International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[heybruce]

......................"where the usual suspects post increasingly "imaginative" polemic or unrelenting adoration"......................................

And this from one of the worst red propagandists ever to post on TV, (under various noms-de-plume)

I foresee a forum where the nasty, condescending red lovers are too frightened to post. Cannot wait !

I hope I'm not the only one to find this comment very chilling.

chilling indeed

Of course a red lover is anyone who opposes military coups and dictatorships. Also, anybody who reads news from unapproved sources is highly suspect.

[AleG]

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

Why would there be trade sanctions against Thailand?

In case you didn't pay attention the economy was in a dive while Yingluck was around looking for trade opportunities in Montenegro and the like, it got worse after the slow collapse of the political system. Since the coup most of the commentary on the economy is of relief that stability is returning to the country.

[Thaddeus]

The economy is likely in recession now.

It will get much worse.

There is going to be a price for this hostility toward democracy the elite and the army has shown.

Too bad.

The sky is falling is it?

Or is it just not the sky you like?

Thai banks say the economy is going into recession. Hardly am I making it up and your sky is falling comment would indicate you do not believe this fact. Show us quote from a bank in Thailand that says otherwise.

So what if the banks say that (links would be handy) .... as long as the people are happy, and I mean the ordinary people, the ordinary people with ordinary jobs.

Why do you care?

Do you have investments here that are now in danger?

Tough.

[thaibeachlovers]

No matter how much people go on about "corruption" etc, IMO Thailand was a better and more enjoyable place before thaksin took over. Since then, crime has increased, money money money has become all they care about, and the locals have become fatter ( due to eating bad food ) and less sanuk. In short the "smile" has vanished from LOS.

Does anyone that lived in Thailand/ visited a lot during Leekpai's second term disagree?

Edited June 1, 2014 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

<will not make up for the negatives after a time.>

Plenty of negatives where I live and have been so under all the years of thaksin and his proxies. You make it sound as though Thailand under the thaksins was all sweetness and light, which those of us that have been here through them know is not true.

[Dr Bruce]

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

Why would there be trade sanctions against Thailand?

In case you didn't pay attention the economy was in a dive while Yingluck was around looking for trade opportunities in Montenegro and the like, it got worse after the slow collapse of the political system. Since the coup most of the commentary on the economy is of relief that stability is returning to the country.

The ammart controlled Bank of Thailand say that things will improve.

The ammart controlled TAT say that things will improve.

The Junta say that they will have 6% groth this year.

Standard and Poor say that the coup is a negative.

Moodys say that the Coup is a negative.

My broker says that the Coup is a negative.

Under the new rules of posting. I say that the coup is a positive and the future of Thailand is Green rather than Red.

[thaibeachlovers]

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

Why would there be trade sanctions against Thailand?

In case you didn't pay attention the economy was in a dive while Yingluck was around looking for trade opportunities in Montenegro and the like, it got worse after the slow collapse of the political system. Since the coup most of the commentary on the economy is of relief that stability is returning to the country.

The ammart controlled Bank of Thailand say that things will improve.

The ammart controlled TAT say that things will improve.

The Junta say that they will have 6% groth this year.

Standard and Poor say that the coup is a negative.

Moodys say that the Coup is a negative.

My broker says that the Coup is a negative.

Under the new rules of posting. I say that the coup is a positive and the future of Thailand is Green rather than Red.

Didn't Standard and Poors say that the US economy was just fine before the 07 crash .

Does your broker have a working crystal ball?

[leggo]

No coup ever made democracy better. Not anywhere, not anytime, not in any way(s).

There is a first time for everything is there not.

There is not, contrary to and in contradiction of the superficial glib saying that is also trite, banal.

The nature of the beast we call the coup d'état makes it 99.9% improbable there would be such a thing as a "good" military mutiny coup d'état.

Thailand provides all the evidence, nay, proof anyone could ever need of the point. The former LOS is zero for 12 in the disastrous consequences of its "successful" coups and 0 for 19 in coup attempts overall.

It's sort of like

Like it or not the army has done more good clean ups in 1 month than the 3 years of PTP.

This has to be very positive and forward outlook for Thailand. Why criticize something that is a million time better than the last elected government.

Even if on PAPER coup's are not democratic. The general is more democratic than the whole of PTP put together.

So much for your impartial views ??

Could you be more specific about ' more good clean ups?'

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Dr Bruce]

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

Why would there be trade sanctions against Thailand?

