International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[Emptyset]

Looks like we have them all congregated on this thread. Safety in numbers guys ???? Still on the defense/denial re PTP.

Amazing when in a short time we have all these changes for the better, and PTP did not make any during their 3 years of office. amazing --

It's you that keeps going on about PTP. Many others just want to defend people's right to speak, to criticize, and to select a government of their choosing. Personally I don't think PTP deserve any support, given that they were corrupt, complacent and self-serving when they had a real opportunity to make a difference. However, I believe in free speech, rights to protest, elections, critical thought and debate... these are the things I thought Thailand needed more of to overcome its political strife, not less. Many others on here claimed to believe in these things when they could be used to attack PT. Not so much now, it appears. There are other directions this could've gone in had the PDRC side been willing to compromise.

But anyway, what's happened has happened. Sometimes negative things lead to positive changes. Breakdowns can lead to breakthroughs. I've seen quite a lot of critical comment directed towards the PDRC from "red" leaning urban types on the social media (of course we seldom get to hear what rural folk are thinking, unfortunately). I think many realize that they were just using people for personal gain - Chaturon and one or two others excepted perhaps. And I think smarter PDRC supporters might soon realize - if they haven't already - that they were also being used. Suthep's little gathering the other night was not unimportant in that respect. It gave the lie to the whole thing, really. It gave the game away.

If only these two disefranchised groups could find a way to have a conversation, maybe a new social movement would emerge from the ashes... I'm not saying it will happen. But that's the best case scenario.

[Dr Bruce]

Honest truth, whether Mickey Mouse took over running the country, or whoever.

I look at the said situation as of NOW. compared with the rice-- tablets--rubber--water management-- nothing could be worse than that.

If you had freedom of the media during PTP era why no debates allowed between opposition and Yingluck ??? why no question time every week in the house ??

Why are seemingly are there NO real accounts/books shown for monies spent on projects etc.

The media censorship is good for these early days, news of a positive kind for starters. Then freedom and elections- WHY NOT ???

Thought you wanted democracy restoring, we never had democracy rule during PTP only their democratic election.

This is not about promoting Military it's about clearing up after a corrupt government.

I cannot speak for Mickey Mouse because The Disney Channel is still banned.

Have you ever watched PMQs in the UK, loads of JaBoo shouting and very little substance, The rice-- tablets--rubber--water management-- were all cock-up to various degrees and we will never know the truth about all of them. But I think that some of them were in the PTP manifesto. (not sure which) and they were voted for by the people of Thailand.

Media censorship is never a good thing, not for early days, middle days or late days. Before the protests there were media organisation that were pro and anti government. During the protests we had Bluesky and Red Shirt channels.

I do not want democracy restoring, I wanted Thailand to remain a democratic country. Whatever Gerrymandered Faux system the Ammart come up with sometime down the road when they allow the people to vote next, it will not be democracy as we know it. Do you remember the referendum on the last constitution?

3rd paragraph. see below---2 channels ok debate NO it is not healthy --people want debate so they can clearly see faults either side.

1st two paragraphs rubbish and B/S

How was the country democratically run by the PTP, the government were diabolical and broke the law.

I did mention debate via---question time--??? TV air time Yingluck v opposition ??? no reply. because things would have been revealed nationally PTP could not have that ---they wanted to get away with negative publicity for them. FREEDOM ???

If you want to talk about press freedom--Go back to T Rak Thai, domination during KT rule--that set the standard.

But you want to complain NOW about The army... PPPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE

Oh Dear!

Normally I ignore posts that contain insults but for you I make exception.

You said question time in the House which to a Brit means PMQs which is televised and a complete waste of time. The country was democratically governed by PTP because they were elected and when there were protests by a minority of the population they dissolved Parliament and set a new election. That is what democratic governments do.

The Thai press has never been completely free because the laws here prevent it. But it has been much freer in the past than it is now.

I hope that Thailand will one-day return to democracy. I hope it can be done without bloodshed and I hope that us Farangs will still be here to see it.

And The Disney Channel is still blocked here.

[fab4]

Gen P live on TV has just said a new government by 1st October 2014 but no mention of elections?

Well the BP has it he said no elections for about 15 months. Around October 2015.

Sorry FAB4 but I have to correct you there. He said no elections for at least 15 months. He did not say there would be elections he just gave some time frames before he would consider elections.

Point taken.

[sumtingwong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Dear John Kerry,

$10 million aid-cut means very little to Thailand. The Thaksin regime has abused more than $8,000 million out of the national budget. If the US is so happy and proud to support Thaksin corrupted regime, so be it. Someday the US will wake up and realize the difference between the authoritarian Thaksin regime under the disguise of their brand of democracy, and the full democracy as described by Alexis de Tocqueville 180 years ago. We in Thailand are now fiercely fighting for full democracy and will not settle for less.

