Warning of highly addictive 'yaba'

[ATF]

It's amazing isn't it, that in this day and age we are still subjected to this scare-mongering zero-tolerance propaganda that has little or no scientific basis. It's just embarrassing as it shows that Thailand's authorities are still decades behind in their thinking.

If a drug was invented that was completely benign gave massive feelings of euphoria allowed you to work and drive a car. It would still be banned, because you are not allowed release from the real World. That's the real Law.

[JeremyBowskill]

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic, I wouldn't take 2 of these (or any yaba pill) for a million dollars a pill. I would rather trap my nuts in a revolving door!

[partington]

It's amazing isn't it, that in this day and age we are still subjected to this scare-mongering zero-tolerance propaganda that has little or no scientific basis. It's just embarrassing as it shows that Thailand's authorities are still decades behind in their thinking.

If a drug was invented that was completely benign gave massive feelings of euphoria allowed you to work and drive a car. It would still be banned, because you are not allowed release from the real World. That's the real Law.

I believe what you are saying is true. I have actually heard UK politicians saying in interviews "the problem now is that new drugs are being invented faster than we can ban them!"

That is, admitting that since these drugs cannot in any way have been tested or assessed for harmful effects, the reason for banning them is not directly related to any harmful effects they have, but mainly based on the principle that recreational drugs shouldn't be allowed.

It's very noticeable that expert scientific advisors to the government in the UK and the US get fired if they give an evidence-based opinion that any recreational drug is relatively safe.

Granted, taking a drug is much more likely to be harmful than not harmful, so extreme caution is the most sensible approach.

However criminalisation of drug use seems insane to me, and dishonest scaremongering annoys me, as does any bending of the truth for a social purpose, because it brings science, and therefore people's belief in the scientific method, into disrepute.

Edited June 2, 2014 by partington

[Ulysses G.]

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic

Speed appeals to people all over the globe. Being happy and alert and feeling euphoric is a powerful draw. It is usually after one takes it for a long period of time that they start feeling the nasty side effects and by then it is hard to feel happy without it.

[JeremyBowskill]

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic

Speed appeals to people all over the globe. Being happy and alert and feeling euphoric is a powerful draw. It is usually after one takes it for a long period of time that they start feeling the nasty side effects and by then it is hard to feel happy without it.

Yeah, it was more what makes it the drug of choice for Asians that interests me. It seems different races seem to go for different types of highs, and I wonder what makes that so. For example where I am from (the UK) this type of drug has never taken off, and its more xtc, coke and heroin. Any thoughts on why? My original thinking when first coming across this kind of stuff in Japan, was it suits their temperament as they work long hours and are fairly high paced people. However, the same can't exactly be said for Thais, Burmese or Cambodians can it.

[ATF]

Yeah, it was more what makes it the drug of choice for Asians that interests me. It seems different races seem to go for different types of highs, and I wonder what makes that so. For example where I am from (the UK) this type of drug has never taken off, and its more xtc, coke and heroin. Any thoughts on why? My original thinking when first coming across this kind of stuff in Japan, was it suits their temperament as they work long hours and are fairly high paced people. However, the same can't exactly be said for Thais, Burmese or Cambodians can it.

It's a low-class drug. Very popular in the States. Poor Man's cocaine. High Class Thais take cocaine and ecstasy. Asian's don't generally smoke grass because it smells and the neighbors will know you're a pothead.

[Thorgal]

Illegal drug dealers have always cut drugs with less expensive ingredients. That is why speed pills or powder are oiften mixed with different grades of amphetamine and caffeine. Amphetamine - unlike opiates - is not physically addicting, so there is no way that cutting methamphetinine with dimethylamphetamine is going to be more "addictive" unless it produces a better high. It won't because it is much weaker.

There is nothing magical about mixing methamphetinine with dimethylamphetamine. It is a cost cutting measure. No matter how much you repeat it, your argument is ridiculous.

Dimethylamphetamine is a schedule 1 drug as methamphetinine.

Perhaps one is higher in purity than the other one, buth both have similar side effects, read addiction.

Now you've got it. No one said that Dimethylamphetamine is not speed, only that methamphetinine is stronger and therefore more addicting. There is no way that adding Dimethylamphetamine would make it more addicting - if anything, it it would make it less addicting - which completely contradicts the article that is the OP.