In case you didn't pay attention the economy was in a dive while Yingluck was around looking for trade opportunities in Montenegro and the like, it got worse after the slow collapse of the political system. Since the coup most of the commentary on the economy is of relief that stability is returning to the country.

The ammart controlled Bank of Thailand say that things will improve.

The ammart controlled TAT say that things will improve.

The Junta say that they will have 6% groth this year.

Standard and Poor say that the coup is a negative.

Moodys say that the Coup is a negative.

My broker says that the Coup is a negative.

Under the new rules of posting. I say that the coup is a positive and the future of Thailand is Green rather than Red.

Didn't Standard and Poors say that the US economy was just fine before the 07 crash .

Does your broker have a working crystal ball?

Since you ask, my broker has no balls at all. he is very risk averse and no fun at all.

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So is this the sweet and calm Thailand we get told about?

Farang being thrown out tall buildings is so common that it hardly draws your attention anymore.

But about the economy, and it is the economy that will get everyone's attention should it collapse, it is in recession likely now.

Should it crash, and it could, this place will get real precarious. Crime will increase. People living in the streets will become common.

But you all know that.

Who runs Thailand now? Is it a group of wealthy that includes the family? I mean they own the army.

Yet it seems that no one knows for sure.

Would trade sanctions from nations change things? Likely the Thai elite would simply dig in and hold on as Thailand turned into Myanmar part II.

But with or without trade sanctions, the economy is going into a deep recession and any recovery will be unlikely under these conditions.

I will know it is over when some of you full time apologists for this Thai regime start to complain. When you wake up and see all your friends moving out of the nation you might get alarmed.

Beer and babes will not make up for the negatives after a time.

Why would there be trade sanctions against Thailand?

In case you didn't pay attention the economy was in a dive while Yingluck was around looking for trade opportunities in Montenegro and the like, it got worse after the slow collapse of the political system. Since the coup most of the commentary on the economy is of relief that stability is returning to the country.

The ammart controlled Bank of Thailand say that things will improve.

The ammart controlled TAT say that things will improve.

The Junta say that they will have 6% groth this year.

Standard and Poor say that the coup is a negative.

Moodys say that the Coup is a negative.

My broker says that the Coup is a negative.

Under the new rules of posting. I say that the coup is a positive and the future of Thailand is Green rather than Red.

Dr. Bruce, How very politically correct of you sir, albeit with your arm twisted behind your back You left out that the TAT is bound to come out with figures any day now showing that there was a substantial increase in tourists visiting Thailand over the past 6 months and of course the proclamation from the coup leaders any day that a real estate/banking crash in China will have little or no effect on the Thai economy Some of the naive posters here with the rose colored glasses on remind me of the old experiment with the frog and the boiling pot of water, if you put a frog into a pot of boiling water he will immediately jump out, however if you put a frog into a pot of water at room temperature and then gradually turn the heat up he will remain in the pot and wind up getting boiled alive

[sumtingwong]

"If you feeling froggy then leap"

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/australia-cuts-ties-thailand-over-military-coup-054525669.html#Zsb6b0I

PERTH Australia (Reuters) - Australia downgraded ties with Thailand on Saturday in the wake of this month's military coup, imposing a travel ban on the junta leaders and cutting defence cooperation in some of the toughest punitive measures taken by a foreign government.

The U.S. and other foreign governments have condemned the May 22 coup, calling for a rapid return to democracy.

The Australian government said it had postponed three activities with the Thai military and would prevent the leaders of the coup from travelling to Australia as it continues to have “grave concerns” about the military's actions in Thailand.

“In line with our concerns, Australia is reducing our engagement with the Thai military and will lower the level of our interaction with the Thai military leadership,” Australia’s Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and Defence Minister David Johnston said in a joint statement.

Coup leader General Prayuth Chan-ocha said on Friday there would be no elections for at least a year, arguing reforms must come first. Reforms could only be implemented if there was peace and stability and would take about a year, he added.

The military seized power on May 22, ousting the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, after meetings with key figures on both sides of Thailand’s political divide failed to find a solution to a six-month political deadlock. The military junta then rounded up dozens of political figures, academics and activists.

“The Australian government continues to call on the military to set a pathway for a return to democracy and the rule of law as soon as possible, to refrain from arbitrary detentions, to release those detained for political reasons and to respect human rights and fundamental freedoms.”

Thailand and Australia’s military ties date back to 1945 and the countries have engaged in a formal defence cooperation programme that involves individual training and maritime, ground and air exercises for the past four decades.

