do.

Interesting question. If you work as a consultant, for instance writing policy/procedures for hire, how could anyone possibly ever really even know? Perhaps find a friend in your home country or a service that receives email, then encrypts it and sends it to you and perhaps the reverse. Send any documents out encrypted, possibly to a friend/family member to be unencrypted and sent to the client. If you have an address, say in the US, then the same person could send hard copy stuff.

At this level it gets sort of strange I think. If any country wants to make it so difficult that simply doing it off radar is the only way to do it then such is life--the country loses. If a country made it easier then people would follow the laws.

And what of a person who decides to write a novel? She settles down in Thailand, writes a novel that may never sell or may make millions. Is writing a novel that might be sold a job?

[Beetlejuice]

These type of posts are becoming more pathetic by the day ! Repetative too.

When are these guys going to stop looking for loopholes and "what ifs". Its not a freakin chess game and the smartest one wins a visa !

It actually makes little to no difference what you think the law states either. The only thing that matters is the individual who is imposing said law and how he or she intereprets it, nothing more. If you dont speak fluent Thai you will just be a jibbering monkey to the officials.

You can have all the logical arguments under the sun, but when policemman somchai rolls up he aint gonna give a damn what you got to say, its off to jail and sort it out later. Resist , and you 'll probably face the working end of a 45 or baton. You can think of all your amazing logical arguments and back romm legal points whilst eating you fish head soup and sleeping on a concrete floor.

YOU NEED A PERMIT TO DO ANY TYPE OF WORK IN THAILAND, EVEN VOLUNTEERING FOR NO FINANCIAL REWARD !

How much clearer do you want it ! Touch a keyboard, use the internet to communicate for said work irrespective of its location or payment and you are working!

DONT ARGUE WITH ME ABOUT IT, wait for the fish head soup, then talk to the judge, if you think he'll listen assuming you speak adequate Thai.

And yes there are many who do do it, yes there are many who dont get caught, BUT if you get reported by someone you piss of or gets jealous........you know what comes next !

The above is rant and rave and jiberish. If this were true, then anyone coming into Thailand thru the airport or elsewhere, who are contacting their offices and transacting business on their PCs from within the Kingdom, would all be guilty of Work Permit violations and be put in jail. Nonsense.

In truth, having checked with many attorneys in Thailand, since I have this same type of business, you can transact any type of business activity in this country "as long as your transaction is non-Thailand located and there is NO money being earned in Thailand". Period.

People "technically" cannot transact any business, nor have business related discussions, even if they are "non-paid" in Thailand, such as lecturing at a university (which I personally think would be a benefit to this country for someone to be able to so do), and even inclusive of attending Chamber of Commerce and other networking events, including speaking at conferences (which I do frequently for the benefit of the Thai people). So find me guilty of trying to help people, for free, with my knowledge. However, at the events I attend, we usually have an "umbrella" with many Thai officials present who will stop bad things from occuring.

Total rubbish.

If you are resident in Thailand, than running an online company or business from within Thailand requires a work permit and falls under the auspices of the employment and business acts for foreigners.

If you are a resident in Thailand and running any kinds of businesses or companies here, even if as the claim the business transactions as made abroad, without the documentation and permissions required, including not being being registered with the Thai tax office, than you are running a business illegally here in Thailand.

I would be very interested to know who are these apparent many attorneys you checked with in Thailand? Because if you paid any fees for their expert opinions I would certainly advise trying to claim a refund for misleading you.

According to the comments in your post, you are just another Westerner running a business illegally in Thailand.