International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[brewsterbudgen]

I just cannot understand how the combined forces of the US embassy, Australian Embassy, all the other embassies who have criticized the coup, nearly 99.9% of international media, why they just cannot understand the situation like the majority of TVF members.

Coup = Good.

Perhaps the US embassy needs to put some assets up in the bars around Issan,CM and CR to touch base with some of the more opinionated coup supporters on here, so they can give the US intelligence department the heads up on where they are going wrong.

A reminder;

Governments do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksins "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London.

Turn your back on the West, and it doesn't matter what socioeconomic strategy you employ, you are a ruthless autocrat whose days are numbered. Embrace the west and as you can see you will be welcomed, forgiven, atrocities ignored all for the sake of profits. Thailand = bad coup. So one could assume that the countries you mention support a democratic system right? YET Thaksin tried to ramrod a US free trade agreement through bypassing democratic principles. He literally bypassed parliament to push it through. The USA didn't spout anti democrat then. They were watering at the mouth in anticipation of the business opportunities and profit. Democracy when it suits them.

Look at thaksin in 1991 during that coup. He didn't denounce it. He partied with the coup makers and celebrated it. Why? Profits. The birth of Shin corp and billions of baht flowed in thanks to that coup. 2006. He lost the potential to make billions. He hated that coup. 2014. He lost the potential to keep making billions. He hated that one to.

Trust me. The West don't care about this coup. They perceive they care because of the underlying interests and the facade they have to present to the world. It is a glue to hold the fragile western system in place and this is part of the show.

Of course you can take comfort in the narrative the west are spouting because it suits your agenda. You will defend it as democratic and right when all along you are being played for as a fool. $$$ my friend. That is why thaksin is loved by the west. He bent his morales in 1991 for money and the western political machine saw themselves in him. $$$ mate. Rest assured however if thaksin was a Chavez and snubbed his nose up at the west this coup would be like the Egyptian coup. A coup that restored democracy.

Don't be played the fool. Stop this roundabout and embrace reconciliation and democracy. Not at the end of a gun like under the UDD want to do it and did it for the last 6 months, but to approach reform and democracy under the guidance of the "good coup" that is making a difference. As much as you hate it and will kick and scream because an unelected criminal fugitive is not controlling the country from afar, as much as the deaths of innocents have ceased, as much as normalcy is being restored and as much as the news articles are highlighting weapons that are being removed from criminals hands, criminals being arrested and people being paid for rice. Smile be happy and know the west hate it just as thaksin did in in 2006. Because he lost the potential to make billions.

Democracy is a tool. In the wrong hands it is evil. Thaksin showed that.

The General will reform that tool to allow the next person to not hit himself in the hand next time when nailing the principles of democracy into the subframe of morale governance.

May peace and reconciliation be with you. Don't be left behind in the bitter landscapes that is the enemy of reconciliation.

Nice to see you posting about reconciliation for a change. Well done. I truly hope the General will reconcile with all sides and that a truly democratic decision can be made on Thailand's next, legitimate, government by a majority of the Thai people.

[djjamie]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.

<EDIT> In the spirit of reconciliation brewster. This one's for you.

I have caught the bug. The reconciliation bug.

Edited June 1, 2014 by djjamie

[brewsterbudgen]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.

Some people are still willing to hang their entire argument on the fact that thaksin (yes, yes, yingluck was PM) was duly elected and therefore there is no legal remedy until the next election. You know, electoral majority and all. Does this mean that the election is the only characteristic of a democracy, regardless of the regimes conduct to oppress political opposition, manipulate the constitution, violate individual rights, assassinations of opposition supporters and instigate corruption on a scale never seen before? The Thai military, backed by the people, preserved their nation, countered the regimes coup in 2011, 60 seconds after the election results, and reclaimed their country.

And now you're back to posting provocative nonsense

[northernjohn]

The BBC's Jonathan head is at it again

According tp the World Service. Bangkok sytreet are fully of soldiers confronting anti-coup demostrators!