Dear BBC and CNN,

Crisis in Thailand is certainly beyond your grasp. Time and more education will improve your understanding of Thailand.

Somkiat Onwimon

Bangkok

23 May 2014

Dear Sumting, At no time did anyone in the U.S. government including Sec. Kerry ever say that the withdrawing of $10 million in aid would detrimental or somehow onerous to Thailand, it is simply the law in the U.S. that once a Democratically elected government is overthrown that aid be recinded As far as "brands" of Democracy go as you put it I was not aware that there were different "brands", Democracy as I have always understood it is one vote for every citizen, which BTW is something that herr suthep has a hard time getting his head around. What you fail to realize in your tunnel visioned little world is that if the entire shin clan were to dissappear tomorrow, it would not make you happy because whatever party formed in the vacuum of the diposed shinawatras it would defeat whatever party the Bangkok elite and southern muslims put up, and that my friend is called Democracy alt=thumbsup.gif>

Those are Somkiat Onwimon words, not mine. Jane 'Fonda Kerry is a fool and a traitor. The USA only allowed land owners to vote when it became a country.

The PTP never got a majority vote.

[ In reality, of the 74% of Thais that turned out to vote on July 3, 2011, only 48% actually cast votes for Peua Thai (PTP). Of all eligible voters, that is a tenuous 35% mandate, hardly what can be called “decisively backed.” ]

In multiparty elections like in Thailand and elsewhere in the world, a 48% share of votes cast is a massive landslide my friend The fact that it is not "the majority vote" as you put it is a red herring, and casting the net out to all those who didn't even participate in the electoral process to try and skew your percentages is sadder yet Yes the U.S. has evolved in its democratic process since the nations inception nearly 240 years ago (as DeTouqueville predicted), however we are not debating history here my friend, but rather representative Democracy in the current times and I feel that you either have a grave misunderstanding of the Thai electorate or else you are in lock step with herr suthep in the feeling that the "buffolos" who reside in the Thai countryside don't derserve the vote. Either way you are on the wrong side of the future for Thailand

I put that in [ ] because that is from another article. So you believe that if 100 parties run candidates and 1 of them get 5% or the vote aand the other 99 get an equal split of the remainder votes, you consider that a landslide mandate for your party to be a democratic dictator and they are above the laws and above the constitution and above the monarchy and have a get oput of jail free card for anything they do until they are voted out. You have a communist view of the definition of democracy.

[ginjag]

Looks like we have them all congregated on this thread. Safety in numbers guys ???? Still on the defense/denial re PTP.

Amazing when in a short time we have all these changes for the better, and PTP did not make any during their 3 years of office. amazing --

It's you that keeps going on about PTP. Many others just want to defend people's right to speak, to criticize, and to select a government of their choosing. Personally I don't think PTP deserve any support, given that they were corrupt, complacent and self-serving when they had a real opportunity to make a difference. However, I believe in free speech, rights to protest, elections, critical thought and debate... these are the things I thought Thailand needed more of to overcome its political strife, not less. Many others on here claimed to believe in these things when they could be used to attack PT. Not so much now, it appears. There are other directions this could've gone in had the PDRC side been willing to compromise.

But anyway, what's happened has happened. Sometimes negative things lead to positive changes. Breakdowns can lead to breakthroughs. I've seen quite a lot of critical comment directed towards the PDRC from "red" leaning urban types on the social media (of course we seldom get to hear what rural folk are thinking, unfortunately). I think many realize that they were just using people for personal gain - Chaturon and one or two others excepted perhaps. And I think smarter PDRC supporters might soon realize - if they haven't already - that they were also being used. Suthep's little gathering the other night was not unimportant in that respect. It gave the lie to the whole thing, really. It gave the game away.

If only these two disefranchised groups could find a way to have a conversation, maybe a new social movement would emerge from the ashes... I'm not saying it will happen. But that's the best case scenario.

Neither deserves to be on any table or be involved in any negotiations.

You said it is me that keeps going on about PTP---sorry to inform you I respond to The lovers of PTP who are still trying to save some face. Therefore blaming the army for limited media coverage. (and in many ways they are right to do this) but not to make it an excuse for PTP failings.

The next best thing to my mind is if an organization / committee is caught in the act---scrap it--and change the committee.

So lets see who is left after the clean up---then open debates live, then Thais can think about who to elect.

I agree on freedom of speech if it can be allowed to be balanced. Difficult times these in the early clean up days, we do not want more mayhem.

[sumtingwong]

I guess the farangs better leave then.

[fab4]

"...It is arguably the most widely read and respected weekly news magazine in the English language."

