Rice payments tomorrow

[northernjohn]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

"The caretaker Yingluck government was unable to seek loans to pay farmers for rice pledged under the government's populist scheme due to legal obstacles faced as a result of being a caretaker government."

In short they did not have the money or means of obtaining it so they decided to close the house down and blame the lack of ability to obtain it on the anti government protestors. There was nothing stopping them from getting the money prior to closing the house except they didn't know where to get the money from. They had already rat holed it in there off shore bank accounts. They could find nobody to loan them money on such a foolish thing so they took the only way out closed up house and pointed their finger at others.

[bangarang]

I would imagine that the farmers will be so distraught by the dismantling of the cult of Shinawatra, that they will refuse to accept the money from the general. It will be a true test of their love and level of brainwashing achieved.

Poor un-educated people are easily swayed with money. Thats how the corruption starts. They don't get money from Thaksin, and the military gives it to them now... so now they switch sides. Its not like we are dealing with a cult here.

[northernjohn]

It would appear from Wikipedia's report on "Rice Production in Thailand" that the small rice farmer's current plight is the result of government policies carried out from the 1950's to the mid 1980's. So if you want to find the culprit, ask yourself who controlled the Thai government during that time period.

Key excerpts from the Wikipedia article are as follows:

"The [Thai] government wanted to promote urban growth and one of the ways it accomplished this was by taxing the rice industry and using the money in big cities. In fact, during 1953, tax on rice accounted for 32 percent of government revenue. The government set a monopoly price on exports, which increased tax revenue and kept domestic prices low for Thailand. The overall effect was a type of income transfer from farmers to the government and to urban consumers (who purchased rice). These policies on rice were called the "rice premium," which was used until 1985 when the government finally gave into political pressure. The shift away from protecting the peasant rice farmers by the government moved the rice industry away from the egalitarian values that were enjoyed by farmers to more of a modern-day, commercial, profit-maximizing industry.

A large portion of [Thailands rapid] expansion was due to increased production of rice in northeast Thailand. While in the past, central Thailand was the main producer of rice, northeast Thailand quickly caught up to a comparable amount of production. This was in part due to the new road systems between northeast Thailand and the shipping focused cities on the coastline. The villages that had a significant portion of rice production were also changing as farmers went from more subsistence practices to mostly wage labor (exchange labor also virtually disappeared).

Cows were being replaced for tractors to work on the farm and irrigation technology was updated in most villages. The green revolution was just starting to spread among the worlds agricultural industries. Rice farmers and merchants took advantage of new rice varieties, strains, fertilizers, and other technological advances. The International Rice Research Institute (IRRI) was also disseminating knowledge, technology, new rice strains, and other information to rice producers in Thailand. From the 1950s to 1970s rice production per unit of land increased by almost 50 percent

While all of these advances helped improve overall production of rice in Thailand, many low-income farmers in Thailand were left worse off. Many peasants were unable to hold onto their land that they used to harvest rice and had to become tenants to survive. The government would always expect tax revenue, even during a bad year, and this pushed many low-income farmers even closer to the margin. New technologies also pushed up the entrance cost of rice farming and made it harder for farmers to own their land and produce rice."

"There way a massive allocation from the national budget to promptly pay the farmers and pay other costs. The fund is empty and has been for a while, and where it's all gone is an open and serious question, with suggestions of massive corruption."

Apparently the new government has frozen the bank accounts of some of the people involved in the scam and are investigating them.

Don't know for sure but is the courts still investigating the scam? Or are they shut down also.

[sweatalot]

If the army actually does pay off the farmers so quickly then its shows just how bad the Shins where are governance and good at inciting trouble... The army look like they have planned this very meticulously and yes, played Taksin at his own game... For the first time in a along while i do think Thailand has a much positive future.... Many events will shape that future but a least the evil one has been cut out of it.

You are joking............right?

tell me what is wrong with this post then...