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetinine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

[Ulysses G.]

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic

Speed appeals to people all over the globe. Being happy and alert and feeling euphoric is a powerful draw. It is usually after one takes it for a long period of time that they start feeling the nasty side effects and by then it is hard to feel happy without it.

Yeah, it was more what makes it the drug of choice for Asians that interests me. It seems different races seem to go for different types of highs, and I wonder what makes that so. For example where I am from (the UK) this type of drug has never taken off, and its more xtc, coke and heroin. Any thoughts on why? My original thinking when first coming across this kind of stuff in Japan, was it suits their temperament as they work long hours and are fairly high paced people. However, the same can't exactly be said for Thais, Burmese or Cambodians can it.

It used to be heroin, now it is speed, but ecstasy and cocaine are popular with those that have the money.My guess is that it has to do with price and availability. Also, it is a lot easier to carry on a normal life in the initial stages. Heroin makes people nod out when they are supposed to be working.

[Ulysses G.]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

Do you have some evidence to prove that claim? I can't find any and - if it were true - one would think that drug dealers would be producing

Dimethylamphetamine instead of meth. I can't find anything other than the OP that says that they are.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[JeremyBowskill]

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic

Speed appeals to people all over the globe. Being happy and alert and feeling euphoric is a powerful draw. It is usually after one takes it for a long period of time that they start feeling the nasty side effects and by then it is hard to feel happy without it.

Yeah, it was more what makes it the drug of choice for Asians that interests me. It seems different races seem to go for different types of highs, and I wonder what makes that so. For example where I am from (the UK) this type of drug has never taken off, and its more xtc, coke and heroin. Any thoughts on why? My original thinking when first coming across this kind of stuff in Japan, was it suits their temperament as they work long hours and are fairly high paced people. However, the same can't exactly be said for Thais, Burmese or Cambodians can it.

It used to be heroin, now it is speed, but ecstasy and cocaine are popular with those that have the money.My guess is that it has to do with price and availability. Also, it is a lot easier to carry on a normal life in the initial stages. Heroin makes people nod out when they are supposed to be working.

Yup, makes a lot of sense from Thailands point of view but not so much from Japan and Korea's where they wouldn't touch anything else but ice with a barge pole. I do think it is more to do with their genetic make up somehow.

[ATF]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

I think the only thing you can get immediately addicted to is pussy!

[Ulysses G.]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

I think the only thing you can get immediately addicted to is pussy!

I concur!

[JeremyBowskill]

Illegal drug dealers have always cut drugs with less expensive ingredients. That is why speed pills or powder are oiften mixed with different grades of amphetamine and caffeine. Amphetamine - unlike opiates - is not physically addicting, so there is no way that cutting methamphetinine with dimethylamphetamine is going to be more "addictive" unless it produces a better high. It won't because it is much weaker.

There is nothing magical about mixing methamphetinine with dimethylamphetamine. It is a cost cutting measure. No matter how much you repeat it, your argument is ridiculous.

Dimethylamphetamine is a schedule 1 drug as methamphetinine.

Perhaps one is higher in purity than the other one, buth both have similar side effects, read addiction.

Now you've got it. No one said that Dimethylamphetamine is not speed, only that methamphetinine is stronger and therefore more addicting. There is no way that adding Dimethylamphetamine would make it more addicting - if anything, it it would make it less addicting - which completely contradicts the article that is the OP.

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetinine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

If it were Serotonin levels that made you an addict then ecstasy users would be hooked off of 1 tablet!

[boomerangutang]

I would hang up all the drug dealers as well as I can without any deeper thoughts. Just do it.

Who are you gonna assign to go up to the HQ of Seagrams, Johnny Walker, Chivas, and Pfitzer, knock on their thick oak doors, and haul 'em off to be hung? Then you gotta go round up all the corner store drug dealers and their spouses. You would have fit in great when Thaksin was compelling his underlings to capture and kill supposed drug dealers in Thailand. Extrajudicial murders? Mai pen f'ckin' rai.

I do find it intriguing what makes ice/yaba appealing to asians specifically. Personally I can't think of anything worse than not sleeping and feeling psychotic, I wouldn't take 2 of these (or any yaba pill) for a million dollars a pill. I would rather trap my nuts in a revolving door!