-- heybruce

The economist is rated as the 94th most popular news magazine by paid circulation out of 100 in the US. Circulation is even lower in other English speaking countries. It's 3 closest rivals are House Beautiful, Conde Nast Traveler, and Architectural Digest. Speaks volumes about your ability to argue..

Speaks volumes of your ability to debate if you regard House Beautiful, Conde Nast Traveler, and the Architectural Digest as weekly news magazines.

Good point fab, not one single "news" magazine was rated as low as The Economist in the list, unless you consider Working Mother news for mothers. The New Yorker was 75th and Time was no. 11, as it should be.

Fair enough, if you regard popularity as an arbiter of a reliable information source.

The Sun is the most popular "newspaper" in the UK according to circulation, but I wouldn't refer to it for intelligent comment on.........well, anything really.

[AleG]

I look at the said situation as of NOW. compared with the rice-- tablets--rubber--water management-- nothing could be worse than that.

People disappearing without trial, and people being killed is better than financial mismanagement?

OK, I'll give that a go.

No, it is not better, and thankfully the killings have stopped since the coup; not sure what are you talking about people disappearing without trial.

Trust me on this one, the violence inherent in military juntas hasn't even started yet.

The only threat of violence has come from the Red Shirt side and (unlike under PTPs complicit inaction) there have been decesive steps to curb it, there was no violence from the junta in the last coup and I don't see any indication that this time it will be different.

[ginjag]

Honest truth, whether Mickey Mouse took over running the country, or whoever.

I look at the said situation as of NOW. compared with the rice-- tablets--rubber--water management-- nothing could be worse than that.

If you had freedom of the media during PTP era why no debates allowed between opposition and Yingluck ??? why no question time every week in the house ??

Why are seemingly are there NO real accounts/books shown for monies spent on projects etc.

The media censorship is good for these early days, news of a positive kind for starters. Then freedom and elections- WHY NOT ???

Thought you wanted democracy restoring, we never had democracy rule during PTP only their democratic election.

This is not about promoting Military it's about clearing up after a corrupt government.

I cannot speak for Mickey Mouse because The Disney Channel is still banned.

Have you ever watched PMQs in the UK, loads of JaBoo shouting and very little substance, The rice-- tablets--rubber--water management-- were all cock-up to various degrees and we will never know the truth about all of them. But I think that some of them were in the PTP manifesto. (not sure which) and they were voted for by the people of Thailand.

Media censorship is never a good thing, not for early days, middle days or late days. Before the protests there were media organisation that were pro and anti government. During the protests we had Bluesky and Red Shirt channels.

I do not want democracy restoring, I wanted Thailand to remain a democratic country. Whatever Gerrymandered Faux system the Ammart come up with sometime down the road when they allow the people to vote next, it will not be democracy as we know it. Do you remember the referendum on the last constitution?

3rd paragraph. see below---2 channels ok debate NO it is not healthy --people want debate so they can clearly see faults either side.

1st two paragraphs rubbish and B/S

How was the country democratically run by the PTP, the government were diabolical and broke the law.

I did mention debate via---question time--??? TV air time Yingluck v opposition ??? no reply. because things would have been revealed nationally PTP could not have that ---they wanted to get away with negative publicity for them. FREEDOM ???

If you want to talk about press freedom--Go back to T Rak Thai, domination during KT rule--that set the standard.

But you want to complain NOW about The army... PPPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE

Oh Dear!

Normally I ignore posts that contain insults but for you I make exception.

You said question time in the House which to a Brit means PMQs which is televised and a complete waste of time. The country was democratically governed by PTP because they were elected and when there were protests by a minority of the population they dissolved Parliament and set a new election. That is what democratic governments do.

The Thai press has never been completely free because the laws here prevent it. But it has been much freer in the past than it is now.

I hope that Thailand will one-day return to democracy. I hope it can be done without bloodshed and I hope that us Farangs will still be here to see it.

And The Disney Channel is still blocked here.

The PTP were democratically elected--------then WRON, not democratically governed---a bit different don't you think.

How can you post this way and sat PTP governed democratically ?????

The Disney government were removed and rightly so --NOT because it was the PTP---it was how they governed. now do you see my point ??? the other Pro posters think I am anti PTP NO I am a critic of how they governed. different.

Look at Thaksins monopoly of TV and newspapers-(Thai Rak Thai) drugs and corruption. IT was not more free in the past.

[Dr Bruce]

The PTP were democratically elected--------then WRON, not democratically governed---a bit different don't you think.

How can you post this way and sat PTP governed democratically ?????

The Disney government were removed and rightly so --NOT because it was the PTP---it was how they governed. now do you see my point ??? the other Pro posters think I am anti PTP NO I am a critic of how they governed. different.