If the Army does come up with the cash quickly, then it tells you that it was the Army or the people who control the Army that were stopping the cash from reaching the farmers in the first place.

just your biased opinion

it is not a logic consequence

and it is not true

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If the army actually does pay off the farmers so quickly then its shows just how bad the Shins where are governance and good at inciting trouble... The army look like they have planned this very meticulously and yes, played Taksin at his own game... For the first time in a along while i do think Thailand has a much positive future.... Many events will shape that future but a least the evil one has been cut out of it.

You are joking............right?

tell me what is wrong with this post then...

If the Army does come up with the cash quickly, then it tells you that it was the Army or the people who control the Army that were stopping the cash from reaching the farmers in the first place.

Rubbish, that's not true at all, nothing remotely like that.!

[sweatalot]

Please read the article again. Self explanatory.

"BAAC president Luck Wajananawat said as the Constitution has been suspended, the bank could disburse from its reserves and the farmers' fund to pay farmers at the earliest following orders from the National Council for Peace and Order."

May be this is the main reason why the constitution was suspended?

[Utley]

If the Army does come up with the cash quickly, then it tells you that it was the Army or the people who control the Army that were stopping the cash from reaching the farmers in the first place.

just your biased opinion

it is not a logic consequence

and it is not true

Thank you for setting me straight. I'll be able to sleep soundly tonight.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

It would appear from Wikipedia's report on "Rice Production in Thailand" that the small rice farmer's current plight is the result of government policies carried out from the 1950's to the mid 1980's. So if you want to find the culprit, ask yourself who controlled the Thai government during that time period.

Key excerpts from the Wikipedia article are as follows:

"The [Thai] government wanted to promote urban growth and one of the ways it accomplished this was by taxing the rice industry and using the money in big cities. In fact, during 1953, tax on rice accounted for 32 percent of government revenue. The government set a monopoly price on exports, which increased tax revenue and kept domestic prices low for Thailand. The overall effect was a type of income transfer from farmers to the government and to urban consumers (who purchased rice). These policies on rice were called the "rice premium," which was used until 1985 when the government finally gave into political pressure. The shift away from protecting the peasant rice farmers by the government moved the rice industry away from the egalitarian values that were enjoyed by farmers to more of a modern-day, commercial, profit-maximizing industry.

A large portion of [Thailands rapid] expansion was due to increased production of rice in northeast Thailand. While in the past, central Thailand was the main producer of rice, northeast Thailand quickly caught up to a comparable amount of production. This was in part due to the new road systems between northeast Thailand and the shipping focused cities on the coastline. The villages that had a significant portion of rice production were also changing as farmers went from more subsistence practices to mostly wage labor (exchange labor also virtually disappeared).

Cows were being replaced for tractors to work on the farm and irrigation technology was updated in most villages. The green revolution was just starting to spread among the worlds agricultural industries. Rice farmers and merchants took advantage of new rice varieties, strains, fertilizers, and other technological advances. The International Rice Research Institute (IRRI) was also disseminating knowledge, technology, new rice strains, and other information to rice producers in Thailand. From the 1950s to 1970s rice production per unit of land increased by almost 50 percent

While all of these advances helped improve overall production of rice in Thailand, many low-income farmers in Thailand were left worse off. Many peasants were unable to hold onto their land that they used to harvest rice and had to become tenants to survive. The government would always expect tax revenue, even during a bad year, and this pushed many low-income farmers even closer to the margin. New technologies also pushed up the entrance cost of rice farming and made it harder for farmers to own their land and produce rice."

"There way a massive allocation from the national budget to promptly pay the farmers and pay other costs. The fund is empty and has been for a while, and where it's all gone is an open and serious question, with suggestions of massive corruption."

Apparently the new government has frozen the bank accounts of some of the people involved in the scam and are investigating them.

Don't know for sure but is the courts still investigating the scam? Or are they shut down also.

"Apparently the new government has frozen the bank accounts of some of the people involved in the scam and are investigating them".