You're assessing each drug from how DEA, Thai law-enforcement and liquor corporations want you to see it. It's like judging whether you like non-conformist sex, by lapping up what some Muslim clerics pontificate about it.

[Thorgal]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

Do you have some evidence to prove that claim? I can't find any and - if it were true - one would think that drug dealers would be producing

Dimethylamphetamine instead of meth. I can't find anything other than the OP that says that they are.

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

The so called contaminated dimethylamphetaminine (3 to 4% of amphetamine) brings the user to a higher euphoric (etc.) level. Almost with the same effects of MDMA (so called pure chemical drugs).

The high level of purity of methamphetimine (70% of amphetamine) is just the time agent. And is not really the leading euphoric agent of this yaba-cocktail.

Higher core amphetamine purity levels doesn't mean higher euphoric (etc.) levels.

For me the Thai article is correct.

Where are the wiki/google addicts now ?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Thorgal

[boomerangutang]

recreational drug taking is as much a part of human culture as sex - and has been for at least 150,000 years. If you look at any primitive or earlier humans, you will see drug taking was integral to their culture, from mid-teens on up.

Drug taking is still integral for humans, though currently, alcoholic drinks dominate.

I went through drug taking from age 17 thru 21 (with alcohol and ciggs from age 11). I tried everything during those years, so I have a better handle on comparative analysis of recreational drugs - than any politician, judge or law enforcement official - who base their edicts on hearsay, hysteria, and agenda-driven reports.

[cornishcarlos]

Well it's been a few hours now and I stopped after 2....

Bang goes that theory

[Thorgal]

Well it's been a few hours now and I stopped after 2....

Bang goes that theory

Great ! Take another 2...

Edited June 2, 2014 by Thorgal

[Ulysses G.]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

Do you have some evidence to prove that claim? I can't find any and - if it were true - one would think that drug dealers would be producing

Dimethylamphetamine instead of meth. I can't find anything other than the OP that says that they are.

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

So we are supposed to take your word for it, even though it makes no sense? I will go with the experts:

Dimethylamphetamine has a weaker stimulant effects than amphetamine or methamphetamine and is considerably less addictive[1] and less neurotoxic compared to methamphetamine.[2][3] However, it still retains some mild stimulant effects and abuse potential,[4] and is a Schedule I controlled drug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine

[Seastallion]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

Do you have some evidence to prove that claim? I can't find any and - if it were true - one would think that drug dealers would be producing

Dimethylamphetamine instead of meth. I can't find anything other than the OP that says that they are.

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

So we are supposed to take your word for it, even though it makes no sense? I will go with the experts:

Dimethylamphetamine has a weaker stimulant effects than amphetamine or methamphetamine and is considerably less addictive[1] and less neurotoxic compared to methamphetamine.[2][3] However, it still retains some mild stimulant effects and abuse potential,[4] and is a Schedule I controlled drug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine

I go along with the experts too and with what you've quoted, but no expert has yet (except an expert the OP quotes quotes). Nobody has yet been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination is a simple combo that does not change the individual effects.

As Thorgal said, you struggle with chemistry. Stick to books.

[Ulysses G.]

Nobody has yet been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination is a simple combo that does not change the individual effects.

Despite your wishful thinking. nobody has been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination DOES change the individual effects either, so we will have to rely on common sense. Adding a weaker kind of amphetamine to a stronger one would make the stronger one weaker.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[rabas]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

Do you have some evidence to prove that claim? I can't find any and - if it were true - one would think that drug dealers would be producing

Dimethylamphetamine instead of meth. I can't find anything other than the OP that says that they are.

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

The so called contaminated dimethylamphetaminine (3 to 4% of amphetamine) brings the user to a higher euphoric (etc.) level. Almost with the same effects of MDMA (so called pure chemical drugs).

The high level of purity of methamphetimine (70% of amphetamine) is just the time agent. And is not really the leading euphoric agent of this yaba-cocktail.

Higher core amphetamine purity levels doesn't mean higher euphoric (etc.) levels.

For me the Thai article is correct.

Where are the wiki/google addicts now ?