The countries also have a free trade agreement, entered into in 2005.

The Australian government said it looked forward to “normalising our relationship as soon as possible,” but added that it would continue to “review defence and other bilateral activities”.

(Reporting by Morag MacKinnon; Editing by Jeremy Laurence)

[Prbkk]

No matter how much people go on about "corruption" etc, IMO Thailand was a better and more enjoyable place before thaksin took over. Since then, crime has increased, money money money has become all they care about, and the locals have become fatter ( due to eating bad food ) and less sanuk. In short the "smile" has vanished from LOS.

Does anyone that lived in Thailand/ visited a lot during Leekpai's second term disagree?

Chuan Leekpai is still held in high regard but his government was a pathetic joke and riddled with corruption. Those were not great years for Thailand as it struggled with the Asian Economic Crisis

[englishoak]

No matter how much people go on about "corruption" etc, IMO Thailand was a better and more enjoyable place before thaksin took over. Since then, crime has increased, money money money has become all they care about, and the locals have become fatter ( due to eating bad food ) and less sanuk. In short the "smile" has vanished from LOS.

Does anyone that lived in Thailand/ visited a lot during Leekpai's second term disagree?

I agree in the 90s it was more fun, cheaper & more innocent here, then again it was a long time ago. Heres a question for you can you honestly tell me somewhere it hasnt become all about the money ? I mean west, east. Europe the US, Thailand, China, Vietnam where ever you care to look.

Back in the 90s it was the top 1% owning 50% of the worlds wealth, now its the top 0.1% owning that 50% the other 0.9% own 20% and the remaining 30% is spread around about 3 billion people.... it is the same wherever you go. The world is on fast forward and the wealth is consolidating in fewer hands every year. Sure Taksin was no better than a Gordon Geko but really hes one of many players that given the chance are just as interested in only themselves, the difference was some crumbs were scattered about for the poorer class to pick on. It wasnt like that under Leekpai for them.

You cant turn back time and we are always looking back and remembering the good old days, to go there again tho i suggest you ask the average Thai and ask them how they were getting along then. Inconvenient as it may be Thailands rural class is compared to the 90s in a far far better position than then, far better.

Or look at the rising middle class here, you see them about so much in the 90s ? I sure didnt. Face it, over the 14 years since he landed on the scene ( ok before that but not as the man) a lot has changed here and in the whole most Thai peoples lives have improved dramatically as has their earnings and their children's prospects.

The good old days are a distant memory and i realised quite a while ago it is because our earning potential and advantage allowed an easy life here on the cheap at the expense of normal underpaid overworked Thais here trying to make a living.... difference now is they are doing it to themselves. With better earnings comes that old devil debt and more debt the more you earn you can borrow... and how people just love to borrow. There wasnt credit of this magnitude back then either.

Youd be hard pushed to find people happier now than 20 years ago fulfilment wise, they have too many self made worries and mostly in the pursuit of money, because thats the new God of the 21st century... money. It is likely to burn itself out in a generation or two when it all implodes and people get tired of all the problems it brings ( i hope ) , but for now thats it.

The smile was never real in the first place but only a means to an end, your money. Clearly they are tired of smiling and just skip that bit and go right for the money. Crime btw was worse back then in bkk, not maybe for the protected species of the farang but certainly for normal Thai. It dipped in the early 2000s part cycle and part due to the 0 tolerance drug war back then and is now on the rise again,

So yea it was better back then but not for the reasoning you attribute it to the way i see it... the world has changed, i cant see how youd expect Thailand not to along with it and that is part of the problem here, its a dream that isnt possible... best left as a fond memory and move with the times.

People expect more and I see Thailand has caught up with the west 20 years ago, soon they will be looking for an answer life and fulfilment out of the rat race, exactly why i and many others came here to begin with...Ironic isnt it ?

happiest people i have ever met are those with little that know they will always have little... they make do and being sour about it wont change anything... they know it so just get on with life and find fun where they can... with expectation comes disappointment and thats what I see here and everywhere else ...expectation that for most cannot and will not ever be realised...

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"If you feeling froggy then leap"

"if you feeling froggy then leap" This coming from the lead frog There is no need for me to leap my friend, I am very comfortable here in Sedona, I travel to Thailand whenever the whim hits me, however I don't think the whim will hit me for quite some time now, at least until they clean up the political mess and have elections again

[Mackie]

No matter how much people go on about "corruption" etc, IMO Thailand was a better and more enjoyable place before thaksin took over. Since then, crime has increased, money money money has become all they care about, and the locals have become fatter ( due to eating bad food ) and less sanuk. In short the "smile" has vanished from LOS.

