Share your problems of recruiting decent Thai staff

[pinkpanther99]

I hate to get into Thai bashing but I'm just about at my wits end with this.

I want to know if other foreign business owners in Thailand are going through the same problems as me with regards to recruiting Thai staff and about the pressures that farang owned businesses are put under to meet the Thai/farang quota for work permits.

We're a farang owned business, therefore we need to employ a certain number of Thai staff to meet our quota for our work permits.

However, it is so difficult to find skilled Thai staff, who are able to use their initiative, think for themselves, work hard and meet deadlines. That's before we even try and get through any communication issues.

So far this year our office has been like a revolving door with our Thai staff, despite offering good salaries, good working conditions, free lunch and coffee and flexible working hours.

Most recently, the latest one to go was a graphic designer who spoke excellent English, promised everything and delivered nothing. The final straw came when I asked him why he hadn't sent me a document which he had already missed two deadlines for as I need to send it to the printers for mass production. His response was that he didn't know how to attached a document in Gmail. I mean really...what can you do?

When I eventually got hold of the document after getting it from his desktop myself, the design is not of a particularly good standard.

Don't even get me started on Thai web developers or programmers.

So now I'll have to waste another month recruiting someone, letting them settle in and seeing how they work out. That's if they don't just disappear after pay day, never to be seen again.

Another one - we once had another member of staff who told me she needed 3 days off because her mother had died. Of course I said, take as long as you need and let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. 5 days later she turned up for work. I welcomed her back. Later that evening after her first day back, as she finished work, who should pull up at the end of the road to pick her up, but the only the mother who was meant to have died 3 days earlier!!

We also spoke to a girl last week who was meant to come for an interview at 10am on Tuesday. At 10:50am, her friend finally called me to say that the girl wouldn't be coming to the interview because she couldn't find a parking space near our office!!!

You can't help but laugh but it's driving me insane. We got paid a visit by Immigration and the Labour Dept this morning and now we don't meet the quota for farang/Thai staff, so we need to find someone asap.

I think the only thing left for me to do is find some freelancer web dev/graphic designer/programmer in India or somewhere and then just employ some Thai staff to sit in the office and play facebook all day for 10k per month.

Perhaps I could employ 10 Thai cleaners in order for us to meet the work permit quota -at least I'd have the cleanest offices in Thailand.

Do any other farang business owners just employ people to sit in the office in order to meet the requirements for work permit?

And before anyone asks, I don't want messages from freelance graphic designers/web devs replying to this post.

[bkkjames]

your 3rd to last sentence seems the most practical.

[iancnx]

Ruddy hell, I thought I was hard done by trying to run a bistro with 2 waitresses and a chef, I won't go into it as it was small change comparatively and I was able to bin the whole thing at very little loss. Fundamentally they had no desire to work hard or apply themselves to meet western standards, and couldn't really give a flying t&ss if they had a job or not. We paid the best wages in town, and treated them very well, only to be taken advantage of at every opportunity. Easy for them to stay in bed until late, eat 15 baht noodles and hang out. No concept of loyalty or a need to improve ones life. Serious business owners with BOI capital constraints and WP issues must have a daily nightmare.

[pancakeman]

You probably should just get ghost employees to fill out the quota, then you don't need to think about that aspect when hiring/firing

It will cost you like 1800 per month per employee in taxes (or something like that)

* Regarding the girl and the mother maybe it was just someone else that she called "mother" doesn't mean it was her actual mother that was dead or vice versa.

Edited May 30, 2014 by pancakeman

[star kicker]

this doesn't just apply to foreign business owners. all my thai friends who own businesses complain about the same issues with employing good quality staff. interestingly their most common complaint is petty theft which seems to be rife by employees here.

[TravelerEastWest]

Perhaps we can put a positive note to this thread by all us contributing some small productive action.

For us we test/train for two days and see that they can do the job before offering a position.

Also long interviews.

In the end I think that money is important for skilled positions.

[Gsxrnz]

I've never had to employ staff in Thailand but I've employed hundreds in my career.

