Iranian, American teenagers electrocuted at swimming pool of Bangkok condominium

[RigPig]

Sad story, but there's seomthing odd about it. "Hosseini tried to pull him from the lamp pole but the two were electrocuted."

If this was AC power, don't you get thrown away from the thing you touch? With DC power you get stuck to the item you touched, as does anyone who touches you. Doesn't this imply the pool lamp was DC?

Why would the pool lighting be DC?

Most all DC lighting is 24 Volts, one would have to be hyper sensitive to feel it! AND YES, pool lighting is normally 24 VDC in any sort of reasonably well engineered situation whether it be sub surface, decorative or surround..

No ones fault but TOTAL ignorance on both parts.

No one has said yet why you touch it with the back of your hand... Anyone actually know (not you Crossy hahaha).

[brewsterbudgen]

sympathies to the families, again we see the thai "electricians" quality of work, if you can move your fingers you qualify but then this applies to all aspects of building

Sad that some people will use any occasion, no matter how sad, as an opportunity to bash Thais.

Although this could happen in many other 2nd and 3rd world countries, it would not occur in a developed country without serious prison time and monumental compensation. Unfortunately it is a trait common amongst the Thais that makes this kind of thing unimportant, tolerable and even excusable. It is a global developmental issue, it is not Thai bashing. It is critical, yes, and so it should be.

It is indeed riskier living here. Whether it be from road accidents, fires or electrocution anyone living in Thailand, or similar countries, needs to be aware. A very sad incident.

[Artisi]

You people make me laugh !!!

Look at your own houses, I am an Electrical Field Foreman in Saudi Arabia in charge of 6 oil rigs, I DO understand electricity. How many of you have appliances with the 2 round pins and the hole in it for the Earth connection (which can't connect) and still use them?

Do you REALLY expect Somchai, from the rice paddy to understand electricity? He is all you are going to get for 200 to 500 baht a day. There are electricians in this country who actually know what they are doing but hey are making $4000 a month.

You want European standards and safety but don't want to pay for it !! And on top of that you wont use your own common sense to ensure your own safety !!!

Well guess what YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR !!

I am in the process of helping a friend have his house wired and although the electrician doesn't seem stupid, his lack of understanding is mind boggling, he didn't even know you could solder wires to make a join !! (until I showed him).

The price of a combined MCB (Miniature Circuit Breaker) / RCD (Residual Current Device) in this country is more than double of that in Australia, and I am talking $40 to $110, no wonder no one uses them !! (I have done the home work and have both quotes). Trying to buy stranded cables here (which are the norm now in Australia) is not impossible but it as sure as Dickin's isn't easy I still haven't got it in my hand yet).

The power distribution system in this country from my own observation is actually very good. Too good, the transformers are grounded. The "mess" you see out there is the telecommunications system, not electric. They actually have standards, and appear to follow them. The problem is there appears to be no standards for the home, after the meter it is a "free for all". If I am wrong and someone has a copy of household electrical standards PLEASE send them to me.

So how much is your life worth? Would you pay $100 for a DOT approved helmet when you ride your bike? or do you wear an ice cream bucket because you can? Would you pay me my travelling and accommodation costs from Phuket and let's say $50 an hour to make sure your electrical installation is safe (not fixing it just inspecting and testing it)?

I am VERY sorry that 2 young lives were taken before their time , but ALL of you are just a culpable, put up or shut up !!! Don't just turn a blind eye, do something about it !! Put your money where your mouth is......

I did, fully earthed system, RCBO on all power circuits, no twisted and taped joints, switched GPO's and no back-chat from the electrician who did the work (well qualified and understands what is what but still tried to short cut a few things).

[Bangmod]

Safety first, something thailand is famous for..........

[The Usual Suspect]

the first thing I did when settled into out home here in Thailand was install core balance, not that expensive

Thai wife could not see it worth and her mother thought it was a waste of money (any thing you can not spend or eat has little value)

1 months ago my wifes friend came over with her 3 year old and decided to see if a metal rod will fit inside and electric power socket 1st thing she knew was the power went out all through the house, then found the child playing with the socket

Wife/s Friend believes it was her mother ghost that turned off the power before the baby put in the metal spike

what we take for granted, Thai culture sees so little value in things that may save lives

Only things that makes them wake up, is when they must pay big money for something that would have cost little money in the beginning

In Thailand I always touch any thing metal with the back of my hand first

I tell my Thai wife, who used to believe cheapest is best, "smile now, cry later". At first she didn't understand, until I started to show her things around her parents house that had to be constantly replaced because they buy the cheapest crap they can find. Now, when I say that, she understands. What's really funny though, the other day we had to choose between a cheap blender and a more expensive, high quality, durable one, she said, "cry now, smile later". Gotta love it!