Look at Thaksins monopoly of TV and newspapers-(Thai Rak Thai) drugs and corruption. IT was not more free in the past.

I am having problems understanding your reply, would you care to edit it?

I think you are saying that Thaksin (when he led TRT) had a monopoly of newspapers. Do you know that MONOPOLY means that he owned all the newspapers in the country?

[rabas]

The PTP were democratically elected--------then WRON, not democratically governed---a bit different don't you think.

How can you post this way and sat PTP governed democratically ?????

The Disney government were removed and rightly so --NOT because it was the PTP---it was how they governed. now do you see my point ??? the other Pro posters think I am anti PTP NO I am a critic of how they governed. different.

Look at Thaksins monopoly of TV and newspapers-(Thai Rak Thai) drugs and corruption. IT was not more free in the past.

I am having problems understanding your reply, would you care to edit it?

I think you are saying that Thaksin (when he led TRT) had a monopoly of newspapers. Do you know that MONOPOLY means that he owned all the newspapers in the country?

No, that is not the meaning of monopoly. It means he monopolized the news media, which he did.

You can google this, it's in the New York Times..

He packed his allies onto independent commissions on elections and corruption, the constitutional court and the Senate, as well as the military leadership. He undermined civic organizations, intimidated the news media and monopolized television, and used his overwhelming mandate and his control over government institutions to crush political opposition.

[Emptyset]

Looks like we have them all congregated on this thread. Safety in numbers guys ???? Still on the defense/denial re PTP.

Amazing when in a short time we have all these changes for the better, and PTP did not make any during their 3 years of office. amazing --

It's you that keeps going on about PTP. Many others just want to defend people's right to speak, to criticize, and to select a government of their choosing. Personally I don't think PTP deserve any support, given that they were corrupt, complacent and self-serving when they had a real opportunity to make a difference. However, I believe in free speech, rights to protest, elections, critical thought and debate... these are the things I thought Thailand needed more of to overcome its political strife, not less. Many others on here claimed to believe in these things when they could be used to attack PT. Not so much now, it appears. There are other directions this could've gone in had the PDRC side been willing to compromise.

But anyway, what's happened has happened. Sometimes negative things lead to positive changes. Breakdowns can lead to breakthroughs. I've seen quite a lot of critical comment directed towards the PDRC from "red" leaning urban types on the social media (of course we seldom get to hear what rural folk are thinking, unfortunately). I think many realize that they were just using people for personal gain - Chaturon and one or two others excepted perhaps. And I think smarter PDRC supporters might soon realize - if they haven't already - that they were also being used. Suthep's little gathering the other night was not unimportant in that respect. It gave the lie to the whole thing, really. It gave the game away.

If only these two disefranchised groups could find a way to have a conversation, maybe a new social movement would emerge from the ashes... I'm not saying it will happen. But that's the best case scenario.

Neither deserves to be on any table or be involved in any negotiations.

You said it is me that keeps going on about PTP---sorry to inform you I respond to The lovers of PTP who are still trying to save some face. Therefore blaming the army for limited media coverage. (and in many ways they are right to do this) but not to make it an excuse for PTP failings.

The next best thing to my mind is if an organization / committee is caught in the act---scrap it--and change the committee.

So lets see who is left after the clean up---then open debates live, then Thais can think about who to elect.

I agree on freedom of speech if it can be allowed to be balanced. Difficult times these in the early clean up days, we do not want more mayhem.

I actually made a typo in what I wrote above, I meant that I'd seen many critical comments aimed at PT by red leaning types on social media (certainly far more aimed at the PDRC though, that's a given) and there's more talk of a new movement being required. Hence my hope that people from both sides could join together and push for democracy whilst opposing self-serving elites of all stripes. As I say, doesn't seem likely but things are in flux...

But to your post, if you keep scrapping committees/governments/democracy every there's is a scandal or do something someone doesn't like, how does anyone get a chance to learn? You're basically just going to continue making the same mistakes. It's like if your dad taught you to ride a bike as a kid, you probably went off the rails a few times, a few scraped knees, but you were encouraged to keep trying, despite the cuts, scrapes and bruises, and eventually you could ride it properly. Now what if your dad said he wanted you to learn to ride the bike, let you ride it once and, naturally, being a beginner you fell off. But instead of letting you learn your lessons and keep practicing, he took your bike and locked it in a shed for a year or two. Then after that period where you weren't allowed to ride it, he takes it out again and says you should have another go. Of course, you end up falling off again. So your dad takes the bike, puts it back in the shed and says you can have another go in a couple of years as clearly you're not ready yet. Repeat that process ad infinitum. You never do end up learning to ride that bike. You never know where you might've ridden it had you learned, what adventures you might have had, what you might have seen. You also might get hit by a car and get killed. But life is full of such risks.