If true, good news.

"Don't know for sure but is the courts still investigating the scam? Or are they shut down also".

The coup has not touched the courts, they are all still operating as normal.

Edited May 25, 2014 by scorecard

[Thailand]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

The money that should have been paid to the farmers mysteriously disappeared, so the ex-government tried to grab replacement funds from anywhere they could find them and were told that they could not extract funds from places such as the bank's liquidity fund.

Nobody has indicated that the rice scam is suddenly okay. It remains an outrageous populist policy which will no doubt be abandoned, or at least drastically reformed.

What General Prayuth is doing is simply making sure that those who were made to suffer from it do not have to suffer any longer...!!

And it was here all the time- The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) - who would have thought it. Almost as if some force was trying to prevent the ex gov paying the farmers.

Nah, too far fetched for something like that to happen!

[antimedia]

Kittisak, however, expressed concern that more than 90 per cent of farmers may not have enough money to pay debts. He said during the eight-month period that the caretaker government had failed to pay farmers the money, they were forced to seek shark loans

The very next thing that needs to be done is to invite all the loan sharks for a nice friendly talk and gently persuade them to forego all interest charges for the sake of the poor embattled farmers and I am quite sure that these honest business people will be only too happy to co-operate and I believe they would be willing to name their partners from the police force.

[bigbamboo]

Kittisak, however, expressed concern that more than 90 per cent of farmers may not have enough money to pay debts. He said during the eight-month period that the caretaker government had failed to pay farmers the money, they were forced to seek shark loans

The very next thing that needs to be done is to invite all the loan sharks for a nice friendly talk and gently persuade them to forego all interest charges for the sake of the poor embattled farmers and I am quite sure that these honest business people will be only too happy to co-operate and I believe they would be willing to name their partners from the police force.

If they manage that then we really will be getting somewhere.

[attento]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

That is assuming the ex government was being honest about funds not being available ....

[MaxLee]

Well how about catching the white liar Kittirat....

[attento]

Maybe a bad move for Army to honour the ex-government bribes.

Establishing precedents.

Next time Thaksin's party is back in power, cynically they can make even bigger bribes, knowing they wont ever repay, and leave that to the inevitable Coup that would follow, to settle their debt, yet again.

Why not leave the Thaksin bribe unfulfilled. Then the poor farmers might remember who is the cause of their plight.

The poorest farmers should unquestionably be helped, but by finding a different and openly honest way of doing so.

Edited May 25, 2014 by attento

[rubl]

Determined to drive a wedge between Thaksin and one of his largest group of supporters.

Playing Thaksin at his own game. Interesting.

Being somewhat naive at times I'm just glad the farmers will finally get paid.

BTW in December the then caretaker government wanted to 'borrow' 130 billion. now we have 100 billion already paid and 90 billion more to go. Anyone who can explain the 60 billion difference?

[edwinchester]

Maybe a bad move for Army to honour the ex-government bribes.

Establishing precedents.

Next time Thaksin's party is back in power, cynically they can make even bigger bribes, knowing they wont ever repay, and leave that to the inevitable Coup that would follow, to settle their debt, yet again.

Why not leave the Thaksin bribe unfulfilled. Then the poor farmers might remember who is the cause of their plight.

The poorest farmers should unquestionably be helped, but by finding a different and openly honest way of doing so.

It wasn't a bribe. It is a debt owed for rice pledged to the Govt scheme. A crop now owned by the military who are in power.

I don't agree with the coup but if the Junta have the funds they are doing the hounourable thing repaying what has been owed for up to 7 or 8 months to poor farmers.

I live in a rice farmer village and the unjust hardship they have had forced upon them is terrible.

To suggest nonpayment as a way to teach them some kind of lesson smacks of meaness and vindictiveness.

[wabothai]

at gunpoint the farmers get paid ! I am very happy for the farmers but it has nothing to do with democracy, rather a game.