I sthat true? I was on Sukhumvit, Silom, Satorn yesterday and saw nothing amiss?

Anybody confirm the veracity of the reporting?

A better question would be is there ever any thing with veracity from Jonathan Head.

As for confirming it you just said you were there and it was not true.

[brewsterbudgen]

The BBC's Jonathan head is at it again

According tp the World Service. Bangkok sytreet are fully of soldiers confronting anti-coup demostrators!

I sthat true? I was on Sukhumvit, Silom, Satorn yesterday and saw nothing amiss?

Anybody confirm the veracity of the reporting?

A better question would be is there ever any thing with veracity from Jonathan Head.

As for confirming it you just said you were there and it was not true.

If he'd been in Ratchaprasong or Asok he would have seen it for himself. Over 5,000 troops for about 20 protestors!

[northernjohn]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.

I think if a head of state had his head removed that would remove them from office.

Might sound ridicules but let us not forget there are people here in Thailand using that very same tactic to try to get what they want. going to be interesting what actions the new government takes when they get to that problem. Hopefully some thing different than the ones that they have being using to no avail since Thaksin stirred them up again.

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits

There are some here that need their head examined. I am not talking about the red shirt followers. They need an education.

[Mackie]

No matter what red supporters here are as negative as ever. Cheer up a bit. Why not joining the parties Thai Army organized for Thai people in Bangkok and Pathumthani. You could even get a free haircut.

It's not all gloom and doom, is it? Focus on positives.

Free medical check-up, free food and refreshments, free haircut, toys for kids etc...etc...

http://blogs.wsj.com/searealtime/2014/06/01/thai-soldiers-lay-on-garden-party-in-charm-offensive/

Edited June 1, 2014 by Mackie

[sumtingwong]

Elected criminals are still criminals and should be locked up in jail. They should not be allowed to remain in office until removed by an election.

[heybruce]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.

There are also some people here who think it's legitimate to remove a prime minister for hosting a cooking show or re-assigning a minister appointed by her predecessor. I think there should be legal means to remove heads of state for serious crimes, but not trivial offenses.

[sumtingwong]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.

There are also some people here who think it's legitimate to remove a prime minister for hosting a cooking show or re-assigning a minister appointed by her predecessor. I think there should be legal means to remove heads of state for serious crimes, but not trivial offenses.

The USA has ways of removing politicians too, some have been assassinated(was it the military?), some have been impeached for such trivial things as lying to the American people.

As an example:

Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon or Barack H Obama, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States, and to the best of his ability preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in disregard of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice in the conduct of lawful inquiries, of contravening the law of governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposes of these agencies.

[seajae]

trivial offences. lets see, they appointed the reds that were the ones calling for the killings, bombings, fires etc in Bangkok in 2010 into official govt positions even though they were facing criminal offences, issued a passport and hand delivered it to a wanted criminal then refused to issue an international arrest warrant plus they then let the same man organize and run the govt. Used mass corruption to drain Thailands finances and ran the country into the ground, never paid the rice farmers, then when they were cornered they got the reds to try top declare a northern independant state, got them to attack and kill civillian women and kids, attack any one that said anything bad about the ptp or judges that found them guilty, intimidated everyone and had the police ignore all the deaths etc caused by the reds. Yes, very trivial in deed but only to a red appologist.

[marstons]

trivial offences. lets see, they appointed the reds that were the ones calling for the killings, bombings, fires etc in Bangkok in 2010 into official govt positions even though they were facing criminal offences, issued a passport and hand delivered it to a wanted criminal then refused to issue an international arrest warrant plus they then let the same man organize and run the govt. Used mass corruption to drain Thailands finances and ran the country into the ground, never paid the rice farmers, then when they were cornered they got the reds to try top declare a northern independant state, got them to attack and kill civillian women and kids, attack any one that said anything bad about the ptp or judges that found them guilty, intimidated everyone and had the police ignore all the deaths etc caused by the reds. Yes, very trivial in deed but only to a red appologist.