[kannot]

In Thailand it seems 2 wires good, three wires bad,this is not the

first time this has happened at a swimming pool,and it wont be the

last unfortunately,RIP young lads,you lost your lives because

someone did not do the job properly.

regards worgeordie

and dont forget "any colour wire will do"

[GAS]

Just re did my condo with a full remodel, thanks to many members on here like Crossy and others in the electrial forum my place is pretty safe. All grounded, 3 prong outlets, RCB on outlets in bath etc. Not that hard to do but it did cost a bit more, luckily my mech contractor had a good electrician and they did a good job.

[dhrobertson]

An insensitive post removed.

Until some form of liability legislation is brought in and enforced, this type of 'accident' will continue.

Two more young lives lost, nothing will happen

Thai code does not permit 220V luminaires anyware close to a pool or water feature (I'll spare you the details)

Sadly the regs are not enforced and statutory inspections are not a requirement.

I suspect that it will not be long before internet booking companies will drive change before the law changes.

[pitrevie]

Sad loss but also worth mentioning that these regulations are enforced where most of us come from by governments that are often accused of being a nanny state. Since I used to do electrical work in the UK, regulations have been tightened immeasurably often in the face of opposition that is opposed to regulation often citing increased costs.

[pitrevie]

Sad loss but also worth mentioning that these regulations are enforced where most of us come from by governments that are often accused of being a nanny state. Since I used to do electrical work in the UK, regulations have been tightened immeasurably often in the face of opposition that is opposed to regulation often citing increased costs.

[masuk]

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

So sad to read news like this. We take for granted that electrical safety has been attended to, but obviously not.

Do buildings have "standards' for wiring, and if so, who checks? I know this sounds rather hopeful, but the only thing that might draw the attention of hotel and condo owners, as some has suggested, is to drag them into court.

The present wiring standards are about 100 years old. Two wires for everything, from arc welders to washing machines, household goods.

As I've said in the past, there isn't even a standard for plugs for household items, and I've seen at least five types in electrical shops.

[Nemesis7]

Sad event. RIP young men. Sorry had to go like this.

[emilymat]

sympathies to the families, again we see the thai "electricians" quality of work, if you can move your fingers you qualify but then this applies to all aspects of building

Sad that some people will use any occasion, no matter how sad, as an opportunity to bash Thais.

I honestly don't think it's simple Thai bashing as you imply.

I have always been amazed by the number of advertisements that say "European quality at Thai prices". That seems to suggest to me there is often a recognition that the 'quality' is broadly substandard on the industry being advertised, usually building etc.

[RigPig]

You people make me laugh !!!

Look at your own houses, I am an Electrical Field Foreman in Saudi Arabia in charge of 6 oil rigs, I DO understand electricity. How many of you have appliances with the 2 round pins and the hole in it for the Earth connection (which can't connect) and still use them?

Do you REALLY expect Somchai, from the rice paddy to understand electricity? He is all you are going to get for 200 to 500 baht a day. There are electricians in this country who actually know what they are doing but hey are making $4000 a month.

You want European standards and safety but don't want to pay for it !! And on top of that you wont use your own common sense to ensure your own safety !!!

Well guess what YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR !!

I am in the process of helping a friend have his house wired and although the electrician doesn't seem stupid, his lack of understanding is mind boggling, he didn't even know you could solder wires to make a join !! (until I showed him).

The price of a combined MCB (Miniature Circuit Breaker) / RCD (Residual Current Device) in this country is more than double of that in Australia, and I am talking $40 to $110, no wonder no one uses them !! (I have done the home work and have both quotes). Trying to buy stranded cables here (which are the norm now in Australia) is not impossible but it as sure as Dickin's isn't easy I still haven't got it in my hand yet).

The power distribution system in this country from my own observation is actually very good. Too good, the transformers are grounded. The "mess" you see out there is the telecommunications system, not electric. They actually have standards, and appear to follow them. The problem is there appears to be no standards for the home, after the meter it is a "free for all". If I am wrong and someone has a copy of household electrical standards PLEASE send them to me.

So how much is your life worth? Would you pay $100 for a DOT approved helmet when you ride your bike? or do you wear an ice cream bucket because you can? Would you pay me my travelling and accommodation costs from Phuket and let's say $50 an hour to make sure your electrical installation is safe (not fixing it just inspecting and testing it)?

I am VERY sorry that 2 young lives were taken before their time , but ALL of you are just a culpable, put up or shut up !!! Don't just turn a blind eye, do something about it !! Put your money where your mouth is......

I did, fully earthed system, RCBO on all power circuits, no twisted and taped joints, switched GPO's and no back-chat from the electrician who did the work (well qualified and understands what is what but still tried to short cut a few things).