[wabothai]

There are regulations regarding the use of money. The Yingluck administration had to deal with the availability of funds set forth. As stated on the original article, because the Constitution was suspended, only could the military withdraw any funds as they wish. There would be no restrictions in place. So those who wondered why the Yingluck administration couldn't provide the money and the army could, this is the simple answer. There are laws governing the allocation of money.

On a side note, those cheering for General Prayuth's payments to the farmers as a good sign. Keep in mind, regulations were in force for a reason, to ensure economic stability. A simple example, if a bank is allowed a 0.9 ratio as set by the central bank of Thailand. If a bank has 10,000,000 million in deposits by customers, they can only loan out 9,000,000. This margin of safety allows for any doubtful accounts to not influence the standing foundation of the bank and prevent a collapse. People make mistakes and calculations, and reserves will serve as a back up net.

While I support the intentions of the general, he may not be experienced enough in the economic market. 35 Billion is still needed after the 55billion drawn up. The army will speak to financial institution heads this coming week. Those that agreed to provide the money for the farmers, will immediately see my funds removal from their banks, and my stocks withdrawn from those particular banks. There is no fundamental backing behind those money given to the farmers. Taking money from customers of the banks and the banks money to repay for a cause inflicted by YL with no responsibility. It would have been more righteous to freeze her assets and to use those money to pay for the farmers. Why us? Those banks who will agree to let the money out, will be doing it illegally if there was a constitution in place. How will they explain this transaction? A donation with customer's funds?

gunpoint !!!!

[wabothai]

the farmers had to have a university education to understand the scheme. Now, who did and manipulated?

[BadBouy]

Well, I certainly hope they do do pay some of what was promised to the farmers.

But, being cynical, I still don't believe it.

Not that I don't believe the new Junta doesn't honestly mean they want to pay the farmers, but frankly, where is the money going to come from?

If they can actually sell some of the old stockpiled Rice, even from this year's harvest ...... the real problem is that the Rice subsidy is still selling Rice at below market price.... or at least the pledge price they offered.

Maybe I'm a fool, and I don't understand this "new economics", but in my "old economics" if you buy something, then pay to store it for a couple of years, and then sell it for less than you bought it for in the first place ...... aren't you losing money?

Now hasn't that been the real problem of the Rice scheme all along?

So far most of the money allotted for the Rice scheme has been going to the people who have stored the Rice in their warehouses for 3 or 4 years already.

And it has NOT gone to farmers it was supposed to but the Rice merchants who are storing the Rice.

Unless the Rice is sold, those merchants who have the Rice in storage will be the one's who benefit and. as usual not the farmers who produced the Rice.

But, hey, what do I know anyhow.

Unfortunately this years crop will only add to the pile making the price of rice drop. Those who thought this scheme up should be forced to toil in rice fields for the rest of their miserable existence.

[kieran2698]

Absolutely no excuse for not paying the farmers....

Apart from the blatant effort from the opposition to ensure that they could not be paid.

Being a caretaker government is a good excuse, but only for the last couple month. Why was it not taken care of before? I understand farmers waited since October or November.

Fact remains, id you promise somebody to buy their goods well over their value, it will cost you money. So better make sure you have the funds before making such promise.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If you remember before the stop Bangkok movement began, there was a deal in the pipeline with China, as soon as this was made public the protests started and China pulled out announcing their reason to be the lack of stability in Thailand.

[Robby nz]

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

The money that should have been paid to the farmers mysteriously disappeared, so the ex-government tried to grab replacement funds from anywhere they could find them and were told that they could not extract funds from places such as the bank's liquidity fund.

Nobody has indicated that the rice scam is suddenly okay. It remains an outrageous populist policy which will no doubt be abandoned, or at least drastically reformed.

What General Prayuth is doing is simply making sure that those who were made to suffer from it do not have to suffer any longer...!!