What I see is a few studies that say MA and DMA are quite different because the dimethylamphetamine analog does not cause serious or lasting damage the serotonergic neurons, but that MA does, quite a bit. One of these studies compared the two compounds at equivalent behavioral dosages and found the same conclusion. So, maybe the DMA derivative allows higher levels of serotonin, especially in the presence of other drugs. There is also no mention of how much of the drugs are in the new yaba pills. I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine (N,N-DMA), a controlled substance analog that has recently appeared on the illicit drug market, and compare it to that of methamphetamine, a structurally related drug with known dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxic activity. Like methamphetamine, N,N-DMA induced degeneration of nerve terminals in the mouse striatum, but did not produce cell loss in the pars compacta of the substantia nigra. The dopamine-depleting effects of N,N-DMA were approximately one-eighth of those of methamphetamine. Assessment of N,N-DMA's effects on serotonergic neurons showed that it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain. By contrast, equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%. These results indicate that N,N-DMA, the N-methylated analog of methamphetamine, is considerably less potent than its parent compound both as a dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxin, and raise the question of whether or not it may be possible to dissociate the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine from its reinforcing actions by means of N-methylation. Safety of N,N-DMA in humans remains to be investigated.

Edit, Thorgal, just saw your next post. You are saying these are a mix of 4-MA and DMA ? That would make sense.

Edited June 2, 2014 by rabas

[Thorgal]

Nobody has yet been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination is a simple combo that does not change the individual effects.

Despite your wishful thinking. nobody has been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination DOES change the individual effects either, so we will have to rely on common sense. Adding a weaker kind of amphetamine to a stronger one would make the stronger one weaker.

Dimethylamphetamine is a group.

See link of Jeremy again : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine

If you check the 'chapter/folder' stimulants you will find a large variety of core agents.

You wil find the following agent : 4MA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Methylamphetamine

That's the one that the Thai Authorities are mentioning in the news article.

In drug environments it's known as a verry dangerous substance.

Also used in Europe and badly renomated for "no way back"...

You can find more unfortunately detailed feedback of 4-MA from end-users on drug forums all around.

I will not post a link.

Again, it's pure biochimistry and thumbs up for the Thai Authorities.

The starting wiki-post from Jeremy was misleading. Still opinions vary don't they.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Thorgal

[ATF]

Trimethoxyamphetamine looks a lot more interesting.

[hyperdimension]

Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine.

That's why it's more dangerous to take it and first users can be immediately addicted.

Dimethylamphetamine is not just a cheap derivate. It's in fact the controlling agent.

Do you have some evidence to prove that claim? I can't find any and - if it were true - one would think that drug dealers would be producing

Dimethylamphetamine instead of meth. I can't find anything other than the OP that says that they are.

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

The so called contaminated dimethylamphetaminine (3 to 4% of amphetamine) brings the user to a higher euphoric (etc.) level. Almost with the same effects of MDMA (so called pure chemical drugs).

The high level of purity of methamphetimine (70% of amphetamine) is just the time agent. And is not really the leading euphoric agent of this yaba-cocktail.

Higher core amphetamine purity levels doesn't mean higher euphoric (etc.) levels.

For me the Thai article is correct.

Where are the wiki/google addicts now ?

What I see is a few studies that say MA and DMA are quite different because the dimethylamphetamine analog does not cause serious or lasting damage the serotonergic neurons, but that MA does, quite a bit. One of these studies compared the two compounds at equivalent behavioral dosages and found the same conclusion. So, maybe the DMA derivative allows higher levels of serotonin, especially in the presence of other drugs. There is also no mention of how much of the drugs are in the new yaba pills. I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine (N,N-DMA), a controlled substance analog that has recently appeared on the illicit drug market, and compare it to that of methamphetamine, a structurally related drug with known dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxic activity. Like methamphetamine, N,N-DMA induced degeneration of nerve terminals in the mouse striatum, but did not produce cell loss in the pars compacta of the substantia nigra. The dopamine-depleting effects of N,N-DMA were approximately one-eighth of those of methamphetamine. Assessment of N,N-DMA's effects on serotonergic neurons showed that it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain. By contrast, equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%. These results indicate that N,N-DMA, the N-methylated analog of methamphetamine, is considerably less potent than its parent compound both as a dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxin, and raise the question of whether or not it may be possible to dissociate the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine from its reinforcing actions by means of N-methylation. Safety of N,N-DMA in humans remains to be investigated.