Does anyone that lived in Thailand/ visited a lot during Leekpai's second term disagree?

I agree in the 90s it was more fun, cheaper & more innocent here, then again it was a long time ago. Heres a question for you can you honestly tell me somewhere it hasnt become all about the money ? I mean west, east. Europe the US, Thailand, China, Vietnam where ever you care to look.

Back in the 90s it was the top 1% owning 50% of the worlds wealth, now its the top 0.1% owning that 50% the other 0.9% own 20% and the remaining 30% is spread around about 3 billion people.... it is the same wherever you go. The world is on fast forward and the wealth is consolidating in fewer hands every year. Sure Taksin was no better than a Gordon Geko but really hes one of many players that given the chance are just as interested in only themselves, the difference was some crumbs were scattered about for the poorer class to pick on. It wasnt like that under Leekpai for them....

Just out of curiosity, how did you arrive at 3 billion people? You do realize that there are 7 billion people in the world, don't you? It doesn't have to be the same wherever you go, individual countries simply can take stand and refuse to be globalized the way multinational corporations force them to do. I would loathe to see South East Asian culture being destroyed the same way European culture and heritage was. I prefer multipolar world instead of unipolar world forced upon nations.

[ABCer]

There are Good things and Bad things about this Coup, IMHO.

Good things:

International community is not alarmed;

Life in Thailand is back to 'normal';

Business, Import, Export, Baht - not affected;

Coup was bloodless, as usual;

Bad things:

In a year or two the Army will give power back to Politicians;

The pandemonium will start all over again;

19 times in the last 80 years(!) Politicians and Democracy were given a chance;

Democracy has no past, no present and no future prospects in Thailand;

These are my personal thoughts. One doesn't have to be a Nazi to see these facts.

[theoldgit]

Post breaching Forum Rules removed, as well as a number of quoted responses.

[mikemac]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/australia-cuts-ties-thailand-over-military-coup-054525669.html#Zsb6b0I

PERTH Australia (Reuters) - Australia downgraded ties with Thailand on Saturday in the wake of this month's military coup, imposing a travel ban on the junta leaders and cutting defence cooperation in some of the toughest punitive measures taken by a foreign government.

The U.S. and other foreign governments have condemned the May 22 coup, calling for a rapid return to democracy.

The Australian government said it had postponed three activities with the Thai military and would prevent the leaders of the coup from travelling to Australia as it continues to have “grave concerns” about the military's actions in Thailand.

“In line with our concerns, Australia is reducing our engagement with the Thai military and will lower the level of our interaction with the Thai military leadership,” Australia’s Foreign Minister Julie Bishop and Defence Minister David Johnston said in a joint statement.

Coup leader General Prayuth Chan-ocha said on Friday there would be no elections for at least a year, arguing reforms must come first. Reforms could only be implemented if there was peace and stability and would take about a year, he added.

The military seized power on May 22, ousting the government of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, after meetings with key figures on both sides of Thailand’s political divide failed to find a solution to a six-month political deadlock. The military junta then rounded up dozens of political figures, academics and activists.

“The Australian government continues to call on the military to set a pathway for a return to democracy and the rule of law as soon as possible, to refrain from arbitrary detentions, to release those detained for political reasons and to respect human rights and fundamental freedoms.”

Thailand and Australia’s military ties date back to 1945 and the countries have engaged in a formal defence cooperation programme that involves individual training and maritime, ground and air exercises for the past four decades.

The countries also have a free trade agreement, entered into in 2005.

The Australian government said it looked forward to “normalising our relationship as soon as possible,” but added that it would continue to “review defence and other bilateral activities”.

(Reporting by Morag MacKinnon; Editing by Jeremy Laurence)

I would not read too much into that action by the Australian government. They are a bit unpopular at the moment after releasing details of a nasty budget, and are looking for all the distractions they can find. Oldest trick in the book.

[ABCer]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"If you feeling froggy then leap"

"if you feeling froggy then leap" This coming from the lead frog There is no need for me to leap my friend, I am very comfortable here in Sedona, I travel to Thailand whenever the whim hits me, however I don't think the whim will hit me for quite some time now, at least until they clean up the political mess and have elections again

VegasVic, I'm glad you are comfy wherever you are. I'm happy to see you being occasionally hit by your whims. I'm sure you are welcome to Thailand whenever you're whimmed.