And it was here all the time- The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) - who would have thought it. Almost as if some force was trying to prevent the ex gov paying the farmers.

Nah, too far fetched for something like that to happen!

There was indeed a force, it is called the law.

That force did not prevent the bank from paying out.

The bank was working on commission as an agent for the PT Govt and could only pay out what they were given to pay out.

What prevented the bank from paying out was that they were not given the money to pay out.

The PT caretaker Govt could not borrow money to give to the bank because they were prevented from doing so by the law.

That is the very basics of the problem and there is much more to it than that.

If you had been following this as several of us have you would know about these things,

That the bank can pay out now is because of 2 things.

1/ they set up 3 funds where the public could donate and invest to help the farmers, these fund I hear now stands at around 10 billion and will be now paid to the farmers.

2/ Now the constitution has been supended the General in charge he has given the BAAC permission to use their own reserve funds and this will bring the total they have on hand to pay out to 55 billion.

The remaining 25 billion to make up the 80 billion will be obtained either from the central budget fund or from loans.

The farmers will be paid

[a99az]

How stupidly cleaver of the General to make a payment to the farmers that should ensure him some support from the one place that he needs most, the hart of the red country. Chuck them a few crumbs to day and screw it back out of them tomorrow.

[ianf]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

I suppose it can be said this is a debt incurred by the Thai government which still has to be discharged. Imagine the mayhem if the farmers were told they would not be paid.

Next question is will the scheme be scaled back or abandoned completely ?

I sincerely hope that this scheme will be immediately abandoned. It was ill-intentioned from day 1. Thaksin's scheming brain had decided that by storing the rice and withdrawing it from the world market then the world trade price would go beyond the 15k baht per ton, the government would then release the rice onto the world market at a higher price: Hey profit all around and more cash in Thaksin's pocket along with the votes that this scheme would have garnered. No such luck and if his scheme had worked, the poor people would have had to pay much more for their staple diet - so a pretty nasty mess all around. Thaksin bets with people's basic commodity. yes. Thaksin thinks and got it wrong yet again. All of his schemes were short termism vote buyng. Nothing was costed or analysed.

[wolf5370]

Well, I certainly hope they do do pay some of what was promised to the farmers.

But, being cynical, I still don't believe it.

Not that I don't believe the new Junta doesn't honestly mean they want to pay the farmers, but frankly, where is the money going to come from?

If they can actually sell some of the old stockpiled Rice, even from this year's harvest ...... the real problem is that the Rice subsidy is still selling Rice at below market price.... or at least the pledge price they offered.

Maybe I'm a fool, and I don't understand this "new economics", but in my "old economics" if you buy something, then pay to store it for a couple of years, and then sell it for less than you bought it for in the first place ...... aren't you losing money?

Now hasn't that been the real problem of the Rice scheme all along?

So far most of the money allotted for the Rice scheme has been going to the people who have stored the Rice in their warehouses for 3 or 4 years already.

And it has NOT gone to farmers it was supposed to but the Rice merchants who are storing the Rice.

Unless the Rice is sold, those merchants who have the Rice in storage will be the one's who benefit and. as usual not the farmers who produced the Rice.

But, hey, what do I know anyhow.

Well I can think of 3 places that money ahs been saved already - no need to pay politicians wages, as the military are on their original pay anyway - closure of those pointless navy games in the Pacific (after the Yanks pulled out) and not having to buy God knows how many US planes, tanks and guns in exchange for the 10m baht "aid" agreement that the USA also just pulled out of. Not to mention how much money is going to be found in ex-ministerial homes and bank accounts that cannot be accounted for (and was not declared). I am thinking they will end up in profit over all - re-freezing of any Thaksin account unfrozen under PTP as well as those of YL and other leaders (one of which left billions laying around his house if we remember).

[ianf]

How stupidly cleaver of the General to make a payment to the farmers that should ensure him some support from the one place that he needs most, the hart of the red country. Chuck them a few crumbs to day and screw it back out of them tomorrow.