Given all that bad stuff who do you think would win a Democratic election if one were to be held now.Based in this the Reds would not even figure in it.

[binjalin]

It is not 15 rules it is 15 principles.

Someone that supports democracy (not just elections) would know that.

I rest my case.

oh humble apologies...

replaced by the "15 regulations of Coup D'etat" maybe?

[heybruce]

trivial offences. lets see, they appointed the reds that were the ones calling for the killings, bombings, fires etc in Bangkok in 2010 into official govt positions even though they were facing criminal offences, issued a passport and hand delivered it to a wanted criminal then refused to issue an international arrest warrant plus they then let the same man organize and run the govt. Used mass corruption to drain Thailands finances and ran the country into the ground, never paid the rice farmers, then when they were cornered they got the reds to try top declare a northern independant state, got them to attack and kill civillian women and kids, attack any one that said anything bad about the ptp or judges that found them guilty, intimidated everyone and had the police ignore all the deaths etc caused by the reds. Yes, very trivial in deed but only to a red appologist.

Quite a jumble of charges, some of them pretty far-fetched.

Heads of states should not be removed based on charges, but on convictions of serious crimes that have made it through the legal system. In Yingluck's case the only "crime" of that nature was re-assigning a minister appointed by Abhisit, which many in Thailand and much of the outside world see as a judicial coup.

[englishoak]

Three finger salute is now banned boy whats next on the list i wonder, reading 1984 ?

One finger salute is ok though

[englishoak]

The BBC's Jonathan head is at it again

According tp the World Service. Bangkok sytreet are fully of soldiers confronting anti-coup demostrators!

I sthat true? I was on Sukhumvit, Silom, Satorn yesterday and saw nothing amiss?

Anybody confirm the veracity of the reporting?

A better question would be is there ever any thing with veracity from Jonathan Head.

As for confirming it you just said you were there and it was not true.

If he'd been in Ratchaprasong or Asok he would have seen it for himself. Over 5,000 troops for about 20 protestors!

Been chatting to brother in law right there working in Asok, indeed there were a lot of soldiers about here and there over the course of the day.. sky train hasnt been stopping at certain stations... no clashes and very overkill all of a sudden.

Seen countless pictures and vids in various areas to support this, saying its all made up is a might bit silly.

PS confirmed three finger salute now banned under official orders notice

Some forget theres a blanket ban on negative vibes already is seems.

[15Peter20]

My hope is that in 6 months time - not now (that's asking too much) - army lovers will start posting on the 300th page of this thread their queries about why no other negative sounding threads have been started since this one. After all, real and meaningful change takes time.

Edited June 1, 2014 by 15Peter20

[Roadman]

My hope is that in 6 months time - not now (that's asking too much) - army lovers will start posting on the 300th page of this thread their queries about why no other negative sounding threads have been started since this one. After all, real and meaningful change takes time.

You could quote that to anyone (Thai or Falang) living in Chun district of Phayao who has had to live under UDD rule for the last three years. The removal of their three years makes your six months a honeymoon.

[Publicus]

Three finger salute is now banned boy whats next on the list i wonder, reading 1984 ?

One finger salute is ok though

My concern is that reading 1984 will become required.

I'm reminded of the school teacher in Vichy France who was asked whether he taught the world was round or flat. "I can teach it either way," he's reported to have said.

The global headquarters of the Flat Earth Society are reportedly looking forward to a surge of membership from this region.

Yes I did say the global headquarters.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Publicus

[englishoak]

Be aware, stay away from protest gatherings, dont go anywhere near, even for a selfie, even some press are NOT actually press at all but special plain clothe units.

[rice555]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.