The interview consisted of them demonstrating to me what their CV or credentials said they could do. If they claimed to be a spreadsheet hotshot, I'd give them a bundle of data and tell them to build me a spreadsheet and tell me why they were doing it that way.

If they claimed to be able to able to interpret financial data to a certain level, I'd give them a balance sheet or a P&L and ask them for a one page written analysis.

On a practical level, if they claimed to be able to drive a forklift, I'd throw them in one and tell them to unload/load a truck for 15 minutes.

Even down to spelling - I insisted on a hand written letter of application. Plus I always gave them a very simple IQ test with maths/spelling/general knowledge/comprehension tests to varying levels depending on the job requirements.

The wheat soon separate themselves from the chaff and often I'd end up giving the job to the least educated or least qualified, because they were able to demonstrate their potential - I rarely got shat on.

No reason why you can't do these sorts of things with any nationality. It's all down to how well the employer goes about recruitment. If it's done half aresed, you'll get half arsed employees - in Thailand or anywhere.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Gsxrnz

[pancakeman]

No reason why you can't do these sorts of things with any nationality. It's all down to how well the employer goes about recruitment. If it's done half aresed, you'll get half arsed employees - in Thailand or anywhere.

Keep in mind that the unemployment is very low here and finding a job is relatively easy. So this may cut down on the amount of options you have to choose from as compared to the west.

If you only manage to get 2 interviews set up, even after posting the job all over the place then you can't be too picky.

[stickylies]

not thai bashing imo. simple facts.

work ethos is totally different here. i could never work with thai hence i don't work in thailand.

thai are great people to hang out with, have a beer, massage or fried rice but if u're looking for "initiative, think for themselves, work hard and meet deadlines" i suggest u migrate to eg. germany or poland. the latter offers cheap labour and REALLY motivated working folks!

ps. burmese are an alternative too. no kiddin'. hard working, motivated folks keeping thai economy alive.

[pinkpanther99]

this doesn't just apply to foreign business owners. all my thai friends who own businesses complain about the same issues with employing good quality staff. interestingly their most common complaint is petty theft which seems to be rife by employees here.

Yes, you're right. I've spoken to both foreigners and locals who own businesses and they all report the same things.

[pinkpanther99]

not thai bashing imo. simple facts.

work ethos is totally different here. i could never work with thai hence i don't work in thailand.

thai are great people to hang out with, have a beer, massage or fried rice but if u're looking for "initiative, think for themselves, work hard and meet deadlines" i suggest u migrate to eg. germany or poland. the latter offers cheap labour and REALLY motivated working folks!

ps. burmese are an alternative too. no kiddin'. hard working, motivated folks keeping thai economy alive.

Yes, but do Burmese have some of the skills I'm looking for in graphic design and website programming and how does employing a Burmese national impact on my farang/Thai quota for a work permit. If I employ a Burmese worker, doesn't that mean that I just have to employ even more Thai staff.

[ronthai]

"Perhaps I could employ 10 Thai cleaners in order for us to meet the work permit quota -at least I'd have the cleanest offices in Thailand."

Highly unlikely, have you seen how good Thais are in cleaning?

[impulse]

We have dozens of very qualified Thai staff, working very hard for us. Some have been with us for many years.

Our secret? We pay them more. And we treat them like professionals. Maybe that's why the qualified ones aren't applying for the jobs mentioned here. They're still working for companies that know the secret.

Still a tiny fraction of what they'd cost us back home for an equivalent work product.

Edited May 30, 2014 by impulse

[Berkshire]

When you say "offering good salaries," how much are we talking?

Finding reliable, qualified staff is tough anywhere. And if it's in IT, they are in short supply. The best and brightest are in high demand. You ever consider internship from reputable universities? You'd get to see how some of these young people actually work, sort of a long interview process.

[Johnnie99]

I am not one to complain but are you sure you are in the right country, if you want quality staff?

[Berkshire]

We have dozens of very qualified Thai staff, working very hard for us. Some have been with us for many years.

Our secret? We pay them more. And we treat them like professionals. Maybe that's why the qualified ones aren't applying for the jobs mentioned here. They're still working for companies that know the secret.