That's certainly one take on this situation - a negative take off course.

How about this for an alternative & positive take:

The General genuinely cares about the people of his country and decided that the farmers had suffered enough and that urgent humanitarian action was needed.

I think this alternative view will find more sympathy with us farang Thai Visa bods.

[MobileContent]

BP says the money will be paid in one month and not tomorrow. Time will tell but the Bangkok elite sure doesn't want to pay off the farmers. It will be paid by the Ministry of FInance that needs 30 days to get the funds and only Buddha knows how much will be stolen away before the farmers get paid. Same same - new government same money politics.

[wolf5370]

GREAT! Ok, and NOW put an order in place that stops loan sharking. Make it possible, with military help, to clear debts at 0% interest. These parasites of society have been sucking the blood and adding to the plight of the poor far too long. They are all from rich chinese thai families. Like nim see saeng and what have you in the North. Do it NOW! Stop this evil machinery!

The brother of an old friend of mine - a British Thai (nor Farang-Noi, fully Thai with Thai family, but lived in the UK from a few years old) - came to Thailand a few years ago for just six months or so. He brought with him a few grand sterling, but had family connections here to borrow more at no interest. He set up a loan shark business. Six months latter he handed it over to a family member and went home to the UK having made a small fortune allowing him to set up a business back in the UK, buy a new house (just outside of London) and a Merc and still have a nice size bank account. No idea how he got the money out of Thailand though (think it was through the old boys network - i.e. hand the money to a Thai in Thailand and a wealthy Thai in the UK pays it back out minus commission in sterling). He said it was real easy, just hired a few guys to advertise the loans, and do the collections (intimidation as needed) and pay them a 10% commission on daily collections - never short of candidates. BTW this was in Isaan, not going to narrow it further - powerful family.

[Robby nz]

How stupidly cleaver of the General to make a payment to the farmers that should ensure him some support from the one place that he needs most, the hart of the red country. Chuck them a few crumbs to day and screw it back out of them tomorrow.

That's certainly one take on this situation - a negative take off course.

How about this for an alternative & positive take:

The General genuinely cares about the people of his country and decided that the farmers had suffered enough and that urgent humanitarian action was needed.

I think this alternative view will find more sympathy with us farang Thai Visa bods.

Wasn't really that either mate.

The fact is that it is a debt the country owes to over a million of its citizens which the country has to pay sooner or later.

At this point it is really academic who ran up that debt it still has to be paid regardless.

We are told that debt is 80 billion.

When it is paid it will be an injection into the rural economy which will filter down to those the farmers have to pay.

In other words it will stimulate the rural economic.

So paying it as soon as possible not only helps the farmers but helps the country as well

[schietkop]

Well, I certainly hope they do do pay some of what was promised to the farmers.

But, being cynical, I still don't believe it.

Not that I don't believe the new Junta doesn't honestly mean they want to pay the farmers, but frankly, where is the money going to come from?

If they can actually sell some of the old stockpiled Rice, even from this year's harvest ...... the real problem is that the Rice subsidy is still selling Rice at below market price.... or at least the pledge price they offered.

Maybe I'm a fool, and I don't understand this "new economics", but in my "old economics" if you buy something, then pay to store it for a couple of years, and then sell it for less than you bought it for in the first place ...... aren't you losing money?

Now hasn't that been the real problem of the Rice scheme all along?

So far most of the money allotted for the Rice scheme has been going to the people who have stored the Rice in their warehouses for 3 or 4 years already.

And it has NOT gone to farmers it was supposed to but the Rice merchants who are storing the Rice.

Unless the Rice is sold, those merchants who have the Rice in storage will be the one's who benefit and. as usual not the farmers who produced the Rice.

But, hey, what do I know anyhow.

So in the end when there is a loss of this scheme, it will be billed to the Thai tax payers, as it happens elsewhere in the world. They are also the loosers not only the farmers.