Anyway, I think something similar has been going on in Thailand. I mean there are corruption scandals in every government. Remember the 1991 coup, Banharn's buffet cabinet turfed out, army promising to clean up the countryand restore democracy... a year or so later Suchinda has appointed himself PM with a cabinet made up of the worst of those who were deposed ostensibly because of their "unusual wealth". Deals can always be cut. The past can be made to disappear, if you're willing to choose the right side.

It's not, btw, that I actually care for these politicians at all. Just if things were done fairly, it wouldn't be just one side subject to investigations, asset seizures and the like. And it wouldn't just be politicians. One of the main problems is that even if they've got a politician bang to rights, it'll still be perceived by many as unfair just because of the nature of the government. Though I'm far more concerned about human rights than I am about corruption (the two are often intertwined though, of course), I do think corruption should be taken seriously. So I won't be shedding a tear if the junta finds real evidence of corruption from within the PT govt and punishes those responsible. The problem is, the process needs to be fair and also to be *seen* as fair. The prospects of that are... well...

[djjamie]

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

[craigt3365]

A few posts have been removed from view. Further violation of the rule below will result in posting holidays or permanent suspensions. We just can't take the risk.

===============================================================================================

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[djjamie]

Gen P live on TV has just said a new government by 1st October 2014 but no mention of elections?

Well the BP has it he said no elections for about 15 months. Around October 2015.

Sorry FAB4 but I have to correct you there. He said no elections for at least 15 months. He did not say there would be elections he just gave some time frames before he would consider elections.

Point taken.

WOW. Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum.

no elections for about 15 months.

no elections for at least 15 months

Point taken??

You guys need to get out and about or should I say "You guys should get out at least?"

[fab4]

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

I forsee a forum where the usual suspects post increasingly "imaginative" polemic or unrelenting adoration in the sure knowledge that there will now be no credible criticism allowed. From the post quoted, you can see it has already started. Enjoy the backslapping.

[Emptyset]

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

Can it be that it was all so simple then?

There was chatter on here about people getting talking points from Robert Amsterdam before. Not sure that was true but I can usually spot the influence of Tony Cartalucci. Anyway, you are entitled to your point of view. Others have spent considerable time reading about Thai history and talking to people on both sides, attempting to figure out what's really going on, trying to avoid giving in to easy assumptions and prejudices. Once you've done that it's much harder to see things in the black & white, manichean way that you do. Anyway, I can't speak for others, but I'm not bitter. Just concerned. And if I was able, I'd spell out my concerns and provide precedents from Thai history. However, I've just seen Craig's post and as there's a high chance this would contravene Thaivisa's understandable policy on political comments atm, I'm unable to do so.

Maybe in a few years time or hopefully much sooner, we'll be able to discuss this openly again and decide whether the optimists had it right. I actually hope they do because the alternative isn't pretty. Also I've just noticed that one of the people who has been silently reading* in Bangkok in the last few days is Somchai Neelapaijit's daughter. Interesting woman. She's got every reason to hate Thaksin given the tragic death of her father, and she probably does. Yet she's been able to put that hatred to one side and stand up for the principles she believes in. That's courage. That's conviction. This in itself is an example of things being more complicated than many seem to believe.

*There are some people silently reading books in Bangkok at present, standing near each other, but not together, just silently reading books. I would normally post a picture of Somchai's daughter reading, widely shared on Twitter/FB etc but, as above, erring on the side of caution.

[Emptyset]

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

I forsee a forum where the usual suspects post increasingly "imaginative" polemic or unrelenting adoration in the sure knowledge that there will now be no credible criticism allowed. From the post quoted, you can see it has already started. Enjoy the backslapping.

Yep. Yet some of those who seem to be enjoying this were the people who only a couple of weeks ago were railing against PT's "rule by fear and intimidation" etc, and continually claiming that PT were trying to prevent people from expressing legitimate political views (by, like, insisting that civil servants didn't roll out the red carpet for the anti-govt protesters)... so while Thaivisa's rules are understandable given the climate, it's not hard to see the inconsistency of certain poster's attitudes towards those rules.

Credit to those who have opposing views who dislike this situation though - I hope that's the view that some of the better posters on here would take. After all, one would think many joined a discussion forum to actually discuss things, and discussion usually involves disagreement, not just bland and triumphant consensus.

[mikemac]

The PTP were democratically elected--------then WRON, not democratically governed---a bit different don't you think.

How can you post this way and sat PTP governed democratically ?????

The Disney government were removed and rightly so --NOT because it was the PTP---it was how they governed. now do you see my point ??? the other Pro posters think I am anti PTP NO I am a critic of how they governed. different.

Look at Thaksins monopoly of TV and newspapers-(Thai Rak Thai) drugs and corruption. IT was not more free in the past.