Still a tiny fraction of what they'd cost us back home for an equivalent work product.

That was my point exactly. If the OP is not paying a competitive salary, he will in fact have a revolving door of employees constantly looking for greener pastures. And these young people all know what the going rate is.

[ezzra]

" it is so difficult to find skilled Thai staff, who are able to use their initiative, think for themselves, work hard and meet deadlines. That's before we even try and get through any communication issues"

I have been in business in this country for around 20 years, and nothing has changed, no matter

how technology advances, the human quality is lagging far behind, you'll be very lucky to find

stuff that can actually think for them selves, apart for who do I get more for doing less and with

no responsibly what so ever....

[thaicookingchef]

What are we going to learn from this thread ? NOTHING !

[ebean001]

I have a different problem but simular. I need to hire bar girls in Chiang Mai. They are not easy to find and very difficult to train. fortunately those we hire have stayed. they are making lots of money and that is the attraction - lots of money.

[stickylies]

not thai bashing imo. simple facts.

work ethos is totally different here. i could never work with thai hence i don't work in thailand.

thai are great people to hang out with, have a beer, massage or fried rice but if u're looking for "initiative, think for themselves, work hard and meet deadlines" i suggest u migrate to eg. germany or poland. the latter offers cheap labour and REALLY motivated working folks!

ps. burmese are an alternative too. no kiddin'. hard working, motivated folks keeping thai economy alive.

Yes, but do Burmese have some of the skills I'm looking for in graphic design and website programming and how does employing a Burmese national impact on my farang/Thai quota for a work permit. If I employ a Burmese worker, doesn't that mean that I just have to employ even more Thai staff.

no idea as i don't work here and never will. thai employ burmese a gogo... all sectors.... my burmese buddy is graphic designer and has worked in CM (for ngo).

[Torrens54]

You have my deepest sympathies!

Some years ago after a very long association with the Thai media and Tourism industries, I was persuaded to come here and run an English Language Newspaper. We had 3 full time reporters, all of whom were very enthusiastic but were not able to speak, let alone read or write English. We had to rely on part-time Ferang to get things done.

Later, my wife opened a restaurant, paid above the award, provided excellent working conditions but found she couldn't trust staff to be on their own, even for a short time, There was no work ethic, they would "tickle the till", show up late, sometimes not show up at all and after sticking out their greedy hands at the end of a month, they'd do a "vanishing act."

The best staff we had were Uni Students during the holidays. They were eager to work, honest and reliable. Trouble was....that was only during the Uni Holidays. We couldn't afford to hire Brian Surgeons to flip hamburgers all year.

Wish you luck!!!

[Card]

"Perhaps I could employ 10 Thai cleaners in order for us to meet the work permit quota -at least I'd have the cleanest offices in Thailand."

Don't bet on it, and don't look under the furniture or on high shelves.

[joshstiles]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I've never had to employ staff in Thailand but I've employed hundreds in my career.

The interview consisted of them demonstrating to me what their CV or credentials said they could do. If they claimed to be a spreadsheet hotshot, I'd give them a bundle of data and tell them to build me a spreadsheet and tell me why they were doing it that way.

If they claimed to be able to able to interpret financial data to a certain level, I'd give them a balance sheet or a P&L and ask them for a one page written analysis.

On a practical level, if they claimed to be able to drive a forklift, I'd throw them in one and tell them to unload/load a truck for 15 minutes.

Even down to spelling - I insisted on a hand written letter of application. Plus I always gave them a very simple IQ test with maths/spelling/general knowledge/comprehension tests to varying levels depending on the job requirements.

The wheat soon separate themselves from the chaff and often I'd end up giving the job to the least educated or least qualified, because they were able to demonstrate their potential - I rarely got shat on.

No reason why you can't do these sorts of things with any nationality. It's all down to how well the employer goes about recruitment. If it's done half aresed, you'll get half arsed employees - in Thailand or anywhere.

Now I know why you don't employ any of them.....none of them could meet your standards.....i also agree with your standards by the way.