I saw that too, here's the link: Evaluation of the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine: an illicit analog of methamphetamine. Notice the parts "it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain" and "equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%". Depletion is the result of release of serotonin which is what causes euphoria. So based on this research, methamphetamine releases far more serotonin than dimethylamphetamine, which completely contradicts Thorgal's statement "Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine."

[hyperdimension]

Nobody has yet been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination is a simple combo that does not change the individual effects.

Despite your wishful thinking. nobody has been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination DOES change the individual effects either, so we will have to rely on common sense. Adding a weaker kind of amphetamine to a stronger one would make the stronger one weaker.

Dimethylamphetamine is a group.

See link of Jeremy again : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine

If you check the 'chapter/folder' stimulants you will find a large variety of core agents.

You wil find the following agent : 4MA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Methylamphetamine

4-MA:

and

N,N-DMA:

are different chemical compounds.

Edited June 2, 2014 by hyperdimension

[rabas]

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

The so called contaminated dimethylamphetaminine (3 to 4% of amphetamine) brings the user to a higher euphoric (etc.) level. Almost with the same effects of MDMA (so called pure chemical drugs).

The high level of purity of methamphetimine (70% of amphetamine) is just the time agent. And is not really the leading euphoric agent of this yaba-cocktail.

Higher core amphetamine purity levels doesn't mean higher euphoric (etc.) levels.

For me the Thai article is correct.

Where are the wiki/google addicts now ?

What I see is a few studies that say MA and DMA are quite different because the dimethylamphetamine analog does not cause serious or lasting damage the serotonergic neurons, but that MA does, quite a bit. One of these studies compared the two compounds at equivalent behavioral dosages and found the same conclusion. So, maybe the DMA derivative allows higher levels of serotonin, especially in the presence of other drugs. There is also no mention of how much of the drugs are in the new yaba pills. I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine (N,N-DMA), a controlled substance analog that has recently appeared on the illicit drug market, and compare it to that of methamphetamine, a structurally related drug with known dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxic activity. Like methamphetamine, N,N-DMA induced degeneration of nerve terminals in the mouse striatum, but did not produce cell loss in the pars compacta of the substantia nigra. The dopamine-depleting effects of N,N-DMA were approximately one-eighth of those of methamphetamine. Assessment of N,N-DMA's effects on serotonergic neurons showed that it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain. By contrast, equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%. These results indicate that N,N-DMA, the N-methylated analog of methamphetamine, is considerably less potent than its parent compound both as a dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxin, and raise the question of whether or not it may be possible to dissociate the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine from its reinforcing actions by means of N-methylation. Safety of N,N-DMA in humans remains to be investigated.

I saw that too, here's the link: Evaluation of the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine: an illicit analog of methamphetamine. Notice the parts "it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain" and "equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%". Depletion is the result of release of serotonin which is what causes euphoria. So based on this research, methamphetamine releases far more serotonin than dimethylamphetamine, which completely contradicts Thorgal's statement "Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine."

Yes, so combine the DMA with the 4-MA that Thorgal is talking about and you may have a very potent mix. Maybe the DMA is really used to get an optimum effect mix for desired market conditions. They do need lasting customers.

[boomerangutang]

Most of the recent posts on this thread are getting quite technical. That's ok, but it's rather moot when compared to the veracity of the OP - part of which is quoted below....

BANGKOK: -- The Office of the Narcotics Control Board (ONCB) yesterday warned people of a new type of 'yaba' is laced with dimethyl-amphetamine - which could get a person addicted to it after taking only two pills.

ONCB secretary-general Pol General Pongsapat Pongcharoen said the new formula was so strong that a drug abuser could be extremely agitated and hallucinate. If the drug was injected, a person could fatally overdose, he said.

Thai 'experts' aren't necessarily apprised of the topics they dissertate about. A few years ago, a government Minister (of science?) proclaimed boats revving their propellors in the Chao Praya river, would hasten the water exiting out to the bay. Another (or was it the same?) sage Minister claimed rising seas worldwide would not necessarily affect the water level at Thailand's seas.