WELL done, you would be one of the few, did they ground the light fittings too? I have yet to see that happen over here, they usually just run a twin cable? What is the resistance between all of your grounds and the earth rod? it should be .5 of an ohm or less. Did they perform an earth loop impedance test on the ground system?

Don't forget, driving more ground rods is not the answer, there should only be one point of grounding the installation. More ground rods can actually create a hazard.

WHY DO WE NEED GROUNDING? 80% of electrical fatalities happen because of the ground system, so if we didn't have it then all of those people would have lived. We used to use isolating transformers on building sites for that reason. Te problem is WE DO HAVE GROUNDING, and because of this if it is not done correctly, someone will die.

[dhrobertson]

Sad story, but there's seomthing odd about it. "Hosseini tried to pull him from the lamp pole but the two were electrocuted."

If this was AC power, don't you get thrown away from the thing you touch? With DC power you get stuck to the item you touched, as does anyone who touches you. Doesn't this imply the pool lamp was DC?

Why would the pool lighting be DC?

Most all DC lighting is 24 Volts, one would have to be hyper sensitive to feel it! AND YES, pool lighting is normally 24 VDC in any sort of reasonably well engineered situation whether it be sub surface, decorative or surround..

Wiring codes require all electrical equipment within safety zones surrounding pools or water features to be extra low voltage (less than 50V ac or 20V dc) from a safety isolation transformer and no ground.

There is no human reflex response to electric shock. You have to think about disconnecting.

[dhrobertson]

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

So sad to read news like this. We take for granted that electrical safety has been attended to, but obviously not.

Do buildings have "standards' for wiring, and if so, who checks? I know this sounds rather hopeful, but the only thing that might draw the attention of hotel and condo owners, as some has suggested, is to drag them into court.

The present wiring standards are about 100 years old. Two wires for everything, from arc welders to washing machines, household goods.

As I've said in the past, there isn't even a standard for plugs for household items, and I've seen at least five types in electrical shops.

Thai EIT code 2013 is the latest

sockets must be 3-pin

sparks here are not trained or coded

no compulsory certification

[RigPig]

An insensitive post removed.

Until some form of liability legislation is brought in and enforced, this type of 'accident' will continue.

Two more young lives lost, nothing will happen

Thai code does not permit 220V luminaires anyware close to a pool or water feature (I'll spare you the details)

Sadly the regs are not enforced and statutory inspections are not a requirement.

I suspect that it will not be long before internet booking companies will drive change before the law changes.

What regs? What standards? If you have them where can I obtain a copy send me a link anything, I will even pay to have them translated if necessary, I have been trying for 10 years to get a copy, and I have come to the conclusion there are none relating to house holds, only on the distribution side. It stops at the meter from what I can see!!

[RigPig]

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

So sad to read news like this. We take for granted that electrical safety has been attended to, but obviously not.

Do buildings have "standards' for wiring, and if so, who checks? I know this sounds rather hopeful, but the only thing that might draw the attention of hotel and condo owners, as some has suggested, is to drag them into court.

The present wiring standards are about 100 years old. Two wires for everything, from arc welders to washing machines, household goods.

As I've said in the past, there isn't even a standard for plugs for household items, and I've seen at least five types in electrical shops.

Thai EIT code 2013 is the latest

sockets must be 3-pin

sparks here are not trained or coded

no compulsory certification

Thai EIT code 2013, first I've heard of it where can I get a copy?

[Teddy3943]

The usual lack of sufficient knowledge by the constructors of electrical installations. No or not functioning Earth Leak Breaker. Especially the cicuit group of a wet envirenment needs extra attention. Who is checking and testing after construction? No one!!! Human lives are worthless in LOS.

Unimaginable sadness for their family knowing that this accident could have been avoided by skilled professional constructors. But most of the "electricians" are uneducated cheap Esaan boys who only have learned to discriminate riceplants from grass.

R.i.p.

[gigman]

 

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

 


Yes I fully agree...
This is not acceptable to allow electrical devices to be connected to swimming pool or wet areas without safety fusses.Such simple device can control whole house or just single electric point.
Those devices are so cheap this days.In Australia by law every house must have it.
Yes those families should sue the management and even go to higher instances ...
Someone should blow the whistle because if they do not care much about own people safety then at least tourists should feel safe here in public place specially swimming pools.
Another good example is millions of shower heater which very quickly could become a killing machine because more and more are hooked to plastic water pipes where is no proper earthing and grounding source.(older housing still have metal type pipes and is less chance to be electrocuted but still is possible to get killed)

Edited May 30, 2014 by gigman

[CharlesHH]

Many many electric items in Thailand are not grounded. Only two wires, measuring 220VAC across them, are often used and either wire can measure 220VAC to a real earth ground. That is what the wet boy provided. I wish his friend was awake in health class when taught to use a non-conducive pole or whatever... a wooden chair, for example, to push the victim loose.