[Mudcrab]

When you say "offering good salaries," how much are we talking?

Finding reliable, qualified staff is tough anywhere. And if it's in IT, they are in short supply. The best and brightest are in high demand. You ever consider internship from reputable universities? You'd get to see how some of these young people actually work, sort of a long interview process.

A very relevant point re salaries.

We often see members on here quoting the 300 baht per day wage who seem to forget this is the minimum wage and is usually applied to work of the most basic level.

We also see the teachers wage of 30,000 baht per month as some sort of benchmark when it most certainly is not.

A relative is employed as an engineer near Rayong - earns 200,000 baht a month. Quite a respectable amount in any country for onshore based employment

[kinmaew]

I would not have the patience for this. I am 100% sure all Thais are born and then told "Dont worry, get a job with a farang, he has to employ you and you dont even need to work that much, just turn up when you can, he has no choice because he is prohibited from hiring real staff who have a &lt;deleted&gt;***** clue". I dont know how you can stand this. But sadly it sounds like the cleaner option is your best choice if you insist on doing business in Thailand. Doesnt say much about their attitude to work does it, but probably explains a whole lot more like all the open drains etc etc etc...

[joshstiles]

I feel your pain.....we have the same problem at our school....employing thai teachers. What a joke. Like you....we have a revolving door as well. Can't seem to keep any of them around....we pay better wages than they pay at other schools.....they have total control of their lessons plans, we provide lunch, parties....but still.....the door just turns and turns. What can you do? Wish I had an answer for you....perhaps in another 100 years the 'population' will grow up / mature....stop acting like spoiled children....turn and run at the first sign of difficulty....who knows....3rd world mentality....what a hoot.

[Eric Loh]

I find employing certain age group and married people to be more reliable. Employing young people especially in the low twenties are the most difficult to retain and manage. Married personnel seem to be less problematic and if given the right package and allowing some flexibility to deal with their family issues can turn out to be good employees.I also find that employing staff that stay in close proximity to the office tend to be stayer. I have staffs that worked in my chemical company since I started 7 years ago.

Recently I started a restuarant and was a nightmare in terms of staffs. Staff leaving with no notice or not turning up for work etc. I gave up on Thai staff and since employed Myanmar and have been a good 2 months so far. This level of staff like waiter or cashier has lots of mobilty and tons of jobs waiting for them and hard to retain. I have an employment agency that provide staff on 24 hours notice; just in case.

[MobileContent]

I worked most of my last 24 years in Thailand for medium to large companies.

Good staffs in IT/web development are in short supply. This also includes graphic designer that are perfect and have the creativity to work in Photoshop, Adobe Premier and After Affects.

For IT junior position we pay between 25-35,000 Baht per month

IT Manager 60-85,000 Baht per month

Web Developer XML/Json/PHP and SQL 35-45,000 Baht per month

Mobile Application developer 30-55,000 Baht

I keep a very close relationship to my staffs in the IT and E-Commerce Department and report directly to the CEO and often advise them when their are rumours that one wants to leave for another company to match that offer even if it is an increase of 10-25%.

When I started at the company we had many staffs that were not very productive so I advised the management to fire them and get the bad apples out.

So far it has been three years and not one staff left us and our e-commerce department does very well.

BTW: Our company too is a farang owned company but all junior management is Thai. We farangs seldom interrupt in the management of the staffs and prefer to let the Thais deal with themselves and it works well.

Edited May 30, 2014 by MobileContent

[razer]

Contact an international university. Students have to do an internship to graduate. You can employ them as an intern. it is a good way to find talent with a work ethic at low cost. If they are good keep them after graduation and if not good tell their academic supervisor and request another intern.

[MobileContent]

As an addition my favourite Thai restaurant in Bangkok is unable to retain many staffs as well so I assisted them two months ago in finding good staffs from villages around Sakon Nakhon. Those girls feel happy to see Bangkok and after two month they are still their.

BTW: 15000 Baht a month they get. Yes the money is high and they send a couple of thousands back to the parents and now I get served at my favourite restaurant in Bangkok by staffs from my village.