One thing I'm curious about - in which way the 'political mess they are in' impacts on your pleasures in Thailand?

Does the sea water gets too hot for you?

Is 'Tom Yam' too spicy?

Are you only using for sex girls with 'Liberal Libido'?

Or maybe the ladies here select you for a night in a strictly Democratic way?

As I said, - just being curious.

[Prbkk]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

[djjamie]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Edited June 1, 2014 by djjamie

[englishoak]

No matter how much people go on about "corruption" etc, IMO Thailand was a better and more enjoyable place before thaksin took over. Since then, crime has increased, money money money has become all they care about, and the locals have become fatter ( due to eating bad food ) and less sanuk. In short the "smile" has vanished from LOS.

Does anyone that lived in Thailand/ visited a lot during Leekpai's second term disagree?

I agree in the 90s it was more fun, cheaper & more innocent here, then again it was a long time ago. Heres a question for you can you honestly tell me somewhere it hasnt become all about the money ? I mean west, east. Europe the US, Thailand, China, Vietnam where ever you care to look.

Back in the 90s it was the top 1% owning 50% of the worlds wealth, now its the top 0.1% owning that 50% the other 0.9% own 20% and the remaining 30% is spread around about 3 billion people.... it is the same wherever you go. The world is on fast forward and the wealth is consolidating in fewer hands every year. Sure Taksin was no better than a Gordon Geko but really hes one of many players that given the chance are just as interested in only themselves, the difference was some crumbs were scattered about for the poorer class to pick on. It wasnt like that under Leekpai for them....

Just out of curiosity, how did you arrive at 3 billion people? You do realize that there are 7 billion people in the world, don't you? It doesn't have to be the same wherever you go, individual countries simply can take stand and refuse to be globalized the way multinational corporations force them to do. I would loathe to see South East Asian culture being destroyed the same way European culture and heritage was. I prefer multipolar world instead of unipolar world forced upon nations.

My mistake Mackie wrong number and couldnt edit by the time i got back to the keyboard, of course i meant 7 not 3

Thing is it will be the same wherever, the money masters will see to that and are, individual countries cannot lock themselves away and prosper, they never could and cannot see it happening now with ASEAN etc it will only get more interlinked and interdependent. Which of course is what its all about and so it will happen.

Its a globalised world, most young people arnt interested in separatism or isolation, they want to travel, they want to interact, they have nothing to remember about the old culture now only stories. Yknow when I came here there was a rich culture, it was special and unique, it was when I think back ignorance on my part thinking it was deep and thoughtful and something that should be cherished but...... and i hate to say it, it was and is unsustainable if the country is to move forwards and compete on the world stage. It cannot stay separate much as I think many countries should, Every country in SE Asia has changed drastically since i first visited them, if I had to pick one that hasnt so much that would be Laos but even that is becoming little china and Asia's las vegas

I would also hate to see Asian culture go the way of Europe but again when i actually stop and think about it ... its mearly me being steamy eyed and selfish on what i liked about the place here, its not what they want, ask most anyone ... they want it all ... all the mod cons, all the gadgets, all the fame, all the glamour... all what they are sold and told by media, ads, tv, banks, peer pressure, celebrity example, even shamed into it... people lap it up and go after what they are told to, they will only notice what they have lost once its gone... ...

i too prefer it as it was but thats just me being selfish, the reality is thats not what the majority want .. and so they will move toward what they think is better and will make them happier, it wont of course and one day will wonder what is missing deep inside they cant quite put a finger on... at which point it'll be long gone and out of their grasp.

Asia is going to be just like Europe and the west but on steroids becuase of one major difference, technology will allow it to happen for a fraction of the cost and in a fraction of the time it took us over a century... you just have to look at China over the past 20 years or look at S Korea before it or Japan before that... and they will get it too.

Hang on to your fond memories of how lovely and innocent it once was, our children wont have that luxury.

They dont want to walk about in a sarong waiing every person they meet or grovelling on their knees to elders, they dont want a samlor bicycle or tuk tuk they want aircon and comfort, they dont want to go pick up whatever is in the market at 5am they want to go shop in comfort at tescos after work, they want an expresso not a fresh opened coconut.

The reality is technology and global communication in an instant has a price and this is it and im no happier about the price i think will ultimately be paid but the genie is out the bottle and I cant see it being shoved back in ..... the only good part is where it goes into the future ... we may see a cycle and rediscovery in some distant future but I dont see it in my lifetime and im in my late 40s.