I am having problems understanding your reply, would you care to edit it?

I think you are saying that Thaksin (when he led TRT) had a monopoly of newspapers. Do you know that MONOPOLY means that he owned all the newspapers in the country?

monopolize - to take over and control (something or someone) completely

Seems to me that Thaksin was a monopolizer mahk mahk

[Luger2]

I see in the BP sutep and the yellows celebrating at a lavish French restaurant.

Meanwhile the poor who supported him and slept on the streets and handed over their hard earned are asking what about us and where's the money gone?

Sorry guys you were a means to an end and now you got the coup you wanted unfortunately you are just not one of the elite!

Thaksin outscores him with shopping trips to Japan with a new honey as his reaction to the coup.

Thaksin calls on NCOP to return happiness to Thais

he seems to be starting with himself with a new honey on his current shopping trip to Japan

Fugitive former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is visiting Japan in the wake of the Thai military's seizure of power in a coup d'etat, it was learned Thursday from informed sources. Thaksin entered Japan at the beginning of the week on a private visit for shopping and the like, and was to be there for several days. Pictures apparently taken by a Thai national staying in Japan have been posted on the Internet showing Thaskin walking in Tokyo with a woman.

Kyodo News International May 29, 2014

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/kyodo-news-international/140529/fugitive-ex-thai-leader-thaksin-visiting-japan-sourc-0

I upset about coup. You give me happy time, yes?

btw, I thought only rich, hi-so, elite, amart supported Suthep. Now you're telling it was poor folk sleeping on the streets. I wish the red shirt propagandists could share their scripts more consistently.

[Luger2]

Gen P live on TV has just said a new government by 1st October 2014 but no mention of elections?

Initially appointed PM and interim government much as Suthep wanted but then full elections within 1 year after reforms are in place,not quite what Suthep wanted as elections were not an option.

Bangkok Post is reporting a different version of what General Prayuth stated in his address.

And what do they say? I watched it live and saw and read basically what I posted.

Can't post Bangkok Post, but suffice to say, it differed quite a bit from your interpretation, IMO.

As always, others can read it and formulate their own opinion if they feel it differs or not.

[ginjag]

3rd paragraph. see below---2 channels ok debate NO it is not healthy --people want debate so they can clearly see faults either side.

1st two paragraphs rubbish and B/S

How was the country democratically run by the PTP, the government were diabolical and broke the law.

I did mention debate via---question time--??? TV air time Yingluck v opposition ??? no reply. because things would have been revealed nationally PTP could not have that ---they wanted to get away with negative publicity for them. FREEDOM ???

If you want to talk about press freedom--Go back to T Rak Thai, domination during KT rule--that set the standard.

But you want to complain NOW about The army... PPPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE

Oh Dear!

Normally I ignore posts that contain insults but for you I make exception.

You said question time in the House which to a Brit means PMQs which is televised and a complete waste of time. The country was democratically governed by PTP because they were elected and when there were protests by a minority of the population they dissolved Parliament and set a new election. That is what democratic governments do.

The Thai press has never been completely free because the laws here prevent it. But it has been much freer in the past than it is now.

I hope that Thailand will one-day return to democracy. I hope it can be done without bloodshed and I hope that us Farangs will still be here to see it.

And The Disney Channel is still blocked here.

The PTP were democratically elected--------then WRON, not democratically governed---a bit different don't you think.

How can you post this way and sat PTP governed democratically ?????

The Disney government were removed and rightly so --NOT because it was the PTP---it was how they governed. now do you see my point ??? the other Pro posters think I am anti PTP NO I am a critic of how they governed. different.

Look at Thaksins monopoly of TV and newspapers-(Thai Rak Thai) drugs and corruption. IT was not more free in the past.

1st line WRONg

2nd line SAy

These minor corrections had to be made, because Dr Bruce used the m/typo as an excuse to not understand my post ---amazing Bruce.

[Luger2]

The Economist is nothing but an opinion rag with anonymous writers, by their own definition.

The Economist is a news magazine that is frequently quoted by other news organizations. It is arguably the most widely read and respected weekly news magazine in the English language. I would never hesitate to reference the Economist as the source of my information, I would never reference you. Where do you come up with your drivel?

"...It is arguably the most widely read and respected weekly news magazine in the English language."

-- heybruce

The economist is rated as the 94th most popular news magazine by paid circulation out of 100 in the US. Circulation is even lower in other English speaking countries. It's 3 closest rivals are House Beautiful, Conde Nast Traveler, and Architectural Digest.

Speaks volumes about your ability to argue..