[dhrobertson]

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

So sad to read news like this. We take for granted that electrical safety has been attended to, but obviously not.

Do buildings have "standards' for wiring, and if so, who checks? I know this sounds rather hopeful, but the only thing that might draw the attention of hotel and condo owners, as some has suggested, is to drag them into court.

The present wiring standards are about 100 years old. Two wires for everything, from arc welders to washing machines, household goods.

As I've said in the past, there isn't even a standard for plugs for household items, and I've seen at least five types in electrical shops.

Thai EIT code 2013 is the latest

sockets must be 3-pin

sparks here are not trained or coded

no compulsory certification

Thai EIT code 2013, first I've heard of it where can I get a copy?

Chula university bookshop Siam Square area

300 TBT Thai language but you can read the numbers I'm sure

At that price, provincial governors could give them out for free........

Moving gradually away from American NEC roots to IEC 60364 which is much more sensible given no minal voltage here is 380/220V

For most people, order up a copy of the 17th edition BS7671:2008 still the gold standard since 1882! (only 4000 TBT a copy)

[dhrobertson]

Moderator,

As in the past following electrical accidents. dangerous advice from amateur electricians appears

Health warning would be a good move.........

[Artisi]

Swimming pool with high voltage lighting, no RCDs, no earthing - An accident waiting to happen. When will these people ever learn?

Never, as a RCD / RCBO probably costs about Bht 3000 - much too expensive to even consider for saving a life.

What a sad story

Don´t forget that it´s not just the presence of saftey equipment, it also has to be installed correctly and needs maintenance. Most workers are NOT qualified and everyone can do everything!

This is where all the "mai ben rai" leads in the end......loss of life.

Maintenance, what does that mean?

Doesn't the mind boggle if you think about Thailand with nuclear power stations and high speed train systems.

[attrayant]

Did they die?

"Electrocuted" means death from electricity, so yes they did. If they had been hit by electricity but survived, the correct term would be "shocked".

As part of my physics class, I teach electrical safety and I usually reference stories like these. It's a very sad state of affairs that there's always a fresh story to show the students.

[JesseFrank]

Horrendous.

Safety first. And I hope the families sue the hell out of the condo management. It might create a small change in the understanding for liability in public places.

And if they're found guilty they will probably sentenced to a fine of 1000 Baht.

[gigman]

Sad story, but there's seomthing odd about it. "Hosseini tried to pull him from the lamp pole but the two were electrocuted."

If this was AC power, don't you get thrown away from the thing you touch? With DC power you get stuck to the item you touched, as does anyone who touches you. Doesn't this imply the pool lamp was DC?

Why would the pool lighting be DC?

Most all DC lighting is 24 Volts, one would have to be hyper sensitive to feel it! AND YES, pool lighting is normally 24 VDC in any sort of reasonably well engineered situation whether it be sub surface, decorative or surround..

Yes you are right and wrong!

Mostly they are 24 Volts lamps for swimming pools ((but if no LCD (newest) then those lamps are AC mate. Secondly those lamps are supplied with transformer 220/240 /24 or 12 volts.

If transformer is not properly earthed or grounded then is same potential killer even is designed to separate main power....

12 Volts or 24 LCD are also designed to be supplied by AC power after transformer and this type of lamp have in build rectifier ....(rectifier is changing AC to DC ) to easy adopt old lamp system to new LCD type.

Every power supply is AC (alternative current ) DC is just simply saying - direct current like in your battery.

Sorry but you have watched to many movies where people are electrocuted and being thrown away ..... it is not real case scenario..

For those who want to see the effect of being killed by electric power just watch this real scenario video.....be prepare this video is really shocking.

http://youtu.be/tSM_iWkWhVQ (4 painter killed in the same time)

Regards

Gigman

[TerrylSky]

Evidently the victims have deceased, but it never says that in the article. I get electrocuted now and then and I think I'm still here.

Condolences to the families. Congrats to their attorneys.

[atyclb]

Swimming pool with high voltage lighting, no RCDs, no earthing - An accident waiting to happen. When will these people ever learn?

When you ask, IMO, when it snows in Bangkok.

Part of the culture is inability to learn (exceptions noted)

[attrayant]

Thai EIT code 2013, first I've heard of it where can I get a copy?

I have this bookmarked after finding it in another thread: http://www.crossy.co.uk/Handy%20Files/groundwire.pdf

I'm not sure if that's an official document or not; the clip art makes it look like training material.