ThaiVisa chemists may choose to delve on scientific details, but Thai Ministers aren't beholden to scientific processes. For them, it's more a 'father knows best' sort of thing.

[Thorgal]

Nobody has yet been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination is a simple combo that does not change the individual effects.

Despite your wishful thinking. nobody has been able to definitely state, with authority, that the combination DOES change the individual effects either, so we will have to rely on common sense. Adding a weaker kind of amphetamine to a stronger one would make the stronger one weaker.

Dimethylamphetamine is a group.

See link of Jeremy again : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylamphetamine

If you check the 'chapter/folder' stimulants you will find a large variety of core agents.

You wil find the following agent : 4MA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-Methylamphetamine

4-MA:

and

N,N-DMA:

are different chemical compounds.

Both have the same molecular elements (C+H+N) and same nitrogen structure.

Differentiation is only existing in carbon an hydrogen elements.

So both have different atomic numbers, read relative additives, but they are the same product.

They will taste, smell and look different but they are made from the same core substances.

Does the placebo effect works fine for you ?

Edited June 2, 2014 by Thorgal

[hyperdimension]

You can't find it because you're struggling in chemistry. Just google into biochemistry under serotonin. Just give it a whirl.

The so called contaminated dimethylamphetaminine (3 to 4% of amphetamine) brings the user to a higher euphoric (etc.) level. Almost with the same effects of MDMA (so called pure chemical drugs).

The high level of purity of methamphetimine (70% of amphetamine) is just the time agent. And is not really the leading euphoric agent of this yaba-cocktail.

Higher core amphetamine purity levels doesn't mean higher euphoric (etc.) levels.

For me the Thai article is correct.

Where are the wiki/google addicts now ?

What I see is a few studies that say MA and DMA are quite different because the dimethylamphetamine analog does not cause serious or lasting damage the serotonergic neurons, but that MA does, quite a bit. One of these studies compared the two compounds at equivalent behavioral dosages and found the same conclusion. So, maybe the DMA derivative allows higher levels of serotonin, especially in the presence of other drugs. There is also no mention of how much of the drugs are in the new yaba pills. I thought I saw a report a short time ago about more powerful yaba tablets coming into Thailand, maybe the same. Combined with pussy, it just might be instantly addictive.

Abstract

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine (N,N-DMA), a controlled substance analog that has recently appeared on the illicit drug market, and compare it to that of methamphetamine, a structurally related drug with known dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxic activity. Like methamphetamine, N,N-DMA induced degeneration of nerve terminals in the mouse striatum, but did not produce cell loss in the pars compacta of the substantia nigra. The dopamine-depleting effects of N,N-DMA were approximately one-eighth of those of methamphetamine. Assessment of N,N-DMA's effects on serotonergic neurons showed that it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain. By contrast, equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%. These results indicate that N,N-DMA, the N-methylated analog of methamphetamine, is considerably less potent than its parent compound both as a dopaminergic and serotonergic neurotoxin, and raise the question of whether or not it may be possible to dissociate the neurotoxic effects of methamphetamine from its reinforcing actions by means of N-methylation. Safety of N,N-DMA in humans remains to be investigated.

I saw that too, here's the link: Evaluation of the neurotoxic potential of N,N-dimethylamphetamine: an illicit analog of methamphetamine. Notice the parts "it did not produce a long-lasting depletion of serotonin in either the mouse or rat brain" and "equivalent doses of methamphetamine depleted serotonin in the rat brain by 82%". Depletion is the result of release of serotonin which is what causes euphoria. So based on this research, methamphetamine releases far more serotonin than dimethylamphetamine, which completely contradicts Thorgal's statement "Serotonin peak levels are higher with dimethylamphetamine than methamphetimine."

Yes, so combine the DMA with the 4-MA that Thorgal is talking about and you may have a very potent mix. Maybe the DMA is really used to get an optimum effect mix for desired market conditions. They do need lasting customers.

Why is anyone even talking about 4-MA? It was never mentioned in the original news article and is a different chemical compound to dimethylamphetamine, therefore has different effects and safety level. It was wrong for Thorgal to even bring 4-MA into the conversation.