Architectural Digest

[Luger2]

Just read a blunt Financial Times leader of yesterday which spells it out. (You know, the FT - that wild eyed, ignorant, irresponsible newspaper prone to promoting chaos and criminality. Who anywhere in the world would take any notice its leaders?)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/804d7ebc-e59f-11e3-a7f5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz330vg34dh

Nothing personal, but I really dislike to get a pointer to an article and then need to register first before I can even see some of it.

Agreed.It would be good practice when showing a link to indicate by means of a £ sign that one needs to subscribe or register in order to read the full article.In the case of the FT it's straightforward to register and this allows access to a limited number of articles per month.

Agreed, except it should be the more widely used and accepted $ sign.

[triffid]

The Economist is nothing but an opinion rag with anonymous writers, by their own definition.

The Economist is a news magazine that is frequently quoted by other news organizations. It is arguably the most widely read and respected weekly news magazine in the English language. I would never hesitate to reference the Economist as the source of my information, I would never reference you. Where do you come up with your drivel?

"...It is arguably the most widely read and respected weekly news magazine in the English language."

-- heybruce

The economist is rated as the 94th most popular news magazine by paid circulation out of 100 in the US. Circulation is even lower in other English speaking countries. It's 3 closest rivals are House Beautiful, Conde Nast Traveler, and Architectural Digest.

Speaks volumes about your ability to argue..

Architectural Digest

Whatever one thinks of The Economist, just about every foreign name in media is also highly critical. So, with the exception of that thai quoted earlier and a certain number of other thais, everyone else in the world simply doesn't understand or is stupid. Yes, that must be it. Given that profound truth I'll bow out.

[ginjag]

The PTP working along side it's insurgent group the UDD staged a coup 60 seconds after the 2011 election results. The army understanding that this regime funded by an accused mass murderer, accused terrorist and convicted criminal fugitive who is unelectable and manipulated the democratic process to try to abuse the weaknesses in democracy is not very democratic. Of course international condemnation is expected because they do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksin's "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London. thaksin highjacked democracy in 2011. That is when the coup happened.

I am old fashioned and believe good will always prevail over evil and I take great satisfaction in knowing that through the hard work of General Preyuth that thaksin will no longer be a threat to democracy. Rest assured the new constitution will have clauses in it to ensure that unelected criminal elements from overseas cannot "pull the strings" so to speak.

The Thai military and 70% of the populace recognized this return to democracy is in fact the first step in a better Thailand that Thai's has yearned for 3 years and this is reversing the coup that happened in 2011. It is a revolution by the majority of the population. 70% in fact.

Farmers paid, no more deaths of innocent PDRC protestors by red shirts, reform and democracy to follow. Of course there are the bitter few that reject this, but at least the majority don't have to listen to that minority under the current martial law. Even the radical red shirt leaders are on board with this revolution now.

Well done General Preyuth. At 4 deaths and 60 injuries a month over the past 6 months you have already saved 1 persons life and 15 from being injured.

I forsee a forum where the usual suspects post increasingly "imaginative" polemic or unrelenting adoration in the sure knowledge that there will now be no credible criticism allowed. From the post quoted, you can see it has already started. Enjoy the backslapping.

Yep. Yet some of those who seem to be enjoying this were the people who only a couple of weeks ago were railing against PT's "rule by fear and intimidation" etc, and continually claiming that PT were trying to prevent people from expressing legitimate political views (by, like, insisting that civil servants didn't roll out the red carpet for the anti-govt protesters)... so while Thaivisa's rules are understandable given the climate, it's not hard to see the inconsistency of certain poster's attitudes towards those rules.

Credit to those who have opposing views who dislike this situation though - I hope that's the view that some of the better posters on here would take. After all, one would think many joined a discussion forum to actually discuss things, and discussion usually involves disagreement, not just bland and triumphant consensus.

If your new boss at work calls a meeting to tell you about SHORT TERM new rules, as he does not want any hindrance at this busy time, YOU DO NOT start kicking him, why not put aside your long term loyalty to PTP and be patient. Lets see how it spins out.

I like the hounding down of anyone guilty in this last 3 years that has done wrong. The checking of audits, etc.,

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Gen P live on TV has just said a new government by 1st October 2014 but no mention of elections?

Well the BP has it he said no elections for about 15 months. Around October 2015.

Sorry FAB4 but I have to correct you there. He said no elections for at least 15 months. He did not say there would be elections he just gave some time frames before he would consider elections.

And to complete the comment it's already mentioned several times that there will substantial time taken, before the elections to discuss and agree and implement a range of reforms, and the first steps (more to come) have been mentioned in regard to the establishment of a reform body.