There are also some people here who think it's legitimate to remove a prime minister for hosting a cooking show or re-assigning a minister appointed by her predecessor. I think there should be legal means to remove heads of state for serious crimes, but not trivial offenses.

Your not telling the truth, it was not the cooking show, he lied about getting payed for it and

it's against the law to, why did the make the law, to spring it on Smaksin? You know, you were here, why are you trying to mislead from the truth??

rice666

[JAG]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

"But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years"

He was in power until the 9th of December 2013 and then in a caretaker unelectable leader capacity until the 22nd of May when the democracy restoration team came in to remove the unelected dictator.

Now he has been removed he is trying to set up HIS government in exile in Cambodia.

"Democracy restoration team...unelected dictator,"

Never too soon to start rewriting history I suppose.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[heybruce]

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

"But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years"

He was in power until the 9th of December 2013 and then in a caretaker unelectable leader capacity until the 22nd of May when the democracy restoration team came in to remove the unelected dictator.

Now he has been removed he is trying to set up HIS government in exile in Cambodia.

"Democracy restoration team...unelected dictator,"

Never too soon to start rewriting history I suppose.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Hence the references to 1984; as George Orwell clearly explained, if you want to control how people think you must control the language they use. It's amazing how people will do it to themselves. Soon the "goodthinkers" will be writing "Thaksin double ungood." Big Brother will be pleased.

[sumtingwong]

[ "Democracy Monument now -- no dramas. This may be shocking to western powers, but the reason the attacks have finally stopped is the coup d'etat. (Touch wood.)" ]

[sumtingwong]

John Kerry, U.S. Secretary of State
Dear Secretary of State:

https://www.prod.facebook.com/Arnond.s/posts/10152474018747728

[sumtingwong]

[englishoak]

And the point of posting a 6 month old vid is ? we dont need to be shown old footage which is redundant, things have moved on somewhat

[The stuttering parrot]

It's a lovely dream that reconciliation is possible but it's just that a dream.

I see some posters on here saying that the reds need to be educated and blah blah blah.

Well your not going to wipe years of resentment of the yellows out ever and I'm not saying that to inflame you guys it's just a plain fact and it's been proven over and over again and will be again once an election is called.

Yingluck is yet to be convicted of any crimes and if she us found not guilty in her upcoming case don't be surprised if she runs again for PM.

All you punters that speculated that she was going to flee the country well you were all wrong on that one.

She gas dealt with all this with dignity and grace and don't be surprised if she is part of the generals plans to reach some compromise and common ground in the way forward!

[sumtingwong]

It's a lovely dream that reconciliation is possible but it's just that a dream.

I see some posters on here saying that the reds need to be educated and blah blah blah.

Well your not going to wipe years of resentment of the yellows out ever and I'm not saying that to inflame you guys it's just a plain fact and it's been proven over and over again and will be again once an election is called.

Yingluck is yet to be convicted of any crimes and if she us found not guilty in her upcoming case don't be surprised if she runs again for PM.

All you punters that speculated that she was going to flee the country well you were all wrong on that one.

She gas dealt with all this with dignity and grace and don't be surprised if she is part of the generals plans to reach some compromise and common ground in the way forward!

I'll take that bet. "I'm your huckleberry..." - Doc Holliday, 'Tombstone' (1993) - IMDb

[smutcakes]

[ "Democracy Monument now -- no dramas. This may be shocking to western powers, but the reason the attacks have finally stopped is the coup d'etat. (Touch wood.)" ]

Yes and the attacks stopped because the protests stopped.

And one of the main reasons for the protests and hence the attacks was the divisiveness the 2006 Coup created.

When/if there is ever lifting of censorship, allowance of political gatherings, the chances are the violence will be worse, especially as it appears that this was simply a power grab and will result in them rigging sorry 'reforming' the election so only the Democrat or a military party can win regardless of votes.

It is what happens when military dictatorship tries and suppress the wishes of millions of its citizens for nefarious and transparent reasons.