[rabas]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

Maybe you should try standing and reading a book, silently.

[Emptyset]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

[icare999]

I hope this is not against rules for comment on situation but I'm fed up with forang and foreign governments etc comparing Thailand with advanced democratic countries and claiming they know best. Withever side one may favour what can work quite well in west does not work in east. It took hundreds of years in UK and huge numbers of deaths before a system of democracy was established which could be accepted by vast majority of people. Even so corruption and IMO reduced human rights are as prevalent (but in a different form) than here.

All this nonsense comparing whats happening now with brutality as in Hunger games is just ridiculous and laughable.

In a difficult situation where their was no way different sides would not IMO fight it out which would have resulted in many many deaths at best by far IMO although not perfect it was totally necessary for Army to take control.

TO continue down path Thailand was going risked a far worse regime even possible one at least as bad as Zimbabwie which has turned a prosperous country (relatively) to misery for most of population. Other non fully democratic nations have IMO faired a lot better foe at least those not totally fanatic.

So please all you forang who just for sake oppose other side while some of points made are valid such as huge wealth gap here (same in west) and lack of some of welfare and proper education facilities enjoyed by majority (but by no means all in west, food banks , HSS lottery, school lottery etc) stop stop being so dramatic.

No way can you compare Army coup here with brutal oppression by some in other countries and as long as your not a fanatic on wither side their is little to fear regarding human rights and the rest.

Weather Thailand can profess to a more equal and fair society without having to go through bloodbaths west has had to go through remains to be seen. what is without doubt in my mind is Civil war was almost inevitable if 2 sides had continued to be allowed to go on and if Taksin and his clan and red thirt private army had got their way.

Thailand will change and has changed a lot in 30+ years I've been here and so far even with countless coups with relative little bloodshed. I say relative not none.

If alternatives are a one party Taksin police state and type of Army coup here which is what they were then I my family would choose Army anytime

[Emptyset]

And rest assured those people reading the books make up a 25% minority that DON'T support the coup ergo DON'T support reconciliation.

They will be left behind.

We are living in a state that has banned any talk that can be twisted to be against the Junta and it's coup.

The survey that said 75% of the people supported the Coup must be true and as you say that the people who said that they did support the coup are against reconciliation then that must be true as well. there is only one truth under the Military Junta.

I think Jamie must know what he's saying is ridiculous by continually repeating this 75% business. The poll was for martial law anyway, not a coup, and even in the most democratic times, when were polls thought to be conclusive indicators of public mood on here anyway? I remember when polls predicting a PT win at the last election were continually disparaged as paid for etc. But in any case, even if the poll was reasonably accurate as a gauge of what the wider population was thinking, support for martial law doesn't necessarily imply support for a coup. It wasn't clear what the military's intentions were then.

[heybruce]

No matter how much people go on about "corruption" etc, IMO Thailand was a better and more enjoyable place before thaksin took over. Since then, crime has increased, money money money has become all they care about, and the locals have become fatter ( due to eating bad food ) and less sanuk. In short the "smile" has vanished from LOS.

Does anyone that lived in Thailand/ visited a lot during Leekpai's second term disagree?

Yeah, greater economic prosperity and Thaksin teaching the majority that they can (temporarily) change the government by voting has ruined Thailand for foreigners.

My first visit to Thailand was before Thaksin was prime minister. It was cheap and fun, a no rules place supplied by an endless source of desperately poor people willing to do anything for money. For tourists and expats those were the good old days. Apparently a lot of Thai people don't remember them the same way.

[Roadman]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Finally some writers getting the reality of Thailand politics correct, and having the credibility of putting their name to their opinion.

[Emptyset]

......................"where the usual suspects post increasingly "imaginative" polemic or unrelenting adoration"......................................

And this from one of the worst red propagandists ever to post on TV, (under various noms-de-plume)

I foresee a forum where the nasty, condescending red lovers are too frightened to post. Cannot wait !

I hope I'm not the only one to find this comment very chilling.

Decent article on this theme in the BKK Post "After the coup, a spiral of silence". It discusses the bullying, threats and sanctions those in the "pro" camp may employ (and are doing already it appears) to shut those with different views up. Only thing I disagree with is that the "pro" camp are the majority. That's only assumed because they're the ones with the loudest voices at the moment, as you'd expect, given the circumstances. And it can always only be an assumption unless someone designs some sort of method in which the population gets a say on who governs them...

Edited June 1, 2014 by Emptyset