Now fabie, i'm sure you will respond with:

- The usual suspects, and/or

- The amart, the establishment, the hi-so's etc etc

[Emptyset]

Yep. Yet some of those who seem to be enjoying this were the people who only a couple of weeks ago were railing against PT's "rule by fear and intimidation" etc, and continually claiming that PT were trying to prevent people from expressing legitimate political views (by, like, insisting that civil servants didn't roll out the red carpet for the anti-govt protesters)... so while Thaivisa's rules are understandable given the climate, it's not hard to see the inconsistency of certain poster's attitudes towards those rules.

Credit to those who have opposing views who dislike this situation though - I hope that's the view that some of the better posters on here would take. After all, one would think many joined a discussion forum to actually discuss things, and discussion usually involves disagreement, not just bland and triumphant consensus.

If your new boss at work calls a meeting to tell you about SHORT TERM new rules, as he does not want any hindrance at this busy time, YOU DO NOT start kicking him, why not put aside your long term loyalty to PTP and be patient. Lets see how it spins out.

I like the hounding down of anyone guilty in this last 3 years that has done wrong. The checking of audits, etc.,

I've already stated quite clearly that I couldn't care less about shameless self-serving politicians. My concern is for journalists, academics, student leaders, activists and anyone else that makes a stand on principle. Chaturon aside, no politician has done anything that makes me think they're worthy of respect or sympathy.

[mikemac]

3rd paragraph. see below---2 channels ok debate NO it is not healthy --people want debate so they can clearly see faults either side.

1st two paragraphs rubbish and B/S

How was the country democratically run by the PTP, the government were diabolical and broke the law.

I did mention debate via---question time--??? TV air time Yingluck v opposition ??? no reply. because things would have been revealed nationally PTP could not have that ---they wanted to get away with negative publicity for them. FREEDOM ???

If you want to talk about press freedom--Go back to T Rak Thai, domination during KT rule--that set the standard.

But you want to complain NOW about The army... PPPPLLLEEEAAASSSEEE

Oh Dear!

Normally I ignore posts that contain insults but for you I make exception.

You said question time in the House which to a Brit means PMQs which is televised and a complete waste of time. The country was democratically governed by PTP because they were elected and when there were protests by a minority of the population they dissolved Parliament and set a new election. That is what democratic governments do.

The Thai press has never been completely free because the laws here prevent it. But it has been much freer in the past than it is now.

I hope that Thailand will one-day return to democracy. I hope it can be done without bloodshed and I hope that us Farangs will still be here to see it.

And The Disney Channel is still blocked here.

The PTP were democratically elected--------then WRON, not democratically governed---a bit different don't you think.

How can you post this way and sat PTP governed democratically ?????

The Disney government were removed and rightly so --NOT because it was the PTP---it was how they governed. now do you see my point ??? the other Pro posters think I am anti PTP NO I am a critic of how they governed. different.

Look at Thaksins monopoly of TV and newspapers-(Thai Rak Thai) drugs and corruption. IT was not more free in the past.

1st line WRONg

2nd line SAy

These minor corrections had to be made, because Dr Bruce used the m/typo as an excuse to not understand my post ---amazing Bruce.

Dr Democratically Elected !

................"How was the country democratically run by the PTP, the government were diabolical and broke the law."...............

Yes, they were democratically elected, with votes that were paid for fair and square.

The way they ran the country after they were "democratically elected" is another matter, but it does not matter, apparently. All that seems to matter is how you buy your way into power are elected.The good Doctor must have nodded off just after the elections and missed the last three years.

[ginjag]

Yep. Yet some of those who seem to be enjoying this were the people who only a couple of weeks ago were railing against PT's "rule by fear and intimidation" etc, and continually claiming that PT were trying to prevent people from expressing legitimate political views (by, like, insisting that civil servants didn't roll out the red carpet for the anti-govt protesters)... so while Thaivisa's rules are understandable given the climate, it's not hard to see the inconsistency of certain poster's attitudes towards those rules.

Credit to those who have opposing views who dislike this situation though - I hope that's the view that some of the better posters on here would take. After all, one would think many joined a discussion forum to actually discuss things, and discussion usually involves disagreement, not just bland and triumphant consensus.

If your new boss at work calls a meeting to tell you about SHORT TERM new rules, as he does not want any hindrance at this busy time, YOU DO NOT start kicking him, why not put aside your long term loyalty to PTP and be patient. Lets see how it spins out.

I like the hounding down of anyone guilty in this last 3 years that has done wrong. The checking of audits, etc.,

I've already stated quite clearly that I couldn't care less about shameless self-serving politicians. My concern is for journalists, academics, student leaders, activists and anyone else that makes a stand on principle. Chaturon aside, no politician has done anything that makes me think they're worthy of respect or sympathy.

I expect academics, journalists, student leaders etc., should and will understand, these early stages of a clean up. I suspect there are more worrying sides to this that we do not know about, Be patient and wait, it'll all turn out right in the wash.